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View Full Version : Tomorrow's warrior den will probably make it or break it for me



We.the.North
05-11-2017, 01:05 AM
I'm getting very tired of this defensive meta. I feel extremely punished for playing an aggressive hero and I grow more than tired of people specing 100% defense and just wait to block GB throw you off a ledge. (Overlook, worst, map, ever).

So, other than the long overdue raider update, I hope to hear good CONCRETE news about how Ubisoft intend to break this ******** of a defensive meta so we can go back to playing the art of battle instead of the art of turtling.

North

(To counter any "get gud" replies)
https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/We.the.North/heroes

UbiNoty
05-11-2017, 01:23 AM
You'll definitely be hearing about Raider tomorrow.
Not sure how much more they'll be revealing about their plans for the defensive meta as there will most likely be a bit more focus on S2 stuff, but it should be a very informative stream - you won't be disappointed!

Egotistic_Ez
05-11-2017, 01:25 AM
Yeah I'm in the same boat. Injustice 2 is next week, and while I prefer the intended design of For Honor over MKDC, it doesn't play like it should.

CandleInTheDark
05-11-2017, 01:53 AM
Goodness, everyone wants everything yesterday these days.

Do you know how old this game is? Not counting the beta it isn't even three months old.In that time there have been, what, three patches? (I was here for two but people were moaning about the peacekeeper getting their deflect fixed to work as intended so assuming another). By all accounts, the defensive meta was not so much an issue in beta when people were just trying out movesets, but then yeah as soon as it goes open for all the win at any costs crowd comes in, so I would guess they had very little warning it would be an issue.

So that is three patches and one due next week,four patches in the first three months. And these patches have focussed on what people have been complaining about, on improving connectivity (and yes it has improved, not where it needs to be yet but making progress every patch) on the things that people have found most toxic (revenge, light spam, shoulder bash spam),and they said very clearly they tried to get get the raider buff into the last patch but testing had not been satisfactory, so what,you'd have rather a half baked attempt that didn't get revisited for a few patches? Defensive meta has been the least of their main concerns with what people have posted rage thread after rage thread about.

And the thing is we know they have things they are testing in the works, they have given us some idea on the ideas they have had over it,they have told us that they know it is an issue and they are working on it, but everyone wants what they want right now or else because they are such competent game designers themselves so surely if they say it can be done in two days it can be done in two days, right?

Come back with arguments about balancing and doing it all at light speed when you have put your own game out there, not until.

Egotistic_Ez
05-11-2017, 02:21 AM
You realise, Candle, that games have internal testing, yeah? Are you really suggesting that everyone at Ubi, plus whoever they hired for QA, were all so incredibly **** at the game that never, over the years of development, did the turtle meta appear?

Because I've gotta say, that's probably a worse accusation than people just assuming they were lazy.

We.the.North
05-11-2017, 02:23 AM
Goodness, everyone wants everything yesterday these days.

We indeed live within a generation of people with a small attention spam. After playing the game for 75 hours, I've reach a point where I can pin point something in the game that truely annoys me to the point I now leave games where I see I'm against turtles. Being against 2 warlords is an instant quit to menu for me now. So yes, I'd rather go play something else than stay in this defensive turtle meta. At the moment, it is MY greatest issue with the game. You are entitled to your opinion, this is mine. Turtles are now a game breaker for me at the moment and I'd rather go play something else. If change doesn't come sooner than later, I'll probably have lost all interest and just wont be back. You might not care, but Ubisoft do care since I speak highly of their game to my friends so they come play with me ... but I wont if I am not playing anymore.


Do you know how old this game is? Not counting the beta it isn't even three months old.In that time there have been, what, three patches?

You have got to realise something : Nowadays, "big" game companies often release half finished products. The first "live" weeks of a game's release is like a massive beta test and of course, a lot of patches are going to come flying. Having multiple quick patch only shows how broken the game actually was when it released, it doesn't tell us Ubisoft is working hard, they just had lots of stuff to fix.


or else because they are such competent game designers themselves

That one is actually funny since I did use to be a game designer for Ubisoft Montreal. Assassin's Creed 2 is in my portfolio along with other smaller games. So I do understand how game design works, how long it takes ; and I still have friends at Ubisoft Montreal telling me what's happening behind the scenes. While I agree Ubisoft is working on stuff, directors sometimes decide to hold on changes for a very, very long time even if the playerbase is really angry and demanding. All it takes is on director blocking changes for only he knows why and For Honor will go nowhere if that happens.

