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fromsweden
02-07-2004, 09:07 AM
Well the AI is stupid, that?s not news.

My primary problems are:
(In no particular order)

-The AI crashes in the ground all the time when landing and otherwise.
============================
PLEASE! REMOVE ALL OBSTACLES WITHIN THE LANDING CIRCLE (circulation) AROUND AN AIRFIELD! (we are talking about 6 or 7 seven kilometres here)

Obstacles being Woods, building AND changes in the elevation.
(to me it doesn't matter if a particular landing field have a forest or mountain or whatever near it as it had in the real life. I am sure as hell that in the real life those landmarks weren?t adorned with the shrapnel of hundred undamaged planes.)

No obstacles, means no crashes when landing, its as simple as that.

It is not fun when the whole squadron happily runs into the ground one after one.

The problem with planes crashing in the ground while dogfighting still remains, a possible solve to this could be an option to turn off crash detection for ground above a certain elevation. (Yeah I know its lame but hey fly Crimea and watch all the planes suddenly manned by kamikaze pilots. (Very inefficient kamikaze pilots I might add))

-The AI have a bad target prioritizings.
============================
All the guys run after the bomber with burning engines and ignore the 20 other guys running towards the target.

Maybe difficult to program? Very annoying and not realistic anyway.

Oh and might I add that the burning bombing plane is caused by me? So we are talking about fragstealing to, not that I care that much but the AI should choose the most undamaged bombers with bombs still left if possible.

-Friendly planes keep colliding all the time!
============================
In the bf-109 campaign I am running there?s been a collision with friendly planes at least in 1 out of 3 missions.

I know a very easy workaround for this particular problem.
Create a difficulty setting where one can turn off crash detection for friendly planes in the same formation only.

This would solve the problem since friendly planes in the same formation never run into each other on purpose.

I know that not very realistic, but friendly planes colliding in 1 out of 3 missions, (sometimes more) isn't realistic either. This setting would in my opinion make the game more realistic. And, again the players can agree on what they want.

-Poor wounded guy!
============================
Isn't there some way to give the wounded AI-plane priority when landing?
It have happened on more than one occasion that the friendly but wounded plane all the time have to wait while the faster and undamaged aircrafts sneak in before him until he crashes. Now this is HEAVILY unrealistic.

-Disobeying little bastards
============================
Why do I sometimes have to turn on the autopilot in order to get them to rejoin. They do not always obey me when I issue different order. Flashing the autopilot on and off might help.

I would also like the ability to order a single guy back to base when I know he Isn't going to make it, and then I really want him to fly back to the base.

This would solve the problem for the "Poor wounded guy!" in your own flight anyway.

Otherwise this is a good sim, I love it and I will keep on flying.

fromsweden
02-07-2004, 09:07 AM
Well the AI is stupid, that?s not news.

My primary problems are:
(In no particular order)

-The AI crashes in the ground all the time when landing and otherwise.
============================
PLEASE! REMOVE ALL OBSTACLES WITHIN THE LANDING CIRCLE (circulation) AROUND AN AIRFIELD! (we are talking about 6 or 7 seven kilometres here)

Obstacles being Woods, building AND changes in the elevation.
(to me it doesn't matter if a particular landing field have a forest or mountain or whatever near it as it had in the real life. I am sure as hell that in the real life those landmarks weren?t adorned with the shrapnel of hundred undamaged planes.)

No obstacles, means no crashes when landing, its as simple as that.

It is not fun when the whole squadron happily runs into the ground one after one.

The problem with planes crashing in the ground while dogfighting still remains, a possible solve to this could be an option to turn off crash detection for ground above a certain elevation. (Yeah I know its lame but hey fly Crimea and watch all the planes suddenly manned by kamikaze pilots. (Very inefficient kamikaze pilots I might add))

-The AI have a bad target prioritizings.
============================
All the guys run after the bomber with burning engines and ignore the 20 other guys running towards the target.

Maybe difficult to program? Very annoying and not realistic anyway.

Oh and might I add that the burning bombing plane is caused by me? So we are talking about fragstealing to, not that I care that much but the AI should choose the most undamaged bombers with bombs still left if possible.

-Friendly planes keep colliding all the time!
============================
In the bf-109 campaign I am running there?s been a collision with friendly planes at least in 1 out of 3 missions.

I know a very easy workaround for this particular problem.
Create a difficulty setting where one can turn off crash detection for friendly planes in the same formation only.

This would solve the problem since friendly planes in the same formation never run into each other on purpose.

I know that not very realistic, but friendly planes colliding in 1 out of 3 missions, (sometimes more) isn't realistic either. This setting would in my opinion make the game more realistic. And, again the players can agree on what they want.

-Poor wounded guy!
============================
Isn't there some way to give the wounded AI-plane priority when landing?
It have happened on more than one occasion that the friendly but wounded plane all the time have to wait while the faster and undamaged aircrafts sneak in before him until he crashes. Now this is HEAVILY unrealistic.

-Disobeying little bastards
============================
Why do I sometimes have to turn on the autopilot in order to get them to rejoin. They do not always obey me when I issue different order. Flashing the autopilot on and off might help.

I would also like the ability to order a single guy back to base when I know he Isn't going to make it, and then I really want him to fly back to the base.

This would solve the problem for the "Poor wounded guy!" in your own flight anyway.

Otherwise this is a good sim, I love it and I will keep on flying.

AndyHigh
02-07-2004, 10:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fromsweden:
PLEASE! REMOVE ALL OBSTACLES WITHIN THE LANDING CIRCLE (circulation) AROUND AN AIRFIELD! (we are talking about 6 or 7 seven kilometres here)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi, I agree with all the other things you wrote
but not with this one. I think that fe. on finnish map forests are already quite far away from air fields. Wartime air fields near front lines were propably small and improvised with woods nearby to allow planes to be hidden quickly. Best way would be to make AI just smarter on landing.

