PDA

View Full Version : Hmm whats the fastest BF109



XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 03:07 PM
And most agile.
There are so many of them to choose from. Why did Germany create so many versions of them? Was it a design flaw?

=swiv=

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 03:07 PM
And most agile.
There are so many of them to choose from. Why did Germany create so many versions of them? Was it a design flaw?

=swiv=

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 04:05 PM
Fastest would be the K-4, the most agile would be the F2 or F4.

Why did they make so many of them? Ever checked the year they where build? The 109 was the main fighter in the Luftwaffe during ww2. Obviously they where upgraded/redesigned throughout the years with the Emil(E) being the first version that saw combat in ww2 and the K the last one.

<center> __________________________________________________ _________________________________________

http://members.chello.nl./~j.vandekerkhof5/f15.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 04:20 PM
Seems to me that the 109 series was developed w/ the western theater in mind. I'm only speculating and please correct me if I'm wrong. The Me series seems to, after '41, become better armed and faster at the expense of maneuverability. I wonder if this shift is to meet the threat of high altitude bombers. Speed and armament would be a major factor if you wanted to intercept a heavy allied bomber, while maneuverability would take a back seat.



<center> http://www.4yourfuture.net/handshake.gif


"Altitude, speed, maneuver, fire!"-The "formula of Terror" of Aleksandr Pokryshkin, Three times awarded the rank of Hero of the Soviet Union

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 04:26 PM
@Shockwave:

And there I was thinking that during Poland, France and the BOB the Dora model of the Bf-109 was still in use......

<p align="center">http://hometown.aol.de/Deathbrng/Sigfinal.jpg</p><p align="center">'Hmmm? I wonder what the red button is for........'</p><p align="center">HL Nick = BLUE_Schnitter</p>

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 04:31 PM
georgeo76 wrote:
- Seems to me that the 109 series was developed w/ the
- western theater in mind. I'm only speculating and
- please correct me if I'm wrong. The Me series seems
- to, after '41, become better armed and faster at the
- expense of maneuverability. I wonder if this shift
- is to meet the threat of high altitude bombers.
- Speed and armament would be a major factor if you
- wanted to intercept a heavy allied bomber, while
- maneuverability would take a back seat.
-
-
-
-

no need to correct oyu. they made them faster and added bigger guns to bring down bombers cause that was the main problem for germany in the air



2 things we need in FB:
The 110 and the desert!!!
http://exn.ca/news/images/1999/04/23/19990423-Me110coloursideMAIN.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 07:01 PM
Der_Schnitter_t wrote:
- @Shockwave:
-
- And there I was thinking that during Poland, France
- and the BOB the Dora model of the Bf-109 was still
- in use......
-

Yeah I should have made myself more clear. I was thinking more in FB terms but yes I know some Dora's where used in the invasion of Poland, France, Belgium, Holland and Luxemburg. But where they used in the BOB too? I guess they where taken from the training squadrons?

<center> __________________________________________________ _________________________________________

http://members.chello.nl./~j.vandekerkhof5/f15.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 08:47 PM
The K was the fastest Bf. 608km/hr at sea level and 727km/hr at 7500m. What it does in FB I don't know. Just bought it and waiting to upgrade my rig). The most agile was the F series.

Basically, why the BF-109 solderied on for so long was that the Nazis thought the war would be over soon. In fact, the luftwaffe high command put a stop on all development of aircraft that could not begin production in 6 months! The messerschmitt was a brilliant design for the mid-late thirties. the fact that it stayed relatively competitive by the war's end is proof of the brilliance of its design.

http://utenti.lycos.it/AEREOFAN/images/saetta.jpg

caccia buon!

<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_henry_blake.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 11:10 AM
The K4 was the fastest....



And it would be in FB as well if the FM were correct.



/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif




JG27_Arklight
"Taking out the garbage since release"

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 11:41 AM
K-14 was the fastest (not K-4).

The K-14 was first delivered 2 weeks before the end of the war.
It had a 4-bladed prop and the DB605L engine.

http://franz.lampl.bei.t-online.de/toryusig.jpg (http://www.chrissi007.de/jabog32)

Online unterwegs als I/JG68Toryu

Come As You Are !

http://www.jg68.de.vu

When once you have tasted flight,
you will always walk the earth
with your eyes turned skyward;
to where you have been
and to where you always want to return.

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 02:21 PM
Hmm and I thought I knew a bit around the 109´s. The K-14 I have never ever heard of. Thanks Bremspropeller for info.
Is there any images around of this plane? Was examples transferred to the UK/US for evaluation after the war like most other new types? Did it at all see any action?
Not critisising, just interested ..........

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 02:36 PM
The K14... some kind of myth- its possible that 2 of them where deliverd to the LW, but hard to find realy proofs for this...

The DB 605L was the 1st 2stage superchargerengine (all DB before were singlestage!!)
the only performancedata I ever read was 732km/h at 32000ft, but this was in a magazine without any source...

JG53 PikAs Abbuzze
I./Gruppe

http://www.jg53-pikas.de/
http://mitglied.lycos.de/p123/Ani_pikasbanner_langsam.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 02:52 PM
I read an article that said the G10 was the fastest. The F4 is easily the most agile. For speed, punch, and agility, IMHO the G6A/S is the bomb diggity. It turns like a bat out of hell, its fast, and you get a Mk108.

