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Mudflaaaps
05-11-2017, 08:34 PM
Why people complain about the raider is beyond me, he's a very viable hero.
I don't particularly like the raider nor do I dislike him, he's about average. He already has some great mix ups, easy unblockables, he can drain your stamina in an instant, he can feint literally everything, why does he need a buff?

This is another example of how people cry about their character not being the absolute best so they get buffed. Lawbringer was a fair challenge before, now he's a God.

After reading the patch notes, its clear that raider will be an absolute nightmare now, instead of just a reasonable challenge.

So, I would like an orochi buff. He's fine already and I have a 97% win duel ratio with him, BUT he's not the best. I want him to be totally unblockable and have no stamina penalties please Ubi. Thanks in advance *facepalm*

Hillbill79
05-11-2017, 08:39 PM
Because of data.

He is the most under performing character... he cant even get a free heavy off of a gb.

Once they remove the unblockable, unparryable unlock, hes buggered without a buff

Mudflaaaps
05-11-2017, 08:43 PM
Only because people don't understand how to use him. I tried him once and won 7 duels in a row. 7!

Not all heros get a free heavy off a GB, conqueror doesn't. Does he get a buff? No, he got a nerf.

Their 'data' doesn't really make sense. Just because a character is played less than others (more OP ones) he needs a buff? No sense there. He's already a very viable and dangerous character in the hands of anyone with a tiny bit of skill.

razabak10mm
05-11-2017, 08:45 PM
After reading the patch notes, its clear that raider will be an absolute nightmare now, instead of just a reasonable challenge.


Good, good. Let your hate flow through you...I feel my Raider getting stronger by the moment.

Lyskir
05-11-2017, 08:46 PM
he has no 50/50 so he will be mid tier even with this buffs
he has no opener
he has only slow attacks even light attack is slow
he has only heavy feint into zone or heavy feint into dash top light, both very obvious
he has no garanteed dmg after GB only zone that takes half his stamina or a light lol, He is dependent on his surroundings for dmg on GB
he has the slowest guard change speed ingame

so yes he needs that buffs also kensei, nobushi and orochi need at least a little bit of dev love

Mudflaaaps
05-11-2017, 08:50 PM
I disagree. He's not a bad character at all, he has plenty of mix ups and free hits.

Kensei does NOT need a buff.
I main kensei and he's one of the lower performing characters, but he's still a monster when used properly. Same with orochi.

Nobushi? Ha. Nobushi needs a nerf if anything. Ridiculously overpowered zone attack, lightning quick attacks, again she's a tank when used properly.

Mudflaaaps
05-11-2017, 08:51 PM
I have news for you, if you think raider needs a buff and you main him, you're clearly not very good. Sorry pal.

Lyskir
05-11-2017, 08:52 PM
Good, good. Let your hate flow through you...I feel my Raider getting stronger by the moment.

yeah I have the feeling there is a bit of hate towards raider xD

Raider main for life!

Haemmerst0rm
05-11-2017, 08:53 PM
Raider needs a heavy on guardbreak. I dont see why ubi wont implement that come on!

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 08:54 PM
Why people complain about the raider is beyond me, he's a very viable hero.
I don't particularly like the raider nor do I dislike him, he's about average. He already has some great mix ups, easy unblockables, he can drain your stamina in an instant, he can feint literally everything, why does he need a buff?

This is another example of how people cry about their character not being the absolute best so they get buffed. Lawbringer was a fair challenge before, now he's a God.

After reading the patch notes, its clear that raider will be an absolute nightmare now, instead of just a reasonable challenge.

So, I would like an orochi buff. He's fine already and I have a 97% win duel ratio with him, BUT he's not the best. I want him to be totally unblockable and have no stamina penalties please Ubi. Thanks in advance *facepalm*

So I'll explain why he was bad and let's try having an actual conversation without name calling.

He has 1 unblockable that's slow, highly telegraphed, and uses up half of his stamina. It's incredibly useful if the opponent is out of stamina but that's really the only time because you can use it for mixup games.

The opponent has to guess if you are going to cancel or if you are going to let it go. If he guesses wrong he will either get parried and fall down or take the unblockable to the face. If it's the former than you will be stuck in another 50/50. This is where the raider shines but he has to get them low enough for this. The opponent can also dodge everything I said but if you know this you can cancel into gb and throw them on the ground to start it up again.

When you say he can drain your stamina in a instant I'm assuming you are talking about the knee after he throws you into a wall. The problem is it doesnt completely drain stamina no matter how little stamina the target has, it will always stop at about 20% on the hit and will regenerate during the animation so when all is said and done the target is probably at about 30-40 of max stamina. Most people take this time to turtle up and get stam back and unfortunately this was also a huge stamina penalty to the raider so there were no real ways to follow up without exhausting yourself anyway. All you got was a guaranteed light and now both of you are low on stam.

You said he can feint everything which is not really true. He can feint his heavies which is something everyone can do. If you mean can soft feint his initial heavy into stun tap well that's really all that he has in terms of his feint game.

Those were his only real strengths, his stunning tap mixup is incredibly risky. It's 18 frames long, that's a pretty long time and if it gets parried the opponent gets a free heavy/gb. His lights are all slow and so are his heavies. He was far from being great and after this he still will be midtier

Lyskir
05-11-2017, 08:54 PM
I disagree. He's not a bad character at all, he has plenty of mix ups and free hits.

Kensei does NOT need a buff.
I main kensei and he's one of the lower performing characters, but he's still a monster when used properly. Same with orochi.

Nobushi? Ha. Nobushi needs a nerf if anything. Ridiculously overpowered zone attack, lightning quick attacks, again she's a tank when used properly.

Nobushi overpowerd? ........wow... ok i have to say goodbye

Mudflaaaps
05-11-2017, 08:59 PM
Bye then.

Netcode_err_404
05-11-2017, 09:03 PM
Is it needed ? No.

Like every buffs nerfs they have done until now.

There is a major problem, which is the defensive meta.

So first you fix the turtling THEN youbuffs and nerfs each charater. What they are doing is the exact opposite, they are nerfing classes with a meta still top health, they are adding MORE characters, and then they probably will nerf the turtling.

That will be cancer because they will face the fact some classes will become useless again because another kind of meta will rise.