Ever heard of Dr Boom (Dr 7) in Hearthstone and for how long the community raged over that card ?? Ya, Ben Brode never agreed to change anything about the card, going as far as posting on the forums that the card had been looked at and was deemed as "ok". The playerbase went nuts and we had to wait for many months before that card fell into "wild" territory. I love Ben and his Ungoro Rap on youtube, but boy did I hate him in Goblins vs Gnomes and further expansions. I have PTSD from piloted shredder and Dr Boom.

In other words, I know full well what "we're looking at the issue" means while we sometime have to wait MONTHS for something to happen. Sometime fixing stuff takes time, but sometime it's only one person just shutting the door to change.


You realise, Candle, that games have internal testing, yeah? Are you really suggesting that everyone at Ubi, plus whoever they hired for QA, were all so incredibly **** at the game that never, over the years of development, did the turtle meta appear?

I'm friends with the guys who won the Ubisoft Internal Tournament about 2 years ago. Back then, the defensive meta really didn't exist since playing defensively was nowhere as rewarding as it is now. The changes that made the defensive meta so good actually happened close to release. Now that the game has released, I play with them online and they tell me the game actually improved over the last couple of months, despite the defensive meta ... but they too dont like the defensive meta and would rather have it be tuned down a little. I just hope they'll fix it sooner rather than later.

One thing for sure : A ranked mode cannot happen before the defensive turtle meta is fixed. Otherwise, ranked mode will be a failure and even more people will lose interest in the game.

VampireSamurai
05-11-2017, 05:11 AM
We indeed live within a generation of people with a small attention spam. After playing the game for 75 hours, I've reach a point where I can pin point something in the game that truely annoys me to the point I now leave games where I see I'm against turtles. Being against 2 warlords is an instant quit to menu for me now. So yes, I'd rather go play something else than stay in this defensive turtle meta. At the moment, it is MY greatest issue with the game. You are entitled to your opinion, this is mine. Turtles are now a game breaker for me at the moment and I'd rather go play something else. If change doesn't come sooner than later, I'll probably have lost all interest and just wont be back. You might not care, but Ubisoft do care since I speak highly of their game to my friends so they come play with me ... but I wont if I am not playing anymore.



You have got to realise something : Nowadays, "big" game companies often release half finished products. The first "live" weeks of a game's release is like a massive beta test and of course, a lot of patches are going to come flying. Having multiple quick patch only shows how broken the game actually was when it released, it doesn't tell us Ubisoft is working hard, they just had lots of stuff to fix.



That one is actually funny since I did use to be a game designer for Ubisoft Montreal. Assassin's Creed 2 is in my portfolio along with other smaller games. So I do understand how game design works, how long it takes ; and I still have friends at Ubisoft Montreal telling me what's happening behind the scenes. While I agree Ubisoft is working on stuff, directors sometimes decide to hold on changes for a very, very long time even if the playerbase is really angry and demanding. All it takes is on director blocking changes for only he knows why and For Honor will go nowhere if that happens.

Ever heard of Dr Boom (Dr 7) in Hearthstone and for how long the community raged over that card ?? Ya, Ben Brode never agreed to change anything about the card, going as far as posting on the forums that the card had been looked at and was deemed as "ok". The playerbase went nuts and we had to wait for many months before that card fell into "wild" territory. I love Ben and his Ungoro Rap on youtube, but boy did I hate him in Goblins vs Gnomes and further expansions. I have PTSD from piloted shredder and Dr Boom.

In other words, I know full well what "we're looking at the issue" means while we sometime have to wait MONTHS for something to happen. Sometime fixing stuff takes time, but sometime it's only one person just shutting the door to change.



