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View Full Version : Can i have a second opinion from you about this?



TheLastPandaa
05-19-2017, 01:08 AM
I think the reasons why many criticize the new heroes have been set clear. We may or may not share them, but at this point we all know them.

However, in this post I would like to involve all those who are on the other side of the coin:
I would like those who have already played with the new heroes to give their opinion about them.

* What are their strengths?
* What are their weaknesses?
* Why do you like to play with them?
* Will you replace your main with any of them?
* What old hero gives you more trouble when you face him?
* Why?

In short, everything we will not know until we try the new heroes.

Maybe this way, we can all reach a better understanding of the situation in which the game is and, hopefully, slow down this wave of hatred towards the second season.

UbiNoty
05-19-2017, 01:18 AM
If we can get this thread going with a constructive, positive discussion - it'd be something I'd love to forward directly to the team to see.

Sir_rage_quit
05-19-2017, 01:25 AM
i played Centurion in 4v4 mostly and got to rep 3 with it

1- their Cc( if i hit 1 heavy charge or kick it game over since most of the time we fight in a group )
2-long range and parry timing ( when i fight someone that know the perfect timing for all my att and are perfect at dodging im **** ) So the cc dodge+punish
3-because it new knight with a sword ( that it to be honest )
4-i main conq .... if i have to change i will go WL
5- Nobushi ( i fought alots of good one ,that parry and dodge all my att even when outnumbered ) im not sure if its a classe or good player case

in 4v4 just stay with someone and it gameover for the other people, one kick or heavy and it done the CC is real (centurion is the master of gank )

Did not play Shinobi but those i faced go from easy to hit and kill to imposible to hit and kill alone

so far i hate this dlc in 4v4
1v1 its totally find

Witch make me wonder if Ubi want to go in the 1v1 direction instead of 4v4

Lyskir
05-19-2017, 01:29 AM
Ok then:

* their strength is cc and speed+mixups+good openers
* their weakness is CC dodge + punish and low health pool
*i like to play with centurion because ...uhm..he looks nice but i dont like his playstyle that much ( i dont play shinobi, he is too animu for me)
* NO, Raider for life
*dont have trouble against old hearoes with cent at least
* -


off topic i want more mail armor for vikings btw...pls^^

CandleInTheDark
05-19-2017, 01:36 AM
I love this idea. Ok, I have been playing shinobi, level 12 now I think.

* What are their strengths? Pretty much what it says on the character select, he is very mobile, I mostly play dominion, if I don't like a matchup, I can leave, and this is necessary with the small health pool. With the stealth feat, you turn into a sniper from the shadows and I have topped kill charts with charged heavy. In duel, the fact that he is a turtle breaker, if you are passive, then you are taking a kick and a heavy, on the one hand I think people should be reacting to the first dodge before the kick or attack off the second, but I do agree kick to heavy can be a little much. If you control the range you are difficult to deal with.

* What are their weaknesses? Health pool, honestly, if you corner me, I am dead, I have never won a 1v2 and I have 1v3'd with the peacekeeper. Mind you I also like this as it means I am having to pick my battles, it is the glaring weakness though. Some might say the defence decay but I don't notice that as much, I dodge, and I am used to parry timing with deflect on the peacekeeper, but it could be considered a weakness, corner them and unless they deflect they are in trouble partially because of that.

* Why do you like to play with them? Honestly? I like that he is dangerous, to the opponent (he can do a lot of damage quite quickly) but also there is a lot of danger to himself, a heavy into a fire puts him at critical, a nailbomb will kill him, a punish for a mistake really will punish him, and I am not talking about this as a weakness, I feel that I am making better decisions because I can't afford to make bad ones.

* Will you replace your main with any of them? I don't think so, I am pretty sold on my peacekeeper.

* What old hero gives you more trouble when you face him? In duel I got 3-0'd by a rookie (less than rep 1) kensei, in dominion I have nightmares about berserkers hitting me from behind.

* Why? Kensei might be part psychological? He is my worst matchup in the game with my peacekeeper, I could not get near him, the range of his attack chain meant charging a heavy was dangerous, I seemed to have no answers to him, I could have deflected but the kensei mains with their feint-fu would destroy that as well. Berserker, I think his top heavy actually one shots me, he might have had attack gear but in one of my first dominions I got killed over and over and over again by that zerker. I can range them in duel, if they get behind me in dominion it is respawn screen.