Mudflaaaps
05-11-2017, 09:09 PM
Can soft feint every light into a stunning tap, every heavy like other characters, can feint unblockable. That's every move.

There's no point in discussing which moves of his aren't good, because you could argue 5/12 of the current characters have useless moves and they are STILL viable in the game.

Yeah, he's lower tier. Because other characters are better. No one is denying that. But is that reason enough to give him all these buffs? If they keep buffing everyone who's 'lower tier' then what happens when everyone's extremely good? Buff the top tier ones?

I think he needed a small buff. But what he's getting is waaay too much, like lawbringer.

Take kensei. He was alright, not terrible but not amazing. He needed a SMALL buff, so they did that. Where would you put him now in relation to the others, because I main him and I can slaughter everyone bar good peacekeepers. It's all relative is what I'm saying, just because not everyone is amazing with raider does not mean he needs a huge buff.

WoodDaGawd
05-11-2017, 09:11 PM
I have a 97% win duel ratio with him,

I wish they would add disconnect rates to stats. I'm sure ubi could easily implement this feature

KotoKuraken
05-11-2017, 09:17 PM
Just because you're good with a character doesn't make it OP. If you have trouble facing Nobushi, that's your personal weakness. If you're good with Raider, that's your personal strength

Mudflaaaps
05-11-2017, 09:21 PM
Me too, then mine would look better compared to everyone else's.

cragar212
05-11-2017, 09:24 PM
Damn you sound like you may be the best raider in the world with a 97% win rate.

You should really enter a tournament this weekend with you raider. Make a few hundred bucks redesign the meta of FH. Easy peazy amirite?

Mudflaaaps
05-11-2017, 09:24 PM
That's exactly my point!
Everyone plays differently, everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Raider CAN be used extremely well, but because he isn't easily mastered like peacekeeper for example, people cry and he gets buffed.

Also worth noting that just because some characters are better for pro playing (because they're better turtlers), doesn't mean EVERY character that isn't is weak and needs a buff.

Netcode_err_404
05-11-2017, 09:27 PM
That's exactly my point!
Everyone plays differently, everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Raider CAN be used extremely well, but because he isn't easily mastered like peacekeeper for example, people cry and he gets buffed.

Also worth noting that just because some characters are better for pro playing (because they're better turtlers), doesn't mean EVERY character that isn't is weak and needs a buff.

Especially if you are planning to fix the current meta. But then they are adding another turtle character

Mudflaaaps
05-11-2017, 09:28 PM
If you actually read what I said properly instead of getting bit chy, I said my orochi has a 97% duel win rate.

Raider wouldn't win any tournaments. Not because he's weak, because people such as peacekeeper and warlord are too strong. That says to me that they need nerfing, not raider needs buffing...

Mudflaaaps
05-11-2017, 09:31 PM
Mate they'll never fix the turtle meta properly. A good defense is the best offense, they've taken that REALLY literally. I just hope centurion is an absolute God, because if tons of people play as him they won't nerf him right? Like warden or warlord? Right.

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 09:36 PM
Can soft feint every light into a stunning tap, every heavy like other characters, can feint unblockable. That's every move.

There's no point in discussing which moves of his aren't good, because you could argue 5/12 of the current characters have useless moves and they are STILL viable in the game.

Yeah, he's lower tier. Because other characters are better. No one is denying that. But is that reason enough to give him all these buffs? If they keep buffing everyone who's 'lower tier' then what happens when everyone's extremely good? Buff the top tier ones?

I think he needed a small buff. But what he's getting is waaay too much, like lawbringer.

Take kensei. He was alright, not terrible but not amazing. He needed a SMALL buff, so they did that. Where would you put him now in relation to the others, because I main him and I can slaughter everyone bar good peacekeepers. It's all relative is what I'm saying, just because not everyone is amazing with raider does not mean he needs a huge buff.

He cannot soft feint his lights. Your right about most characters having completely useless moves but many of them have something to make up for it. Raider really doesn't have anything going for him. Yes that's what devs do to lower tier characters, they buff them so they are closer to the rest of the cast. That's what balancing is.

No game is balanced but they devs usually try to get it close as they can. That's why you aren't seeing buffs go to warlord, warden, or pk. It's apparent that they are already strong. The point of buffs and nerfs is to balance a game, so if everyone is extremely strong then they wouldn't need to make any more adjustments so they would just stop.

Kensei is still low to mid tier. Here's the thing tiers matter less and less the farther down you are in skill level. This is not me insulting your skill but what I'm saying is that this game has low skill ceiling so no matter how good you are at a certain point it won't make up the power gap between the characters. Some characters are clearly better than others as you just said so what's wrong with trying to make them so they are pretty close to being good? By the way I'll be on in at 6pm pacific if you still want to duel.

Knight_Raime
05-11-2017, 09:36 PM
All you really have to do is look at the top 3 heros in the game. and you have your answer.
Raider wasn't bad. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't ever receive buffs.

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 09:46 PM
If you actually read what I said properly instead of getting bit chy, I said my orochi has a 97% duel win rate.

Raider wouldn't win any tournaments. Not because he's weak, because people such as peacekeeper and warlord are too strong. That says to me that they need nerfing, not raider needs buffing...

But he is weak though you have to look at it comparatively. Lets make this as simple as possible and say for honor only has 3 characters. Warlord, orochi, and raider. Now it should be obvious where everyone falls. Warlord is s tier, orochi A, and raider B. By comparison raider is weak. It would be better in this scenario to buff raider than it would be to nerf warlord at least in my opinion. I would think it would make more sense to have only 1 character that has an advantage 2 than it is to have 2 characters that have an advantage over 1.

Djebeo
05-11-2017, 09:55 PM
I think this buff is very well done and balanced.

To the people claiming that he should get a heavy off gb: you are wrong, that would be a major balancing issue. Due to his gb/dodge mechanics, Raider can reliably gb most moves that are normally safer. His heavies do a lot of damage.
Zone is guaranteed of a gb against non assassins. Sure, it costs a lot of stam, but has enough damage to finish the last bar. And now with the +10 stam, I think you can from full stam go zone feint into gb into zone without getting exhausted.
A free heavy off gb would be way too op in his kit.