I'm friends with the guys who won the Ubisoft Internal Tournament about 2 years ago. Back then, the defensive meta really didn't exist since playing defensively was nowhere as rewarding as it is now. The changes that made the defensive meta so good actually happened close to release. Now that the game has released, I play with them online and they tell me the game actually improved over the last couple of months, despite the defensive meta ... but they too dont like the defensive meta and would rather have it be tuned down a little. I just hope they'll fix it sooner rather than later.

One thing for sure : A ranked mode cannot happen before the defensive turtle meta is fixed. Otherwise, ranked mode will be a failure and even more people will lose interest in the game.

What would you suggest as a needed change towards the game to fix the turtle meta? as a lower tier player I never see that kind of play so I can't really think of anything that'd be a good fix to this issue without essentially changing how the entire game works.

Defense meta has been described to me as essentially a feinting match with people taking little to no risks because of parrying and punishing. with that in mind, all I can think of would be either making parrying such high reflex that most normal people cant do it, make parrying no longer an option, make feinting drain stamina far more quickly, etc. All those changes hurt casual players a lot, and the game will not survive if its not approachable by new and casual players. Of course this is all from my opinion and I really don't know a lot about the intricacies of the game for higher end playing.

Mia.Nora
05-11-2017, 05:34 AM
What would you suggest as a needed change towards the game to fix the turtle meta? as a lower tier player I never see that kind of play so I can't really think of anything that'd be a good fix to this issue without essentially changing how the entire game works.

Defense meta has been described to me as essentially a feinting match with people taking little to no risks because of parrying and punishing. with that in mind, all I can think of would be either making parrying such high reflex that most normal people cant do it, make parrying no longer an option, make feinting drain stamina far more quickly, etc. All those changes hurt casual players a lot, and the game will not survive if its not approachable by new and casual players. Of course this is all from my opinion and I really don't know a lot about the intricacies of the game for higher end playing.

They could have just lessened the stagger time from parry that it is not enough for a guaranteed GB anymore, but enough for a light attack. But apparently someone with decision authority likes turtle meta way too much.

Same goes for 1v1 revenge ********.

We.the.North
05-11-2017, 05:48 AM
Essentially, the "Turtle Meta" emerges because of the following :

1. Heavy attacks do a lot more damage than a light attack, but they are easy to block / parry
2. Light attacks are harder to block / parry. As a result, against a good player, that's pretty much your only opener
3. Parrying will give you an automatic guard break which then leads to a heavy attack that can't be blocked / parried.
4. Parrying + Guard Break can also lead to an instant kill if you can throw your opponent off a ledge or into spikes.

This leads to 2 strategies to win, each depending on the opponent you're facing :

a) If you are playing against an aggressive player, just block everything he throws at you and try to get a parry. If you are a good player, you might get poked by some light attacks, but when you'll parry + guard break, you'll come back on top with your heavy attacks or your instant kill throw.

b) If you are playing against another turtle ... feint and feint some more. At some point, your opponent will make a mistake and "miss" his parry ... which you will parry and punish with a guard break + unblockable heavy. Repeat. This leads to staring contest where both playing stay out of harms way throwing obvious feints at each other ... or abuse bugs like "flicker" or "guard break cancel".

As more and more players get better and figure out "defense" is the way to go, more and more starring contest happens and this is where the game becomes very dull to play and watch.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There you have it. The problem lies in the fact playing "defensive" will actually help you out-damage your opponent and is much more rewarding than playing "offensive". Now, as for proposing a solution, I dont have the client to test all the variables in front of me, but the first solution I would like to test if I could would be as follow :

i. Considering a "block" is already rewarding the defender in the fact he negates the damage + drain a small amount of stamina
ii. Considering a "parry" is already rewarding the defender in the fact he negates the damage + drain a lot of stamina + you combo break your opponent's chain attacks

My fix would be to have players exchange "momentum" through combos (I know Ubisoft love combos). Normal blocking wouldn't break a combo, but parry would break it sooner. I would make it so players have a recovery animation after they perform a combo, about 300 ms. During that time, they could switch guard direction in time for an opponent's attack, but they would not be able to recover + attack because their opponent will attack faster. In other words, your opponent should take this opportunity to start his own combo chains. As a result, you'll have both players exchange combo of blows until one falls. Blocking would only negate damage and parrying would allow you to start your combo faster since you broke your opponent's combo chain before its end.