Another thing is abilities of AI leaders, they never order different swarms to go after certain targerts (even EAW had this). Also, communication with ground control is very limited. They never warn you about new enemy planes spotted by air surveillance stations etc.

fromsweden
02-07-2004, 01:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Originally posted by AndyHigh:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Originally posted by fromsweden:
PLEASE! REMOVE ALL OBSTACLES WITHIN THE LANDING CIRCLE (circulation) AROUND AN AIRFIELD! (we are talking about 6 or 7 seven kilometres here)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi, I agree with all the other things you wrote
but not with this one. I think that fe. on finnish map forests are already quite far away from air fields. Wartime air fields near front lines were propably small and improvised with woods nearby to allow planes to be hidden quickly. Best way would be to make AI just smarter on landing.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe, I can agree with you on the forest, its never any mayor factor, the worst is the hills. The hills are the worst AI-killers.

Beer Baron
02-09-2004, 12:56 AM
Yeah some good points listed. I would add that the AI should decide to bail out earlier, especially when the engine is on fire or knocked out and their a sitting duck! This would alleviate some of the kill stealing behaviour of your AI buddies

LuftKuhMist
02-10-2004, 09:47 PM
AMEN brother.

May I add CHECK YOUR FIRE!!! I'd like to fear my friends less than my foes.

Luftcaca
02-11-2004, 05:51 PM
Im totally in
AI is by far the WORST problem with that sim right now
Im sick of peeps whining about the DM of the 190, or about the Mustang being 10 kmh slower than it should be...
the AI is....well not pathetic but close

oh yeah, the AI is totally unable to make deflection angles, or at least to correct the angle.

I could have a whole wing of ennemy fighters at my six. The only thing I would have to do is to perform a slight and regular turn...and wait for everyone to waste their ammo. After, when they would break, I would just kill em one after the other and of course, they would ignore the 20mm shots until they all explode.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

AndyHigh
02-12-2004, 06:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Luftcaca:
oh yeah, the AI is totally unable to make deflection angles, or at least to correct the angle.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, if enemy AI is at ace level, they seem to hit almost always when firing from diffucult angle. Usually short burst from front and below with deflection and your engine is gone.

Not to mention those robot tailgunners. What I've heard the coriolis effect of earth should make it quite hard to hit fighters coming from side and below. Especially if the distance is like 500 m I don't think its realistic to hit fighter with one bullet.

JorBR
02-12-2004, 07:19 AM
AI in CFS series is plain ridiculous. I don´t know about other games so it´s impossible to me to say what is FB´s AI deficiency and what is technological restraints.

I guess because people here seems to be mostly online players AI isn´t a recurrent issue.

Nevertheless AI behaviour is FB´s true Achylles Heel.

"Never wrestle with a pig; you both get dirty but the pig enjoys it!"

Condor124
02-12-2004, 09:52 AM
*** Bump ****

I have to agree, the AI needs improving. I hope Oleg can address some of these issues soon.
My guess is though that given the current FB engine, these improvements are not easily implemented.

My addition to the list is this(also not possible in FB):

The AI aircraft within close visual range should be limited to the same flight model we humans have. ie no amazing flips and instant 180 degree turns etc.

Maybe this could be limited to just Enemy AI so as to not over load the CPU's. Believe me the human flight model is very CPU demanding vs the AI flight model.

Condor out

Luftcaca
02-12-2004, 11:02 AM
''Well, if enemy AI is at ace level, they seem to hit almost always when firing from diffucult angle. Usually short burst from front and below with deflection and your engine is gone.''


yes, thats true too
at 750 kmh in a dive with an almost impossible angle they can make the most of it, while, with easier shooting angles, they manage to waste their entire ammo...

oh and btw, noticed that the flaps of the AI will never jam?
I realised that after I removed the auto-pilot while he was diving as hell, about 700 kmh. First thing I saw was FLAPS JAMMED, so it means the flaps werent jammed as long as the auto-pilot of my plane was in charge, and we all know the auto-pilot is a part of the AI.

you may add that to the ''seeing through clouds'' and the ''no blackouts'' AI

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

JorBR
02-12-2004, 12:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Luftcaca:
''(...)
oh and btw, noticed that the flaps of the AI will never jam?
I realised that after I removed the auto-pilot while he was diving as hell, about 700 kmh. First thing I saw was FLAPS JAMMED, so it means the flaps werent jammed as long as the auto-pilot of my plane was in charge, and we all know the auto-pilot is a part of the AI.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

AI simplified FM. This hapenned to me countless times untill I get used to wait the speed to drop :mad2

"Never wrestle with a pig; you both get dirty but the pig enjoys it!"

Luftcaca
02-12-2004, 02:25 PM
at least we know that the AI will be modified in the add-on, lets hope Oleg focused on the real problems, like friendly fire and target priority

I can live with the AI simplified FM


...

oh and btw, GREAT SIM! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

JHAT__
02-12-2004, 08:28 PM
I ve been flying a lot of Quick Missions lately, so I ve been seeing some real annoying things with the AI.

I have one bandit in front of me and one behind, so i tell my WM to engane the one behind me (tab/1/7 get him off me) and he engages the one IN FRONT of me.. the one behind is still there and now I am only being chased.

I line up at a bandits 6 oc low and close in for the convergence range... when I squeeze the trigger the bandit breaks. Hey, My bullets haven t even travelled half way to target!!! Does the Ace Ai has a 6th sense that tells when the bandit he can t even see pushes his trigger?!

Unless I tell my WM to engage someone he will foloww me the WHOLE time, even though there are 10 other 109s around us and one was behind me before he joined me in this stupid formation flying.

AI gunners are ridiculously accurate... AI fighters can hit negative g deflection shots EVERYTIME(hey, he can t see through his nose!!! or can he...)

AI sees through clods and everything.

Has anyone noticed how the AI can manouver? You engage them and they come with that su27 cobra manouver... the stop in the air pull their noses back and come right at you! I in my P47 have to slow down and reduce prop pitch so my engine won t carry me 2 km ahead of the enemy... the just do these cobra manouvers.. i didn t know the 109 s could do that. ALso,c an someone fix the AI 6th sense for bandits closing in from tehir blind spots?