Also remember that his unique gb properties make him immune to most of the 50/50s in the game, and preemptive dodge is almost 100% safe on the raider.

Contrary to what people like to say, Raider has a decent opener, which is zone mixup. It was already good enough with zone feint into gb, now you will also be able to zone soft cancel into tap.

Raider has very slow heavies, which is actually better than slow heavies, because it often toys with the opponents parry timing. Ask any raider main how many side heavies he got like that.

So yeah, I am one of those that were thinking Raider was already very viable. On paper, they buffed him in the area where he was really lacking, making him more interesting without breaking him. Obviously we will have to see it in game before saying anything definitive.

Mudflaaaps
05-11-2017, 10:09 PM
Well, you've actually made a good point. I'll agree with that for the most part. I still think he'll jump straight to the top as lawbringer has done, but we'll see.

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 10:10 PM
I think this buff is very well done and balanced.

To the people claiming that he should get a heavy off gb: you are wrong, that would be a major balancing issue. Due to his gb/dodge mechanics, Raider can reliably gb most moves that are normally safer. His heavies do a lot of damage.
Zone is guaranteed of a gb against non assassins. Sure, it costs a lot of stam, but has enough damage to finish the last bar. And now with the +10 stam, I think you can from full stam go zone feint into gb into zone without getting exhausted.
A free heavy off gb would be way too op in his kit.

Also remember that his unique gb properties make him immune to most of the 50/50s in the game, and preemptive dodge is almost 100% safe on the raider.

Contrary to what people like to say, Raider has a decent opener, which is zone mixup. It was already good enough with zone feint into gb, now you will also be able to zone soft cancel into tap.

Raider has very slow heavies, which is actually better than slow heavies, because it often toys with the opponents parry timing. Ask any raider main how many side heavies he got like that.

So yeah, I am one of those that were thinking Raider was already very viable. On paper, they buffed him in the area where he was really lacking, making him more interesting without breaking him. Obviously we will have to see it in game before saying anything definitive.

His side heavy does the same damage as orochis top heavy so I don't think it's out of line for him to have a free GB off of heavy. His zone into gb mixup is risky and reactable. If they do parry you are completely out of stam. Having slower heavies might be beneficial on people at lower levels but not much at higher. At a certain point can just stop attempting parrys and block if you keep going that route even if they aren't figuring out the parry timing on them. I will say that I forgot about him having the unique ability to dodge the 50/50 gbs. Indeed is a powerful defense mechanic but he was near the bottom before the buff and he will still only be mid after it.

Mudflaaaps
05-11-2017, 10:12 PM
He can feint left or right light into top stunning tap.

I see your point, but I disagree. If 3 characters are above 9 others, buffing those 9 (or some of them and leaving the others in the dust) is the wrong way to go about balancing. Now if they made it their priority to get everyone on a reasonably level playing field, I'd be totally supportive of that. I just don't like seeing already average characters jump to unstoppable gods.

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 10:15 PM
Well, you've actually made a good point. I'll agree with that for the most part. I still think he'll jump straight to the top as lawbringer has done, but we'll see.

lol I won't get into LB being overpowered again. It's obvious he falls below warlord warden and pk. I personally think he sits somewhere around the same place as shugo and valk. So I think at best you could argue he's the 4th best character in the game and at worst the 6th. I wouldn't call that overpowered but many do I guess.

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 10:21 PM
He can feint left or right light into top stunning tap.

I see your point, but I disagree. If 3 characters are above 9 others, buffing those 9 (or some of them and leaving the others in the dust) is the wrong way to go about balancing. Now if they made it their priority to get everyone on a reasonably level playing field, I'd be totally supportive of that. I just don't like seeing already average characters jump to unstoppable gods.

He can only feint his heavies into stunning tap, not his lights.

I realize this is still a matter of opinion but if you look at the buffs so far none of them are really unstoppable. Everyone who has been buffed (lb, kensei, valk, zerk, and orochi) are still far below warden warlord and pk. It seems like that is they're priority to get everyone on a level playing field the best characters (warden warlord and pk) have received nerfs. Yeah they are incremental but it's better than what they did to conqueror. I know your stance on LB so even if we called him an unstoppable god that's still only 1 out of 5 characters that they have buffed that went overboard. Not that bad of a record

Mudflaaaps
05-11-2017, 10:21 PM
Eh, I'd rather fight a good warlord or warden than a good lawbringer. Hell I'd rather fight a good warlord than a bad lawbringer haha.
I will be on at that time btw, a few hours from now right? If I see you on I'll invite you

Antonioj26
05-11-2017, 10:24 PM
Eh, I'd rather fight a good warlord or warden than a good lawbringer. Hell I'd rather fight a good warlord than a bad lawbringer haha.
I will be on at that time btw, a few hours from now right? If I see you on I'll invite you

Well I have some bad news for you then, I main LB lol. I'm also pretty good with raider, warlord, and shugo too though

Mudflaaaps
05-11-2017, 10:39 PM
Here's an idea, for some variation. 3 games, anyone you like, but different each time.
I main kensei, orochi, conqueror (poorly) and peacekeeper.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-12-2017, 08:47 AM
Can soft feint every light into a stunning tap, every heavy like other characters, can feint unblockable. That's every move.


Yeah, you can stop the ******** about being "uber OP with raider now".

The funny thing is that I cannot find your profile on fhtracker.

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 09:01 AM
Yeah, you can stop the ******** about being "uber OP with raider now".

The funny thing is that I cannot find your profile on fhtracker.

Sweaty_mudflaps

Him and I dueled today and it's apparent he's not a bad player, definitely above average. So when he says things like this I'm confused. his entire demeanor during the fights and inbetween rounds in chat are night and day compared to the posts he makes here. I'm not at all saying that he's a different person but it almost feels like it. Either way I found him to be a pleasant to play against and a good sport. Also mostly plays low tier characters and makes them seem viable. I just find it odd when he makes statements like this one or when he claimed prebuff LB had a vortex and gb after shove couldn't be cgb.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-12-2017, 09:21 AM
Sweaty_mudflaps


https://fhtracker.com/profile/psn/Sweaty_Mudflaps/heroes

Thanks.

And he has absolutely nothing in his raider. His playtime on Raider is a mere 2m55s.

