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View Full Version : THE HATE toward PeaceKeeper is very strong in this community



Maxime_Qc-
05-08-2017, 01:05 PM
just want to show y'all this


https://youtu.be/GXB6JoJhEW0

and ask why hating on the player so much instead of hating the game !!! ??

my own team trolling me in every fkn brawl i join !! and when i ask them if they got a problem they all reply '' fkn peacekeeper''

even the orochi in the others team was mad at me just because playin pk !!

my teammate keep trolling me !!

or people just stay near the ledge to throw me off map because they don't wanna fight me !!

wtf is wrong with you all !?!

The_B0G_
05-08-2017, 01:47 PM
Two words, light spam.

Scorpion1980Lma
05-08-2017, 01:53 PM
lol. play any other class, and face an enemy PK, then re-think your question.youll understand why players despise the PK class so much

CeIasun
05-08-2017, 02:01 PM
Two words, light spam.



lol. play any other class, and face an enemy PK, then re-think your question.youll understand why players despise the PK class so much



I Feel kinda Bad for this guy. And who give a reply on defending this kind of behavior need to be a shamed.

If you look closly he tried a lot of gueardbrakes that where countered. Beside the triple strike you got ripposting stap and deflect, there is not much else. Preforming a deflect on nobushi is harder then most other hero's.

This kinda of behavior needs to be punished it's not healty for the game

CoyoteXStarrk
05-08-2017, 02:23 PM
Thats mostly because 90% of PKs are skill-less spamming scrubs who do nothing but spam ZA and R1.

Scorpion1980Lma
05-08-2017, 02:25 PM
Thats mostly because 90% of PKs are skill-less spamming scrubs who do nothing but spam ZA and R1.

+1

Scorpion1980Lma
05-08-2017, 02:28 PM
there's a reason PK's were banned from outside tourneys, because her light spams makes her broken. and the devs acknowledge this, and are in the process of rebalancing her.

Blasto95
05-08-2017, 02:29 PM
Two words, light spam.

Please tell me what else youd like a PK to do...tell me your strategy with her.
Did you even watch the video? the PK tried to attack 3-4 times with jump and stabs and GBs. Not one light. And guess what? Nothing happened. The Nobushi wasnt even good in the first place. Yet the only thing the PK can land reliably is Light Attacks and Zone Attack.

I get the Light attack spam is really hard to counter and beat. But it is possible, and dont go blaming a PK for using a couple light attacks because thats all that works.
Go complain about Orochi using top light or Zone attack. Go complain about Warden spamming top light, Zone attack and shoulderbash. go complain about Conq spamming shieldbash+heavy. Go complain about Warlord spamming headbutt and zone attacks. Go complain about Shugoki spamming headbutts and guardbreaks. And oh ya, go complain about the Nobushi in that first fight..She spammed more light attacks than the PK did.

AKDagriZ
05-08-2017, 02:29 PM
Im barely don't see PK anymore on Pc.Maybe player start to realize she is definitely no skill required hero or they can't stand the amount of salt toward them in game anymore.By saying no skill hero i don't mean she doesnt have hard move to pull out.But most players will simply rely on dodge light attack and get easy win

this video is sad regardless . I don't agree with this kind of BS

Egotistic_Ez
05-08-2017, 02:30 PM
Assassin style classes, especially female ones, attract a certain type of gamer. You may not be one yourself, but most are toxic.

CeIasun
05-08-2017, 02:30 PM
Thats mostly because 90% of PKs are skill-less spamming scrubs who do nothing but spam ZA and R1.

And here I would say just wait one second...

Give me vailid options what a Peacekeeper can use more often. I don't say that there are little kids who abuse here skills like there is with many other hero's in game.

I have even my own mix of combos, sadly more of the time they don't seems to work any more because people learned how she can be counterd easly. And of course not to forget the defensive meta.

CeIasun
05-08-2017, 02:36 PM
Im barely don't see PK anymore on Pc.Maybe player start to realize she is definitely no skill required hero or they can't stand the amount of salt toward them in game anymore.By saying no skill hero i don't mean she doesnt have hard move to pull out.But most players will simply rely on dodge light attack and get easy win

Don't agree with you on the fact that yyou asume no skill hero. That's just bias.

On high ranked matches she dies very quikly due to the fact of the impact of gear, ofcurse skill is requierd to in this mather.

Her combos more often gets counterd to easely these days even her Light attack chains. Her heavy chains get be done but more often after a light starter combo is executed with succes because her heavy are just to slow and is asking to get parried. after One succesfull parry of the enemy when she goes down she will lose more then half of her health bar or get insta stunned to death. So not really a good fun factor.

She needs a guarbrake to do her 3 stap most ofter guearbrakes get's countered. even if you mix this with combos it's not reliyible as before.

Alustar.
05-08-2017, 02:41 PM
Thats mostly because 90% of PKs are skill-less spamming scrubs who do nothing but spam ZA and R1.

Always be wary when listening to the opinions of hypocrites

AKDagriZ
05-08-2017, 02:41 PM
Don't agree with you on the fact that yyou asume no skill hero. That's just bias.

On high ranked matches she dies very quikly due to the fact of the impact of gear, ofcurse skill is requierd to in this mather.

Her combos more often gets counterd to easely these days even her Light attack chains. Her heavy chains get be done but more often after a light starter combo is executed with succes because her heavy are just to slow and is asking to get parried. after One succesfull parry of the enemy when she goes down she will lose more then half of her health bar or get insta stunned to death. So not really a good fun factor.

She needs a guarbrake to do her 3 stap most ofter guearbrakes get's countered. even if you mix this with combos it's not reliyible as before.

i don't mean she doesnt have hard move to pull out.But most players will simply rely on dodge light attack and get easy win
read better save letter

CeIasun
05-08-2017, 02:46 PM
i don't mean she doesnt have hard move to pull out.But most players will simply rely on dodge light attack and get easy win
read better save letter

No I read it you can be sure of that......

Read! what I said maybe you will understand what I meant.

doge isn't reliable. they use dodge more often because one doge isn't enaugh to evade certain attack. I will explain this with an example. Certain attack on hero's have something like auto lock, even if you dodge one time it's not enaugh do evade you need to push it twich to not get hit. using dodge more often in a battle is more in the sence of playing aggressive, trieing to confuse the opponent with a lot of movement before she strikes. Switching constantly guard that's just being a noob or just silly no argue about that.

All here move involves most of the time a deflect causer to proceed or a starter with light attacks to go further if one of those is countererd your back to where you started.

Netcode_err_404
05-08-2017, 02:57 PM
Thats mostly because 90% of PKs are skill-less spamming scrubs who do nothing but spam ZA and R1.

And the fun fact, is that even works LOL

kweassa1917
05-08-2017, 02:59 PM
Kinda unwarranted really. If there's anything to hate, people'd rather hate the Warlord or the Conqueror.

The aberrant arseholes which players after reaching a certain level of skill, just drips with that smug attitude as if they're invincible. If I count the sheer number of ego maniacs during my time in FH I'd probably count the WL players more than anything, and the monsterly class specs support those attitudes with results.

Compared to that, most PKs are more or less on the Orochi level in actual gameplay -- in that there are hordes of newbies using those to slaughter other newbies with light-spams, but usually really masterful players remaining very rare. In most cases against any type of solid defense those newbie PKs fall apart easily.

Maybe it's the perception of being killed "unfairly" that drives people to hate PKs, but when you really think about it, the most dirty, frustrating, difficult to counter classes aren't the PKs.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-08-2017, 03:03 PM
Always be wary when listening to the opinions of hypocrites

Care to explain this one?


Not sure how I am a hypocrite in this situation. I am a Beserker main not a PK so I sure as hell don't spam R1 and ZA lol

Blasto95
05-08-2017, 03:03 PM
And the fun fact, is that even works LOL

Just like Orochi, Warden and Nobushi among others who use ZA and LA 90-100% of the time.

Antonioj26
05-08-2017, 04:04 PM
just want to show y'all this


https://youtu.be/GXB6JoJhEW0

and ask why hating on the player so much instead of hating the game !!! ??

my own team trolling me in every fkn brawl i join !! and when i ask them if they got a problem they all reply '' fkn peacekeeper''

even the orochi in the others team was mad at me just because playin pk !!

my teammate keep trolling me !!

or people just stay near the ledge to throw me off map because they don't wanna fight me !!

wtf is wrong with you all !?!

I'd put money on this guy either playing with you before and remembering you or he's read your posts in the forums and recognized your name. Could also be he was bored and trolling I don't think it was because you were pk.

SlashingElbow
05-08-2017, 04:25 PM
peacekeeper is the lamest character in the game. Made for weak people that has to run away.. Thats why they haate on you since im sure you play like the usual pk

Gray360UK
05-08-2017, 04:36 PM
The PK hate might have had valid origins, but now it is just something that people do without thinking.

There is such PK racism now that you might as well be a black man in 1950's America trying to sit on a bus with the white folks when you play PK. It doesn't matter how you play, what moves you use, if you have skill, nothing matters, only your class. There is a 'good because PK, not good because good' mentality that isn't going to go away any time soon. Anyone that doesn't move with the times or pay attention to the nerfs, or anyone that gets beaten by a PK, good or otherwise, will cling to this mentality, as it excuses being beaten and is a comfort to the many, many players in this game with terribly fragile egos.

Just yesterday we had a video posted of a whiny YouTuber complainly bitterly for the entire duration of his duels against a PK, even though he repeatedly beat the PK, and even though he himself won one of the duel rounds by performing the Orochis Zone Attack six times in a row. There are massive double standards. I strongly suspect that half the people complaining about no skill PKs actually have half the skill of the average PK player / player full stop.

Previously we have had videos posted of PKs light spamming, that don't actually feature any PK light spamming. People know they are supposed to hate the PK and consider it an unfair class, but often they can't even recognise what it is they claim to hate.

PK has a huge target on her back, and many would like to see her gone completely I am sure. You don't know much about human nature if you don't know that people will complain bitterly about a class they don't play, long after it has stopped being OP, just because if they can ruin a class and make it a piece of cake to beat, that suits them just fine. A lot of people don't like to be challenged by a tough encounter (see the 'waaaa realistic mode is too hard' and 'waaaa remove boosts they're unfair' and 'waaa give back old Revenge' threads for just a few examples).

An example from another game is Battlefield 1, where many, many people complained bitterly about being killed by grenades. I think the 'perception of being killed unfairly' comes into play again here as mentioned by kweassa1917 above. When you believe your skill with a gun should make you win every encounter, and your ego is fragile, having someone beat you with the throw of a grenade is rage inducing (see 'waaa remove Crossbows / Javelins / Catapults' threads). As it turns out, grenades were actually responsible for just 8% of all deaths. So 92% of the time you would not die to a grenade. But once considered unfair, the hate grows until it is massively out of proportion with the size of the problem. The grenade hate was massively out of proportion with the amount of people actually dying to grenades. Same thing for PK.

Too many sheep, too many fragile egos, too easy to jump on the hate bandwagon.

Alustar.
05-08-2017, 04:42 PM
Thats mostly because 90% of PKs are skill-less spamming scrubs who do nothing but spam ZA and R1.


Care to explain this one?


Not sure how I am a hypocrite in this situation. I am a Beserker main not a PK so I sure as hell don't spam R1 and ZA lol

That's easy, you start a thread calling out PKs as cowards that run away when things aren't in their favor, then turn right around and appeal to the forum mods to close out your own thread because the opinions expressed by the majority didn't align with your rhetoric.

Alustar.
05-08-2017, 04:49 PM
The PK hate might have had valid origins, but now it is just something that people do without thinking.

There is such PK racism now that you might as well be a black man in 1950's America trying to sit on a bus with the white folks when you play PK. It doesn't matter how you play, what moves you use, if you have skill, nothing matters, only your class. There is a 'good because PK, not good because good' mentality that isn't going to go away any time soon. Anyone that doesn't move with the times or pay attention to the nerfs, or anyone that gets beaten by a PK, good or otherwise, will cling to this mentality, as it excuses being beaten and is a comfort to the many, many players in this game with terribly fragile egos.