Just a little question I throw out there : When is the last time you saw a good player do a 3 hit combo ?? ... a long time ago. Might as well not have any 3 hit combo since doing them will actually just get you punished by the Turtle in front of you.

Obviously, for this to work, you need to remove any free damage after you block / parry. Else, you would still have turtles everywhere. So I would allow all players to be able to counter guard break regardless of the animation state they are in. In the middle of a dodge ? Staggered by parry ? Recoiled from hitting the wall ? You can still counter guard break if your timing is right.

Guard break is too strong with all the instant kill options all around the map. We need to nerf it by allowing players to counter guard break way more easily. Players can still punish something like a Valkyrie missing a leg sweep or shield tackle by dodging out of it and throwing an unblockable light attack at the defenseless valkyrie ... a light attack that would start a combo (momentum !!). We shouldn't need to guard break every time we want to punish someone, that's just silly.


TLDR : That would be the first thing I test :

#1 : Remove any free damage from overly defensive gameplay
#2 : Encourage "combo chains" gameplay by allowing players to exchange momentum, thus players play the "art of battle" again.

VampireSamurai
05-11-2017, 06:04 AM
Actually a lot of that makes sense and wouldn't be to punishing to newer players while allowing skill in higher levels of play. Personally I found the way the gear was set up before this next patch also led to a lot of cheese builds which has killed the fun of pvp for me as a casual player. So with the changes coming I have a feeling that even if I do start playing pvp, it'll just be a different kind of annoying unless this is fixed :(

We.the.North
05-11-2017, 06:06 AM
Same goes for 1v1 revenge ********.

Revenge should have always been something you gain only when you receive "external" attacks and block "external" attacks. 0 revenge points should be gained in 1v1, no matter what you do. Revenge is a mechanic designed to give you a fighting chance in 1vX situations ?? Well, make it only gainable when you're outnumbered.

We.the.North
05-11-2017, 06:10 AM
Personally I found the way the gear was set up before this next patch also led to a lot of cheese builds which has killed the fun of pvp for me as a casual player.

For me as well. Everyone plays 100% defense gear + Revenge Gear and Turtle up. A Warlord with his 3 first feats is a real joke to play against. It'll take at least 10-15 hits to take him down while all he has to do is wait for your to make a single mistake, guard break and zooooooooooooooom throw you off a cliff.

That's For Honor for you at the moment and why I said this Warrior's Den was probably going to make it or break it for me. We're not playing the "Art of Battle" anymore.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-11-2017, 10:05 AM
I am holding my breath.


I'm not sure the forums would be able to handle you leaving North.


:rolleyes:

BattiterraUb
05-11-2017, 10:34 AM
For me as well. Everyone plays 100% defense gear + Revenge Gear and Turtle up. A Warlord with his 3 first feats is a real joke to play against. It'll take at least 10-15 hits to take him down while all he has to do is wait for your to make a single mistake, guard break and zooooooooooooooom throw you off a cliff.

That's For Honor for you at the moment and why I said this Warrior's Den was probably going to make it or break it for me. We're not playing the "Art of Battle" anymore.

Totally agree with you. The game itself has great potential, but as far as now there are too many problems: flicker bug, turtle meta, gear stats (which they'll hopefully fix in Season 2) connection issues. I have 200+ hours on PS4, and I love/hate this game. I love it 'cause I think it's unique, a mix of a fighting game and a Moba with beautifully animated warrior, but I also Hate it because its a full price game with lots of issues and few game mode.

Btw, I'll give tis game another chance at the start of S2, I also believe that the suggestion you wrote above are really interesting as well as a great starting point for balancing the aggressive/defensive playstyle.
Otherwise I'll just drop this game.

Btw sorry for the bad english ;)

AncientReaper20
05-11-2017, 11:07 AM
Honestly, even with the turtle meta, I truly don't understand the "hate" and demands for fixes.