Wolf-Heathen
05-19-2017, 02:36 AM
Why should we do Ubisoft's job for them? They didn't test these heros, either because they were too lazy, or the were more focused on making them cool so people would buy season passes and log in more.

The "wave of hatred" is from lazy design and an inability or unwillingness to properly balance this game. It started with PKs, which "according to their data were fine, and not OP", and then it was the turtle meta, and increasing number of unblockable/stamina draining/knockdown moves. Now we have new characters spamming all that crap that the community hated. Again, classic Ubisoft, trying to add in more features before they fix the glaring, old ones.

Brunn_MgAmadd
05-19-2017, 02:38 AM
yay
you dont have gold? **** u
U have gold, then by all means lets send your opinions to the devs.
forget about having the new heroes tested by the general population, they are poor or cheap, **** them

Sir_rage_quit
05-19-2017, 02:53 AM
Why should we do Ubisoft's job for them? They didn't test these heros, either because they were too lazy, or the were more focused on making them cool so people would buy season passes and log in more.

The "wave of hatred" is from lazy design and an inability or unwillingness to properly balance this game. It started with PKs, which "according to their data were fine, and not OP", and then it was the turtle meta, and increasing number of unblockable/stamina draining/knockdown moves. Now we have new characters spamming all that crap that the community hated. Again, classic Ubisoft, trying to add in more features before they fix the glaring, old ones.

i agree with that the 2 new classe are what the community hated the most. Somehow they were thinking it was gonna be fine.... im not saying it not impossible to punish or win vs them just that it all that player base hated

Father_Giliam
05-19-2017, 03:20 AM
For the Centurion:

Strengths: Agressive, disables, and stuns. Good at controlling an enemies stamina, shines when "ganking."

Weakness: Low relative health pool, charged heavies and kicks are very easy to read, dodge, and punish. Short range, an opponent that can keep you at a distance will have their way with you.

Why I like to play him: Enjoy the aesthetic and the more agressive playstyle.

Will I replace my main (Lawbringer) with him: Probably not. While I enjoy playing him I am more comfortable with the Lawbringer. Also, must mention I love the aesthetic of him, more so than the Centurion.

What old hero gives you more trouble when you face him/Why: Not sure I understand the question. Is it asking what older heroes do I have trouble facing while playing him or the other way around?

For older heroes (ignoring the problem with light spam from several characters due to console limitations), Peacekeeper and Berserker can be an issue, they can easily punish with dodges. Nobushis can be good at keeping the Centurion at a distance.

Overall the Centurion is a strong character, fairly well balanced, although, his light attacks are fast enough to cause issues on consoles (as fast as Peacekeeper). Possibly look into his stamina consumption. Also, look into the "wall splat" combo. If it truly is a gaurenteed death if he manages to start it, something will likely need done about it. While I haven't had someone to test it out, since the charged heavy cant be queued after the jab, there may be a window to escape or block. Will try tomorrow.

Edit: Forgot to mention, people mentioned his guard switch times may be longer than some. If true, would be nice to see him get the uniform guard switch times the devs talked about.

Jasado
05-19-2017, 03:30 AM
Reputation 2 and level 16 on Shinobi currently.

Kick isn't even that op. It's a good tool and it should win out in most situations because if a move actually punishes it, Shinobi will die.

Smart players have traded a heavy (usually half or 35%+ of my hp) for the kick, so even though my followup is somewhat guaranteed, I am then hesitant to continue pressure, because if I mess up, I'm dead. So it's a neutral backflip reset after the hit, but they came out on top. Orochi and Warden could probably just zone attack when they see the smoke and trade that way.

Every kick has the smoke cloud, so if the most obvious tell in the world isn't enough for you to guess what's coming, then I don't know what to tell you.

Everything with Shinobi has a lot of risk because your "Fancy" moves getting countered puts you on your *** and you get turned into ketchup with top heavies, and if you get read-parried or even soft blocked, it removes your backflip cancel.

The double dodge to cancel into kick in close range is grab-able like any other roll type.

Kick is able to be dodged and you get a guaranteed grab. A grab is a free heavy and a heavy is easily half my life. It's not easy timing to react to, even with the tell, but in time, people will.

Also, people always fail to realize this - Dodge+Dodge+Kick+Followup is 4 separate instances of Stamina costs. It's very stamina intensive to keep this up, all for a guaranteed light/light or ranged heavy (no execute) attack. Not safe to spam, and if you read it once, you can usually stamina break Shinobi, which means no double dodge or fancy business.