Alright, this is all I remeber.. I know mr Oleg "God" maddox won t read this, and if he does, he won t change ANYTHING, but I tried... This game isn t only online you know Mr Maddox... there are some people out there that can t join a game...

JHAT

IV_JG51_Prien
02-13-2004, 06:56 AM
I agree with the batplane turn on a dime maneuvers that the AI does. I just can't see the logic behind giving the AI a simplified FM, especially when it makes it possible to do things that should make them stall and spin.

It's really frustrating to get behind an AI plane only to have it pull some MC Hammer dance move just as you pull the trigger.

I also had an AI plane repeatedly do a downward split s.. until he hit the ground.... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

Luftcaca
02-13-2004, 10:30 PM
yes, you guys are both right!!!

''I line up at a bandits 6 oc low and close in for the convergence range... when I squeeze the trigger the bandit breaks. Hey, My bullets haven t even travelled half way to target!!! Does the Ace Ai has a 6th sense that tells when the bandit he can t even see pushes his trigger?!''

for some reason I forgot to mention that, but its so true.

and also the near stall ''extreme'' maneuvers the AI is allowed to do..I mean, take the 190, run it at very low speed, like 250 kmh, near the ground, and try to pull one near stall maneuver that the AI seems to perform so easily...you'll be dead soon enough i'll garantee

and also the ''cover me'' issue....another prob
COVER ME doesnt mean ''watch the ennemy plane shooting at me'' or ''try to shoot down the same plane as me''!!!! Somtimes it works properly and you get your arse saved but too many times you cant rely on your wingmen.

Im glad to see me and LuftKhumist arent the two only guys annoyed by the AI....(and that rhymes...almost!) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

Tully__
02-13-2004, 11:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fromsweden:

-The AI crashes in the ground all the time when landing...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Report which airfields they're landing at when you see this problem. Landing patterns are scripted for each airfield, this is usually due to an error in the script for the airfield at which the problem occurs.

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Salut
Tully

Urist
02-14-2004, 12:07 AM
I'm having a hell of a time in my Finnish campaign with the AI..

-They steal my kills, the few times I manage to get them.

-the autopilot won't maintain formation so I have to fly the old fashioned way all the way to target.

-poor instructions from the flight leader, except when I leave formation. He likes to point that out as often as possible.

- ground control? "One cleared to land, two cleared to land, three cleared to land, four cleared to land....... TWO, TRAFFIC ON THE RUNWAY, GO AROUND, THREE, TRAFFIC ON TH.... etc etc..."

- What flight is being talked to?

- Vector who? And to where?!?!? Can't be me, i'll just keep flying to my next waypoint.

- Did my flight just finish its mission and is headed home or some other flight?

- Which flight where is under attack?

- OH NO!!! BANDITS 3 O'CLOCK!!!! Oh, must have been someone else seeing bandits at three o'clock.

- Oh, looks like everyone is flying line astern now. Must have missed that hand signal.

- Someone, somewhere, is getting there butt kicked and screaming for help. Too bad they don't tell me where they are so I could help.


I remember in EAW getting vectored by ground control to intercept bombers. Now, maybe they didn't have radar in the east, but it would sure be nice.

fromsweden
02-14-2004, 05:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hop72:
Yeah some good points listed. I would add that the AI should decide to bail out earlier, especially when the engine is on fire or knocked out and their a sitting duck! This would alleviate some of the kill stealing behaviour of your AI buddies<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The reason they do that is if the plane isn?t that damged they try to land. The problem is that they gladly fly into a forest to a certain demise.

If the AI can determine it will touch in a forest they should try to bail out instead.

And AI should also be programmed to ignore enemies that are either ?returning to base? or ?I?m on fire?. Unless those are the only guys left.

This should be easy to do.

fromsweden
02-14-2004, 05:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Luftcaca:
Im totally in
AI is by far the WORST problem with that sim right now
Im sick of peeps whining about the DM of the 190, or about the Mustang being 10 kmh slower than it should be...
the AI is....well not pathetic but close
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you, I try to be constructive when I post and come with suggestion to problems. But many good posts disappear in the massive barrage of whine about the matters you mention.

I think that today it is very difficult to establish the Total truth about many facts during ww2. None can know for sure exactly what performances the different planes really did have. I think they are very close in this sim. But noone can be perfect today.

And when debating these matters its important to not forget the other parts that make up a good sim.

Like the AI for instance.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
oh yeah, the AI is totally unable to make deflection angles, or at least to correct the angle.

I could have a whole wing of enemy fighters at my six. The only thing I would have to do is to perform a slight and regular turn...and wait for everyone to waste their ammo. After, when they would break, I would just kill em one after the other and of course, they would ignore the 20mm shots until they all explode.

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yes there are some problems with that. The higher skilled AIs are better at deflecting shots.

On a sidenote,
I have a theory that the shots AI fires this way are not counted in the same way as the ordinary shots they fire. They got more ammo. (which is ok since it makes it more a challenge.)

fromsweden
02-14-2004, 06:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AndyHigh:
Not to mention those robot tailgunners. What I've heard the coriolis effect of earth should make it quite hard to hit fighters coming from side and below. Especially if the distance is like 500 m I don't think its realistic to hit fighter with one bullet.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes the AI gunners are skilled, it forces one to make Head on attacks or take deflecting angels. This is in my opinion not so bad since although unrealistic it makes the game playable for the player in a bombplane and increases the challenge.

1 on 1 The bombplane is defeated in 99% percent of the times. The toughest bombplanes I?ve seen so far are the B-17.

Head on attacks are really devastating for bombplanes.

LEXX_Luthor
02-14-2004, 06:03 AM
AI much improved with Patch 1.22. THANK YOU OLEG!

Agreed with some problems though. But in large dogfights or when you are fixing on a target and not turning much, the AI will come up and BAM you are dead and you don't see them. I find this very realistic and scary. Sometimes AI does things right.