So let's think about ancient war (Spartans, Vikings, etc). I guess making shield walls was a form of defensive meta. It's how combat was fought. If you have a heavy shield, why are you going to be an aggressive nut?

Honestly, I get frustrated in this game the EXACT same amount as I do in any online fighting game. Fighting games are inherently loaded with cheese. I just try to find a way around it. Sometimes I lose, sometimes I win, but I enjoy it none the less.

Also, from what I've seen about Shinobi and Centurion, they BOTH look like characters that have a lot of abilities to break up the defensive meta. Perhaps all the new characters introduced will have a lot more opening up abilities. Then as all 6 are eventually released, we'll automatically have some semblance of balance with both defensive and offensive characters that serve to auto balance the game. After that, only minor tweaks would be needed to mechanics or abilities.

Just my 2 cents...I could be wrong though, and have no problem admitting that.

Oh and on a 100% side note....I still see complaints every day about the "servers" or lack thereof. But, on my end, I rarely get disconnected anymore. Maybe 1 in 10 matches, which is acceptable to me and 100 times better than before...

DrinkinMyStella
05-11-2017, 11:16 AM
i want some dates for S2 and the new heroes.

CandleInTheDark
05-11-2017, 11:19 AM
i want some dates for S2 and the new heroes.

It's been in the last two dens, 16th of May season starts and people with season pass get the new heroes for free. One week later, 23rd of May, the heroes drop for everyone else, they can be used in training mode but must be unlocked for 15,000 steel each to use in multiplayer.

Netcode_err_404
05-11-2017, 11:27 AM
Essentially, the "Turtle Meta" emerges because of the following :

1. Heavy attacks do a lot more damage than a light attack, but they are easy to block / parry
2. Light attacks are harder to block / parry. As a result, against a good player, that's pretty much your only opener
3. Parrying will give you an automatic guard break which then leads to a heavy attack that can't be blocked / parried.
4. Parrying + Guard Break can also lead to an instant kill if you can throw your opponent off a ledge or into spikes.

This leads to 2 strategies to win, each depending on the opponent you're facing :

a) If you are playing against an aggressive player, just block everything he throws at you and try to get a parry. If you are a good player, you might get poked by some light attacks, but when you'll parry + guard break, you'll come back on top with your heavy attacks or your instant kill throw.

b) If you are playing against another turtle ... feint and feint some more. At some point, your opponent will make a mistake and "miss" his parry ... which you will parry and punish with a guard break + unblockable heavy. Repeat. This leads to staring contest where both playing stay out of harms way throwing obvious feints at each other ... or abuse bugs like "flicker" or "guard break cancel".

As more and more players get better and figure out "defense" is the way to go, more and more starring contest happens and this is where the game becomes very dull to play and watch.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There you have it. The problem lies in the fact playing "defensive" will actually help you out-damage your opponent and is much more rewarding than playing "offensive". Now, as for proposing a solution, I dont have the client to test all the variables in front of me, but the first solution I would like to test if I could would be as follow :

i. Considering a "block" is already rewarding the defender in the fact he negates the damage + drain a small amount of stamina
ii. Considering a "parry" is already rewarding the defender in the fact he negates the damage + drain a lot of stamina + you combo break your opponent's chain attacks

My fix would be to have players exchange "momentum" through combos (I know Ubisoft love combos). Normal blocking wouldn't break a combo, but parry would break it sooner. I would make it so players have a recovery animation after they perform a combo, about 300 ms. During that time, they could switch guard direction in time for an opponent's attack, but they would not be able to recover + attack because their opponent will attack faster. In other words, your opponent should take this opportunity to start his own combo chains. As a result, you'll have both players exchange combo of blows until one falls. Blocking would only negate damage and parrying would allow you to start your combo faster since you broke your opponent's combo chain before its end.

Just a little question I throw out there : When is the last time you saw a good player do a 3 hit combo ?? ... a long time ago. Might as well not have any 3 hit combo since doing them will actually just get you punished by the Turtle in front of you.

Obviously, for this to work, you need to remove any free damage after you block / parry. Else, you would still have turtles everywhere. So I would allow all players to be able to counter guard break regardless of the animation state they are in. In the middle of a dodge ? Staggered by parry ? Recoiled from hitting the wall ? You can still counter guard break if your timing is right.