Yes, martial arts are op versus revenge mode, but Centurion is far more abusive in that sense. Shinobi actually deserves it, because you absolutely cannot handle someone super armoring through your attacks, so you NEED a tool to keep a revenge mode user at bay, or you would just crumple every time.

Shinobi is powerful with allies in a ganking situation, but he is awful when he is on the receiving end. EZ kill.

I guarantee you if people paid more attention to their side indicators and parried him off screen (it's easier to parry a move that can only come from 1 zone based on having a different target) - he could be getting hurt a lot worse for his transgressions. That being said, he's very good at helping allies from a safe distance, which I think people naturally hate, but hey - it's a ninja. That's the point. It has 90 hp and a very clear list of counters and methods to cope. Give the class some credit.

People complain about the light - it does less damage than peacekeeper, and it's as fast as it is because Shinobi is actually in the most danger at point blank. It's the only tool to interrupt someone and flip away, so it needs to be reliable. If people would dodge back after the first one, they wouldn't get spammed. In fact, if the shinobi is spamming it for the double hit confirm, you can swap your guard to where you saw it as you backstep the first one, because the second one is slower outside of combo.

Again, if you soft block it, he can't backflip cancel and has to respect your reaction. If he tries to dodge away you can just grab him for a free heavy, which again, is half his hp.

If you parry it, that's a free top heavy and like 70% of his hp, lol.

People who die to light attack spam are people who insist on trying to beat it. Stop. Respect it if you can't guess parry/block well.

Overall, Shinobi is certainly capable of bringing the beatdown - but he has to guess right each and every step of the way. There's no 21849071289471 stuns and unblockables and grabs coming at you. People just hate feeling like they got flawlessly dunked on (full HP is still full HP in terms of psychological damage, even if it's 90) - but if Shinobi messes up, he usually dies almost immediately, so unfortunately, that's a design feature.

Also, if you ever get hit by sickle rain, you're terrible or got outplayed.

Not only can you counter the grab that leads into it and kill him, YOU CAN BLOCK THE HEAVY TOO.

It's actually awful. I haven't even risked it enough to see if it's parriable, which would make it the worst risk in the history of for honor, because most players who are good enough to parry it will just throw reject the grab beforehand and kill you anyways - but sickle rain is a definite "baddie check" move. A shinobi actually doing a double heavy on you is suicide, and you getting hit by it should do damage directly to your pride.

Remember, you can block the heavy after he grabs you from range, if you fail to reject the grab. Don't give up. (Good Shinobi will take the guaranteed light/light instead, at the cost of no execute.)

VJWalker85
05-19-2017, 05:32 AM
I haven't played Shinobi but my buddy does, he loves the class. I main a conqerour, just started up a nobushi and when fighting the Shinobi his teleport kick is kind of tricky and they can be annoying but all in all they aren't that bad. If I lose to a Shinobi I generally know why.
The Centurian on the other hand, I played him on day one. That grab light light push kick lunge combo destroyed folks if I could grab them, but why bother with That? I just ran around ccing people. His stamina drain game is so scary. I eventually went back to my conqerour because he wasn't my style and when it came to 1v1 against the Cen. If I slipped up I was done, which I guess is the point but God forbid you get ganked by any class with a centurian as their partner. You might as well put down the controller. So much unlockable stamina drain. It needs to be toned down. Just a tad.

MasterChiefPON
05-19-2017, 06:07 AM
Someone ^ told me to say this here. I'm going to copy my post:

Hi, I'm a Kensei main and I have a concern about Centurion. This is not about what Kensei needs btw.

Since I don't have an unblockable to initiate, feints are my bread and butter but Centurion heavies are so fast that thay are coming through some of my feints.

For example, I canceled my top unblockable to do a light, the centurion fell for it, but his heavy came before I could even hit my light, then I canceled one heavy to gb and it hit me right away.

Why does the centurion has heavies with a light attack speed?? I don't know yet which feints it affects or the real speed of the heavy because the characters are new but that's what I'm experiencing.

Have you noticed it?

Note: I'm talking about the heavy when Centurion falls for a feint, not raw heavy (some people think I'm complaining about a raw heavy). It comes so fast that it limits my options after the feint, I try to parry it or I do nothing and block it. I'm not saying that what I said is 100% accurate but that's how I feel.

