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theco
03-21-2004, 08:39 PM
I was dogfighting a P80 with my go 229 and recording the track. After the fight, I reviewed the track and was surprised to see that the P 80 had taken 6 MK103 hits, and as far as I could see, it was unscathed. Wierd, huh?

P.S. Thanks to who ever modeled the go 229, it's awsome!

[This message was edited by theco on Sun March 21 2004 at 08:01 PM.]

theco
03-21-2004, 08:39 PM
I was dogfighting a P80 with my go 229 and recording the track. After the fight, I reviewed the track and was surprised to see that the P 80 had taken 6 MK103 hits, and as far as I could see, it was unscathed. Wierd, huh?

P.S. Thanks to who ever modeled the go 229, it's awsome!

[This message was edited by theco on Sun March 21 2004 at 08:01 PM.]

theco
03-21-2004, 09:09 PM
bump http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

JR_Greenhorn
03-21-2004, 09:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by theco:
Thanks to who ever modeled the go 229, it's awsome!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Gibbage did the 3D modeling for the Go 229.
Gibbage's Website (http://www.gibbageart.com/)

WUAF_Badsight
03-21-2004, 10:11 PM
http://www.imageshack.us/img2/4871/NoNoseP80_1.jpg

robban75
03-22-2004, 03:29 AM
The P-80 feels very arcadish, It doesn't stall/spin and it has equal or better low speed turning ability than a Fw 190. But that's just my impressions.

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

Magister__Ludi
03-22-2004, 03:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
The P-80 feels very arcadish, It doesn't stall/spin and it has equal or better low speed turning ability than a Fw 190. But that's just my impressions.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Right now P-80 makes a turn in 20 sec with full fuel (18 sec with 25% fuel, just like a Spit V). It might be realistic though.

Stall speed however is surely not. 170km/h clean right now (with full fuel!!), I don't know the exact value, but it should be around 220-240km/h.

Also climb rate at full fuel is wrong. In reality it climbed at 4000fpm, in the game it gets 6000fpm!!! this is especially disappointing.

Kurfurst__
03-22-2004, 06:23 AM
Yep, I find it a bit overmodelled in this respects just as well. It`s a true for many of the new flyable planes as well, I guess there was enormous amount of e-mail whining to Oleg to make the new planes perfect, because every one of them had "excellent stall characteristics", was "very easy to fly", had "legendary firepower", was a "very stable gun platform", could "turn inside anything on the opposing side", "nothing could roll with" it etc. etc. etc. The new "legendary" status planes feel to me a bit overoptimistically modelled in handling and toughnes.

Indeed the stall speed is way too low for such a wingloading, and laminar foils which not exacly imporove handling but only high speed drag... the roll rate is also quite a bit off, it`s easily 160-180 degree/sec at near ground level instead of about 120 deg/sec (160 deg/sec was measured on YP-80 at 40 000 feet only, but roll rate increases with altitude).

Damage model, I got mixed results, this case of taking six MK 103 rounds is next to impossible, unless you hit it with only AP rounds.. in another flgiht in Me 262, I could blow the YP-80 away with a single burst of the MK 108 battery though... so...? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/53.gif

Maple_Tiger
03-22-2004, 02:19 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
The P-80 feels very arcadish, It doesn't stall/spin and it has equal or better low speed turning ability than a Fw 190. But that's just my impressions.

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Considering that the FW has terrible low speed handling... i wonder why? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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TAGERT.
03-22-2004, 05:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www.imageshack.us/img2/4871/NoNoseP80_1.jpg
WOW! Your Ping Sucks! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif What would really be bad here is if you still had guns that worked! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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TAGERT

Copperhead310th
03-22-2004, 07:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
The P-80 feels very arcadish, It doesn't stall/spin and it has equal or better low speed turning ability than a Fw 190. But that's just my impressions.