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 09:26 AM
https://fhtracker.com/profile/psn/Sweaty_Mudflaps/heroes

Thanks.

And he has absolutely nothing in his raider. His playtime on Raider is a mere 2m55s.

Meh that doesn't prove anything he did say he only played 7 duels and that could be exaggerated in the mind without consciously doing so. Could have a second profile as well, I play on my wife's and sometimes on mine so that's another possibility.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-12-2017, 09:28 AM
Meh that doesn't prove anything he did say he only played 7 duels and that could be exaggerated in the mind without consciously doing so. Could have a second profile as well, I play on my wife's and sometimes on mine so that's another possibility.

Well, I stopped taking him seriously right in his first post when he said that LB is now "a God", go figure.

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 09:33 AM
Well, I stopped taking him seriously right in his first post when he said that LB is now "a God", go figure.

Everyone has biases towards the classes they have trouble with. Look at his duel record. It's on the higher end of others I've seen here. He knows how to fight which is what's so puzzling to me. How can he say the things he's saying but still win far more than he loses? It's a mystery.

Herbstlicht
05-12-2017, 10:04 AM
I don't main Raider, i am rather bad with him. I like fighting him, because most fights are rather cool. The upcoming buffs seem fine. Raider has a lot of style. Feinting his heavys into the tap isn't only a rather realistic - and somewhat dirty - move, but also will put his opponents more on the toes.

To the folks like mudaflaps: not saying you are a bad player. But from Kensei perspective, surely, the Raider seems rather fine. Oh and if you do have trouble against Nobushi as Kensei ... well, a good, and bad message. I am sure Nobushi will see some improvements. But i guess Kensei might do so too.

Remember the stream - warlord if fine. If others aren't where he is, they would prefer buffs over nerfs. Though it may take some time, more balance is on it's way. Oh, and guard change speed will further buff raider, nobushi, shugi and lawbro. Yay!

CoyoteXStarrk
05-12-2017, 10:37 AM
Everytime Flaaps makes a thread I expect some pretty ridiculous stuff, but this is just dumb lol


The Raider is in DESPERATE need of love. The experience of the playerbase and the data from the Devs trumps your Feelings lol

S0Mi_xD
05-12-2017, 10:57 AM
Only because people don't understand how to use him. I tried him once and won 7 duels in a row. 7!

Not all heros get a free heavy off a GB, conqueror doesn't. Does he get a buff? No, he got a nerf.

Their 'data' doesn't really make sense. Just because a character is played less than others (more OP ones) he needs a buff? No sense there. He's already a very viable and dangerous character in the hands of anyone with a tiny bit of skill.

o.O ? do you ever played Conqu?
He gets a Heavy after a GB, thats his biggest source of DMG xD.

Yes, Conque needs something else than just his shildbash and his safe GBs after a heavy block.


About Raider, i agree with you that he was a viable hero from the beginning, the problem is that he is very hard to play, because his safe heavies are after a Lightparry and after a perfect timed wallcombo.
This buff is good for him, it doesn't overpower him, it just gives him more possibilities to mix up his attacks, a bigger variaty.

And thats what the Conque does need aswell.

WFL_M4sT3R_
05-12-2017, 11:06 AM
One of the Heroes thats is almost impossible to open, same like Warden, 90% of attacks blocked, head smash etc, this hero can only get nerf to be honest, one thing is to love your main, other thing is reality dude.

razabak10mm
05-12-2017, 03:50 PM
Everytime Flaaps makes a thread I expect some pretty ridiculous stuff, but this is just dumb lol

Aww comon, let him have his fun. All this Raider hate just fuels the fire man.

When the patch hits and the salt starts flowing I'ma be like: "POWER!!! Unlimited POWER!!"

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e_DqV1xdf-Y

G0dzBlaze
05-12-2017, 07:27 PM
Once the guard stance speed is the same on every heroes , Fast attacks character will get a kick in the nuts.

On this note Conqueror need a rework badly. He is the most boring heroes to fight against and it seem like the most boring to play.

Mudflaaaps
05-12-2017, 07:30 PM
Let's clarify;

I duelled with Antonio26 last night, it was a great little match up and was enjoyed immensely. One of our matches was orochi vs raider (me as orochi). I lost.
Not because I'm bad, because raider IS ALREADY A GOOD CHARACTER IN THE HANDS OF A SKILLED PLAYER.

To me, that's enough to claim he doesn't need a buff.

I played kensei and lost, do I demand a buff? No, because again, he can be good in the hands of a SKILLED player.

Raiders buffs are totally unnecessary and whilst they may not make him top tier, they are unnecessary and will result in an easily mastered character. Isn't that why everyone complains about PK?

Kweassa, you talk some serious sh it. What platform are you on? I'd enjoy seeing your scrub tactics.

kweassa1917
05-12-2017, 07:32 PM
Everyone has biases towards the classes they have trouble with. Look at his duel record. It's on the higher end of others I've seen here. He knows how to fight which is what's so puzzling to me. How can he say the things he's saying but still win far more than he loses? It's a mystery.

Does the record show how many times he's dropped before the match was concluded?

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 07:46 PM
Does the record show how many times he's dropped before the match was concluded?

No but I can tell the way he plays he's not that kind of guy. He's very good, I'm willing to bet he would beat the majority of the players that come here. I still disagree with him for the most part but I respect his skills and I understand his perspective. He's a little rough around the edges though lol.

bzorkic81
05-12-2017, 08:32 PM
Let's clarify;

I duelled with Antonio26 last night, it was a great little match up and was enjoyed immensely. One of our matches was orochi vs raider (me as orochi). I lost.
Not because I'm bad, because raider IS ALREADY A GOOD CHARACTER IN THE HANDS OF A SKILLED PLAYER.

To me, that's enough to claim he doesn't need a buff.

I played kensei and lost, do I demand a buff? No, because again, he can be good in the hands of a SKILLED player.

Raiders buffs are totally unnecessary and whilst they may not make him top tier, they are unnecessary and will result in an easily mastered character. Isn't that why everyone complains about PK?

Kweassa, you talk some serious sh it. What platform are you on? I'd enjoy seeing your scrub tactics.

Assuming you turtled, how did he even open you up?