Herbstlicht
05-19-2017, 01:10 PM
Shinobi:

Weakness: defence, being outnumbered, punish vs heavy or ranged-gb moves, low stamina

Strength: speed, double-dodge, kick, initiating, harassing, fleeing, nice zone

Overall seems rather balanced to me with some moves where the opponent simply has to react with something before Shinobi does something. But I am convinced many Shinobi players already feel the pain of their opponents weapons as those already start attacks when Shinobi starts his dodge. Eating the first or second hit of any chain really hurts Shinobi. However, he shines as a counter attacker. For those that can use deflect and utilizize the moveset, I guess they made one of the most fun characters until now.


Centurion

Weakness: No glaring ones I'd say. Being a Assassin Vanguard Hybrid really makes him the tankiest Assassin of all, he got some safe moves, he got some punishable ones, but he isn't a bad trader, specially considering his added stamina damage.

Strength: Teamgames, most evil character to double team with, stamina drain, punishes, wall splat, very fast lights, very fast heavys, charged heavys with range that are rather hard to parry (at least on console), a vast variety of cc-moves.

Conclusion: Seems rather overpowered at a first glance, but this is with old defensive meta still active. If you pit him against the Shinobi, I feel Shinobi is a little bit advantaged when both players are playing on a very high skill level. On a mediocre skill level and especially on consoles though, Centurion is wreaking havoc. Sometimes in a good, sometimes in a not so good sense :3

As other people say: just don't try to play Kensei (or Nobushi) against him ^-^ Or Shug as well, he struggles too ..

Hillbill79
05-19-2017, 01:22 PM
Centurions heavy is quicker than most simply because it is a thrust, not a swing... less distance to travel... makes it quicker. The point always beats the edge. That was a very well understood thing in that style of warfare.


Someone ^ told me to say this here. I'm going to copy my post:

Hi, I'm a Kensei main and I have a concern about Centurion. This is not about what Kensei needs btw.

Since I don't have an unblockable to initiate, feints are my bread and butter but Centurion heavies are so fast that thay are coming through some of my feints.

For example, I canceled my top unblockable to do a light, the centurion fell for it, but his heavy came before I could even hit my light, then I canceled one heavy to gb and it hit me right away.

Why does the centurion has heavies with a light attack speed?? I don't know yet which feints it affects or the real speed of the heavy because the characters are new but that's what I'm experiencing.

Have you noticed it?

Note: I'm talking about the heavy when Centurion falls for a feint, not raw heavy (some people think I'm complaining about a raw heavy). It comes so fast that it limits my options after the feint, I try to parry it or I do nothing and block it. I'm not saying that what I said is 100% accurate but that's how I feel.

Plutonium Bug
05-19-2017, 01:26 PM
Centurion,

Strength: If you hit a charged heavy you can bash them to the ground and stab them there. + Very good CC!

Weakness: Quick characters with dodges are his weakness. Hard to hit your combo unless you put them against a wall.

Warden is main but already rep 9 so I think for S2 centurion will be my main as I love how he looks (although he suffers from incontinency:rolleyes:)

Bebille
05-19-2017, 01:49 PM
I haven't played with them, but this seems fun. So I'll answer this anyway. Also, expect not to get many replies, and basically no insightful replies as most players in this game are trash.

I'll try giving my best shot at not expressing my hatred for this game too blatantly while explaining.


Centurion

Strengths - One of the best heroes in the entire roster, he's well-balanced in 1v1s. Good, legitimate mixups and serves as a great tool do demonstrate a player's skill while using him. His heavy is definitely his strongest attack, as it's extremely fast, and can be charged up for mixups, long-range attacks (that honestly shouldn't be there) and tracking unblockables. Not much to say here, pretty decent bit of design by Ubisoft's part.

That's my critique for him for 1v1s only.

On the other hand, in 4v4 game modes he's absolutely disgusting. By far the best choice for literally any 4v4 game mode, his moveset is built to perfectly abuse all the flaws in the one player vs. many system. Because of this any 4v4 game mode is won or lost by the amount of Centurions on each team. This isn't an exaggeration for the sake of making a point, this is an actual statistic that I've checked over a dozen games. I haven't won a single Dominion match with fewer Centurions on my team than the enemy's team, and have won every single Dominion match that featured more Centurions in my team. To quote a Centurion player I fought during a Dominion match post killing me alongside his other Centurion ally: "Okay, I'll admit it, that was really gay." Man, I almost thought they got something right for once.