__________________
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fromsweden
02-14-2004, 06:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Luftcaca:
at least we know that the AI will be modified in the add-on, lets hope Oleg focused on the real problems, like friendly fire and target priority

I can live with the AI simplified FM
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Me too, I think the AI must have a simplified model, otherwise the AI wouldn?t be able to fly at all, it would stall and crash all the time, the bigger planes (Bf110, Pe-2-3 series and even IL2 sometimes) Have a big problem with that already with the model they have.

I wonder if it is at all possible to give them a more advanced FM, I see two problems:

1. How to program the AI, make the AI on a pure algorithmic level behave correctly, figure out what routines to write. These are problems where the computer science have not evolved enough.

2. The technical limits in the hardware, not everyone have the latest equipment and the load it would add to the CPU would eliminate people with a lesser systems and decrease the sales of the game.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
...
oh and btw, GREAT SIM! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[/QUOTE]

I agree with you there! Super Sim! The Greatest!

fromsweden
02-14-2004, 06:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JHAT__:
I ve been flying a lot of Quick Missions lately, so I ve been seeing some real annoying things with the AI.

I have one bandit in front of me and one behind, so i tell my WM to engane the one behind me (tab/1/7 get him off me) and he engages the one IN FRONT of me.. the one behind is still there and now I am only being chased.

I line up at a bandits 6 oc low and close in for the convergence range... when I squeeze the trigger the bandit breaks. Hey, My bullets haven t even travelled half way to target!!! Does the Ace Ai has a 6th sense that tells when the bandit he can t even see pushes his trigger?! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is ok in my opinion, The AI is still very easy to defeat. Even on ACE level. (and of ourse especially in a bomber, the only thing holding one back is the amount of ammo)

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Unless I tell my WM to engage someone he will foloww me the WHOLE time, even though there are 10 other 109s around us and one was behind me before he joined me in this stupid formation flying.

AI gunners are ridiculously accurate... AI fighters can hit negative g deflection shots EVERYTIME(hey, he can t see through his nose!!! or can he...)

AI sees through clods and everything.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, Bombers are easy to bring down, they don?t have much to put up against a well determined fighter attack.

To program so that the AI couldn?t see through clouds is difficult if not possible. I dint think there exist any solution for this.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Alright, this is all I remeber.. I know mr Oleg "God" maddox won t read this, and if he does, he won t change ANYTHING, but I tried... This game isn t only online you know Mr Maddox... there are some people out there that can t join a game...
JHAT<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, there are a lot of unconstructive whining, I can?t blame the developers if they don?t want to spend to much time looking here.

There are to much whining about the EXACT performance of different planes. There should be more about the other parts that make up a good Simulator.

It is true that a lot of playing happens offline and must not be forgotten.

I am personally satisfied if any developer would post some kind of confirmation that the posts have been read. Maybe they could make a weekly generic letter where they publish all the viewpoints they have taken part off and/or are thinking about. So people don?t have to repost or bump.

fromsweden
02-14-2004, 06:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fromsweden:

-The AI crashes in the ground all the time when landing...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Report which airfields they're landing at when you see this problem. Landing patterns are scripted for each airfield, this is usually due to an error in the script for the airfield at which the problem occurs.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I will keep a lookout but all the maps in and around Crimea have several Airbases with these problems.

fromsweden
02-14-2004, 06:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Urist:
I'm having a hell of a time in my Finnish campaign with the AI..

-They steal my kills, the few times I manage to get them.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you there, AI should ignore damaged Aircrafts if there are more undamaged aircrafts. And it should be possible to get assists as was common in real life.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>-the autopilot won't maintain formation so I have to fly the old fashioned way all the way to target.

-poor instructions from the flight leader, except when I leave formation. He likes to point that out as often as possible.

- ground control? "One cleared to land, two cleared to land, three cleared to land, four cleared to land....... TWO, TRAFFIC ON THE RUNWAY, GO AROUND, THREE, TRAFFIC ON TH.... etc etc..."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

-I have run into the same problem sometimes, I think. What I have done is leave the autopilot on and eventually he will start navigating again. The autopilot is necessary in order to get to the target with the help of Accelerated time. I think they should also make the LEVEL STABILISATOR an option for fighterplanes so that one can fly long distances without the autopilot at all.

WARNING, Never turn on the autopilot when you are damaged, you may loose bombs. Becides its always funny to land a damaged plane by oneself. When undamaged I often let the Autopilot land since it is the fastest way.

-Yes its annoying when the flight leader whines, He seems to give up after a while though.

The ground control needs more work I agree. Damaged planes get to fly around a very long time when they should be prioritised.

And when flying home I like to fly parallel to the airbase and order different flights home at different intervals so that they not all end up circling in a big group, this however is hard to do since the AI doesn?t obey fully.

The autopilot is a way to control the AI and get them to rejoin when they otherwise don?t seem to want to.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>- What flight is being talked to?

- Vector who? And to where?!?!? Can't be me, i'll just keep flying to my next waypoint.

- Did my flight just finish its mission and is headed home or some other flight?

- Which flight where is under attack?

- OH NO!!! BANDITS 3 O'CLOCK!!!! Oh, must have been someone else seeing bandits at three o'clock.

- Oh, looks like everyone is flying line astern now. Must have missed that hand signal.

- Someone, somewhere, is getting there butt kicked and screaming for help. Too bad they don't tell me where they are so I could help.

I remember in EAW getting vectored by ground control to intercept bombers. Now, maybe they didn't have radar in the east, but it would sure be nice.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, one should really only hear ones own flight and eventual bombers.

plumps_
02-14-2004, 08:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fromsweden:

-The AI crashes in the ground all the time when landing...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Report which airfields they're landing at when you see this problem. Landing patterns are scripted for each airfield, this is usually due to an error in the script for the airfield at which the problem occurs.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There seems to be only one script for all airfields, and this doesn't take into account the geographical characteristics of the respective bases. See this thread. (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=57710953)


And then there are some bases where the AI used to crash almost always during the landing until version 1.21, and where they refuse to land at all in 1.22. E.g. the northern approach to the base at V8 on the Kuban map.