Guard break is too strong with all the instant kill options all around the map. We need to nerf it by allowing players to counter guard break way more easily. Players can still punish something like a Valkyrie missing a leg sweep or shield tackle by dodging out of it and throwing an unblockable light attack at the defenseless valkyrie ... a light attack that would start a combo (momentum !!). We shouldn't need to guard break every time we want to punish someone, that's just silly.


TLDR : That would be the first thing I test :

#1 : Remove any free damage from overly defensive gameplay
#2 : Encourage "combo chains" gameplay by allowing players to exchange momentum, thus players play the "art of battle" again.

Negate the damage would make some classes completely useless. LB, kensei rely on parry do to damage. ( blind justice which is guaranteed on lights, anc is not onheavies and cannot be feinted)

And GB for kensei

Kraxers
05-11-2017, 11:42 AM
I'm getting very tired of this defensive meta. I feel extremely punished for playing an aggressive hero and I grow more than tired of people specing 100% defense and just wait to block GB throw you off a ledge. (Overlook, worst, map, ever).

So, other than the long overdue raider update, I hope to hear good CONCRETE news about how Ubisoft intend to break this ******** of a defensive meta so we can go back to playing the art of battle instead of the art of turtling.

North

(To counter any "get gud" replies)
https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/We.the.North/heroes

I agree with you about defensive meta but linking your w/l raito is bizarre. Everybody knows that most of people leave game before defeat screen to maintain their "pro stats". We are all playing same game and this is not even close to something rare we all see that. I saw lots of people with %90 winrate just because they leave game when they are losing. Sometimes even I do that when I get frustrated. So even with characters I don't play much and I am really not used to when I look statistics I can say I am an MLG pro. So my advice is do not post your winrates to show people how good you are. You can be pretty much good player or a really bad player these statistics are just ********.

Draghmar
05-11-2017, 12:21 PM
I agree with you about defensive meta but linking your w/l raito is bizarre. Everybody knows that most of people leave game before defeat screen to maintain their "pro stats". We are all playing same game and this is not even close to something rare we all see that. I saw lots of people with %90 winrate just because they leave game when they are losing. Sometimes even I do that when I get frustrated. So even with characters I don't play much and I am really not used to when I look statistics I can say I am an MLG pro. So my advice is do not post your winrates to show people how good you are. You can be pretty much good player or a really bad player these statistics are just ********.
Why do you judge him by your standards? Maybe he isn't like that? I'm not for example. Maybe it's hard for you to grasp that but not everyone likes to cheat this way only to show off. ;)

Infidel.Castro
05-11-2017, 01:02 PM
What time does it start?

rossato2109
05-11-2017, 02:04 PM
Unless they show a solution to the region lock situation in regions you can barely get a game its a break for me and most people I know.

Draghmar
05-11-2017, 02:12 PM
Unless they show a solution to the region lock situation in regions you can barely get a game its a break for me and most people I know.
The only solution for that would be to attract more players from that region. They can't jump through hardware limitations like distance and what it does to overall latency.

FizNpop
05-11-2017, 02:18 PM
I'm getting very tired of this defensive meta. I feel extremely punished for playing an aggressive hero and I grow more than tired of people specing 100% defense and just wait to block GB throw you off a ledge. (Overlook, worst, map, ever).

So, other than the long overdue raider update, I hope to hear good CONCRETE news about how Ubisoft intend to break this ******** of a defensive meta so we can go back to playing the art of battle instead of the art of turtling.

North

(To counter any "get gud" replies)
https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/We.the.North/heroes

In response to the Bolded part.

While I do understand that defensive play does not make for exciting aggressive play. I have to ask, have you ever fought with a weapon before?

In a 1v1 sword duel, you do not just go in hacking at your opponent. The "current meta" is actually about as realistic as it gets.

But again, I do understand how it can make this game less fun as the fights can get boring when it is just two people waiting for the other to attack so they can counter.