I gave a rep 6 raider and rep 13 valk. Started with raider. My gameplay is 5 times easier with the valk. I'm not sure I'm switching back even post buffs. Sure, you CAN do well with him right now, but you have to work twice as hard... well why would I? It's a game, I want to have fun... not a job where I work the hardest way possible.

With two new hero's, he'll be high mid tier, certainly nothing to cry about BEFORE you see it in action.

Sheesh, when did we get this soft as gamers that we cry before things happen.

Mudflaaaps
05-12-2017, 08:33 PM
Conqueror does NOT get a heavy off a GB. He doesn't get a heavy off parry either. He also doesn't get a guaranteed heavy after the first shoulder bash. I know conqueror mate and you are not correct in any way.

razabak10mm
05-12-2017, 08:35 PM
To me, that's enough to claim he doesn't need a buff

So you lost to a Raider and that's why he doesn't need a buff. Mmmmk.

Keep the salt coming man. I'm enjoying it, and counting down the days till patch day. It's gonna be LEGENDARY.

Antonio, I hope you did us Raiders proud and threw in a bunch of axe humps after your victory.

Mudflaaaps
05-12-2017, 08:37 PM
What are you even talking about? I do not turtle, I play offensively. It was actually Antonio that took advantage of the turtle meta but he's not obviously a terrible player so I wouldn't even mention it.

No-one is crying about anything, I just don't see why raider should get a buff despite being a perfectly viable character and as of yet, no-one has given any real counter argument besides 'I'm not good with raider so he needs a buff'.

Mudflaaaps
05-12-2017, 08:41 PM
The fact that you use the word salt and spam axe humps shows me that you're a poor player with zero etiquette, I wouldn't worry pal you'll still be awful after the patch.

I lost to raider as orochi. I'd say orochi is generally worse than raider, similar speed, exact same guard change speed, but a lack of openers, low damage and no mix ups.
Therefore, judging by the logic here, he obviously needs a buff too.

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 08:54 PM
I'll agree I'm probably the more defensive between the two of us. I respect mud so I don't throw out axe humps. Don't get me wrong I'll throw them out if I see scrub play but mud is far from a scrub. Mud conq does get a heavy but it has to be IMMEDIATELY after the gb. Any sort of hesitation and you will be blocked

Mudflaaaps
05-12-2017, 09:02 PM
I've played conqueror enough to know that it's not guaranteed. It's mostly connection based, but I very VERY rarely get a heavy after GB. No conqueror with any sense would even try it, because his heavys are so easily parried and then the opponent has a free GB.

Here's an interesting idea; where do you stand on a conqueror buff? I play him and as you may have noticed, I've got a good thing going on with him. My duel record with him is my best by far.
I don't really think he needs a buff as much as a few more openers, but as they're in the habit of buffing already decent characters screw it, I hope they take him back to his glorious pre-nerf self.

A4einboy
05-12-2017, 09:04 PM
Rep 23 raider here im going to main him for life

Mudflaaaps
05-12-2017, 09:07 PM
Surprised you've even gotten him to 23 because he's just SO bad and totally not a viable hero...

Antonioj26
05-12-2017, 09:09 PM
I've played conqueror enough to know that it's not guaranteed. It's mostly connection based, but I very VERY rarely get a heavy after GB. No conqueror with any sense would even try it, because his heavys are so easily parried and then the opponent has a free GB.

Here's an interesting idea; where do you stand on a conqueror buff? I play him and as you may have noticed, I've got a good thing going on with him. My duel record with him is my best by far.
I don't really think he needs a buff as much as a few more openers, but as they're in the habit of buffing already decent characters screw it, I hope they take him back to his glorious pre-nerf self.

I honestly haven't played with him as much as I did prenerf at least in duels but I still almost exclusively use him in dominion. I do really well even in 1v1 scenarios, but not sure if that's really a good indicator since there tends to be a lower skill level there. So few people play conq it's kind of hard to gauge. I'll say that I played you and s0mi and you guys were both great with conq. I'll have to test this theory about the gb. I also thought a while back that heavy wasn't guaranteed but someone told me that it has to be instantaneous and since then I don't think I've really had many blocks. Could be confirmation bias though. He definitely shouldn't go back to what he was before but some small improvements I don't think would be the worse thing.

TheLastPandaa
05-12-2017, 09:10 PM
Conqueror does NOT get a heavy off a GB. He doesn't get a heavy off parry either. He also doesn't get a guaranteed heavy after the first shoulder bash. I know conqueror mate and you are not correct in any way.

R11 Conqueror here and In fact he does get a granted side heavy after a GB unless it gets buged (it hapens some times)

A4einboy
05-12-2017, 10:07 PM
Surprised you've even gotten him to 23 because he's just SO bad and totally not a viable hero...

i use him because hes fun not because hes op i like the challenge plus if i lose its because i use raider but if i win it makes it that much sweeter

Pope138
05-12-2017, 10:38 PM
The fact that you use the word salt and spam axe humps shows me that you're a poor player with zero etiquette, I wouldn't worry pal you'll still be awful after the patch.

I lost to raider as orochi. I'd say orochi is generally worse than raider, similar speed, exact same guard change speed, but a lack of openers, low damage and no mix ups.
Therefore, judging by the logic here, he obviously needs a buff too.

LMAO!
This guy is lecturing about etiquette now!?! XD

Sincerity117
05-12-2017, 11:12 PM
Lawbringer is God? Raider is viable and doesn't need buffs? Orochi is worse than raider? Conqueror doesn't get a free heavy off gb? Dude how drunk are you because I want some of whatever you're drinking. Now I'm just waiting for a salty post from you crying about the centurion when he goes live. I can see it now "OMG he impaled me and turned to an imaginary crowd yelling 'are you not entertained' how dare he?!"

razabak10mm
05-12-2017, 11:19 PM
Hahaha. It's obvious he's simply jealous of the Axe Hump.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0p83F7NU6mI

razabak10mm
05-12-2017, 11:21 PM
i use him because hes fun not because hes op i like the challenge plus if i lose its because i use raider but if i win it makes it that much sweeter
This is one of the best posts in the thread.

Stay Dirteh my brother!

Mudflaaaps
05-12-2017, 11:25 PM
If you lose its because you're raider? So you blame every loss on the fact that your character isn't as good as others, despite the fact he actually is? Ok then. That's a weak excuse.