On the southern approach to this base AI don't land on the runway but on the parking position, some of them will crash into the fuel tanks.

This bug wasn't there in the original IL-2, it was introduced with FB!

-----------------------------------
http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/stulogo-banner.jpg (http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/)

Kampagne für IL-2 1.2: I-16 - Kampf im Kaukasus (Deutsch) (http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/kampagne.html)

fromsweden
02-14-2004, 09:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by plumps_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tully__:
Report which airfields they're landing at when you see this problem. Landing patterns are scripted for each airfield, this is usually due to an error in the script for the airfield at which the problem occurs. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There seems to be only one script for all airfields, and this doesn't take into account the geographical characteristics of the respective bases. http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=57710953

And then there are some bases where the AI used to crash almost always during the landing until version 1.21, and where they refuse to land at all in 1.22. E.g. the northern approach to the base at V8 on the Kuban map.

On the southern approach to this base AI don't land on the runway but on the parking position, some of them will crash into the fuel tanks.

This bug wasn't there in the original IL-2, it was introduced with FB!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good picture in your post there. Both funny and informative. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Yes, the online maps need not be changed but the real world maps need it badly. It has happened to me that I get assigned to a base in an offline campaign that kills my wingmen every time.

My workaround have been to turn off landings and Take offs, then I can end the mission before my wingmen run into their artificial deaths.

It would be easy to change this, I think, the only thing a developer have to do is open the actual map file(s) and edit so that the locations around the airbases are open and hillfree. They don?t have to change the online maps.

This would be easily done.

LuftKuhMist
02-14-2004, 11:44 AM
Well, we don't need an AI who flies 100% with the FM. We need an AI who is not plain stupid and who watches what he shoots. Maybe also make it adapt to the different planes he flies. I hate to see bombers leaving formations to do some candle climbs while shooting at me. This is impossible for many reasons, starting with plane performances and the coordination this would demand of crew members. (Here is waist gunner, hey pilot, could you roll to the left a little?)

As for fighters, I think I get shot down by my friends more often than my foes. Could they work as a team? Could they try not to always jump on my kills? I'd like to be able to focus on my target instead of trying to evade wingmen fire and trying to shoot my target to pieces else my kill will be stolen. Seriously they really ruin my game experience.

Good thing is that AI will be redone for the addon I think... so until then, waiting and hoping.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif

BfHeFwMe
02-14-2004, 10:13 PM
I'll agree, no sense in seeking the 'perfect' flightmodels when your in a sky full of birdbrains and dingbats, a good flight model there is a waste of resources.

Basically the vets and aces are turned backwards 180, zero threat from behind and 100% kills from the front if you take no action. The three-nine line is the switch point. You can survive any AI merge by rolling and placing the AI right past your wing tip, absolute miss every time. The whole thing is bass ackward, can't hit squat in the normal realm, and unbelievable in the extreme shots.

Things that make me scratch my head, why are nimble fighters flying jumb jet approaches in the first place? Why can't they do an over the field break, like fighters would in combat? Ten to fifteen minutes to land some fighters, come on. These things are sitting ducks for an eternity in the silly pattern, never would have happened.

I'd like to see a command to order a bail out on damaged wingmen. Also one to order immediate course for nearest friendly lines. A command to order your wingman to land in formation off your wing, ecshelon left or right any strip. A command to land elements at the nearest present airstrip.

As for them shooting through me, not much of a problem, don't usually ride fixed in the kill zone, rarely happens than. Guess they already have me trained well.

Hope the comms get fixed like mentioned, I just turn the gibberish off, totally worthless hearing as for now.

LuftKuhMist
02-17-2004, 11:27 PM
The thread sank...

Bringing it back up.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif

Luftcaca
02-18-2004, 11:07 AM
something else to report

Somtimes when I take off and I see that there are only few ennemy planes in the sky well I simply leave my flight and go all on my own to meet the ennemy planes. Anyway with the way the friendly AI behaves I think its safer that way. Currently in my Luftwaffe campaign Im usually number II, cuz Im only and Hauptmann not a major yet. of course when I leave the formation I hear the flight leader whining endlessly but why the hell and I REPEAT, why the hell are no5, no6, no7 and no8 following me??? go elsewhere you ******s, I dont want you to steal my kills by shooting down burning wreckages!!!

somthing that sounds like that but a wee bit different. Im also usually number two in my IL2 campaign.
We almost always get intercepted by 109'S, and since we almost never have any escort planes (1941) we must insure our own security. of course by that I mean that I must call for help or else they will just wait to all be dead, but thats not the prob cuz I really dont care if my fellow Il2's get shot down.
the prob is IF no 1 dies, I, no2, becomes the flight leader and the whole group begins to follow me but I CANT GIVE EM ANY ORDER. Consequence? if we attack an airfield they just follow me over the airfield without doing anything while I bring down the FLAK or get brought down by it. I reckon this should be corrected, if YOU become the flight leader because the first flight leader fell, you should be able to give orders to your group, or else they'll just follow you like ******s.

heh, enuff

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

JorBR
02-19-2004, 11:30 AM
Thread´s sinking...

Bump!

"Never wrestle with a pig; you both get dirty but the pig enjoys it!"

WUAF_Pv_Closter
02-19-2004, 12:42 PM
Bump!

LuftKuhMist
02-19-2004, 02:07 PM
True thing luftcaca said about flight hierarchy.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif

Luftcaca
02-19-2004, 02:12 PM
Hierarchy heh?
talking about the AI I would rather say TOTAL CHAOS, and Ive chosen my words carefully heheheh http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

LuftKuhMist
02-19-2004, 02:17 PM
TOTAL CHAOS YEAH!!!

"Kill the nazi kill the nazi kill the nazi kill em dead."

"Shoot them dead in the head, lend a shovel to his friend."

"Load em up on a ship shoot a missile in the side."

