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View Full Version : Shinobi needs a tweek....



Tobias96716
05-17-2017, 02:36 AM
Ok so far today i have gotten Shinobi to prestige 1...and i see 2 huge tweeks that are needed. First off the lights feel a bit to fast.It feels like PK 2.0 with how fast the lights are. The 2nd is the health pool...Literally 2 over hands from any class takes us from 100 to death or 100 to about 10% left in the last bar. Hell i have been damn neat 1 shot with full health and the armor buff...Left me with a little less than 1 bar of health. Either buff the health or buff the passive defense we get. Also dont forget to tone down the light attacks a bit.

firehead2015
05-17-2017, 02:38 AM
This seems like a reasonable request. His lights are pretty fast considering that he gets 2 guaranteed if the first light hits. A small buff to his health does seem light a reasonable tradeoff.

Dizzy4213
05-17-2017, 02:41 AM
His Reflex Guard needs fixing. You can't block **** most of the time. I'm pretty sure it's unintentional. I don't see why his guard should deplete 3x faster than other assassins. The low health pool is already bad enough.

firehead2015
05-17-2017, 03:24 AM
Maybe his guard runs out so fast because the devs want Shinobi players to use his double dodge to avoid attacks?

CHawkins27
05-17-2017, 03:31 AM
Agreed on the health. I feel like the lights are matched to the current peacekeeper, maybe even slower. I think any more of a tweak on the speed would be actually too slow. I also feel like the dodge should have a hypershield. No point of dodging if they're guaranteed a guard break.

Dizzy4213
05-17-2017, 03:34 AM
Maybe his guard runs out so fast because the devs want Shinobi players to use his double dodge to avoid attacks?

Problem with that is, it cost a fair amount of stamina and you more often than not, get guard broken before you can finish the dash. I still don't think it's intentional. If it was, then surely it would be on his moveset?

Centurion seems far superior than Shinobi from what I've seen. Shinobi just gets destroyed in most games. Lowest HP out of all the heroes, gets punished extremely hard, and has an even worse Reflex Guard than other assassins making blocking a nightmare. Also, 1v2 is pretty much a death sentence because of it, never mind 1v4.

CHawkins27
05-17-2017, 03:37 AM
Problem with that is, it cost a fair amount of stamina and you more often than not, get guard broken before you can finish the dash. I still don't think it's intentional. If it was, then surely it would be on his moveset?

Centurion seems far superior than Shinobi from what I've seen. Shinobi just gets destroyed in most games. Lowest HP out of all the heroes, gets punished extremely hard, and has an even worse Reflex Guard than other assassins making blocking a nightmare. Also, 1v2 is pretty much a death sentence because of it, never mind 1v4.

This. Centurion got good health, stamina, and crazy damage + combos. Shinobi got low health, stamina, and damage.

Egotistic_Ez
05-17-2017, 03:42 AM
Yeah the guard time really feels like a bug. I'm OK with the lights though. It's not like PK light spam, it's an orochi confirm just from any angle. A shinobi that goes left then right doesn't feel as bad as PKL spam (at least atm, maybe when they get better I'll re-evaluate lol).

dekot11
05-17-2017, 03:48 AM
This. Centurion got good health, stamina, and crazy damage + combos. Shinobi got low health, stamina, and damage.

Centurion has less health than orochi. And people are going to tell you that ninja takes more skill so give it more time blah blah but I had a feeling centurion was going to be better. I don't think either of them are OP from what limited interaction I've had with them but the devs seem to have it in for the samurais. It's the only faction without a top tier character and zero talk about buffing any of them.

Dizzy4213
05-17-2017, 03:51 AM
Yeah the guard time really feels like a bug. I'm OK with the lights though. It's not like PK light spam, it's an orochi confirm just from any angle. A shinobi that goes left then right doesn't feel as bad as PKL spam (at least atm, maybe when they get better I'll re-evaluate lol).

Going left right actually messes up the light light as the second one is guaranteed if the first one hits. I agree it's nowhere near as bad as PK lights. It also does significantly less damage as well.

I really hope it's a bug because his Reflex Guard is driving me insane. It's so frustrating, especially when fighting more than one opponent. You more or less have to block at the same time you would go for a deflect.