Mudflaaaps
05-12-2017, 11:28 PM
Nah, I'll be up there with the centurion. I am PRAYING he's overpowered, because in general (and I say this with no vanity whatsoever) I'm better than 90% of other players and it'll be nice to be able to compete with scrubs who play stupid overpowered hero's for a change.

Lawbringer is a god. If you disagree you obviously play as one. I play lawbringer too, except I realise his potential as the most broken character in the game.
He's the exact same as warlord, free hit after free hit. Pointless fight.

razabak10mm
05-12-2017, 11:31 PM
Mud, every time you post an Orochi gets Axe Humped.

Mudflaaaps
05-12-2017, 11:37 PM
No-one cares, you're bad at the game (Y)

razabak10mm
05-12-2017, 11:42 PM
because in general (and I say this with no vanity whatsoever) I'm better than 90% of other players

Tell me again how you're better than 90% of all other players, and about how humble you are.

Sincerity117
05-12-2017, 11:48 PM
Nah, I'll be up there with the centurion. I am PRAYING he's overpowered, because in general (and I say this with no vanity whatsoever) I'm better than 90% of other players and it'll be nice to be able to compete with scrubs who play stupid overpowered hero's for a change.

Lawbringer is a god. If you disagree you obviously play as one. I play lawbringer too, except I realise his potential as the most broken character in the game.
He's the exact same as warlord, free hit after free hit. Pointless fight.

The fact that you have to say it yourself kinda makes you look bad and totally full of it, but whatever guy. I'll keep an eye out for your salty posts

Mudflaaaps
05-12-2017, 11:48 PM
Why? You wanna suck me off?

Mudflaaaps
05-12-2017, 11:50 PM
You think professional athletes pretend they're bad at their sport? I am good kid, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging your own skill.

razabak10mm
05-12-2017, 11:58 PM
Why? You wanna suck me off?

There you go. Find your true inner hate for
The Raider.

I can feel your anger! Let the hate flow through you.

razabak10mm
05-13-2017, 12:04 AM
Also, if you're not working Axe hump into your regular combo rotation then you're not raidering correctly.

Sincerity117
05-13-2017, 12:31 AM
You think professional athletes pretend they're bad at their sport? I am good kid, there's nothing wrong with acknowledging your own skill.

From the things you've claimed in this thread you've kinda proven the opposite, but k whatever helps you sleep at night.

Sincerity117
05-13-2017, 12:32 AM
Also, if you're not working Axe hump into your regular combo rotation then you're not raidering correctly.

Axe humping is the only way I kill people

Hormly
05-13-2017, 12:37 AM
Raider is far too metal

He needs his metal nerfed

Mudflaaaps
05-13-2017, 02:17 AM
Raider isn't metal at all. The Vikings in this game are literally the gayest set of 'heros' imaginable. I mean, we all know Vikings raped enemy men as a display of dominance. But did they have to make them quite so obviously gay? I'm cool with gay people, but these Vikings man. They're next level gay. Every time a raider axe humps, all I see is a gay man pretending to hump another gay man.

It's funny how the people who play as the big strong manly *cough* Vikings are always the skinny little dweebs who can't grow facial hair. Cute actually. Best embrace the male rape boys, you're never seeing a woman naked so long as you live :)

Mudflaaaps
05-13-2017, 02:18 AM
Lol what? Stuff I've said that's fact proves I'm bad? Logic. The fact that you play as raider is proof you're bad.

CrunaCross
05-13-2017, 02:19 AM
Yes. Raider buff is needed. To keep it short. Next silly question? I don't know what you brag about, but I would rip your raider in pieces with most characters in it's current state. Maybe you just played your noob friends or something if you think that Raider is just fine in it's current state. You wouldn't chip a single square off my health with it since I know how to see through your mixups and parry all you have. Furthermore countering guardbreak is something even a monkey can do. So you would just exhaust yourself around me and rage in front of your screen while you try to do anything with a raider against me in it's current state. So yes it needs a buff and it's a well deserved update.

razabak10mm
05-13-2017, 02:42 AM
Every time a raider axe humps, all I see is a gay man pretending to hump another gay man.


Hey man if that's all you can see, then I'm not gonna judge. You be you.

Just keep your fantasies to yourself.

Mudflaaaps
05-13-2017, 02:47 AM
If one happens upon two dudes rutting, that doesn't make it his fantasy pal, the dudes rutting are still the gay ones

Antonioj26
05-13-2017, 02:51 AM
Raider isn't metal at all. The Vikings in this game are literally the gayest set of 'heros' imaginable. I mean, we all know Vikings raped enemy men as a display of dominance. But did they have to make them quite so obviously gay? I'm cool with gay people, but these Vikings man. They're next level gay. Every time a raider axe humps, all I see is a gay man pretending to hump another gay man.

It's funny how the people who play as the big strong manly *cough* Vikings are always the skinny little dweebs who can't grow facial hair. Cute actually. Best embrace the male rape boys, you're never seeing a woman naked so long as you live :)

Hahahahaha dude it's a real wonder why you and I didn't get along at the beginning. You are easily my favorite person on the forums.

razabak10mm
05-13-2017, 03:07 AM
Haha. I know right? I knew there'd be hate when Raider buffs were announced, but this is more than I could have hoped for.

Antonioj26
05-13-2017, 03:11 AM
Haha. I know right? I knew there'd be hate when Raider buffs were announced, but this is more than I could have hoped for.

Yeah I don't think raider will get much hate. These buffs are definitely nice but they are pretty small. I really don't think much will change but we will have to see. I can see people getting annoyed they are getting knee'd in the face more but I don't think it's going to change how he fairs against the cast. I sorta understand muds mentality, it basically can be summarized as "git gud" even though he hates that phrase.

He's basically the exact opposite of people who ask for every character to be nerfed and buffed. With that said they are two sides of the same coin. It's naive to think the game was perfect at launch, there were and are clear imbalances in the game. There's nothing wrong with trying to get the cast on a relatively close playing field. I don't mean identical and I don't mean exactly the same playing field, it's impossible. That being said I do agree with the sentiment that people are so quick to jump to the forums and complain every time a they are beaten by their exact counter pick or when a player has capitalized on their weakness. They blame their character instead of wanting to improve themselves.