Just yesterday we had a video posted of a whiny YouTuber complainly bitterly for the entire duration of his duels against a PK, even though he repeatedly beat the PK, and even though he himself won one of the duel rounds by performing the Orochis Zone Attack six times in a row. There are massive double standards. I strongly suspect that half the people complaining about no skill PKs actually have half the skill of the average PK player / player full stop.

Previously we have had videos posted of PKs light spamming, that don't actually feature any PK light spamming. People know they are supposed to hate the PK and consider it an unfair class, but often they can't even recognise what it is they claim to hate.

PK has a huge target on her back, and many would like to see her gone completely I am sure. You don't know much about human nature if you don't know that people will complain bitterly about a class they don't play, long after it has stopped being OP, just because if they can ruin a class and make it a piece of cake to beat, that suits them just fine. A lot of people don't like to be challenged by a tough encounter (see the 'waaaa realistic mode is too hard' and 'waaaa remove boosts they're unfair' and 'waaa give back old Revenge' threads for just a few examples).

An example from another game is Battlefield 1, where many, many people complained bitterly about being killed by grenades. I think the 'perception of being killed unfairly' comes into play again here as mentioned by kweassa1917 above. When you believe your skill with a gun should make you win every encounter, and your ego is fragile, having someone beat you with the throw of a grenade is rage inducing (see 'waaa remove Crossbows / Javelins / Catapults' threads). As it turns out, grenades were actually responsible for just 8% of all deaths. So 92% of the time you would not die to a grenade. But once considered unfair, the hate grows until it is massively out of proportion with the size of the problem. The grenade hate was massively out of proportion with the amount of people actually dying to grenades. Same thing for PK.

Too many sheep, too many fragile egos, too easy to jump on the hate bandwagon.

Also bear in mind this is a mentality decades old, people have been hating on assassin classes since old school DnD.

Any game I've played that has had a stealth based agile/superior movement class. They take flack for being OP regardless of if the statistics are there to back up the claims.
I knew that coming into this game, the minute I saw the PK toolkit, I knew she was destined to be the most hated class in the game. At least until shinobi drops.

Blasto95
05-08-2017, 04:50 PM
The PK hate might have had valid origins, but now it is just something that people do without thinking.

There is such PK racism now that you might as well be a black man in 1950's America trying to sit on a bus with the white folks when you play PK. It doesn't matter how you play, what moves you use, if you have skill, nothing matters, only your class. There is a 'good because PK, not good because good' mentality that isn't going to go away any time soon. Anyone that doesn't move with the times or pay attention to the nerfs, or anyone that gets beaten by a PK, good or otherwise, will cling to this mentality, as it excuses being beaten and is a comfort to the many, many players in this game with terribly fragile egos.

Just yesterday we had a video posted of a whiny YouTuber complainly bitterly for the entire duration of his duels against a PK, even though he repeatedly beat the PK, and even though he himself won one of the duel rounds by performing the Orochis Zone Attack six times in a row. There are massive double standards. I strongly suspect that half the people complaining about no skill PKs actually have half the skill of the average PK player / player full stop.

Previously we have had videos posted of PKs light spamming, that don't actually feature any PK light spamming. People know they are supposed to hate the PK and consider it an unfair class, but often they can't even recognise what it is they claim to hate.

PK has a huge target on her back, and many would like to see her gone completely I am sure. You don't know much about human nature if you don't know that people will complain bitterly about a class they don't play, long after it has stopped being OP, just because if they can ruin a class and make it a piece of cake to beat, that suits them just fine. A lot of people don't like to be challenged by a tough encounter (see the 'waaaa realistic mode is too hard' and 'waaaa remove boosts they're unfair' and 'waaa give back old Revenge' threads for just a few examples).

An example from another game is Battlefield 1, where many, many people complained bitterly about being killed by grenades. I think the 'perception of being killed unfairly' comes into play again here as mentioned by kweassa1917 above. When you believe your skill with a gun should make you win every encounter, and your ego is fragile, having someone beat you with the throw of a grenade is rage inducing (see 'waaa remove Crossbows / Javelins / Catapults' threads). As it turns out, grenades were actually responsible for just 8% of all deaths. So 92% of the time you would not die to a grenade. But once considered unfair, the hate grows until it is massively out of proportion with the size of the problem. The grenade hate was massively out of proportion with the amount of people actually dying to grenades. Same thing for PK.

Too many sheep, too many fragile egos, too easy to jump on the hate bandwagon.

Id say PK was (and for some still is) more closely related to the "Noob Tube" in Call of Duty (where you could swap classes mid game for infinite grendaes) more so than BF1 grenades.
She was OP as hell, especially on console like a month or two ago. Now shes just good. People probably hate the fact that shes been nerfed the most of any hero, and still is not bottom or mid tier.

Gray360UK
05-08-2017, 04:51 PM
Also bear in mind this is a mentality decades old, people have been hating on assassin classes since old school DnD.

Any game I've played that has had a stealth based agile/superior movement class. They take flack for being OP regardless of if the statistics are there to back up the claims.
I knew that coming into this game, the minute I saw the PK toolkit, I knew she was destined to be the most hated class in the game. At least until shinobi drops.

Yep exactly, it was a constant for the entire 4 years I spent as a Night Elf Rogue in World of Warcraft.

Alustar.
05-08-2017, 05:17 PM
Yep exactly, it was a constant for the entire 4 years I spent as a Night Elf Rogue in World of Warcraft.

Same here, night elf rogue in WoW for 2 yrs then went to rift and was a Kelari rogue there for 7. It was the same story there

CandleInTheDark
05-08-2017, 05:29 PM
Yep exactly, it was a constant for the entire 4 years I spent as a Night Elf Rogue in World of Warcraft.

Could be the fact you were a knock off drow? (sorry I play d&d >.> lol) But yeah it is what I have seen over time as well.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-08-2017, 05:34 PM
Yep exactly, it was a constant for the entire 4 years I spent as a Night Elf Rogue in World of Warcraft.


Same here, night elf rogue in WoW for 2 yrs then went to rift and was a Kelari rogue there for 7. It was the same story there


Could be the fact you were a knock off drow? (sorry I play d&d >.> lol) But yeah it is what I have seen over time as well.
https://media.giphy.com/media/A9KfKenpqNDfa/giphy.gif


(Former level 95 Blood Elf Survival Hunter who sat for two weeks straight one summer trying to get Aeonaxx and spent 7 months trying to get Onyxia because I am a mount hoarding fool)

Helnekromancer
05-08-2017, 05:45 PM
I don't hate them but i do find them incredibly annoying and a chore if nothing else. I just parry their ******** and they back dash twice and run away (I can't chase them because they all max sprint speed) only to stab me in the back as soon as I fight someone else. "Do you want to fight me or not make up your mind!?"

RatedChaotic
05-08-2017, 05:47 PM
Almost in every game the assassin or rogue players are usually the ones that get the most hate. Its nothing new my friend.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-08-2017, 05:51 PM
Almost in every game the assassin or rogue players are usually the ones that get the most hate. Its nothing new my friend.

That or the Stunners/Disablers


Getting outflanked or just out attacked is one thing, but to be forced to sit there and just take it with nothing they can do about it is another 1 way ticket to getting rage messages.


Heck even support get hate.

Nothing like being killed by the guy you just got done killing cuz he was almost instantly revived lol

The_B0G_
05-08-2017, 05:51 PM
Please tell me what else youd like a PK to do...tell me your strategy with her.
Did you even watch the video? the PK tried to attack 3-4 times with jump and stabs and GBs. Not one light. And guess what? Nothing happened. The Nobushi wasnt even good in the first place. Yet the only thing the PK can land reliably is Light Attacks and Zone Attack.

I get the Light attack spam is really hard to counter and beat. But it is possible, and dont go blaming a PK for using a couple light attacks because thats all that works.
Go complain about Orochi using top light or Zone attack. Go complain about Warden spamming top light, Zone attack and shoulderbash. go complain about Conq spamming shieldbash+heavy. Go complain about Warlord spamming headbutt and zone attacks. Go complain about Shugoki spamming headbutts and guardbreaks. And oh ya, go complain about the Nobushi in that first fight..She spammed more light attacks than the PK did.

The problem with PK is worse on consoles, you get PKs that just rush up to you and mash light attacks, feinting and using more lights, then zone attacks, its a barrage of attacks that are impossible to defend against. If thats all she has then too bad, use another hero, if you don't want to, then get ready to be hated.

Charmzzz
05-08-2017, 05:59 PM
The problem with PK is worse on consoles, you get PKs that just rush up to you and mash light attacks, feinting and using more lights, then zone attacks, its a barrage of attacks that are impossible to defend against. If thats all she has then too bad, use another hero, if you don't want to, then get ready to be hated.

And Zerker? He can spam even more... But hey, it is not PK, right? Pathetic people...

And this "nothing you can do against", some people can. If you cant, well, get better?

CandleInTheDark
05-08-2017, 06:05 PM
The problem with PK is worse on consoles, you get PKs that just rush up to you and mash light attacks, feinting and using more lights, then zone attacks, its a barrage of attacks that are impossible to defend against. If thats all she has then too bad, use another hero, if you don't want to, then get ready to be hated.

Ok while I get the lights was an issue pre-nerf, one thing I find very two-faced is the stuff about feints. Now I don't use them, I can, I practised the mixup, I prefer the dodge attacks and deep gouge with deflects to keep the bleed going. The thing that gets me is that if any other class used feinting to carry on their mixups, it would be considered good gameplay. And I honestly don't think lights are all she has, I use the bleed game, I deflect, I use the soft cancels, I feint heavies to land the heavy-heavy chain, but people will still be salty because hey it's the peacekeeper And as far as the it's worse on consoles thing goes, that was pretty much debunked on last week's Den, the Peacekeeper has a lower winrate, which means .those who actually have to use the rest of her kit because anybody's lights get parried do better in 1v1 battles.

Antonioj26
05-08-2017, 06:08 PM
just want to show y'all this


https://youtu.be/GXB6JoJhEW0

and ask why hating on the player so much instead of hating the game !!! ??

my own team trolling me in every fkn brawl i join !! and when i ask them if they got a problem they all reply '' fkn peacekeeper''

even the orochi in the others team was mad at me just because playin pk !!

my teammate keep trolling me !!

or people just stay near the ledge to throw me off map because they don't wanna fight me !!

wtf is wrong with you all !?!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bYnFOjYJKx4

I think this video also can help summarize why people hate PK. Yes this is prenerf but the damage done to the image is there. Everything in this video is what people hate or hated about PK. Light spam, dash attack spam, bleed feat, zone spam, mindless attacking while in revenge, running away to collect buffs at the beginning of the match, running away when losing, the arrogance when he says "who's next?" The upside though is look at how much has changed since this video, ubi is listening and I'd say they've made tremendous progress in less than 3 months.

Antonioj26
05-08-2017, 06:12 PM
Ok while I get the lights was an issue pre-nerf, one thing I find very two-faced is the stuff about feints. Now I don't use them, I can, I practised the mixup, I prefer the dodge attacks and deep gouge with deflects to keep the bleed going. The thing that gets me is that if any other class used feinting to carry on their mixups, it would be considered good gameplay. And I honestly don't think lights are all she has, I use the bleed game, I deflect, I use the soft cancels, I feint heavies to land the heavy-heavy chain, but people will still be salty because hey it's the peacekeeper And as far as the it's worse on consoles thing goes, that was pretty much debunked on last week's Den, the Peacekeeper has a lower winrate, which means .those who actually have to use the rest of her kit because anybody's lights get parried do better in 1v1 battles.

I honestly think people having to adjust to not having the crutch that was light spam is the reason why console pk is doing worse than PC. Light spam didn't work nearly as well on PC so PC guys have already adapted in a way that doesn't use light spam as their main tool and console needs to catch up. I think once the console players get used to losing their light spam they will surpass their PC counterparts

The_B0G_
05-08-2017, 06:13 PM
And Zerker? He can spam even more... But hey, it is not PK, right? Pathetic people...

And this "nothing you can do against", some people can. If you cant, well, get better?