Egotistic_Ez
05-11-2017, 02:23 PM
The only solution for that would be to attract more players from that region. They can't jump through hardware limitations like distance and what it does to overall latency.

This game has little issue with latency. The errors are a result of other issues. Removing the region lock (which wasn't there originally) would have no effect on stability.

Infidel.Castro
05-11-2017, 02:27 PM
This game has little issue with latency.

Depending on the time of day, i.e. when I start connecting to people further away, the latency starts to get pretty bad to the point of unplayable.

Egotistic_Ez
05-11-2017, 02:41 PM
Depending on the time of day, i.e. when I start connecting to people further away, the latency starts to get pretty bad to the point of unplayable.

I live in Aus and I have a mate I regularly group with from Canada. No (extra) issues what-so-ever. Depending who's peak time it is dictates who's the group leader (the non-leader follows to the leader's region). With 200 something ping to NA I occasionally get that "you can execute now, lolz just kidding" issue, but only once every 5 dominion games or so. No problem with anything else, even deflecting.

Infidel.Castro
05-11-2017, 02:43 PM
I live in Aus and I have a mate I regularly group with from Canada. No (extra) issues what-so-ever. Depending who's peak time it is dictates who's the group leader (the non-leader follows to the leader's region). With 200 something ping to NA I occasionally get that "you can execute now, lolz just kidding" issue, but only once every 5 dominion games or so. No problem with anything else, even deflecting.

Mmm, maybe I am just connecting to people with turd internet then, but it does get quite bad for me a times. I live in the UK.

Egotistic_Ez
05-11-2017, 02:51 PM
Mmm, maybe I am just connecting to people with turd internet then, but it does get quite bad for me a times. I live in the UK.

Yeah it gets bad for me at times too. Aus has a lot of regional areas with **** net and they just ruin the game (not their fault ofc), but it's more their stability than latency I've found. I have no idea what the net is like in the smaller euro countries, but if it's bad I guess their prime time could be screwing you maybe?

rossato2109
05-11-2017, 03:14 PM
The only solution for that would be to attract more players from that region. They can't jump through hardware limitations like distance and what it does to overall latency.

As Egoistic_ez said, removing region lock would have no effect on the game overall. I play with friends in the USA region lock and even Europe region lock without latency issues at all. They could restrict people with really bad conections, what should also be applied to their own region but they cannot just let this situation to stay the way it is now. If they don't do anything about this, they should feel obligated to put a warning on the live store saying "regions X, Y or Z cannot play multiplayer". Its basically a scam.

rossato2109
05-11-2017, 03:16 PM
It's funny how everyone hates defensive meta, but doesn't care that they are taking away our options of unique playstyles by lessening our stat choices!

I don't CARE if people with feat CD reduction have a lower win% and is used less. IT IS FUN and I actually win a lot with it.

The feat timer reduction also upset me a great deal. They are basically streamlining all stats. We will all be playing the same exact stats now.

TheMalakith
05-11-2017, 03:22 PM
In response to the Bolded part.

While I do understand that defensive play does not make for exciting aggressive play. I have to ask, have you ever fought with a weapon before?

In a 1v1 sword duel, you do not just go in hacking at your opponent. The "current meta" is actually about as realistic as it gets.

But again, I do understand how it can make this game less fun as the fights can get boring when it is just two people waiting for the other to attack so they can counter.

Depends a lot on what style you're fighting in. Usually it's actually very fast as it's easier to find an opening than to defend on it, as you take the initiative. The amount of turtling this game has isn't realistic at all.

OokiireteHoshii
05-11-2017, 04:20 PM
So I would allow all players to be able to counter guard break regardless of the animation state they are in. In the middle of a dodge ? Staggered by parry ? Recoiled from hitting the wall ? You can still counter guard break if your timing is right.
That's what i liked about the first weeks of the game, GB was an actual threat to deal with, the timing to counter was tight, but absolutely easy to learn. Of course the majority of the players didn't agree and now we just a have a button that wastes your time unless you play the infamous way of parry+guard break. May i know why you sir don't work anymore with the guys of Ubisoft? your ideas and suggestions seems good enough to be considered.
.