I think there is a healthy median here. I respect mud as a fighter and I'd wager he would give just about everyone a run for their money while using almost exclusively low to mid tier characters.

Mudflaaaps
05-13-2017, 03:16 AM
I'm just winding the kids up now ;)

All seriousness though, this is the problem with these forums.
All I said was 'DOES the raider need a patch' and I explained why I think he's a good character.
This was met with 'derrr I never win with my raider so it must be because he's underpowered and I'm definitely not compensating for my tiny genitals hurrr durrr y u so salty'.

No fu cking chance of any sort of real discussion on here, because no one is willing to accept that anyone else's opinion is valid or right. At least I always listen to peoples points.

Damn git gud kids :(

Sincerity117
05-13-2017, 05:47 AM
I'm just winding the kids up now ;)

All seriousness though, this is the problem with these forums.
All I said was 'DOES the raider need a patch' and I explained why I think he's a good character.
This was met with 'derrr I never win with my raider so it must be because he's underpowered and I'm definitely not compensating for my tiny genitals hurrr durrr y u so salty'.

No fu cking chance of any sort of real discussion on here, because no one is willing to accept that anyone else's opinion is valid or right. At least I always listen to peoples points.

Damn git gud kids :(

Well no the other idiotic things you said about other classes that are blatantly wrong then followed by baseless boasting of you being 'better than 90% of other players' is why people tore into you and keep laughing at you. Try to keep up gay fantasy boy haha 😂

Sincerity117
05-13-2017, 06:05 AM
Oh wow your fhtracker stats are atrocious Mudflaaaps.

Antonioj26
05-13-2017, 06:30 AM
Oh wow your fhtracker stats are atrocious Mudflaaaps.

He who calls out someone's stats must post their own.

cragar212
05-13-2017, 06:51 AM
Oh wow your fhtracker stats are atrocious Mudflaaaps.

Cause fhtracker means anything?

Cosmicswordsmen has a K/D ratio over 1200.

90% of the time anyone who brags about their fhtracker stats they are boosting them.

If you think your good enter a tourny.

Mudflaaaps
05-13-2017, 07:25 AM
that site isn't accurate at all pahaha, my actual stats are better. For instance that site says I've played for 4 days. I wish that were true, it's more like 12.

Pillow_Hands
05-13-2017, 06:20 PM
If one happens upon two dudes rutting, that doesn't make it his fantasy pal, the dudes rutting are still the gay ones

Except you stated that is what you see when you see a raider use the air hump, therefore it is what you imagine, therefore fantasy.

\_(ツ)_/

Mudflaaaps
05-13-2017, 09:32 PM
...what?
Not everything you imagine is fantasy. If you're not a native English speaker then maybe don't try to call people out on English Johnny foreigner

razabak10mm
05-14-2017, 12:30 AM
Let me guess, you English better than 90% of players out there.

Pillow_Hands
05-14-2017, 12:58 AM
...what?
Not everything you imagine is fantasy. If you're not a native English speaker then maybe don't try to call people out on English Johnny foreigner

Fantasy
noun, plural fantasies.
1. imagination, especially when extravagant and unrestrained.
2. the forming of mental images, especially wondrous or strange fancies; imaginative conceptualizing.
3. a mental image, especially when unreal or fantastic; vision:
a nightmare fantasy.
4. Psychology. an imagined or conjured up sequence fulfilling a psychological need; daydream.
5. a hallucination.
6. a supposition based on no solid foundation; visionary idea; illusion:
dreams of Utopias and similar fantasies.
7. caprice; whim.

You are, by the very definition, fantasizing about the male raider humping another guy.

I mean, I don't really care if you're gay. There really is nothing wrong with it. It's 2017, you can be open about it. And people are usually pretty accepting of it. However, like the previous poster had said, the forums are not really a place to air your fantasies.

SnugglesIV
05-14-2017, 01:08 AM
Raider needs a heavy on guardbreak. I dont see why ubi wont implement that come on!

GB > Free Side Heavy > 50/50 zone.

Guess wrong and you lose more than 50% of your health. Can you see the problem with this?

PS. Watch RustyRat when he uses unlock tech on Raider for free heavy on GB. There's your reason why he can't have free heavy without damage nerfs on heavies and chained zones.

Antonioj26
05-14-2017, 01:20 AM
GB > Free Side Heavy > 50/50 zone.

Guess wrong and you lose more than 50% of your health. Can you see the problem with this?

PS. Watch RustyRat when he uses unlock tech on Raider for free heavy on GB. There's your reason why he can't have free heavy without damage nerfs on heavies and chained zones.

how is his zone a 50/50? You try to parry and faint if he doesn't do it. Besides it would be no different than him getting a wall stun from a throw heavy into za

Lyskir
05-14-2017, 01:40 AM
GB > Free Side Heavy > 50/50 zone.

Guess wrong and you lose more than 50% of your health. Can you see the problem with this?

PS. Watch RustyRat when he uses unlock tech on Raider for free heavy on GB. There's your reason why he can't have free heavy without damage nerfs on heavies and chained zones.

50/50 za? what the f*** are u talking about o_O
are you high or something?

Sincerity117
05-14-2017, 02:01 AM
Fantasy
noun, plural fantasies.
1. imagination, especially when extravagant and unrestrained.
2. the forming of mental images, especially wondrous or strange fancies; imaginative conceptualizing.
3. a mental image, especially when unreal or fantastic; vision:
a nightmare fantasy.
4. Psychology. an imagined or conjured up sequence fulfilling a psychological need; daydream.
5. a hallucination.
6. a supposition based on no solid foundation; visionary idea; illusion:
dreams of Utopias and similar fantasies.
7. caprice; whim.

You are, by the very definition, fantasizing about the male raider humping another guy.

I mean, I don't really care if you're gay. There really is nothing wrong with it. It's 2017, you can be open about it. And people are usually pretty accepting of it. However, like the previous poster had said, the forums are not really a place to air your fantasies.

Lol so much win. The OP's reality is obviously much different than anyone else's. I mean almost all his posts are complaining about something in one way or another, then people make fun of him, then he gets more mad and starts throwing out his own definition of words and calls everyone else childish. 😂

Antonioj26
05-14-2017, 02:09 AM
I agree with mud, you're all gay, childish, and suck at this game. I got your back, dude.