Zerkers combos are light heavy light, and his zone is useless, it does almost no damage and can be blocked half way through. No comparison between the two.

Not all PK's are unbeatable, a lot of PKs are bad players who heard she is OP and jumped on the bandwagon, so they aren't so hard to kill, but if you get up against a skilled player using PK, it's near impossible to defend using a hero with one of the slower guard stances.

Charmzzz
05-08-2017, 06:13 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bYnFOjYJKx4

I think this video also can help summarize why people hate PK. Yes this is prenerf but the damage done to the image is there. Everything in this video is what people hate or hated about PK. Light spam, dash attack spam, bleed feat, zone spam, mindless attacking while in revenge, running away to collect buffs at the beginning of the match, running away when losing, the arrogance when he says "who's next?" The upside though is look at how much has changed since this video, ubi is listening and I'd say they've made tremendous progress in less than 3 months.

Oh come on, Emote spamming after a Kill is better? Cause everybody does it. It is a PVP Game, and this behavior is common on ALL Characters. It depends on the player, not the Character he plays. And all you listed, well, that is her kit. Complaining about it is like complaining about a Valk spamming Sweep. ^^

Antonioj26
05-08-2017, 06:21 PM
Oh come on, Emote spamming after a Kill is better? Cause everybody does it. It is a PVP Game, and this behavior is common on ALL Characters. It depends on the player, not the Character he plays. And all you listed, well, that is her kit. Complaining about it is like complaining about a Valk spamming Sweep. ^^

Yeah and people hate valk spamming sweep too including the OP and the guy in the video. Not sure how pointing out how one annoying skill erases the other. Yes it's her kit but its brainless and effective. It's like guys in mkx that use full auto Jackie spamming projectiles from the opposite side of the screen. Doesn't matter if it's in her kit or not, it's a lame way to get ez wins while having a smug attitude thinking you are skilled when it's all because of the character. This guy couldn't do anything even with his lame tactics by himself against the orochi, he had to run. No one likes people who run when they are losing a fight, you can argue that yes it's part of his kit but still you won't find one person who likes this.

The_B0G_
05-08-2017, 06:23 PM
Ok while I get the lights was an issue pre-nerf, one thing I find very two-faced is the stuff about feints. Now I don't use them, I can, I practised the mixup, I prefer the dodge attacks and deep gouge with deflects to keep the bleed going. The thing that gets me is that if any other class used feinting to carry on their mixups, it would be considered good gameplay. And I honestly don't think lights are all she has, I use the bleed game, I deflect, I use the soft cancels, I feint heavies to land the heavy-heavy chain, but people will still be salty because hey it's the peacekeeper And as far as the it's worse on consoles thing goes, that was pretty much debunked on last week's Den, the Peacekeeper has a lower winrate, which means .those who actually have to use the rest of her kit because anybody's lights get parried do better in 1v1 battles.

I got beat by a PK the other day and put a legit Wow! afterwards because the guy using her was really good, I defended well but the attacks just never stopped, I landed a couple of hits but once he started up his light spam it was hard to get a block, he'd hit 3 lights and a zone and then a couple more lights and a feint then more lights.

Like I said in my other post, its not the average PK that I myself find insanely hard to defend against, it's the skilled players.

It wouldn't even be much of a problem if heroes had fast enough guard stance to defend against it.

CandleInTheDark
05-08-2017, 06:29 PM
I got beat by a PK the other day and put a legit Wow! afterwards because the guy using her was really good, I defended well but the attacks just never stopped, I landed a couple of hits but once he started up his light spam it was hard to get a block, he'd hit 3 lights and a zone and then a couple more lights and a feint then more lights.

Like I said in my other post, its not the average PK that I myself find insanely hard to defend against, it's the skilled players.

It wouldn't even be much of a problem if heroes had fast enough guard stance to defend against it.

Mmhm and the guardzone change is coming, as are a few things the devs think will close the gap so it is a matter of seeing how things go there.

Alustar.
05-08-2017, 06:37 PM
Could be the fact you were a knock off drow? (sorry I play d&d >.> lol) But yeah it is what I have seen over time as well.

Drow are exactly the reason I played night elf and kelari lol
Drow master race

CandleInTheDark
05-08-2017, 06:52 PM
Drow are exactly the reason I played night elf and kelari lol
Drow master race

I've had evil drow whose needs happened to match the party's, I've had good-ish drow, my favourite was one who was saved by followers of Eilistraee (good aligned drow goddess) after her mother picked the wrong political battle and while good had to very consciously not call the party's patron 'male', people used to milord don't like that,

Alustar.
05-08-2017, 07:13 PM
I've had evil drow whose needs happened to match the party's, I've had good-ish drow, my favourite was one who was saved by followers of Eilistraee (good aligned drow goddess) after her mother picked the wrong political battle and while good had to very consciously not call the party's patron 'male', people used to milord don't like that,

Did we just become best friends? =D

CandleInTheDark
05-08-2017, 07:15 PM
Did we just become best friends? =D

Drow are a decent enough thing to bond over :p Mask tends to be my Faerun deity of choice(I called part of his end game before it was written >.>) but Eilistraee is a close second if my drow isn't evil, Shar if she is. My Sharran considered Lolth petty and short sighted but paid lip service because politics.

cragar212
05-08-2017, 08:11 PM
Meh every fighting game people who chose to play an OP class get shat on.

Don't like it play an average class. /shrug

bananaflow2017
05-08-2017, 09:41 PM
And Zerker? He can spam even more... But hey, it is not PK, right? Pathetic people...

And this "nothing you can do against", some people can. If you cant, well, get better?

But zerker spam isnt faster than your guard switch.
But be happy Wardens getting more and more hate. People generally hate Players who pick the strongest characters.
Thats nothing new......

frank1ller
05-08-2017, 11:13 PM
Too many sheep, too many fragile egos, too easy to jump on the hate bandwagon.
Apollyons should start a war to eliminate those sheep

Alustar.
05-09-2017, 12:26 AM
Drow are a decent enough thing to bond over :p Mask tends to be my Faerun deity of choice(I called part of his end game before it was written >.>) but Eilistraee is a close second if my drow isn't evil, Shar if she is. My Sharran considered Lolth petty and short sighted but paid lip service because politics.

I never got too deep into DnD, by the time I was situated in one area long enough for it I was already into MMOs, and even the books I kept up with I lost touch with them just before the spellplauge broke out. Though a lot of my characters in m games I tailored based off my DnD favorites.
My Rift assassin was my favorite, pulled so much hate both in pvp warfronts and in table top RP sessions alike.

CandleInTheDark
05-09-2017, 12:38 AM
I never got too deep into DnD, by the time I was situated in one area long enough for it I was already into MMOs, and even the books I kept up with I lost touch with them just before the spellplauge broke out. Though a lot of my characters in m games I tailored based off my DnD favorites.
My Rift assassin was my favorite, pulled so much hate both in pvp warfronts and in table top RP sessions alike.

Like you say, people going to hate assassins lol, most of my characters are similar to the peacekeeper, stealthy dual wielders with sneak attacks >.> The sundering is what came after the spellplague, I only read Paul Kemp's book, Godborn, which followed Mask's followers and a scheme Mask had been cooking against Shar over his lifetime. It's a good read and it stands alone well enough though the trilogy before will introduce you to all the players.

bananaflow2017
05-09-2017, 05:55 AM
Rogues and asassins allways get hate in every game.
Then you have the playstyle many people show. It's just very spammy and when this is not Working? Yeah right they decide to run and gank someone.
When there is nobody alive they just run the rest of the game.

This is just cancer for peoples mind.
It fells like ur thoughts are like this:
Ok i cant beat you? Then i waste your time!

SendRickPics
05-09-2017, 06:47 AM
there's a reason PK's were banned from outside tourneys, because her light spams makes her broken. and the devs acknowledge this, and are in the process of rebalancing her.

You mean that reason being that some nerd who thinks himself to be hot-shiet on the MLG forums posted a thread asking people to sign on and "boycott" MLG functions until MLG caved in to their demand that the PK get banned, and somehow that thread got a lot of attention.


The Devs, Ubisoft pretty much "acknowledge" anything that is repeated religiously on the forums in enough volume, regardless of whether or not there's facts or evidence to support the claim. You know why they do that? It's easy to placate a mob of morons that way by saying "we acknowledge your complaints, we'll do something about it" and literally having done nothing to address your concern.

The Peacekeeper is a noob stomper. Light spam only works on noobs. You know how I know that? If I try it on someone at my level or higher, it gets blocked and parried regularly. I literally have to bait people into defending one side so I can set them up for a Zone Attack on their unguarded side. That's how "op" light spam is.

bananaflow2017
05-09-2017, 07:18 AM
You mean that reason being that some nerd who thinks himself to be hot-shiet on the MLG forums posted a thread asking people to sign on and "boycott" MLG functions until MLG caved in to their demand that the PK get banned, and somehow that thread got a lot of attention.


The Devs, Ubisoft pretty much "acknowledge" anything that is repeated religiously on the forums in enough volume, regardless of whether or not there's facts or evidence to support the claim. You know why they do that? It's easy to placate a mob of morons that way by saying "we acknowledge your complaints, we'll do something about it" and literally having done nothing to address your concern.

The Peacekeeper is a noob stomper. Light spam only works on noobs. You know how I know that? If I try it on someone at my level or higher, it gets blocked and parried regularly. I literally have to bait people into defending one side so I can set them up for a Zone Attack on their unguarded side. That's how "op" light spam is.

What Plattform do you play? On pc yes easy on console this is just cancer. This is y she only got banned from console....
Her lights come faster than the guardswitch.... and yes dir playing this u deserve hate XD especially from raiders...

That_guy44
05-09-2017, 07:36 AM
The Peacekeeper is a noob stomper. Light spam only works on noobs. You know how I know that? If I try it on someone at my level or higher, it gets blocked and parried regularly. I literally have to bait people into defending one side so I can set them up for a Zone Attack on their unguarded side. That's how "op" light spam is.

You're not on console talking like that. A good pk on console is GG. They decide when they want to engage and disengage from a fight.

XxHunterHxX
05-09-2017, 07:58 AM
The problem is the gear stats as i em right now i can 1-2 shot people with venom blade and i have revenge 90% of the time up so that with the fact that she is so fast instant win and with revenge on you just spamm wide atack and win 1 v 3 and yes i know they will change gear stats and stuff but from the live stream it didnt seem that much of a change....and the new ninja will come out and i can 100% garantee he is gona be op as hell

CoyoteXStarrk
05-09-2017, 08:16 AM
Rhodri still beating that "PK is totes fine guys git guud" dead horse


You guys need to learn not to take his bait. In case you haven't noticed he has an excuse for literally every argument you try to make. Either he explains that its a fallacy or some other BS or he explains why its all in your head and he is right cuz reasons.


There is no ground to be made. You could say the sky is blue and he would come up with a step by step explanation of why the sky is actually green. If you showed him scientific data as to why the sky is blue he would simply say the data is tainted because people WANTED the sky to be blue therefore the scientists came up with data to match it.


The PK was and still is OP on consoles and she remains a high tier pick on PC. You can do your best to dismiss the MLG ban all you want, but doesn't change the fact that she WAS banned due to her R1 spam.

You can also try to ignore that the people who MADE THE GAME also agreed that she was too OP which is why she has been receiving steady balance updates.



Everybody knows this. So if Rhodri wants to disagree thats fine. He is entitled to his wrong opinion. But don't keep feeding the guy. Just state you peace and move on because god knows he won't stop.

kweassa1917
05-09-2017, 08:20 AM
The Devs, Ubisoft pretty much "acknowledge" anything that is repeated religiously on the forums in enough volume, regardless of whether or not there's facts or evidence to support the claim. You know why they do that? It's easy to placate a mob of morons that way by saying "we acknowledge your complaints, we'll do something about it" and literally having done nothing to address your concern.

Judging by how the devs don't "acknowledge" the weeks, months of whining about revenge you and your ilk have done 24/7, I think your theory is pretty much debunked on the spot.