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol your only pissed cause it OWNZ EVERY LW Jet/rocket in the game. lol

sob sob cry me a handfull http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

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theco
03-22-2004, 08:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> lol your only pissed cause it OWNZ EVERY LW Jet/rocket in the game. lol

sob sob cry me a handfull
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Every plane but the go 229. That p 80 I went agianst was on ace difficulty, and the 229 could out manuver it easy. (I would play online but none of the servers allow it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif )

The thing that really gets me about the p 80 is that it wont stall. The go229 on the other hand, well, you know. (It never got into a spin during the test flights)

How do you tell if you are using AP rounds?

BlitzPig_DDT
03-22-2004, 10:13 PM
It didn't spin in the test flights because they were a might bit more conservative with it than players of this game. There is no reason for it not to spin. And, it's difficult to get out of a spin (not impossible - you just need time, time = alt of course).

The YP-80 most certainly will stall. It'll spin too. It's all in the pilot and how the plane is used.

The AI suck in jets BTW. I can pwnz 4 Ace AI YP-80s with a 262, or a 162, or a 229. In fact, I can pwnz any Ace AI jet with any other. AI is easy to begin with, but they suck particularly in jets for some reason. I've had better, more entertaining fights in the QMB going jet on prop than jet on jet. The Ace Yak3s fight till the last part stops workin' and they don't try long lazy extensions eitehr.

This same thing holds true online. stat for stat, the 262 is the underdog, but in the right position (and hands), it'll make incandescent balls of gas of anything, even YP-80s.

The 162 is good at survival, but the guns suck.

The 262 might be a bit slow, or the YP-80 fast, in how they are modeled vs how they should be, but in all, the jets seem basically dead on. All of them.

==================================
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WUAF_Badsight
03-22-2004, 10:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:

lol your only pissed cause it OWNZ EVERY LW Jet/rocket in the game. lol

sob sob cry me a handfull http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


nice Mature way to post there CopperHead

do you have anything to add about how accurately the P-80 is moddeled besides putting Robban down ?

faustnik
03-22-2004, 10:27 PM
Don't forget the Me262's one HUGE advantage:
The Me262 saw combat during WWII.

All the other jets are just "might have beens".

The P-80 did prove itself a good a/c in Korea. It does a nice job against the Yak-9s in QMB missions http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif.

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robban75
03-23-2004, 03:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
lol your only pissed cause it OWNZ EVERY LW Jet/rocket in the game. lol

sob sob cry me a handfull http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Great reply, thanks! Why this outburst? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

How about explaining to me why it shouldn't stall/spin instead, and that it was actually impossible to spin it in RL aswell..

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

When it comes to aircombat, I'd rather be lucky than good any day!

Fehler
03-23-2004, 06:41 AM
The AI sure does fly this thing badly. take one against a Gladiator and get it down low. Make it slow down by getting it into a turn fight, and the YP-80 will try and scissor fight you!

Then all you have to do is plink away with snapshots. The YP-80 will fall out of the sky eventually. It's kind of funny.

And Copperhead, why do you think you are funny? You add nothing to the conversation. Try playing your life in real mode and not on the same arcade settings you fly in..

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HarryVoyager
03-23-2004, 07:12 AM
The P-80 rarely stalls, because the P-80 rarely can achieve a high enough AoA to stall, before G lock sets in. Take a good look at the turn radius of the aircraft in normal combat turns to see what I am talking about.

It is quite possible to put the YP-80 into a flat spin in this game, I did it myself, in testing an interesting problem with the K-14 gunsight.

Many of the problem people have with the P-80's flight model stem for its being an exceptionally clean aircraft, with little messing up its flight. It has almost no torque effect, due to it only being powered by a jet engine, which gives it very little tendancy to roll in a stall. There are no prop wash effects with the wings. It doesn't have many protrusions breaking up the airflow. All it has is a thing putting out thrust along the axis of the aircraft's center of mass, which is placed very close to the aircraft's center axis of drag.