Herbstlicht
05-11-2017, 04:26 PM
Even the most realistic way of fighting is decided by action. Depending on the weapon of choice, this could range from an all out attack to a simple feint, but the dynamic is completely different. First, i hardly ever "dodge". Second - try that rolling around in combat - especially with armor! Third: It is about stamina, a comparision of strength and possibly wearing an equally strong opponent down. But defencive actions cost nothing in this game. So if you want to tell me the current meta is as realistically as it gets, i laugh at you. I honestly do.

Even today, depending the style and weapon you choose, without all that armor, fights are incredible fast. Fencing, Kendo, you can hardly follow the actions with your eye. If you fight yourself, you know that it isn't even the opponents blade that you focus, it's posture, and movement.If you domsome medieval style swordfighting, together with the armor - well, that is rather interesting an maybe makes for a slower fight then using a Katana. But still, simply wearing this armor will already drain your stamina.

So there is no excuse for turtling. It is not realistic. and in a battle scenario, with many warriors on the field, you will always be the first to gwt the kill - you get some breathing room, can assist your comrades or fight of the next guy that is running for your head. I am 100% with the OP here.

We.the.North
05-11-2017, 04:46 PM
In a 1v1 sword duel, you do not just go in hacking at your opponent. The "current meta" is actually about as realistic as it gets.

My suggestion was nowhere near "just go in hacking". It was a way to exchange momentum where both players "go in hacking" when they see an opening to do so between their opponent's combo strings.

I do get you guys treat For Honor like it's based on realistic combat. But at the end of the day, always remember this is a video game. As a result, game designers (strongly pushed by their director) only have 2 things in mind :

#1 : How to make more money (Director's view)
#2 : How to make the game more FUN. (Passionnate Game Designer's View) ... which will lead to more money.

Sadly, often #1 > #2 which is why lots of great idea are blocked by the director. Now, regarding realism in For Honor, this is not a simulation game, it's just based on realities. But after that, it expands to the reality of video games.

You say Turtles was the way to fight for those faction. If the Director's went to the Gaming Board in France with the idea to make a game about Turtling heavily, for Honor would never have gotten a budget to be done. So you need to look pass that. When you suggest ideas, always refer to #1 and #2. You want to make the game more fun while also increasing it's revenues. Realism is often bad in video games. You start your setting based on reality, but then, you chop parts of it off to make room for fun.

Going full realism is like going full re*tard ... never go full re*tard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6WHBO_Qc-Q

We.the.North
05-11-2017, 06:20 PM
You'll definitely be hearing about Raider tomorrow.
Not sure how much more they'll be revealing about their plans for the defensive meta as there will most likely be a bit more focus on S2 stuff, but it should be a very informative stream - you won't be disappointed!

I get your job is P/R and you hope to get us excited as much as possible ... but today's (May 11th) Warrior's Den was extremely disappointing. As pointed out, the defensive turtle meta is the biggest turn off from this game (beside constant disconnections) and the director's commentary actually hinted toward BUFFING the turtle meta. Here are points they said actually buffing the turtle meta. I summed it up here :

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1665104-Warrior-s-Den-May-11th-They-actually-buffed-the-Turtle-Meta?p=12629001#post12629001

UbiNoty
05-12-2017, 12:09 AM
I get your job is P/R and you hope to get us excited as much as possible ... but today's (May 11th) Warrior's Den was extremely disappointing. As pointed out, the defensive turtle meta is the biggest turn off from this game (beside constant disconnections) and the director's commentary actually hinted toward BUFFING the turtle meta. Here are points they said actually buffing the turtle meta. I summed it up here :

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1665104-Warrior-s-Den-May-11th-They-actually-buffed-the-Turtle-Meta?p=12629001#post12629001

I did see the points you brought up and we really do want to find ways to address the turtle meta issues. As it stands, these upcoming changes are only part of what we have planned, and we'll still be making more changes after the S2 update on Tuesday. We haven't released the full scope of our plans just yet. Give us a bit of time to bring out all the changes before you make any judgement calls.

That being said, if the changes we make to balance the turtle meta aren't successful in resolving the issue - we're always open and willing to take action on the feedback we receive from the community.