"To the bottom there they go, nazis are all better off dead."

http://www.gnattynation.com/totalchaos127.jpg

OY OY OY

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif

SuomiPilotti
02-21-2004, 12:39 PM
My problem is, that my own planes shoot me down! And they are kill-stealers!

LuftKuhMist
02-22-2004, 03:33 PM
That's our problem. Welcome to the club.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif

Luftcaca
02-24-2004, 02:36 PM
bump
I shall not let this topic sink as low as the AI is http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

Luftcaca
02-29-2004, 11:38 AM
Bump

sigh, AI so ignore the meaning of RETURN TO BASE...

For em it means either attack my target or wait over an ennemy airfield til you'll all be dead...

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

plumps_
02-29-2004, 11:50 AM
In my experience "Return to Base" means "fly to the last waypoint before the base, then land". That's why mission designers should place the last waypoint just a few km outside of the base.

-----------------------------------
http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/stulogo-banner.jpg (http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/)

Kampagne für IL-2 1.2: I-16 - Kampf im Kaukasus (Deutsch) (http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/kampagne.html)

Luftcaca
03-07-2004, 04:33 PM
Ive played ACE
good expansion....great new planes....

but still, I'd like to give a big BUMP to this thread

...

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

Zentaurus
03-07-2004, 05:16 PM
AI in online coops and online campaigns is the same as in offline, thus its not only a problem of the offline players but of the whole community.
In AEP (which i quite like btw) unfortunately the AI doesnt seem to have improved much if at all. On the contrary i can see more strangeness...its now always spinning when being shot at...regularly...its unrealistic if every second AI plane you shoot at suddenly goes into a spin of death...
Killstealing and general swarmlike behavior still prevails (they are bots after all...)...possibly a better AI is not really possible within the boundarys of the Il2 engine... i dont know...

still, its a bit embarrassing to say, but in old EAW days i never thought AI behaved strange...it was a much simpler game of course...but much more demanding to fight against then FB AI....but with all this computer power available today the AI in FB is still quite maddening, thats one of the reasons why i dont fly much offline anymore..

II/JG54_Zent

http://www.martinvonelm.de/BilderIL2FB/bannerherzII.jpeg (http://groups.msn.com/IIGruppeJagdgeschwader54)

Luftcaca
03-07-2004, 06:19 PM
yes
the major flaws are still there....kill stealing...disobedience...friendly fire...and of course, the ennemy AI cant do deflection angles, except for aces or when flying at very high speed. not to mention the impossible near-stall maneuvers that the AI seems to pull so easily.

I must admit Im kinda disappointed with that....really...

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

LuftKuhMist
03-08-2004, 12:49 AM
Same here, I would have paid for an AI only add on. All the new planes are great but AI is still the same old ******-o-thon we had before.

I have still been shot by my wingmen. Seriously when I get tired of this game it's ONLY because of the AI.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

Luftcaca
03-08-2004, 01:15 PM
Mr Maddox I know you've been reading the topics more lately, if you read this, could you please bring some light on WHY THE AI WASNT IMPROVED WITH AEP??

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

LuftKuhMist
03-09-2004, 12:36 PM
No sinking for you young man.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

Luftcaca
03-09-2004, 05:27 PM
got shot down by my fella Yak7B earlier today, while I was trying to shot down a wing-crippled F4 who was able to pull incredible maneuvers at 250 kph, alt 200 meters.

yes, thats a way to bump this thread to be sure OLEG READS IT

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

SeaFireLIV
03-09-2004, 05:39 PM
Well, I still wait my copy of EAP, but I`ve heard that AI HAS been improved. Are you guys just seeking out the total negatives? I used to work in a business where my job was to seek out opinions and that meant honest opinions, not just pet gripes. So it always gets me when i see stuff like this which gives me the impression that AI is totally crap. I quite liked the AI in the unexpanded FB as it is, so I don`t believe it`s all so terrible.

Here, have a look for the GOOD things and post that as well...
Try to be unbiased. I heard AI was revamped. Something must be better. Gah! I hate hearing negative news without being able to test for myself!

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/storm.jpg
Soon... Very soon....

LuftKuhMist
03-09-2004, 05:48 PM
Seafire, AI hasn`t been improved, we have AEP.

Hey, the planes are cool, carreers are fun, new voices fun, new weapons too, AI URGH.

Graphics looks better also. I don`t have slowdowns in my framerates, there are little bugs, though. Sturmovik is really a well coded game.

AI, same. One thing I have noticed though is the ai is less reluctant to attack head on. But all the things that annoyed you about your wingmen are still present.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

SeaFireLIV
03-09-2004, 05:50 PM
Well, when I get EAP (eventually), I shall know for certain.

LuftKuhMist
03-09-2004, 05:58 PM
Then tell us your impressions. Looks like Luftcaca and me are the two folks who care most about AI.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

Luftcaca
03-09-2004, 06:02 PM
"have a look for the GOOD things and post that as well"

Ah eum....heh now that I think about it I dont recall seeing any plane crash into a mountain like if the mountain wasnt there since Ive installed AEP

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

rbstr44
03-09-2004, 08:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Well, when I get EAP (eventually), I shall know for certain.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't have it yet, either, so I have to read everyone's accounts of what they like and don't like. People posting to page 1 of this short General Forum thread said they noticed small, but favorable changes to AI programming: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=109103562

Displacement through a Slab of Glass
http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/refraction/displacementcolorthreebeams.jpg
Entering and exiting rays are displaced
from each other, but parallel.
Refraction of Light (http://sol.sci.uop.edu/~jfalward/refraction/refraction.html)

PzKpfw
03-09-2004, 10:20 PM
Below are some things I have observed.

- AI winger hit belching smoke etc, flight leader orders him to RTB. Nope not him he's going for that Iron Cross, or Hero of the Soviet Union http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. Pilot stays in formation flys waypoints crashes........


- Winger shot down smashed into pieces on ground. FL then orders him to RTB http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

- My plane if I turn on auto pilot can never stay in formation lags 100m + behind his flight. And I check external view my pilot has flaps down etc. He puts them up catches up, then lowers flaps again.