SerArthur-Dayne
05-17-2017, 04:04 AM
Played shinobi now to lvl 30, and I dont think hes all that great tbh, think im gonna go with the Cent now. They said high risk high reward, but im not seeing his stregnths anywhere. Im usually in the top 2% with my K/D, but im not feelin it with him. I dont wanna prematurely suggest nerfs/buffs as I reckon the dust needs to settle, but my initial thoughs are;

--Pretty suprised by his low stam, thought he'd be a stam powerhouse considering the lowest health and weak attacks. But im often exhaused before ive finished one combo, so the "bouncing in-out" style dosent seem practical.
--That health just seems a bit too low. Its basically on the point that one mistake will get you killed if your enemy just get a single parry/ GB into a 2 hit combo. Usually your very first mistake is your last in a 1v2, even if youve spent 4 minutes chipping them down. What makes this even harder is your big damage move (the second heavy) locks you on spot for a legnthy exposed animation, and it just gets you mostly one shot by any bystander.
--Deflect seems fairly pointless on this guy. Theres just no way im risking attempting to deflect someone with the lowest healthpool going. For very little damage.
--Almost all of his in-out combos rely on your opponent being very bad at GBing and parrying. IF they arent, fighting enemies is like fighting The Nameless King with a toothpick.
--Revenge! Again pretty bad here. Got killed numerous times within less that a second after popping it with almost full health too. Spam zone while switching between both enimies quickly and hope to god you can stunlock two people at once.

On a positive; Its fun because cmon its a ninja! I think the reflex guard is interesting and adds a nice layer of depth, opening kick is cool and makes fights interesting both as attacker/ and on the recieving end because it changes the game from a turtle stalemate into dodges and positioning, and his GB potential is nice if you can catch some noobs.

Fun class to mess about with but im not convinced hes all that usefull when playing against competent players/ or especially when outnumbered. Pretty sure itll be shelfed in compedative.

Helnekromancer
05-17-2017, 04:12 AM
Getting this class to Rep 5 is going is going to be such a slog, this health pool is driving me insane. Getting 1 shotted by any type of bomb or projectile just makes me want to throw my controller and I'm usually very calm. :D

"Ready to fight this Valkyrie? Nope she 1 shotted you with a Javelin as soon as the match start".
"Want to run to A Flag and get your team out of breaking? Nope a Nail bomb insta kills you now wait for bleeding to tick."

Why am I so squishy a captain can take me out xD

Dizzy4213
05-17-2017, 04:22 AM
Getting this class to Rep 5 is going is going to be such a slog, this health pool is driving me insane. Getting 1 shotted by any type of bomb or projectile just makes me want to throw my controller and I'm usually very calm. :D

"Ready to fight this Valkyrie? Nope she 1 shotted you with a Javelin as soon as the match start".
"Want to run to A Flag and get your team out of breaking? Nope a Nail bomb insta kills you now wait for bleeding to tick."

Why am I so squishy a captain can take me out xD

The low HP is bad enough, but the Reflex Guard is completely killing it for me. I can't block ****, and a 1v2 is a death sentence for the poor Shinobi because of the horrible Reflex Guard. He's fun to play at first, but it becomes extremely frustrating soon after. Low health, deals little damage, barely any stamina, gets punished heavily, worse guard in the game.

Ranged GB and attack seem good at first but get countered easily and you get punished heavily for even attempting to use it. You also frequently hit your teammates, or better yet, grab them instead of the enemy. Centurion is an absolute monster on the other hand. Really wish I could turn back time so I could get my Steel back that I wasted on an outfit for the Shinobi.

RoosterIlluzion
05-17-2017, 05:38 AM
He is fast, and he is squishy. That's the trade-off. I saw a level 4 shinobi destroy a centurion in like 6 hits. GB, 3-hit combo, GB, 3 random hits... dead. He's Probably more powerful than the PK, and faster, with about 4 ways to throw or kick you into an environmental hazard, can teleport behind opponents for an easy attack just by parrying. I'd say he DOES NOT need any tweaks in his favor.

Tobias96716
05-17-2017, 06:24 AM
He is fast, and he is squishy. That's the trade-off. I saw a level 4 shinobi destroy a centurion in like 6 hits. GB, 3-hit combo, GB, 3 random hits... dead. He's Probably more powerful than the PK, and faster, with about 4 ways to throw or kick you into an environmental hazard, can teleport behind opponents for an easy attack just by parrying. I'd say he DOES NOT need any tweaks in his favor.

He is to squishy...No one should be dead in 2 normal heavy hits, and the light attacks are a little to fast. As far as teleporting we have to deflect...its not worth the risk of being 2 or 3 shot just to add a very weak bleed. At least know the hero before speaking on it. A good fix is slow the light attacks a bit and increase his health...A npc sergeant hits for 25% of your health...Also the ranged GB is not giving the guaranteed heavy attack...Is this working as intended?

RoosterIlluzion
05-17-2017, 06:56 AM
He is to squishy...No one should be dead in 2 normal heavy hits, and the light attacks are a little to fast. As far as teleporting we have to deflect...its not worth the risk of being 2 or 3 shot just to add a very weak bleed. At least know the hero before speaking on it. A good fix is slow the light attacks a bit and increase his health...A npc sergeant hits for 25% of your health...Also the ranged GB is not giving the guaranteed heavy attack...Is this working as intended?