Mudflaaaps
05-14-2017, 03:08 AM
Wonderful, you can copy and paste a definition (not an entirely true one either) and still be wrong.

You said it was MY fantasy, insinuating my own personal sexual fantasy.
In that sense, imagining something is not the same as fantasizing. English language pal. It's all about context and you clearly don't understand that.

FYI, fantasy is generally referring to something which has no basis in reality. Hence the fantasy genre.

Mudflaaaps
05-14-2017, 03:10 AM
Pahaha I'm not calling anyone gay besides suggesting Vikings are pretty gay (they did rape men a lot). Kids are usually like 'ewww gay that's so gay I don't like that I like girls even though girls won't even talk to me'

Mudflaaaps
05-14-2017, 03:11 AM
LuL so much win ermagherd such wow. Fu ck outta here kid hahaha

xECS DESTROYER
05-15-2017, 04:25 PM
Why is there so much butthurt on this thread? Newsflash to all:

Raider is low tier, and at the most will be mid-tier after the patch. Whichever character you use does not signify the level of skill you have, as some people stick with weaker heroes because they like the look of him/her or their moveset.

To go into further detail of why Raider needed the buff, it is because of his inability to open up turtles because he had neither fast regular attacks or unblockable chain starters. Warlord has headbutt, Warden has shoulder bash, Valk with shield bash, etc. While he has an unblockable, it is easily interruptible, comes from one side, and uses a ton of stamina.

The pros of Raider is his amazing damage output. If you get great at parrying light attacks, you will punish any opponent you face. However, him having the slowest switch between guard stances makes that tough against those who feint a lot. With the new buff, he will be able to play more mind games which will assist him in landing his very slow attacks and better attacking opponents who are either low or out of stamina.

I have played Raider a lot in For Honor, and while I have won tournaments and placed high in the Gamebattles ladder, it requires a TON of work and skill to compete with subpar players who use better heroes. This buff should make him more viable against the other heroes, particularly those who can turtle well.

The real question is how ridiculous Centurion and Shinobi will be since most DLC characters Ubisoft released in Rainbow Six Siege were top-tier off the start.

razabak10mm
05-15-2017, 05:33 PM
Every time a raider axe humps, all I see is a gay man pretending to hump another gay man.

The upcoming patch is going to be hard on you isn't it mud?

CandleInTheDark
05-15-2017, 05:39 PM
Why is there so much butthurt on this thread? Newsflash to all:

Raider is low tier, and at the most will be mid-tier after the patch. Whichever character you use does not signify the level of skill you have, as some people stick with weaker heroes because they like the look of him/her or their moveset.

To go into further detail of why Raider needed the buff, it is because of his inability to open up turtles because he had neither fast regular attacks or unblockable chain starters. Warlord has headbutt, Warden has shoulder bash, Valk with shield bash, etc. While he has an unblockable, it is easily interruptible, comes from one side, and uses a ton of stamina.

The pros of Raider is his amazing damage output. If you get great at parrying light attacks, you will punish any opponent you face. However, him having the slowest switch between guard stances makes that tough against those who feint a lot. With the new buff, he will be able to play more mind games which will assist him in landing his very slow attacks and better attacking opponents who are either low or out of stamina.

I have played Raider a lot in For Honor, and while I have won tournaments and placed high in the Gamebattles ladder, it requires a TON of work and skill to compete with subpar players who use better heroes. This buff should make him more viable against the other heroes, particularly those who can turtle well.

The real question is how ridiculous Centurion and Shinobi will be since most DLC characters Ubisoft released in Rainbow Six Siege were top-tier off the start.

Exactly this. I play a top tier character, for the same reason you said people play the likes of raider,every game I get a choice to,I play the stealthy dual wielder. Dungeons and dragons? Dual wield rogue. Dragon age? Dual wield rogue assassin. For Honor? D'uh, Peacekeeper, this was before I knew she was top tier, she was my main before I bought the game.

So I am always pretty happy when the lower tier characters get buffs. I am not going to leave the peacekeeper just because she is considered OP, never going to happen, I can honestly say I would have played her had she started trash tier, but what I do want is for players with equal skill to be able to have a good match whatever their character is, essentially what I think needs to happen is a lot of buffs and maybe a few nerfs (more buffs than nerfs though) to make every hero equally viable or as close to as they can get it.

AndersenThree
05-15-2017, 06:24 PM
Only because people don't understand how to use him. I tried him once and won 7 duels in a row. 7!

Not all heros get a free heavy off a GB, conqueror doesn't. Does he get a buff? No, he got a nerf.

Their 'data' doesn't really make sense. Just because a character is played less than others (more OP ones) he needs a buff? No sense there. He's already a very viable and dangerous character in the hands of anyone with a tiny bit of skill.

Conqueror gets a free heavy off a GB......I do it all the time.

Pope138
05-15-2017, 08:28 PM
.

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
05-15-2017, 09:36 PM
Nah, I'll be up there with the centurion. I am PRAYING he's overpowered, because in general (and I say this with no vanity whatsoever) I'm better than 90% of other players and it'll be nice to be able to compete with scrubs who play stupid overpowered hero's for a change.

Lawbringer is a god. If you disagree you obviously play as one. I play lawbringer too, except I realise his potential as the most broken character in the game.
He's the exact same as warlord, free hit after free hit. Pointless fight.

I play as a Lawbringer, and the free light after shove was not warranted at all, however saying he's on the same level as Warlord is a bit much.

The thing that makes LB OP is his shove.
The thing that makes Warlord OP is the fact that he has the great advantages of a character, with few downsides.

Strong defence, check
Fast zone, check
Quick lights, check
Hyper armor on heavies, check
All block, check
Omnidirectional mega throw of death, check

The headbutt is debatable imo(I see it as low risk, low reward) However, the fact that he has all the good parts of a character, with none of the downsides of others, is what makes him OP imo.

Mudflaaaps
05-16-2017, 12:17 AM
Contrary pal, they're running a season 2 premiere tournament right now I think, from what I hear lawbringer is winning as many as wardens and warlords. He's clearly top 2 characters now easily, if not the top.

Exactly as I predicted when his buff came. His free hits are absolute cancer.