- Out of ammo, in IL-2 when outa ammo You could Auto pilot back to base at full throttle (go get a drink etc). Not in Ace the auto pilot sticks behind the formation come hell or high water.

- Flak vs 10 Spit Vs @ 1500 - 2400m alt flew circles thru flack for mins on end in perfect formation after mission complete. Results 8 Vs shot down 2 damaged bad continue to fly circle in flak area till crash while trying to land infront of 20mm, 37mm, & 88mm flak positions from engine failures while being shot to pieces http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

- All my AI wingman go after my target that I have shot to hell. Ie, 3 Ta 152 chased an DB into ground that I had dropped @ 5000m. It had a wing blown off & was on fire, to boot. 1 victory for the loss of 3 wingman.

- AI wingman follow their lead thru all manouvers and ignore the enemy AC that gets between them and their leader. Leader toasted, enemy AC banks away unhurt.


Regards, John Waters

---------
Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.

------
"We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".

Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

Luftcaca
03-10-2004, 11:41 AM
good comments eum....Skulldude http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

keep it comming http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

LuftKuhMist
03-10-2004, 12:56 PM
Ya incult, can't you recognize the punisher!?

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

Luftcaca
03-14-2004, 01:46 PM
I'll bump this thread with another lil story

4 Yaks 7B, Im the flight leader

we spot 2 110'S

I want em both

I say to 2: cover me, he acknowledges and starts covering me

I say to 3 and 4: cover me

3 acknowledges, and 4 says UNABLE since 3 already asked him to cover him, imo

then what happens?

3 and 4 start to dive and attack the 110's even if 3 told me he would also cover me

great way to cover me, overzealous lil Yaker!!!

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

Luftcaca
03-17-2004, 11:41 AM
Mr Maddox

Now it is really the time for you to read that topic and pls at least tell us what you think

I am beginning to record trax that show the MAJOR flaws in your AI, if you need em or anything

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

RealHondo
03-18-2004, 06:00 AM
it would be really great if the ai pilots would bail out of burning planes. right now they just fly on and on until their plane bursts.

may be they should even bail if the plane loses integral parts of the fuselage. right now, the lead bomber tumbles down with one wing only, rest of his flight trying to stay in position on the way down... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif

Auf SimHQ unterwegs als Hondo

http://public.rz.fh-wolfenbuettel.de/~himstedm/extern/JG54.gif

VVS-Manuc
03-18-2004, 10:03 AM
let's hope that the NASA will not use this AI for the next flight to Mars http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif

PzKpfw
03-18-2004, 11:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VVS-Manuc:
let's hope that the NASA will not use this AI for the next flight to Mars http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/34.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROFLMAO. Seriously though I wish they would improve the AI, for ppl who don't play OL. I was shot down twice last night by my wingmen, who just opened fire on a target I was already shooting down.

Another problem with the AI is target fixation, they can be chaseing a 109 @ 600m distance when the 109 wingman literly drops in front of them, @ 20m & instead of switching targets, they ignore him.

Ie, I watched close to 7 Yak 1 chaseing a BF 109F4 when his wingman dropped down from altitude right in front of the lead Yak's they all ignored him to chase the original 109.

I also dont like the fact that their was no campaign tie into in ACE for any of the new AC except a single camp for the Ta 152. All this tells me is the add on was made for OL play.

I understand wanting to sell the BOE add on disk etc, but the new planes still should have tied into the ACE generator for those of us who bought ACE. We should be able to genetrate a US, British, etc campaign w/o haveing to buy BOE or DL a 3rd party program etc.


Regards, John Waters

---------
Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.

------
"We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".

Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

269GA-Maxmars
03-18-2004, 11:46 AM
Well, IIRC, the objects and maps of Normandy were done by the BOE team and released as a gift in a patch to the community to keep it in one place.. I think that buying BOE should be seen as a "thank you" to them (I did and it blasts!).. I don't think it's completely fair to ask Oleg to include something that would clash with BOE.

My sole opinion of course.

crazyivan1970
03-18-2004, 11:48 AM
I noticed that Veteran AI is much better in all aspects then any other level, including Ace.

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

LuftKuhMist
03-18-2004, 12:46 PM
Waht annoys me most is that AI behave like ******s but have unrealistic flight behavior to compensate. I have seen Yaks dive at 800 KM/H and recover very easily and without damage.

We always get dogfights where AI flies near stall speed when we pursue them and accelerates like a rocket when we overshoot them. They build up and loose speed in an impossible way, they don't suffer blackouts, they don't suffer compressibility, they don't E fight (this means that germans nearly always loose), they see through clouds, they steal kills, they don't check before firing...

My game experience is always spoiled by some ****** AI wingman. This is my main gripe with the game and I think it's important to be fixed. It's not a question of AI skill level, it's the AI in general.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

PzKpfw
03-18-2004, 01:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by maxmars:
Well, IIRC, the objects and maps of Normandy were done by the BOE team and released as a gift in a patch to the community to keep it in one place.. I think that buying BOE should be seen as a "thank you" to them (I did and it blasts!).. I don't think it's completely fair to ask Oleg to include something that would clash with BOE.

My sole opinion of course.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


And your entiteld to it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. I dont agree, the add on planes needed to fly BOE are not included with BOE.

these were 3rd party, one could then reason that BOE should have been released with all the ACE planes then, as their is no single player use to the new planes other then QMBs and 1 Ta 152 camp.

IMHO the Normandy map, objects you refer to as 'gifts' represent an advertisement for the BOE add on disk then.

Starshoys gen is already included in ACE, what they did was exclude the new AC from the ACE generator. Ie, you want to fly a US Brit, or German late war, aircraft, in a single player campaign then you have to buy BOE.

PPl would prolly have bought BOE regardless, with the skins etc, its just now you have no choice except chooseing betwen to 3rd part add ons, BOE, or DCG. And of course this is just my humble opinion as well http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif..


Regards, John Waters

---------
Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.

------
"We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".

Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

[This message was edited by PzKpfw on Thu March 18 2004 at 12:45 PM.]

plumps_
03-18-2004, 06:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>as their is no single player use to the new planes other then QMBs and 1 Ta 152 camp.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ever heard of the Full Mission Builder? USE YOUR IMAGINATION! Stop -- if that's too hard for you: Others will build campaigns which you only will need to download for free...

With ACES there are lots of possible new scenarios now which we didn't have before!

-----------------------------------
http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/stulogo-banner.jpg (http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/)

Kampagne für IL-2 1.2: I-16 - Kampf im Kaukasus (Deutsch) (http://home.arcor.de/rayluck/sturmovik/kampagne.html)

SeaFireLIV
03-18-2004, 06:34 PM
I now have AEP. And I have been flying Campaign. Personally I am more than a little angry, because i HAD THE IMPRESSION THAT THE AI WAS NO DIFFERENT OR WORSE. BUT IT IS NOT.

There has been some great improvements to the AI, which NOONE seems to want to mention. I am going to start a new thread detailing these positives. I will list the GOOD and BAD. But there is PLENTY OF GOOD!

I can`t believe you guys can be so misleading.

SeaFireLIV...

http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Spitfeur2.jpg
Achtung! IT`S HERE!

[This message was edited by SeaFireLIV on Thu March 18 2004 at 06:01 PM.]

PzKpfw
03-18-2004, 07:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Originally posted by plumps_:

Ever heard of the Full Mission Builder? USE YOUR IMAGINATION! Stop -- if that's too hard for you: Others will build campaigns which you only will need to download for free...


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope Plumps'ster never heard of FMB. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


Regards, John Waters

---------
Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.

------
"We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".

Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

LuftKuhMist
03-19-2004, 11:57 AM
Seafire, I don't see how AI is better. A simple example is that I continuously overpass luftwaffe planes. The energy advantage of those should be enough to make them hard to catch up.

The BF110 is really a dream to fly because the AI manages its energy so badly that the speed disadvantage is neglectable.

When I fight spitfires in FW190 all my mates are having a hard time while I always have the advantage. I can shot down 4 spits VERY easily but my wingmen can't even manage to get ONE down.

Sincerely there are no great changes and I have been shot down many times by my wingmen and believe me, it was NOT my fault.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

Luftcaca
03-19-2004, 12:18 PM
"I can`t believe you guys can be so misleading"

Why would we mislead peeps on purpose?There would be no point

Oh and Seafire, pls tell me about the things you think were improved since AEP

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

PzKpfw
03-19-2004, 12:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
I can`t believe you guys can be so misleading.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You'll find in life SF, that opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one.

In your opinion the AI may be the best thing since sliced bread etc. But it's obvious not everyone is going to agree with you. (imagine that).

As to why you believe their was some conspiracy to mislead you about the AI, etc, I have no clue. As to why you feel your better qualified to judge the AI then the rest of us whom have had ACE longer then you etc, I have no clue.

As to why, what you consider negative aspects of the AI, were discussed here, was this thread not made to discuss the AI and improvements?.

It's interesting that I observed, in your AI thread, that you appear to label anyone who does not share your opinion, on the AI being improved etc, is a 'whiner', who is trying to bad mouth ACE etc.

Which I find interesting as I don't recall anyone in this thread stateing they hated ACE etc.

.

Regards, John Waters

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Notice: Spelling mistakes left in for people who need to correct others to make their life fulfilled.

------
"We've got the finest tanks in the world. We just love to see the German Royal Tiger come up on the field".

Lt.Gen. George S. Patton, Jr. Febuary 1945.

[This message was edited by PzKpfw on Fri March 19 2004 at 12:07 PM.]

Luftcaca
03-21-2004, 11:49 AM
Good post!

and bump!

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

Luftcaca
03-24-2004, 10:53 AM
this should become the OFFICIAL AI thread from now on, instead of posting 125 differnets threads about the AI

Bump

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

PikeBishop
03-25-2004, 08:58 AM
One point I would like to raise about gunners.......I know that usually the guns are fixed on mounts and counterbalanced BUT I wondered how much the recoil puts one off their aim...especially the larger calibures.
Gunner bursts should be no more than a maximum of about 6 rounds I should think. (You know....the old Thompson swinging up and to the left when fired). When I have taken gunner positions using the mouse it does not seem right - too easy to hit. I assume that all these factors are considered when calibrating AI shots.

regards,

SLP

Luftcaca
03-28-2004, 12:08 PM
thx for your comments!

bump!

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

Luftcaca
04-01-2004, 10:03 AM
got shot down by a fella B-239 some days ago

BUMP http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

Orsonical
04-01-2004, 10:25 AM
Well i find the best way to get your own back on the AI is with all the settings to easy mode...after all , why should you be the only guy up there adhering to the laws of physics.


Oh yeah , you should be in an I15 with the AI flying Gladiator. Now thats fun !

(very funny sig luftaca http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )

Luftcaca
04-01-2004, 10:32 AM
lol thx buddy http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

yeah obviously the AI uses EASY MODE settings
so you just cant dive to escape a YAK like you would so agaisnt a human player.

another issue I'd like to mention (yet another one)

if Im number two and I leave the flight to go on my own, why are 5, 6, 7 and 8 following me??????

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

Orsonical
04-01-2004, 12:36 PM
Duh well anyway ya dummies...didnt you know its all down to how clever your PC is , mines quite clever but its sounds like you guys have stupid computers.

Clever computer = Clever AI
Stupid computer = Stupid AI

Here look , I made this graph to illustrate...

Luftcaca
04-06-2004, 11:57 AM
B-b-b-bump!!!

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst

LuftKuhMist
04-06-2004, 11:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Orsonical:
(very funny sig luftaca http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course it is funny, it was made by an expert jerk, me.

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/MOMS.gif http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/grab0004.jpg

Luftcaca
04-07-2004, 02:32 PM
this bump's for Seafire http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.ifrance.com/boussourir/luftcaca.jpg

Formerly ''known'' as Gunther Aeroburst