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View Full Version : To the people complaining about Shinobi.



Jasado
05-18-2017, 05:27 PM
Let's get down to brass tacks.

Shinobi kick. People are crying about it having hyper armor.

Smart players have timed a heavy at the same time I kick them before - fairly certain trading a kick for 50%+ of my HP isn't a good trade for me as a Shinobi. Even if I get the option to initiate on you as a result of the trade, if you respond to my pressure right or I make ONE more mistake in that duel, you can immediately KILL me. It isn't the same for you. You have to make on average, 4+ mistakes against me, for me to kill you.

What, you want to interrupt my only aggressive move that opens turtles somewhat safely? Aren't you the same people who complain about turtle meta?

Or are you that Warden who camps in top stance and goes into a coma, purely waiting to parry me, occasionally throwing out zone attacks/grab from nowhere?

Secondly, Shinobi MUST double dodge to do the kick. If I want to follow up from that, I have to spend stamina FOUR TIMES for ONE INSTANCE OF DAMAGE. This is not "spammable" without me risking stamina break. He has no normal dodge attacks, ala Zerker and Orochi. You get a HUGE indicator from his smoke puff that the option is coming (and probably going to be the selected one.)

You CAN dodge the kick. I do it in mirrors all the time. If YOU have a dodge attack, you can easily counter him midair. Or, you can get a free GB. If YOU refuse to learn the timing and read the cues, that is YOUR fault.

Thirdly, if a Shinobi is within melee range, you can grab him during his double dash if you feel he's going to try and kick. It'll work every time. It isn't safe in point blank range. Most Shinobi freak out in melee range once you block them, so be patient and read the dodges for a grab like on anyone else.

For people complaining about "ranged attacks" and how there is "no counterplay"...

READ. Shinobi is the only character with HARD CODED COUNTERPLAY in his moveset. You're full of it if you say this. "All he does is spam ranged attacks and run, wahhhh" - if you say this, 100% guarantee YOU ABSOLUTELY SUCK AT THIS GAME or YOU GOT OUTPLAYED.

Probably a combination of both.

Any time you PARRY or THROW REJECT a Shinobi's ranged attack, he is pulled to you and thrown flat on his ***. This means a guaranteed top heavy or a jumping impale from Centurion. Also known as "near or instant death".

This applies to ALL OF HIS MIXUP MOVES. If he does a combo and backflips into a mix-up attack, and you counter any of it, you are IMMEDIATELY rewarded with 70% of Shinobi's life.

If you guess-parry (also known as reading your opponents) and you parry one of his light attacks, you are IMMEDIATELY rewarded with 70% of Shinobi's life. Even if you guess BLOCK, I can no longer backflip and must manually respond to your return pressure if I want to reset to safety. Neither of these situations are truly "worth" the pitiful damage my light attacks do, to justify the risk. Which is why the attack is at least "good".

This means that I have a 33% chance of losing most of my HP if I choose to spam light attacks. This does NOT apply to peacekeeper, who has nearly double the HP and a defensive tank passive. Do not even TRY to compare the tradeoffs, rofl.

If I did 4 light attack attempts and hit 100% of them, the problem is YOU, not me. Light spam does NOT chase through a dodge attack, only the second slash does, which is not the combo version and does tiny damage. Which means, simply dodging away with no attack resets me, and if I go for the second hit, it's probably in the same zone I just missed (because I was expecting you to stay still and therefore trying to confirm the double hit), meaning a free parry. If you choose to stick to the turtle meta and REFUSE to back away from a light spam attempt because you are thirsty to stay put and block/parry it to kill me, if you LOSE THAT TRADE 3+ TIMES, that is YOUR FAULT. You showed no respect and wanted to kill me, and it didn't work. I had to succeed repeatedly with extreme risk for myself, which is WHY THE LIGHT CONFIRMS ITSELF.

I know it sucks when someone kills you at 100% hp at it feels like you couldn't land a hit on them, psychologically. But it is intended for a Shinobi. "Landing a hit" on me means far more than hitting someone else, even once. I am usually allowed at max, ONE mistake. You usually have to make 3-4 mistakes as anyone else to be dead to rights.

I have my own mixups, which carry far heavier penalty than any other character's mixup options in the game, if I get countered. I also have the lowest HP count in the game. I also have some of the worst 1v2+ in the game. All of my ranged attacks carry a minimum of a 33% chance of outright or almost killing me instantly.

THIS is what justifies the light attack harassment. I have to read you correctly every time, and condition you into either gratefully eating more lights - or assume you'll finally dodge like a smart person, and grab you. It's not "free" or "op", you just lack fundamentals or were two steps behind.

Everything about Shinobi is high risk and decent reward. The play is actually in the enemy favor far more than you realize, because most people are too busy bulging their eyes out at confirmed damage happening over and over every time they make a mistake. Because of this, people focus only on Shinobi's strengths - WHICH IS A TRADEOFF FOR HOW SEVERE HIS WEAKNESSES ARE. That is intended. Shinobi must succeed far more times than an enemy to kill a target - and for all the options they have to choose from, they are all risky, which is why he can reset to safety when the risk pays off. This is why the return value of multiple confirms is bigger than you are used to seeing. If YOU have not researched those risks, if YOU do not understand the openings, if YOU don't know the timings or most likely attacks coming your way, that is YOUR fault. You might not have been outplayed because of the overwhelming skill of your opponent, but you WERE outplayed by your own insufficient understanding of how to defend yourself appropriately against them. Your refusal to acknowledge this does not make Shinobi OP.

It has been less than 72 hours. Of COURSE you don't know the matchup that well, and I know 90%+ of these complainers did zero practice matches to learn it. Just because you see repeated success cases of Shinobi is not proof he is op. If he's so broken, please upload your videos of you brainlessly hacking away a SINGLE skilled player over and over with your amazing zero practice Shinobi. There's a few naysayers with zero knowledge about how Shinobi works constantly complaining, and I'd love to see them put their money where their mouth is.

Also, Shinobi simply has far less control over how he kills someone with a manual heavy. It is not easy to get the execute. Many Shinobi must take the option to kill you with whatever opportunity presents itself, because protracted battles simply increase the chance of dying instantly or getting 1v2+'d and dying instantly. People don't talk about it, but in most game modes where revives matter, Shinobi does not have consistent execute potential without severely outplaying his opponents in his worst situation (point blank range).

So, we arrive at the main weakness of the Shinobi.

An enemy with patience and a calm response every step of the fight. People willing to play the long game.

Clearly, we now see why people screeching at the top of their lungs in less than 3 days are losing. These people have zero patience, and even less tolerance for learning a new matchup.

Perfect prey for a Ninja.

Knight_Gregor
05-18-2017, 05:34 PM
My oh my...

Now where did I put my popcorn?

Jasado
05-18-2017, 05:37 PM
My oh my...

Now where did I put my popcorn?

*takes freshly popped bag out of microwave*

My body is ready.