It's even easier to placate your own agenda and incapability to adapt to the given environment by bombarding the devs -- who usually are too busy to speak in defense of themselves against malicious bullshi* coming from whiney arseholes -- with blanket statements, and shifting the blame onto others by painting them as the boogieman, and people who don't agree to your own f**ked up agenda as "brainless mobs".


Nice try, tho'.

Charmzzz
05-09-2017, 08:37 AM
Rhodri still beating that "PK is totes fine guys git guud" dead horse


You guys need to learn not to take his bait. In case you haven't noticed he has an excuse for literally every argument you try to make. Either he explains that its a fallacy or some other BS or he explains why its all in your head and he is right cuz reasons.


There is no ground to be made. You could say the sky is blue and he would come up with a step by step explanation of why the sky is actually green. If you showed him scientific data as to why the sky is blue he would simply say the data is tainted because people WANTED the sky to be blue therefore the scientists came up with data to match it.


The PK was and still is OP on consoles and she remains a high tier pick on PC. You can do your best to dismiss the MLG ban all you want, but doesn't change the fact that she WAS banned due to her R1 spam.

You can also try to ignore that the people who MADE THE GAME also agreed that she was too OP which is why she has been receiving steady balance updates.



Everybody knows this. So if Rhodri wants to disagree thats fine. He is entitled to his wrong opinion. But don't keep feeding the guy. Just state you peace and move on because god knows he won't stop.

And where is YOUR Data that shows "PK = OP"? Where is it?

Correct, PK WAS banned from Console Tournaments. 2 Patches ago. PK got nerfed in those 2 Patches, Light and ZA Spam - nerfed and counterable now. Still people complain about it? Sorry, but that is really a "get gud" issue then. If you face a PK spamming Light's / ZA: PUNISH him after every Light-Light, you have enough time now. The recovery is huge.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-09-2017, 08:44 AM
And where is YOUR Data that shows "PK = OP"? Where is it?

Correct, PK WAS banned from Console Tournaments. 2 Patches ago. PK got nerfed in those 2 Patches, Light and ZA Spam - nerfed and counterable now. Still people complain about it? Sorry, but that is really a "get gud" issue then. If you face a PK spamming Light's / ZA: PUNISH him after every Light-Light, you have enough time now. The recovery is huge.

And yet on console the PK is still considered by many to be top tier.


I will argue about LOADS of stuff, but this isn't one of those things. You either see the PK as OP still or you don't. I doubt anything I say will change peoples mind.


Agree to disagree.

Charmzzz
05-09-2017, 09:03 AM
And yet on console the PK is still considered by many to be top tier.


I will argue about LOADS of stuff, but this isn't one of those things. You either see the PK as OP still or you don't. I doubt anything I say will change peoples mind.


Agree to disagree.

Exactly, and PK being Top Tier will NEVER Change until they slow down her Light's to 18+ Frames. That this would make the Character completely unviable doesnt matter.

I really do not know in which Skill Bracket you play, but if you have ever faced a Warden / Warlord Turtle then you know what "OP" is.

Warden: "spam" ZA and Top Light occasionaly (if that connects go into Vortex Mode), feint Top Heavy 3 times then let it through, rest of the time turtle up and wait for a parry into Top/Side Heavy
Warlord: "spam" Headbutt into guaranteed Light and ZA, rest of the time turtle up until you get a parry into Top Heavy or Environment Kill

I have faced mostly Warden's doing the Turtle, "spamming" only ZA / Top Light. Same playstyle as your claimed "PK OP", even with the same Attack speed (Ok, ZA is like 3 Frames slower...), but Warden does not have the temporary Guard so he is much safer than the PK.

I do not want to say "Nerf Warden cause OP" because every tactic is legit imo. Still people like you say "But but PK OP, NERF!" even if other Characters DO THE SAME SH*T. Cannot stand this ignorance...

Gray360UK
05-09-2017, 09:33 AM
What Plattform do you play? On pc yes easy on console this is just cancer

Interesting then that on last weeks Warriors Den livestream the developers stated that Peacekeeper has a lower win rate on console compared to PC. They are 'cancer' is a popular line to take, but do you actually struggle with them? And if so, why isn't that anything to do with you? It must be comforting to be able to blame the class and never credit the player.

Gray360UK
05-09-2017, 09:37 AM
You can also try to ignore that the people who MADE THE GAME also agreed that she was too OP which is why she has been receiving steady balance updates.




The same people that announced that Peacekeeper wins less on console, right? ;)

CoyoteXStarrk
05-09-2017, 09:40 AM
The same people that announced that Peacekeeper wins less on console, right? ;)

To be fair on PS4 I almost never see PK anymore for some weird reason.


But by god when there is one its an R1 + ZA+ GB spamming manchild

Gray360UK
05-09-2017, 10:04 AM
And yet on console the PK is still considered by many to be top tier.

And many will never change their minds no matter what happens, long after that stops being the truth, especially immediately after losing to one. 'PK is OP' is a crutch many many people will never give it up,. Look at all the people that want old Revenge back. People love their crutches.

Gray360UK
05-09-2017, 10:10 AM
To be fair on PS4 I almost never see PK anymore for some weird reason.




Well a few of us PK mains saw that coming, the last couple of nerfs changed the Peacekeeper a lot believe it or not, and she is certainly not the 'pick up and win' character that she used to be. I believe, and I am quite possibly biased, that now if you win on a PK it has a lot more to do with knowing how to play the character, rather than knowing how to spam R1. It was obvious her popularity would decline dramtically once she was no longer the FOTM and an auto win for no skill one button spamming noobs. They have moved on to whatever is the new FOTM.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-09-2017, 10:12 AM
They have moved on to whatever is the new FOTM.


That would be the Valkyrie lol

DrinkinMyStella
05-09-2017, 10:16 AM
Not worried about PK anymore, got the hang of how everyone plays her, i'm more worried about LB and that pesty WL

Herbstlicht
05-09-2017, 10:49 AM
Well, for one thing, you needa be fair too: PK is harder to learn then the ordinary vanguard for or tank for example, simple for a defence that at first glimpse seems weaker. When you are new to a game like for honor, and learn a char like the PK, you will have a harder time with the basics then with someone like the kensei for example.
Then comes another thing:
Matchmaking.
I mean: if you play a top tier vs a lower tier class, you can rest assured that when both players have the same measured skill level, the lower tier class player is the better one. So he could still beat the PK due to his superior skill. But still loose, due to the class imbalance.
With the actual strong hate against PK, less players playing and therefore encountering them, i can imagine why the "left overs" do not have the best "stats". I mean the absolute top tier console players are going to be sitting in front of a pc-screen, with a controller they adjusted there deadzones already manually and a few extra buttons added, so they do have some advantage. Combine this with cabled controller and internet, and well - those guys might block the pk like a pc-player.

However, for now - as written in some balance threads - as much as i still hate fighting pk's and valks - i am looking towards the 16. of this month. Ubi will show me there if they did improve the game.
I mean, even if they did mess up a little, even if it would be personal (like: they somehow completely destroyed my main ^^) - i would forgive them if the way they are treading seems to be the right one. Not expect a perfect game, just some improvements along the line that might get all chars a better future and less hate :3

kweassa1917
05-09-2017, 01:00 PM
I don't think the PK is inherently hard. I'd say it's actually pretty easy until up to certain level, and then meets a steeper curve, whereas most classes begin with a bit steeper curve and go steadily up.

In general, I'd say the PK is a classic "rogue-type" class in PvP, sharing many of the same traits as their alternate incarnations in MMORPGs and such.


Rogue-type classes are given a wide variety of options, usually shining in methods of self preservation -- and that makes it easy to play selfishly, but harder to play it in a manner that matters. Now, as with the "PKs run away too much" thread someone started a few days ago, tactically speaking, running away is totally valid and nothing to complain about.

But when the temptation of safety runs too much higher than the needs of the team, there could be a conflict of interest. It's that point where an average, so-so PK and a really good PK starts diverging. A really good PK knows how to keep that "conflict" to a minimum, and play safely but NOT at the expense of the team. OTOH, an average PK plays safely at the EXPENSE of your team. Learning up to the point where you become the latter is easy -- very easy with a PK. But moving past the latter and stepping into former area is difficult. I'd say much more difficult than with any other class.

For most classes, any fight usually makes you committed to it until death. Like it or not,you're invested to the situation. But for PKs, they are given the freedom of the initiative. They're free to choose their fights according to their liking. But team fights are always full of situations that may NOT be to your liking -- and as with any other class, committing yourself to that situation and STILL surviving it takes skill. Since a lot of PK players never get up to that much skill, they refuse to commit -- in which case some other player in your team has to take up that burden for you.

That's why it's easy to go up to a certain level with a PK, but really, really, really hard to blow past that line. Even in today's match I've seen hordes of PKs that were excellent fighters and duelists, but when it comes to tactics, strategy, and teamwork, many of them have shown that they leave a LOT to be desired.


But then, like said, this is not unique to the PK. All "roguish" classes are like that in any game. It's easy to survive, but it's hard to both survive AND matter to your team.

Alustar.
05-09-2017, 01:08 PM
I would have thought with something being op she would have had a much higher win rating across the board.

Any time I've played video games when something is legitimately over powered, it comes with a substantial win rating. Look at wows paladins for examples.

wethebishop
05-09-2017, 01:11 PM
The only thing I don't like about the PK is the ridiculously fast ZA, but this isn't just a PK problem; other characters also have this trait: Orochi, Warden and, Nobushi.

I can parry her light attacks on console if I'm focused, so that's not the problem.

I can only guess when it comes to the ZA. It's difficult to react to block it even.

Having these ridiculously fast ZA's isn't how they should try to solve what people call the defensive meta. It's too gimmicky. There are an infinite number of other ways to solve it.

CandleInTheDark
05-09-2017, 01:11 PM
I don't think the PK is inherently hard. I'd say it's actually pretty easy until up to certain level, and then meets a steeper curve, whereas most classes begin with a bit steeper curve and go steadily up.

In general, I'd say the PK is a classic "rogue-type" class in PvP, sharing many of the same traits as their alternate incarnations in MMORPGs and such.


Rogue-type classes are given a wide variety of options, usually shining in methods of self preservation -- and that makes it easy to play selfishly, but harder to play it in a manner that matters. Now, as with the "PKs run away too much" thread someone started a few days ago, tactically speaking, running away is totally valid and nothing to complain about.

But when the temptation of safety runs too much higher than the needs of the team, there could be a conflict of interest. It's that point where an average, so-so PK and a really good PK starts diverging. A really good PK knows how to keep that "conflict" to a minimum, and play safely but NOT at the expense of the team. OTOH, an average PK plays safely at the EXPENSE of your team. Learning up to the point where you become the latter is easy -- very easy with a PK. But moving past the latter and stepping into former area is difficult. I'd say much more difficult than with any other class.

For most classes, any fight usually makes you committed to it until death. Like it or not,you're invested to the situation. But for PKs, they are given the freedom of the initiative. They're free to choose their fights according to their liking. But team fights are always full of situations that may NOT be to your liking -- and as with any other class, committing yourself to that situation and STILL surviving it takes skill. Since a lot of PK players never get up to that much skill, they refuse to commit -- in which case some other player in your team has to take up that burden for you.

That's why it's easy to go up to a certain level with a PK, but really, really, really hard to blow past that line. Even in today's match I've seen hordes of PKs that were excellent fighters and duelists, but when it comes to tactics, strategy, and teamwork, many of them have shown that they leave a LOT to be desired.


But then, like said, this is not unique to the PK. All "roguish" classes are like that in any game. It's easy to survive, but it's hard to both survive AND matter to your team.

So what kind of gameplay in dominion would bridge the gap between being a so-so pk and a good one? Not being argumentative with this, I am a casual player at best and I am interested, so any tips on gameplay are more than welcome.I know the mechanics of the peacekeeper, I know her kit pretty much whether that is dodge attacks or quick feints, more looking at it from a this is how to pk in dominion angle.