Weaknesses - He doesn't have much of these, but here's all that I've gathered from fighting him over and over in duels: Assassin heroes with dodge attacks are extremely useful against him, as enemies dodging his attacks is his biggest weakness, by far. Another weakness he has is his kick mixups, meaning dodging towards the enemy, hoping they dodge and then guardbreaking them. Due to the fact that the dodge has an insanely large window for the kick, fooling people with this is nearly impossible and only really happens when there's a large amount of pressure on your enemy.

Why do I like to play them - I have never played as him, I think the developers of this game did a fantastically abysmal job at designing and making this game and they deserve absolutely no more money than I already gave them for this game. Honestly, they don't deserve that money either.

Would I replace my main with them - Yeah, probably. Why the hell wouldn't I want free dominion wins?

What old hero gives you more trouble when you face him - I don't quite understand the question, but I'm guessing you mean which hero is Centurion's biggest weakness. I'd guess Peacekeeper. Very heavy on dodge attacks.


Shinobi

Strengths - His best tool is his double-dash. By far. The kick it leads to Is very difficult to dodge, as I think the developers kind of messed up with programming it. It has hyper armor, which I honestly think is a mistake by the developers. Nobody's that stupid. The double dash is also very difficult to punish, as it can be initiated instantly, with absolutely no delay or timing to it whatsoever, meaning that an attempt to guardbreak a Shinobi out of his double dash is almost a surefire way to get yourself smashed in the face by his kick. The second backflip kick is also very hard to dodge,as it can be delayed on top of being naturally difficult to deal with since the animation for it is obscured and pretty poorly made. The timing on his ranged guardbreak is different from any other guardbreak in the game, meaning players inexperienced with it will get grabbed to no-end. And if the other player manages to pull the Shinobi in and happens to be a slow character, a change of guard prior to attacking will cause the attack to be blockable (I also think this is a mistake). His light attacks are insanely fast. In fact, they're so fast that when a Shinobi fights a player using a keyboard and mouse, half of the time the fact that the mouse can accidentally change into a top-guard while moving to a side guard, causing the Shinobi's reckless and random light to land. Also, due to his small pool of health, he is able to regenerate a gigantic chunk of his health just by staying back and keeping on the defensive, which is probably the easiest thing to do in the game. Overall a terribly designed character all around.

Weaknesses - Really has only a single weakness - poor defenses. Though this is easily bypassed if played by a semi-decent player, or a player that figured out how to abuse his strengths.

Why do I like playing with him - Like i'd ever play with this skidmark of a hero.

Would I replace my main with him - Maybe, if I really wanted to give myself a reason to commit suicide.

What old hero gives you more trouble when you face him - I honestly have no clue.

Bebille
05-19-2017, 01:51 PM
Centurions heavy is quicker than most simply because it is a thrust, not a swing... less distance to travel... makes it quicker. The point always beats the edge. That was a very well understood thing in that style of warfare.

This is a video game. It doesn't 'make sense' because of real world logic, it's simply bad design.

DeLatv
05-19-2017, 03:24 PM
This game core gameplay was suposed to be mindgames, reading your opponent, i considered it more of an strategy game than a fighting game.

The problem with new champtions is

Centurion - cant tell the difference between light and heavy, almost the same speed. His kick is fast and has combos, can easy bybass turtling when enemy is out of stamina.
Hes as bad as Warden. Its literally not fun to play against, he forces me to turtle because of indistinguishable light/heavies and then bypass it with kicks AND if u make a parry mistake his pin attack will remove 50% of your life pool.
At this time when playing 1v1, i just quit matches against Centurions and Wardens, cos i fell no enjoyment fighting those classes.

Shinobi - I would consider Shinobi OP even if he had half the life pool he has right now. I have seen dumb shinobi, and played against good shinobi, - hes only ballanced in average Joe hands.
I couldnt even touch the great shinobi player, the doubble dash is insane, he can kick, gb you if you dodge, do light attack, its an unpredictable mixup.
After getting my *** beaten badly by the good shinobies, i couldnt even find out how to counterplay them. I could win a round or two, but soon enough they learned my patterns and played accordingly, when i cant, cos hes invisible in 2nd dash.

It make the game frustrating and not fun, just like Shugoki charge meta, Warden shouler bash, Warlord headbuts and Conq shield charge. Now I add centurion, with kicks and fast attacks, shinobi with teleportation.

You cant fight those classes because they dont give you the opputurnity to deflect or parry, they are using moves that remove parring and feinting from the game, where some classes are designed around those mechanics. (Kensei, Berserker)