Aerodynamically, it is one of the simplest aircraft in the game; it just doesn't have that much going on, and its flight model reflects that.

Now, as for its climb rate being to high, that probably shouldbe looked into. My suspicion would be that the aircraft may have to much effective thrust in the game, or not enough effective drag, or some combination of the two. This game has never really handled jets well, however.

As for Copperheads comments, those of us who are not terribly fond of German aircraft in general have had to suffer through innumerable tirades of how the German jets were the best aircraft to ever see combat. On many points, the complaints against the YP-80 do sound like people complaining merely because their favorite aircraft is not the unsurpased aircraft on the game.

Harry Voyager

BlitzPig_DDT
03-23-2004, 08:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HarryVoyager:
On many points, the complaints against the YP-80 do sound like people complaining merely because their favorite aircraft is not the unsurpased aircraft on the game.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not that the reds ever complained about LW aircraft. Afterall, they clearly couldn't take off on their own. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

==================================
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theco
03-23-2004, 03:10 PM
Thanks for the info on the P 80! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif You're probable right, as I have not had much time to play the game.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>All the other jets are just "might have beens". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ture, but the Horton IX V2 did fly, and the Horton IX v3 (go229) is rotting in Maryland.

check HERE (http://www.aviation-history.com/garber/vg-bldg/vindex.html) (scroll till you get to horten)

Call_me_Kanno
03-23-2004, 05:09 PM
A Me-262's 30mm cannon's done this to my YP-80. Lucky to have made it home. As you can see, it very damagable...lol.
http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v22/Kanno/YP-80_with_damaged_tail_controls-2.jpg

Call_me_Kanno
03-23-2004, 05:12 PM
http://img5.photobucket.com/albums/v22/Kanno/YP-80_with_damaged_tail_controls-3.jpg

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Kurfurst__
03-24-2004, 02:54 AM
Qestion is, how the heck could a plane fly with half the horizontal, and the ENTIRE vertical surface blown off ?!! And this is a general problem, I had this dogfight with a Ki-84(but replace w. any other plane), after I shredded its tail in a similiar manner, it continoued to manouver w/o too much of a problem... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

NorrisMcWhirter
03-24-2004, 10:27 AM
"lol your only pissed cause it OWNZ EVERY LW Jet/rocket in the game. lol

sob sob cry me a handfull http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif"

Yeah, that's why I bagged 4 ace P-80s in QMB with the Go-Go girl. I had an 'average' AI wingman who never broke away during the engagement.

It took just a few hits from those cannons and the P80s *exploded*

I was crying alright.

Crying with laughter.

Cheers,
Norris


================================================== ==========

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BlitzPig_DDT
03-24-2004, 11:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Qestion is, how the heck could a plane fly with half the horizontal, and the ENTIRE vertical surface blown off ?!! And this is a general problem, I had this dogfight with a Ki-84(but replace w. any other plane), after I shredded its tail in a similiar manner, it continoued to manouver w/o too much of a problem... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very carefully. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

As long as it has at least 1 h-stab, it could continue to fly so long as the pilot didn't try anything aggressive.

It would be unstable about the Yaw axis, but, it could be reasonably controlled via roll. In fact, it could even be landed like that. Again though, long, gentle moves are the key. If you get behind a plane like that, or if you get into a crosswind, forget it. Even violent turbulence might ruin it's day. Especially on landing. Fortunately (well, in this case I guess lol), we don't have to deal with weather or related issues in AEP.

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Gibbage1
03-24-2004, 01:44 PM
I have landed a Mig-3 with no tail. Very difficult, but not impossible. When my wheels touched down, I was going sideways! I was very interesting. Ther are photo's of a B17 that made it home sans most of its tail. Its possible.

PzKpfw
03-24-2004, 03:24 PM
I flew a Fw 190A-4 back today with similar damage as in that SS, just had to work the stick lightly for like 20 mins then land http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Regards, John Waters

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