I can only speak for my own playstyle but it tends to be I will boost a zone if it is commonly being taken by a single enemy who runs, if it comes to more than one enemy, I usually cede the zone and go see if the other is free, if one is there I will take them on, more than one and I will usually beat a retreat unless I have backup as they will be at full health or unless I see other zones changing to my team's colour, also that is very much a Destiny thing, since in that the team gets points for each member taking it, so if I take a zone by myself and get killed by two I cost my team points, so I know that isn't a thing in dominion, should I 1vx more often? If my team have heavies keeping the zone, I tend to look for conflicts already in progress. I will make no bones about it, while I will try against people at full health I am not looking for fair fights, I have duel for that, I am looking for fights were the extra body makes a difference or where the opponent is already injured from another battle, since stealth is my first feat that leads to that general style for me.

Herbstlicht
05-09-2017, 01:15 PM
Well, some pro's or at least better players were like: pk is broken, why bother playing here?
Besides, some of the hate against her is real, it has been a lot of time now the game is out and some people really have gone from disliking to really hating some of the more "unfriendly" mechanics. In a game where a lot revolves around playing skillful by outplaying and countering your opponent, everything that throws you out of this concept feels like crap. Cuz it isn't what you trained for or possibly even isn't what you will ever be able to counter (at least for people with wlan console and old tv). So at least in parts, this hate will stay - and doing so somrwhat legitmately.

kweassa1917
05-09-2017, 01:39 PM
So what kind of gameplay in dominion would bridge the gap between being a so-so pk and a good one? Not being argumentative with this, I am a casual player at best and I am interested, so any tips on gameplay are more than welcome.I know the mechanics of the peacekeeper, I know her kit pretty much whether that is dodge attacks or quick feints, more looking at it from a this is how to pk in dominion angle.

I can only speak for my own playstyle but it tends to be I will boost a zone if it is commonly being taken by a single enemy who runs, if it comes to more than one enemy, I usually cede the zone and go see if the other is free, if one is there I will take them on, more than one and I will usually beat a retreat unless I have backup as they will be at full health or unless I see other zones changing to my team's colour, also that is very much a Destiny thing, since in that the team gets points for each member taking it, so if I take a zone by myself and get killed by two I cost my team points, so I know that isn't a thing in dominion, should I 1vx more often? If my team have heavies keeping the zone, I tend to look for conflicts already in progress. I will make no bones about it, while I will try against people at full health I am not looking for fair fights, I have duel for that, I am looking for fights were the extra body makes a difference or where the opponent is already injured from another battle, since stealth is my first feat that leads to that general style for me.


Combined with cases of other "roguish" classes I've seen in other games, I'd say ultimately, the pure, unbridled ability to kill, and kill fast and on demand. IMO "roguish" classes all have this weird, sort of "philosophical" self-contradiction in that while they are given the freedom to preserve oneself, (in a team game environment) the more they exercise it without discretion, the more the burden your team feels.

Like, for example, when a Dom match begins and my PK runs to side zone... and I meet another guy there... at this situation, to me it feels like there's a time-limit set up and starts ticking, and when I can't kill that guy fast, capture the zone, and move to other place to directly apply the +1 man advantage (that I've earned by dispatching that first enemy) in actual combat, then ultimately I'm dragging my team down. The purpose of my class with its mobility and survival, to me, seems that it's given so I can maximize that mobility to a manner that works as a force multiplier to my team.

But when I can't apply that as a multiplier, and ultimately it's just turns out to be a "x1 (multiply by one)", then there's no purpose or reason for me to be PK. The team would probably rather have something more reliable and steady, like a Warlord or a Lawb. In order for my PK to become a "multiplier", I have to be able to kill stuff fast and with extreme prejudice -- which requires me to be that much more skilled than the other guy... and I think this is why to be really good with a PK, it's really tough.

So, if I am playing a PK, and I have to make a run for it because I'm losing, then that's still way better than dying for sure, but tactically speaking, I've become a burden to the team, and need to make up for that mistake ASAP to actually mean something... because PKs aren't really too efficient in clearing mids, nor do they have Bodycount or any other healing type skills. So if I run and take leisurely time to heal up, that's even more time I'm out of combat.

So if I'm a PK, and I meet someone in a 1v1, I HAVE to win that, and fast, too. Failing to do that diminishes my worth as a PK. And I think that's why it's really hard to be a good PK.

CandleInTheDark
05-09-2017, 01:48 PM
Combined with cases of other "roguish" classes I've seen in other games, I'd say ultimately, the pure, unbridled ability to kill, and kill fast and on demand. IMO "roguish" classes all have this weird, sort of "philosophical" self-contradiction in that while they are given the freedom to preserve oneself, (in a team game environment) the more they exercise it without discretion, the more the burden your team feels.

Like, for example, when a Dom match begins and my PK runs to side zone... and I meet another guy there... at this situation, to me it feels like there's a time-limit set up and starts ticking, and when I can't kill that guy fast, capture the zone, and move to other place to directly apply the +1 man advantage (that I've earned by dispatching that first enemy) in actual combat, then ultimately I'm dragging my team down. The purpose of my class with its mobility and survival, to me, seems that it's given so I can maximize that mobility to a manner that works as a force multiplier to my team.

But when I can't apply that as a multiplier, and ultimately it's just turns out to be a "x1 (multiply by one)", then there's no purpose or reason for me to be PK. The team would probably rather have something more reliable and steady, like a Warlord or a Lawb. In order for my PK to become a "multiplier", I have to be able to kill stuff fast and with extreme prejudice -- which requires me to be that much more skilled than the other guy... and I think this is why to be really good with a PK, it's really tough.

So, if I am playing a PK, and I have to make a run for it because I'm losing, then that's still way better than dying for sure, but tactically speaking, I've become a burden to the team, and need to make up for that mistake ASAP to actually mean something... because PKs aren't really too efficient in clearing mids, nor do they have Bodycount or any other healing type skills. So if I run and take leisurely time to heal up, that's even more time I'm out of combat.

So if I'm a PK, and I meet someone in a 1v1, I HAVE to win that, and fast, too. Failing to do that diminishes my worth as a PK. And I think that's why it's really hard to be a good PK.

So with that in mind, the fact that I went with defence and stamina on the current gear score spread means that I am already hindering my dominion play, the new stat spread putting attack onto three gear pieces will likely benefit me, I had a look at what the new skills would be and figured likely I would wind up with mid attack and mid defence from where I am currently min maxing. With this in mind would you keep thick skin or would you tend to think one of the other two in that tier are more useful?

Charmzzz
05-09-2017, 01:56 PM
So with that in mind, the fact that I went with defence and stamina on the current gear score spread means that I am already hindering my dominion play, the new stat spread putting attack onto three gear pieces will likely benefit me, I had a look at what the new skills would be and figured likely I would wind up with mid attack and mid defence from where I am currently min maxing. With this in mind would you keep thick skin or would you tend to think one of the other two in that tier are more useful?

Thick Skin is by far the best Choice because it is a flat (25% afaik) Defense Bonus. I think it will be better to Max Attack on Gear and take the Feat because it will be hard to get to those 25% with Defense on Gear. It depends on how many % you get on Gear. And, tbh, I always prefer a flat bonus that is "on" all the time once I obtained it (Feat lvl 2) instead of taking +25% Revenge Gain that I probably won't even use in a 1on1 and wont be "on" all the time. Revenge itself is not that good anymore to get it asap.

CandleInTheDark
05-09-2017, 02:01 PM
Thick Skin is by far the best Choice because it is a flat (25% afaik) Defense Bonus. I think it will be better to Max Attack on Gear and take the Feat because it will be hard to get to those 25% with Defense on Gear. It depends on how many % you get on Gear. And, tbh, I always prefer a flat bonus that is "on" all the time once I obtained it (Feat lvl 2) instead of taking +25% Revenge Gain that I probably won't even use in a 1on1 and wont be "on" all the time. Revenge itself is not that good anymore to get it asap.

Yeah I deliberately went with a build that wasn't revenge based before the nerf (which suddenly under new skills is revenge based so I have to re-do my whole build in any case, fortunate I am rep 5) so in effect it was between thick skin and the flash bomb.

Alustar.
05-09-2017, 02:11 PM
I don't think the PK is inherently hard. I'd say it's actually pretty easy until up to certain level, and then meets a steeper curve, whereas most classes begin with a bit steeper curve and go steadily up.

In general, I'd say the PK is a classic "rogue-type" class in PvP, sharing many of the same traits as their alternate incarnations in MMORPGs and such.


Rogue-type classes are given a wide variety of options, usually shining in methods of self preservation -- and that makes it easy to play selfishly, but harder to play it in a manner that matters. Now, as with the "PKs run away too much" thread someone started a few days ago, tactically speaking, running away is totally valid and nothing to complain about.

But when the temptation of safety runs too much higher than the needs of the team, there could be a conflict of interest. It's that point where an average, so-so PK and a really good PK starts diverging. A really good PK knows how to keep that "conflict" to a minimum, and play safely but NOT at the expense of the team. OTOH, an average PK plays safely at the EXPENSE of your team. Learning up to the point where you become the latter is easy -- very easy with a PK. But moving past the latter and stepping into former area is difficult. I'd say much more difficult than with any other class.

For most classes, any fight usually makes you committed to it until death. Like it or not,you're invested to the situation. But for PKs, they are given the freedom of the initiative. They're free to choose their fights according to their liking. But team fights are always full of situations that may NOT be to your liking -- and as with any other class, committing yourself to that situation and STILL surviving it takes skill. Since a lot of PK players never get up to that much skill, they refuse to commit -- in which case some other player in your team has to take up that burden for you.

That's why it's easy to go up to a certain level with a PK, but really, really, really hard to blow past that line. Even in today's match I've seen hordes of PKs that were excellent fighters and duelists, but when it comes to tactics, strategy, and teamwork, many of them have shown that they leave a LOT to be desired.


But then, like said, this is not unique to the PK. All "roguish" classes are like that in any game. It's easy to survive, but it's hard to both survive AND matter to your team.

I would say the difficulty depends on the player involved. If you naturally gravitate towards fast, dual wielding assassins, chances are you will do well with PK.
I tried picking up other classes and really didn't feel it.

Gray360UK
05-09-2017, 02:20 PM
Interesting comments on how a PK can best contribute to the team :)

For me, ironically considering people usually hate PKs for killing them, my greatest strength is not killing, but moving across the battlefield quickly and without being detected thanks to the Stealth feat, high base speed and good Sprint Speed gear. I can move from C to A and vice versa in seconds and be a constant thorn in the enemy teams side, undoing their hard work every time they capture a zone. Appearing from nowhere and dissapearing just as suddenly is exactly what I believe the class was made for. Creeping up behind an enemy Vanguard who is blissfully unaware of my presence as he clears minions at B, for example. This kind of thing of course makes the PK even more hated.

"But we just took Zone A and no one was there ... bloody PKs".

"But I was safe in a crowd of minions and there was no blue dot on the radar ... bloody PKs"

I am a harrasser, the knife in the dark, the wolf in the shadows, the pain in your arse ;)

bananaflow2017
05-09-2017, 02:28 PM
But think the hate is more in console than on pc. People just hate her cuz her light atacks are so fast that this is simply unreactionable on console.
I postet in another thread ur reaction time with a 6 frame guard switch character is still slightly under 100ms what is definately not in the human reaction time. And after that u get punished with a even faster light...
Thats frustrating die many people so they start hating....

CandleInTheDark
05-09-2017, 02:31 PM
Interesting comments on how a PK can best contribute to the team :)

For me, ironically considering people usually hate PKs for killing them, my greatest strength is not killing, but moving across the battlefield quickly and without being detected thanks to the Stealth feat, high base speed and good Sprint Speed gear. I can move from C to A and vice versa in seconds and be a constant thorn in the enemy teams side, undoing their hard work every time they capture a zone. Appearing from nowhere and dissapearing just as suddenly is exactly what I believe the class was made for. Creeping up behind an enemy Vanguard who is blissfully unaware of my presence as he clears minions at B, for example. This kind of thing of course makes the PK even more hated.

"But we just took Zone A and no one was there ... bloody PKs".