Wow, season 2 dropped less than 24 hours ago and you think you know Shinobi? Sounds to me like you don't know how to use him if you're not at top 2%. OMG! 😢
Obviously you need to change your tactics with him. He doesn't need more health because of his attack style. He's supposed to be fast, git gud and learn how to play him.

Knight_Raime
05-17-2017, 07:39 AM
Disagree. I haven't played him myself. But I see the potential with him. I think the health is 100% appropriate. The kit is designed to be difficult and easily picked apart if you make a mistake. Just as the centurion demands your opponent to react properly or get destroyed. this stuff is moving us away from the defensive meta. and we don't want to make changes that makes things safer.

I hesitate to say much since I haven't touched him. But I vsed him a lot today. and the only tweak i'd be comfortable making at the moment is getting rid of the free heavy off of a kick. IMO the rest of his kit is flexible enough + having superior control over engagement distance + having light light in any direction more than makes up for his vulnerability.

megamasa94
05-17-2017, 09:47 AM
i dont think some ppl here understand how punishable shinobi is, and the healt tho..

DrinkinMyStella
05-17-2017, 10:00 AM
shinobi is fine, his lights are fast and his range is long but shinobi has a low health pool and can be punished if parried or CGB so that makes a balanced character, one mess up and your dead so its fair that he has fast attacks and a skilled moveset. everyone is forgetting he is not designed to block and he's defiantly not designed for ganking situations, he is fast for a reason, RUN when getting ganked. don't try to block because that mean death, use his double dodging and his dodge kick combo to your advantage keep the distance. also shinobi is made to use the environment, you can use the long rage GB to throw them behind you off a cliff or into spikes on walls etc.

CandleInTheDark
05-17-2017, 10:17 AM
Ok so far today i have gotten Shinobi to prestige 1...and i see 2 huge tweeks that are needed. First off the lights feel a bit to fast.It feels like PK 2.0 with how fast the lights are. The 2nd is the health pool...Literally 2 over hands from any class takes us from 100 to death or 100 to about 10% left in the last bar. Hell i have been damn neat 1 shot with full health and the armor buff...Left me with a little less than 1 bar of health. Either buff the health or buff the passive defense we get. Also dont forget to tone down the light attacks a bit.

I can't say I really mind the healthpool. The thing is it is what keeps the shinobi balanced (and I am playing as one currently mind, this isn't new classes are op whining). You get to dictate the terms of the fight, the whole style is meant to be about picking your battles and getting in and out with your deflect, your dodges, your backflip. Yes if someone catches hold of you then you are in a lot of trouble, but that is what makes you have to pick your battles and play to the character's strengths in mobility as opposed to standing and trading with them. I am quite liking the challenge of it.


shinobi is fine, his lights are fast and his range is long but shinobi has a low health pool and can be punished if parried or CGB so that makes a balanced character, one mess up and your dead so its fair that he has fast attacks and a skilled moveset. everyone is forgetting he is not designed to block and he's defiantly not designed for ganking situations, he is fast for a reason, RUN when getting ganked. don't try to block because that mean death, use his double dodging and his dodge kick combo to your advantage keep the distance. also shinobi is made to use the environment, you can use the long rage GB to throw them behind you off a cliff or into spikes on walls etc.

Exactly this, I can actually 1v3 with my peacekeeper, or could before season 2, not tried it with new gear yet, even with a minimum revenge build, all I had to do was block, pop revenge, knock someone over and kill them, kill a second, face the third 1v1 when revenge dropped. With shinobi you have to pick your battles wisely.

Tobias96716
05-17-2017, 06:06 PM
The health pool is to low. If everything a shinobi does is high risk high reward...But it seems as the reward part is missing. Ranged GB not only if the guard against it it leaves you vulnerable but they can block the follow up attack...That is High risk no reward...Also say you go for that ranged GB all they have to do is do ANY unblockable move or a move that has hyper armor or a lunge attack and guess what? It doesn't stop them. The only worth while High risk high reward is the attack and thats only if they are not looking at you. But as far as health goes once you get caught in a stagger, you are dead...The fixes are self explanatory

1) Increase the health pool by at least 1 bar. So we can at least be a more of a carboard toughness than wet paper.

2) Lower the light attack speed just a little because its pk prenerf 2.0 to where all i have to do is spam lights randomly to win.

3) Let the ranged GB give a free heavy like the normal GB, that will make it High risk high reward as well as allow us to actually get the combo off since as it stands now you cant.

These changes are what i feel is needed to make Shinobi a fun balanced class...Because its no fun to get 1 or 2 shotted from full health with armor because your health pool is just a fraction above a sergeant from the skirmish maps.