I love it. I crash alot with it too from the blackouts, lol.

http://www.stuartairshow.com/images/p51mustangs.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 03:19 PM
The F series also needed fuselage strengthening for the transition to the G. They had a nasty habit of shearing a wing at the root - the tradeoff for greater manouverability.

This consolidation also added to the weight of the G.

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 03:31 PM
If I recall correctly it was the tail section that was suffering some catastrophic failures. The added vibration of the 605 caused that. Easily fixed by some airframe strengthening.



_______________________________
Hauptmann Jochen "Heidi" Heiden
Jagderband 44
www.JagdVerband44.com (http://www.JagdVerband44.com)

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 03:36 PM
Bremspropeller wrote:
- K-14 was the fastest (not K-4).
-
- The K-14 was first delivered 2 weeks before the end
- of the war.
- It had a 4-bladed prop and the DB605L engine.
-
The K-14 was not faster than the K-4. The K-14 could attain airspeeds over 450mph over 35000ft. Since when did it have a 4 bladed prop?

http://utenti.lycos.it/AEREOFAN/images/saetta.jpg

caccia buon!

<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_henry_blake.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 03:42 PM
The large number of upgrades to the 109 was a result of the failure of the Luftwaffe technical office to replace the aircraft completely.

By 1943 or so, everyone knew it was essentially an outdated design in need of replacement, but this is far easier said than done--especially since the Luftwaffe high command was a mess. So, like many other German WWII planes (Bf110, Ju88, etc.) it was simply updated. It was always an effective plane, but for every enhancement that came along, there were performance tradeoffs.

The book "Men of the Luftwaffe" discusses this issue thoroughly.

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 03:59 PM
I don't recall it ever having a four-bladed prop..




_______________________________
Hauptmann Jochen "Heidi" Heiden
Jagderband 44
www.JagdVerband44.com (http://www.JagdVerband44.com)

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 04:07 PM
it give k4 with db605db and db605dc

db605db is with b4 87 octan fuel (1800ps)

db605dc is with c3 100 octan fuel (2000ps)

russia has she test k4 with 720km/h as she capture at prussia

many test from germans was close russia test

look of last key

with 2000ps has she 603km/h sealevel speed and 727km/h topseeed

1800ps 580km/h sealevel and 710km/h topspeed



Message Edited on 08/04/0307:07PM by Skalgrim

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 04:09 PM
We should have it modelled with a DC motor. All the Russian planes have the best that they can have... why can't we?




_______________________________
Hauptmann Jochen "Heidi" Heiden
Jagderband 44
www.JagdVerband44.com (http://www.JagdVerband44.com)

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 04:20 PM
k4 with db605db is only 5km/h faster as g10 with same engine and climb same


when oleg will make difference, is better give k4 db605dc

especially climb and accelerate is with 200 ps more better,that are 11% more trust

from mw50 109 was certain g6/as the agile bird,
right call is g6/asm when she use mw50

m named metanol

only 75kg more weigh as g2 but 325ps more power

better turn as g2 through better trust/weigh ratio



JV44Heiden wrote:
- We should have it modelled with a DC motor. All the
- Russian planes have the best that they can have...
- why can't we?
-
-
-
-
-
- _______________________________
- Hauptmann Jochen "Heidi" Heiden
- Jagderband 44
- www.JagdVerband44.com (http://www.JagdVerband44.com)

Message Edited on 08/05/0310:49AM by Skalgrim

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 04:25 PM
Abbuzze wrote:
- The K14... some kind of myth- its possible that 2 of
- them where deliverd to the LW, but hard to find
- realy proofs for this...
-
- The DB 605L was the 1st 2stage superchargerengine
- (all DB before were singlestage!!)
- the only performancedata I ever read was 732km/h at
- 32000ft, but this was in a magazine without any
- source...
-
- JG53 PikAs Abbuzze
- I./Gruppe


Mind if I help you out? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.x-plane.org/users/isegrim/SPEED%20of%20K-4%20and%20quasiK-14.jpg


I believe It shows an early K-4 with a DB605DM engine w/o menthanol (as GM-1 is used instead in tank), and another with DB605 but also with methanol.

The basic K-4 was better than the K-14 at all normal altitudes, up to 7500m. The K-4`s DB605DC had 2000HP at SL, and the K-14`s DB605L had only 1700HP, probably because it had to drive a second supercharger stage as well, which paid off only above certain altitude.

It seems it was usual German practice to build fighters for the "normal" altitude ranges, where most fights happened ("Normaljaeger"), and another highly specialized optimized for high alt performance ("Hoehenjaeger")/


It`s approx. 734kph at 11km for a clean one at max. power. I also have another chart from GLC, which shows K-14 armed with additional 2xMK108s inside the wings, max. speed being 725kph.

I believe 2 prototypes of K-4 airframes with DB605L engines saw(?) some service in czech airfields. I remember seeing some picture for a 4-bladed prop somewhere, on some 109 site I believe.

http://www.x-plane.org/users/isegrim/FB-desktopweb.jpg
'Only a dead Indianer is a good Indianer!'

Vezérünk a Bátorság, K*sérµnk a Szerencse!
(Courage leads, Luck escorts us! - Historical motto of the 101st Puma Fighter Regiment)

Flight tests and other aviation performance data: http://www.pbase.com/isegrim

XyZspineZyX
08-04-2003, 06:04 PM
Keep in mind Isegrim that this is not a test report just an estimated performance graph.

Butch