"But I was safe in a crowd of minions and there was no blue dot on the radar ... bloody PKs"

I am a harrasser, the knife in the dark, the wolf in the shadows, the pain in your arse ;)

Yes I love my stealth feat and I will miss my sprint speed gear lol, eh, adapt and move on.

I have seen people run out the exit of a base, thought surely they must know I am here behind them and then was all ... of course I got stealth last kill, oh well. I promptly went and captured the base and I can only imagine the reaction of someone who I literally came out in the blind spot of five seconds before.

wethebishop
05-09-2017, 02:39 PM
But think the hate is more in console than on pc. People just hate her cuz her light atacks are so fast that this is simply unreactionable on console.
I postet in another thread ur reaction time with a 6 frame guard switch character is still slightly under 100ms what is definately not in the human reaction time. And after that u get punished with a even faster light...
Thats frustrating die many people so they start hating....

You can definitely consistently parry her light attacks on console. You seem to have more of a reaction time if you're not too close to her when she swings.

It's the zone attack that's a problem.

bananaflow2017
05-09-2017, 03:10 PM
You can definitely consistently parry her light attacks on console. You seem to have more of a reaction time if you're not too close to her when she swings.

It's the zone attack that's a problem.

Her zone got same speed as second light.
Maybe u r talking of her Overhead jump?
Or side jump?

Antonioj26
05-09-2017, 03:21 PM
Im barely don't see PK anymore on Pc.Maybe player start to realize she is definitely no skill required hero or they can't stand the amount of salt toward them in game anymore.By saying no skill hero i don't mean she doesnt have hard move to pull out.But most players will simply rely on dodge light attack and get easy win

this video is sad regardless . I don't agree with this kind of BS


Her zone got same speed as second light.
Maybe u r talking of her Overhead jump?
Or side jump?

You're mistaken, her zone is 9 and her second light is 12 on console

Alustar.
05-09-2017, 04:48 PM
I'd like to know where these values are coming from in regards to frames involved in animations.

First off, increasing your FPS will only smooth out current animation sequences. It's not going to give you more or less seconds per animation to react.

To explain, when I animate a sequence, I don't edit my rig frame by frame.
Instead I insert key frames based on my formula: 30fps/60fps. In regards to both I would have keyframes inserted at the beginning, middle and end of a given animation sequence. Possibly more to adjust certain points on my rig as needed.

The computer would interpret the data between my keyframes adding the necessary changes and flow through the sequence.

Boosting the frame rate would not add seconds to animation values or give a player more time to react to things, or would simply make transitions between animated key frames smoother.

It's like trying to tell someone a pound of bricks weighs more than a pound of feathers.

JohnWick87
05-09-2017, 04:51 PM
Its because most pks just spam light attacks and dont even need combos.. thats stupid and annoying. Dont wonde why this class gets hate. and than flickering zonespam and stuff. Clap ^^

Antonioj26
05-09-2017, 05:03 PM
I'd like to know where these values are coming from in regards to frames involved in animations.

First off, increasing your FPS will only smooth out current animation sequences. It's not going to give you more or less seconds per animation to react.

To explain, when I animate a sequence, I don't edit my rig frame by frame.
Instead I insert key frames based on my formula: 30fps/60fps. In regards to both I would have keyframes inserted at the beginning, middle and end of a given animation sequence. Possibly more to adjust certain points on my rig as needed.

The computer would interpret the data between my keyframes adding the necessary changes and flow through the sequence.

Boosting the frame rate would not add seconds to animation values or give a player more time to react to things, or would simply make transitions between animated key frames smoother.

It's like trying to tell someone a pound of bricks weighs more than a pound of feathers.

But there is a difference though, that's why you see a huge difference in console and PC. This is also true in fighting games and competitive shooters it's a must for 60fps. Yes it's the same amount of time in terms of actual milliseconds but it makes a difference in being able to recognize attacks quicker and more clearly. In terms of the frames there was a YouTube video awhile ago I found that tested these and a reddit forum that also matched these values. Too lazy to look them up again but if I could figure out how to post pictures from my phone I can show you a screenshot of pks frame data.

Nevermind I found it https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Gm5L19vZiEg

bananaflow2017
05-09-2017, 05:07 PM
You're mistaken, her zone is 9 and her second light is 12 on console

Ok and my guardswitch is at 6 frames. So the Window between is 100ms for the zone attack. And 200ms for the second light.
The average human reaction time is between 0,2-0,3 seconds says Wikipedia....
Even if im faster I still got Controller lag what is not a lot but also a point even if it's small. We are talking about a more than just small Window. What do characters with slower guardswitch do?
Also how do I parry that?

Antonioj26
05-09-2017, 05:10 PM
Ok and my guardswitch is at 6 frames. So the Window between is 100ms for the zone attack. And 200ms for the second light.
The average human reaction time is between 0,2-0,3 seconds says Wikipedia....
Even if im faster I still got Controller lag what is not a lot but also a point even if it's small. We are talking about a more than just small Window. What do characters with slower guardswitch so?

I wasn't countering your argument I was simply stating you were wrong about the frame data of the attacks.

bananaflow2017
05-09-2017, 05:12 PM
I wasn't countering your argument I was simply stating you were wrong about the frame data of the attacks.

Yes i just wanted to correct myself sry no offense.

CandleInTheDark
05-09-2017, 05:15 PM
Even if im faster I still got Controller lag what is not a lot but also a point even if it's small. We are talking about a more than just small Window. What do characters with slower guardswitch do?

That much at least is going to be a non issue soon, don't know if it is in the season 2 patch (we might find out thursday) or a future one, but they are increasing guardswitch speed.

I can't really answer what to do after you have been hit with the first attack (though I have argued and still argue that some get a guaranteed follow up, people say oh she can do it from all sides but the first is no quicker than the warden's). In my view, the first is your best bet for parrying, the second you will be lucky to guess, after that though they have that added recovery frame between attacks, they can feint, but if you think they will use that trickery, then is your time to either land a quick light or to dodge back, they can no longer light you up with six without pause which a good many pk mains here will happily say was bs pre nerf.

Antonioj26
05-09-2017, 05:20 PM
But the first is faster than all of wardens except for his top light, so you have to watch all directions instead of just his top. True you have to look for his zone as well but if you react and block that one it's a free gb so it's a risk reward sort of thing. I'm not saying she needs to be hit with the nerf bat or anything, I think she's in a pretty good place at the moment just pointing out a few things that are a bit off with what people are saying.

Charmzzz
05-09-2017, 05:21 PM
I'd like to know where these values are coming from in regards to frames involved in animations.

First off, increasing your FPS will only smooth out current animation sequences. It's not going to give you more or less seconds per animation to react.

To explain, when I animate a sequence, I don't edit my rig frame by frame.
Instead I insert key frames based on my formula: 30fps/60fps. In regards to both I would have keyframes inserted at the beginning, middle and end of a given animation sequence. Possibly more to adjust certain points on my rig as needed.

The computer would interpret the data between my keyframes adding the necessary changes and flow through the sequence.

Boosting the frame rate would not add seconds to animation values or give a player more time to react to things, or would simply make transitions between animated key frames smoother.

It's like trying to tell someone a pound of bricks weighs more than a pound of feathers.

People mess up this alot. The Input Lag on Consoles is so much worse than on PC cause of:
- probably wireless controller
- probably connected via WLAN
- TV without Gaming Mode
- Controller Deadzone

If you are playing with such a "bad" rig you cannot block any of the fast Attacks in this game, not only PK ones. ;)

kweassa1917
05-09-2017, 05:24 PM
So with that in mind, the fact that I went with defence and stamina on the current gear score spread means that I am already hindering my dominion play, the new stat spread putting attack onto three gear pieces will likely benefit me, I had a look at what the new skills would be and figured likely I would wind up with mid attack and mid defence from where I am currently min maxing. With this in mind would you keep thick skin or would you tend to think one of the other two in that tier are more useful?

Wowsa, I wouldn't go quite that far. I left out on purpose the possibility of being a burden to the opponent team as an option, because I was stating what I view as a sort of traditionalist approach on what role "roguish" types play in team combat. IMO the only catch would be that being an asset to your team not as a pure killing machine, but instead concentrating on a sort of " "disruptor" role, would actually be even be more difficult than the traditional "nuker" role.

CandleInTheDark
05-09-2017, 05:31 PM
But the first is faster than all of wardens except for his top light, so you have to watch all directions instead of just his top. True you have to look for his zone as well but if you react and block that one it's a free gb so it's a risk reward sort of thing. I'm not saying she needs to be hit with the nerf bat or anything, I think she's in a pretty good place at the moment just pointing out a few things that are a bit off with what people are saying.

Oh aye, it isn't; easy, the devs wanted to keep the speed and that is the drawback of that in my view. Personally I would prefer it if they made her bleed game more appealing to players than her light game, I don't really know how you would do that without either hitting her too hard or making her downright impossible, my experience at balancing games is zero, but it is where I would look if I had the means to.

CandleInTheDark
05-09-2017, 05:38 PM
Wowsa, I wouldn't go quite that far. I left out on purpose the possibility of being a burden to the opponent team as an option, because I was stating what I view as a sort of traditionalist approach on what role "roguish" types play in team combat. IMO the only catch would be that being an asset to your team not as a pure killing machine, but instead concentrating on a sort of " "disruptor" role, would actually be even be more difficult than the traditional "nuker" role.

Ah lol, it is an interesting question, because in my current build, I can very much hassle people already having to deal with my allies, but 1v1 in a zone will take 20-30 seconds. I have been collecting purples since the announcement over the new stat spread last week and I tried with the attack/defence reversed, my first dominion, I found battles ending quicker (though I had to be much more careful) but even on a minimum revenge build, I managed to hold their zone from three of them when they went into breaking, had to pop revenge twice but by the time they had me on my last bit of health, two others had joined the fray. On the other hand, I would feel less confident in that situation than with a full defence build as it is something I have done when I have noticed the other zones changing colour and I have been in the mind of well I am likely getting executed, but if I can hold them off ten seconds I have done my job. It is something I would have to experiment with. Looking at the skills that go with each gear piece, if the den was accurate, then what I feel I need statwise kind of necessitates being medium attack and defence so they are good things to be thinking of in the run in to that.

bananaflow2017
05-09-2017, 05:45 PM
Oh aye, it isn't; easy, the devs wanted to keep the speed and that is the drawback of that in my view. Personally I would prefer it if they made her bleed game more appealing to players than her light game, I don't really know how you would do that without either hitting her too hard or making her downright impossible, my experience at balancing games is zero, but it is where I would look if I had the means to.

First light is also not so easy XD. Most pk just stand in from of u and rip theire right stick like hell. Then the 15 frame Window starts and i got 9 Frames to react what is 300ms. Dats close but manageble.
But when im a raider im inbtrouble XD.

Was it 8 Frames every character will have After Patch?
Them this is getting close....

PanzerShrekonin
05-09-2017, 05:49 PM
Well, I mean the hate remains because of how easy it is to play them, how spammed they were((How many played the ****ing PK)) and how difficult it was to fight them vs other classes.


I mean I don't remember the nerfs they had lately, but were the light attack spam looked at or was it only the Zone attack? If the light attack was left alone, then the real problem with PK was never touched.

Plus the most toxic people seem to be PK players.

Charmzzz
05-09-2017, 05:56 PM
Well, I mean the hate remains because of how easy it is to play them, how spammed they were((How many played the ****ing PK)) and how difficult it was to fight them vs other classes.


I mean I don't remember the nerfs they had lately, but were the light attack spam looked at or was it only the Zone attack? If the light attack was left alone, then the real problem with PK was never touched.

Plus the most toxic people seem to be PK players.

They added a pretty large window of opportunity if PK's stop after the 2nd Light. You have time to attack them with a Light or Dodge back before they can attack again. Same with ZA, the recovery time after is a large window for the opponent to do something now.

Most toxic? Pretty subjective imo, I have seen toxic players on every class.

superSTDZ
05-09-2017, 06:10 PM
Please tell me what else youd like a PK to do...tell me your strategy with her.
Did you even watch the video? the PK tried to attack 3-4 times with jump and stabs and GBs. Not one light. And guess what? Nothing happened. The Nobushi wasnt even good in the first place. Yet the only thing the PK can land reliably is Light Attacks and Zone Attack.

I get the Light attack spam is really hard to counter and beat. But it is possible, and dont go blaming a PK for using a couple light attacks because thats all that works.
Go complain about Orochi using top light or Zone attack. Go complain about Warden spamming top light, Zone attack and shoulderbash. go complain about Conq spamming shieldbash+heavy. Go complain about Warlord spamming headbutt and zone attacks. Go complain about Shugoki spamming headbutts and guardbreaks. And oh ya, go complain about the Nobushi in that first fight..She spammed more light attacks than the PK did.

lol but here is the thing u can usually doge or counter those moves while peacekeeper is still god tier plus the pk is playing like a scrub he should easily beat the nobusi. the things that make pk op: light spam,instant zone,if she parries you and back stabs you you lose half of you health and gets free light after to start chain all over again.

PanzerShrekonin
05-09-2017, 06:10 PM
They added a pretty large window of opportunity if PK's stop after the 2nd Light. You have time to attack them with a Light or Dodge back before they can attack again. Same with ZA, they recovery time after is a large window for the opponent to do something now.

Most toxic? Pretty subjective imo, I have seen toxic players on every class.

I mean most of them won't admit that the PK was broken as ****. That's all I meant.

Did they? So you now can do something? Well, I was just a raider vs a PK and the attacks kept coming from all sides. I can't switch stance fast enough

Charmzzz
05-09-2017, 06:26 PM
lol but here is the thing u can usually doge or counter those moves while peacekeeper is still god tier plus the pk is playing like a scrub he should easily beat the nobusi. the things that make pk op: light spam,instant zone,if she parries you and back stabs you you lose half of you health and gets free light after to start chain all over again.

Wrong on so many levels...
God Tier atm: Warlord and Warden. Then comes PK on High Tier.

And if someone else parries you? Get a heavy? Triple stab DOES NOT deal half of ANY Characters HP. If you have trouble with Bleed - Debuff Reduction...

Charmzzz
05-09-2017, 06:28 PM
I mean most of them won't admit that the PK was broken as ****. That's all I meant.

Did they? So you now can do something? Well, I was just a raider vs a PK and the attacks kept coming from all sides. I can't switch stance fast enough

https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-289190-16/patch-notes-for-honor-v106

Peacekeeper

Light Attack Miss recovery branching into Chained Light Attack delayed by 100ms.
Chained Light Attack recoveries on Interrupt Block increased to 700ms (from 600ms).
Chained Light Attack recoveries on Hit increased to 700ms (from 500ms).

Developer comments: The current light > light spam of the Peacekeeper is annoying and it’s very hard to react on the second light. We didn’t want to fix this by making the second light slower as we want to keep some fast attacks. Instead, we’re increasing the second light’s recoveries on Block and Hits in order to put the peacekeeper at frame disadvantage if she doesn’t commit to the chain finisher. She will lose the initiative and will get hit by fast attack if she continues spamming light.

And in 1.05:

Peacekeeper

Zone Attack

Zone Attack first strike is now set up as a light attack to trigger an interrupt reaction on block.
Cancelling a blocked Zone attack while in Revenge will now force an exit of 600ms preventing you from attacking again.
[Bug Fix] Zone Attack UI indicator will now correctly start at the beginning of the animation instead of 100ms later.

Developer comments: In its current state, Peacekeeper’s Zone Attack has very low risk and very high reward even on block. Revenge also makes the Peacekeeper nearly unstoppable with the ability to repeat the Zone Attack cancel without Stamina penalty. With these changes the move is still a very good opener but will no longer give you a frame advantage on block. Fixing the UI stance indicator’s timing will also make the Zone Attack feel more consistent with its actual timing of 400ms. It will remain one of the fastest moves in the game but the fact that it is always coming from the same stance makes it manageable.

PanzerShrekonin
05-09-2017, 06:29 PM
https://forhonor.ubisoft.com/game/en-us/news-community/152-289190-16/patch-notes-for-honor-v106

Peacekeeper

Light Attack Miss recovery branching into Chained Light Attack delayed by 100ms.
Chained Light Attack recoveries on Interrupt Block increased to 700ms (from 600ms).
Chained Light Attack recoveries on Hit increased to 700ms (from 500ms).

Developer comments: The current light > light spam of the Peacekeeper is annoying and it’s very hard to react on the second light. We didn’t want to fix this by making the second light slower as we want to keep some fast attacks. Instead, we’re increasing the second light’s recoveries on Block and Hits in order to put the peacekeeper at frame disadvantage if she doesn’t commit to the chain finisher. She will lose the initiative and will get hit by fast attack if she continues spamming light.

So Raider is just ****ed :P


fair enough. Thanks mate.

CandleInTheDark
05-09-2017, 06:30 PM
Well, I mean the hate remains because of how easy it is to play them, how spammed they were((How many played the ****ing PK)) and how difficult it was to fight them vs other classes.


I mean I don't remember the nerfs they had lately, but were the light attack spam looked at or was it only the Zone attack? If the light attack was left alone, then the real problem with PK was never touched.

Plus the most toxic people seem to be PK players.

Zone attack, I believe two patches ago, the first part of it was changed to be treated like a light if it was blocked and the indicator was fixed, it had only been coming up halfway through the move so essentially they gave more reaction time. It was also nerfed in revenge mode so that cancelling it meant recovery frames, also in that patch, nerf to damage in dodge attacks, equal buff to damage in deflects to try and encourage more use of them. Lights in the last patch, the first two are as quick but the peacekeeper has to either commit to the chain or feint like anyone else to continue attacking, there is a sizeable pause after the second otherwise.

And to answer your latter post some of us mains very much did realise that the spam was a problem, I and a couple others on here made a lot of noise over that when lights weren't touched the first time because we felt the nerf to dodge attack damage would only encourage more spammers. Guard stance speed is still a thing but the devs are going to increase the speed of them.

Antonioj26
05-09-2017, 06:37 PM
They added a pretty large window of opportunity if PK's stop after the 2nd Light. You have time to attack them with a Light or Dodge back before they can attack again. Same with ZA, they recovery time after is a large window for the opponent to do something now.

Most toxic? Pretty subjective imo, I have seen toxic players on every class.

I don't think they did when the zone, it's still very safe. True about light spam though

Charmzzz
05-09-2017, 06:40 PM
So Raider is just ****ed :P


fair enough. Thanks mate.

Did you read and understood it? Doesnt look like, no offense.

Light Attack Miss recovery branching into Chained Light Attack delayed by 100ms. MEANS: if a PK misses his first light the second one will come with a delay.
Chained Light Attack recoveries on Interrupt Block increased to 700ms (from 600ms). MEANS: if one Light of the Chain gets blocked: 700ms delay until another attack is possible.
Chained Light Attack recoveries on Hit increased to 700ms (from 500ms). MEANS: same as Light getting blocked, but if it hits.

Zone Attack first strike is now set up as a light attack to trigger an interrupt reaction on block. MEANS: punishable on block.
Cancelling a blocked Zone attack while in Revenge will now force an exit of 600ms preventing you from attacking again. MEANS: no more insane ZA spamming in revenge.
[Bug Fix] Zone Attack UI indicator will now correctly start at the beginning of the animation instead of 100ms later. MEANS: earlier indicator on ZA.

Antonioj26
05-09-2017, 06:45 PM
Did you read and understood it? Doesnt look like, no offense.

Light Attack Miss recovery branching into Chained Light Attack delayed by 100ms. MEANS: if a PK misses his first light the second one will come with a delay.
Chained Light Attack recoveries on Interrupt Block increased to 700ms (from 600ms). MEANS: if one Light of the Chain gets blocked: 700ms delay until another attack is possible.
Chained Light Attack recoveries on Hit increased to 700ms (from 500ms). MEANS: same as Light getting blocked, but if it hits.

Zone Attack first strike is now set up as a light attack to trigger an interrupt reaction on block. MEANS: punishable on block.
Cancelling a blocked Zone attack while in Revenge will now force an exit of 600ms preventing you from attacking again. MEANS: no more insane ZA spamming in revenge.
[Bug Fix] Zone Attack UI indicator will now correctly start at the beginning of the animation instead of 100ms later. MEANS: earlier indicator on ZA.

But it's still not punisable you don't get a free light or a guard break after it so it's still safe even on the block it just has the animation a light attack that's been blocked

Charmzzz
05-09-2017, 06:54 PM
But it's still not punisable you don't get a free light or a guard break after it so it's still safe even on the block it just has the animation a light attack that's been blocked

Not sure about this. But the PK cannot directly chain into Light, so you have time to attack yourself.

Antonioj26
05-09-2017, 06:56 PM
Not sure about this. But the PK cannot directly chain into Light, so you have time to attack yourself.

That means you have frame advantage but doesn't mean punishable. The pk can still dodge or block your attack. Punishable means a guaranteed hit after an attack is evaded or block. Think of wardens zone or conqs shield bash.

Charmzzz
05-09-2017, 07:04 PM
That means you have frame advantage but doesn't mean punishable. The pk can still dodge or block your attack. Punishable means a guaranteed hit after an attack is evaded or block. Think of wardens zone or conqs shield bash.

Well, in comparison that is fine imo. E.g. Warden has other tools to initiate, PK only has standard attacks.

Antonioj26
05-09-2017, 07:07 PM
Well, in comparison that is fine imo. E.g. Warden has other tools to initiate, PK only has standard attacks.

I agree she's been fiddled with the last couple patches so think it's time to let her settle for a bit before there mess with her again. She's in a pretty good place, still high tier but in capable hands where before she had a low skill barrier.

Alustar.
05-09-2017, 07:28 PM
Ok here let me put it this way then, attempting to measure frame rates that you are seeing as a result of the games established animation is wrong. You are arguing the wrong thing. You are basing your perception of the transmission of data as something else entirely.

Player side frame rates are subject to change based on latency issues with communication between peers.

If there are issues with the speed at which data is transferred, asking Ubisoft to pump MORE data through in the same amount of time is not going to solve this issue.

Further the only difference added frame rates will make in modern games is smoother animation. Back in the past when games were 2D and we only ever operated on less than 30fpd then yes, but mot in today's market.

Antonioj26
05-09-2017, 07:38 PM
Ok here let me put it this way then, attempting to measure frame rates that you are seeing as a result of the games established animation is wrong. You are arguing the wrong thing. You are basing your perception of the transmission of data as something else entirely.

Player side frame rates are subject to change based on latency issues with communication between peers.

If there are issues with the speed at which data is transferred, asking Ubisoft to pump MORE data through in the same amount of time is not going to solve this issue.

Further the only difference added frame rates will make in modern games is smoother animation. Back in the past when games were 2D and we only ever operated on less than 30fpd then yes, but mot in today's market.

That long explanation doesn't change anything, a 1 frame difference is all it takes for an attack to either connect or to be blocked. If I can perceive that attack sooner it gives me a better chance.

CandleInTheDark
05-09-2017, 08:01 PM
I agree she's been fiddled with the last couple patches so think it's time to let her settle for a bit before there mess with her again. She's in a pretty good place, still high tier but in capable hands where before she had a low skill barrier.

I am just hoping they have learned lessons with how initially op she was and the hate it caused when they release the new characters. I do feel that if anything it is time to buff the heroes that need it rather than make any more nerfs at least until the defensive meta stuff is settled. What I want to see are (eventually) 18 heroes all with their own kits that are genuine challenges and need smart play to deal with.

BlaqPlague80
05-09-2017, 08:15 PM
If you've invested a huge amount of time to master PK then there's a good chance you can dominate most opponents, even the best players. You dodge (even when out of stamina) and can't be hit, you deflect and punish, dodge and strike heavy attack to light bleed, then dodge back and stay outta of the fight until it suits you.
So if you're facing a great player using PK you're toast, and prior to the nerfs if you were facing a noob you were toast. Basically whenever you saw her pop up as your opponent you chalked up an L. PK quickly became everyone's arch-nemesis.

Still, there's no excuse for players like the one in the video. Fight the fight, if you can't beat the PK take the L and move on. Too many kids and babymen.

Most of the characters have a spam ability that troubles one particular class more than others. As a Nobushi main I seem to be currently struggling with Orochi top light to AoE spam. It sure pisses me off, but it's up to me to problem solve those that do it knowing that most of them do it because they realize I'm struggling to defend against it. And who chooses the hard W over the easy W?

kweassa1917
05-09-2017, 08:21 PM
I am just hoping they have learned lessons with how initially op she was and the hate it caused when they release the new characters. I do feel that if anything it is time to buff the heroes that need it rather than make any more nerfs at least until the defensive meta stuff is settled. What I want to see are (eventually) 18 heroes all with their own kits that are genuine challenges and need smart play to deal with.

Let's be realistic here, Candle. ;) With roguish types, "hate" is something that follows you around like a brand. So usually it's better to enjoy it -- as in, all good "rogue" players in any games usually consider all the hate speeches, curse mails, frowny emogees, middle fingers and etc etc.. as high form of praise... sorta like trophies. I think it rates up there at no.1 tied with "you're a hack, you're cheating" accusations. Anyone who gets that stuff should take a screenshot and hang it in one's Hall of Fame.

For many people, there isn't even a consistent reason.

-- If you kill many enemies, you're hated because you're a selfish score-padder
-- If you help out your friends, you're an opportunistic kill stealer
-- If you let your friends fight on their own, then you're a non-cooperative arsehole
-- If you stay and fight at bad odds, but still win, then you're a hack
-- If you run from bad odds, then you're a coward
-- If you stay and fight under equal odds, but lose, then "you can't do shi* on 1v1, huh lol"
-- If you stay and fight under badd odds, but lose, then "you arrogant f**k, you think you're so good you can win this?"

People will hate you for reasons that aren't consistent, nor any reason at all in the first place. That's "rogues" for you.


Ah, the life of a roguish class. :rolleyes:

CandleInTheDark
05-09-2017, 08:23 PM
If you've invested a huge amount of time to master PK then there's a good chance you can dominate most opponents, even the best players. You dodge (even when out of stamina) and can't be hit, you deflect and punish, dodge and strike heavy attack to light bleed, then dodge back and stay outta of the fight until it suits you.
So if you're facing a great player using PK you're toast, and prior to the nerfs if you were facing a noob you were toast. Basically whenever you saw her pop up as your opponent you chalked up an L. PK quickly became everyone's arch-nemesis.

Still, there's no excuse for players like the one in the video. Fight the fight, if you can't beat the PK take the L and move on. Too many kids and babymen.

Most of the characters have a spam ability that troubles one particular class more than others. As a Nobushi main I seem to be currently struggling with Orochi top light to AoE spam. It sure pisses me off, but it's up to me to problem solve those that do it knowing that most of them do it because they realize I'm struggling to defend against it. And who chooses the hard W over the easy W?

Exactly this.I just faced a warlord. Like a lot of people I struggled with the headbutt, but I have never called for nerfs, never waited for someone to fix it for me, I spent a lot of time watching the signs that it was coming and my last one, five rounds, I didn't get hit by a single headbutt. And yeah they hav good tools like you say, you can add feinting and the stance switch being quick enough a heavy is a real possibility. I think there is a higher skill level now you can't whip off six lights in a row but I have never been one who has said the light nerf made her trash tier.. It is kind of what I worry about with the shinobi, I am hoping that there are no real easy answers otherwise it defeats the purpose of most of the kit taking a high skill level as the devs say it does, we don't want another situation where a good shinobi player gets no credit because it's the shinobi.

CandleInTheDark
05-09-2017, 08:24 PM
Let's be realistic here, Candle. ;) With roguish types, "hate" is something that follows you around like a brand. So usually it's better to enjoy it -- as in, all good "rogue" players in any games usually consider all the hate speeches, curse mails, frowny emogees, middle fingers and etc etc.. as high form of praise... sorta like trophies. I think it rates up there at no.1 tied with "you're a hack, you're cheating" accusations. Anyone who gets that stuff should take a screenshot and hang it in one's Hall of Fame.

For many people, there isn't even a consistent reason.

-- If you kill many enemies, you're hated because you're a selfish score-padder
-- If you help out your friends, you're an opportunistic kill stealer
-- If you let your friends fight on their own, then you're a non-cooperative arsehole
-- If you stay and fight at bad odds, but still win, then you're a hack
-- If you run from bad odds, then you're a coward
-- If you stay and fight under equal odds, but lose, then "you can't do shi* on 1v1, huh lol"
-- If you stay and fight under badd odds, but lose, then "you arrogant f**k, you think you're so good you can win this?"

People will hate you for reasons that aren't consistent, nor any reason at all in the first place. That's "rogues" for you.


Ah, the life of a roguish class. :rolleyes:

LOL! >.> I used to get rid of my xbox hatemail, I need to not do this in future.

Alustar.
05-09-2017, 08:50 PM
But it's not an issue regarding frame rate, it's data transfer. Your perception of it being frame rate is wrong.

That's like sitting in a doctors office and she says, "on gonna test your reflexes. Got a light indicator that will flash 10 blinks a second. Well start at an average pace, half a second then a static shock will be administered for failed attempts."

So you try several times and fail each one the doc says "ok let's try something, maybe increase-"
And you cut her off "exactly it's not fast enough, increase the blinks per second."

Another example is when I would game on my old pc. Some games I could put into low render mode, effectively capping the frames per second that were calculated. It didn't make me faster or give me advanced notice over other players. It reduced the stress on my processor and GPU when calculating animation since it didn't have to render all 60 in a second.

Antonioj26
05-09-2017, 09:06 PM
But it's not an issue regarding frame rate, it's data transfer. Your perception of it being frame rate is wrong.

That's like sitting in a doctors office and she says, "on gonna test your reflexes. Got a light indicator that will flash 10 blinks a second. Well start at an average pace, half a second then a static shock will be administered for failed attempts."

So you try several times and fail each one the doc says "ok let's try something, maybe increase-"
And you cut her off "exactly it's not fast enough, increase the blinks per second."

Another example is when I would game on my old pc. Some games I could put into low render mode, effectively capping the frames per second that were calculated. It didn't make me faster or give me advanced notice over other players. It reduced the stress on my processor and GPU when calculating animation since it didn't have to render all 60 in a second.

I'll be honest I don't know much about frame rate and data transfer but I do know that I can tell the difference when I'm playing a game at 30 fps or 60 fps. Even when I'm watching for honor videos of PC players everything seems more far more reactable and if it were the same on my PS4 I'd be getting a lot more light parries.

Alustar.
05-09-2017, 09:13 PM
Let's be realistic here, Candle. ;) With roguish types, "hate" is something that follows you around like a brand. So usually it's better to enjoy it -- as in, all good "rogue" players in any games usually consider all the hate speeches, curse mails, frowny emogees, middle fingers and etc etc.. as high form of praise... sorta like trophies. I think it rates up there at no.1 tied with "you're a hack, you're cheating" accusations. Anyone who gets that stuff should take a screenshot and hang it in one's Hall of Fame.

For many people, there isn't even a consistent reason.

-- If you kill many enemies, you're hated because you're a selfish score-padder
-- If you help out your friends, you're an opportunistic kill stealer
-- If you let your friends fight on their own, then you're a non-cooperative arsehole
-- If you stay and fight at bad odds, but still win, then you're a hack
-- If you run from bad odds, then you're a coward
-- If you stay and fight under equal odds, but lose, then "you can't do shi* on 1v1, huh lol"
-- If you stay and fight under badd odds, but lose, then "you arrogant f**k, you think you're so good you can win this?"

People will hate you for reasons that aren't consistent, nor any reason at all in the first place. That's "rogues" for you.


Ah, the life of a roguish class. :rolleyes:

This pretty much summed up my play history as a rogue class.

first time I'd beat someone they would cry cause gear. I duel without it then it's my spec. I change specs and then it's cause I'm hacking.
Never mind the fact that I'd been spending the past 3+ yrs prior doing nothing but pvp groups and running around the open world solo, flagged and ready for a fight.

From my experience playing an assassin class takes a patient, adaptable mentality. Typically rogues are played by more experienced players, because it's not as easy as running your tankier characters.

Alustar.
05-09-2017, 09:26 PM
I'll be honest I don't know much about frame rate and data transfer but I do know that I can tell the difference when I'm playing a game at 30 fps or 60 fps. Even when I'm watching for honor videos of PC players everything seems more far more reactable and if it were the same on my PS4 I'd be getting a lot more light parries.

There is a reason for that, and it's not the reason you think(not trying to be condescending, just trying to help)

Ok so imagine this hypothetical situation.

A system running the game sends a signal that your character is going to attack from position 1. By the time you've sent that data and my console has interpreted it, the systems Only have a few frames worth of time to animate that sequence.
The difference between registering when a hit is actuated is caused by the different rates in which PC and consoles transmit and receive this data. Additionally most everything on a pc is wired. There is no dead air to cause a breakdown of the signal.
Think about how much more time it takes for the signal to go from your wireless controller, through your system and hopefully off into the net. That's assuming you are running a corded Ethernet set up.
Bottom line. Unless everything in your system is hard wired. You have extra milliseconds tacked onto an already limited connection through the PS4 capabilities.

Alustar.
05-09-2017, 09:30 PM
Also bear in mind, I'm not saying there isn't a difference in speeds and registry. Just that those frame rate discrepancies are a result of the varied rate of data transfer, not the cause.

Antonioj26
05-09-2017, 09:37 PM
What your describing sounds more like input delay than a distinction between fps. I don't think you are coming off as condescending and I hope I'm not either

FluffyCub228188
05-09-2017, 09:42 PM
And where is YOUR Data that shows "PK = OP"? Where is it?

Correct, PK WAS banned from Console Tournaments. 2 Patches ago. PK got nerfed in those 2 Patches, Light and ZA Spam - nerfed and counterable now. Still people complain about it? Sorry, but that is really a "get gud" issue then. If you face a PK spamming Light's / ZA: PUNISH him after every Light-Light, you have enough time now. The recovery is huge.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/149765705@N03/shares/9AK76Z


No Offense but this is me on PK, for not long at all. Not knowing how to play her really. For every game on console; I didn't need any feints, parries, etc... I could beat every player I played against with nothing but light attacks very easily. These weren't new players either, they were almost always rep 1s and much higher. I'm not trying to brag but I play a lot of top tier players and they could not handle the light attacks. Peacekeeper mains need to realize she is still a little broken for console at least.

Alustar.
05-09-2017, 09:48 PM
Input delay plays into it as well, but what I meant was if my console only transfers let's say just randomly 60bits per second and my animation runs at 60 fps, assuming that each frame takes up a full bit of data, that would leave no room for the rest of the information needed to calculate. That excess of data being sent and received is what is causing the delay on consoles. Couple that like you said with input delays and yeah, it's a big issue.
Honestly I tip my hat to Ubisoft for being able to do this game as well as they are.
I would hazard against the increase of fps only because I fear it would stress the system more than it is.

SendRickPics
05-10-2017, 12:08 AM
You're not on console talking like that. A good pk on console is GG. They decide when they want to engage and disengage from a fight.

Guess again, Sweetheart. :rolleyes:

Alustar.
05-10-2017, 12:32 AM
I want to know why people think that the game is so wildly different on PC versus consoles. If anything the difference is in the players involved. PC players typically don't play the same games most console players do. It's not like someone's going to boot up a fresh rig install For Honor and log in to a completely different game.

Antonioj26
05-10-2017, 12:57 AM
I want to know why people think that the game is so wildly different on PC versus consoles. If anything the difference is in the players involved. PC players typically don't play the same games most console players do. It's not like someone's going to boot up a fresh rig install For Honor and log in to a completely different game.

It's not a matter of thinking, it's knowing. The defense meta doesn't exist on console for the most part and Valkyrie is considered on the higher end of the tier list. Input lag, deadzone, and fps (or data transfer) makes a huge difference. Certain attacks become unreactable or far more difficult. Also from what I understand unless you have a higher end tv there's a bit more lag. All this combined changes quite a bit of the way the game is played.