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WFL_M4sT3R_
05-07-2017, 09:39 PM
Simple, Valkyre is OP, do something about it.... No way to block, its very hard, combos that count 5+ hits etc... Its getting seriously annoying.

Charmzzz
05-07-2017, 09:56 PM
Valk is so easy to punish and really predictable. Mid-Tier atm. Learn to play issue, sorry pal...

Joseph_2017
05-07-2017, 10:06 PM
Simple, Valkyre is OP, do something about it.... No way to block, its very hard, combos that count 5+ hits etc... Its getting seriously annoying.

Yeah there's gonna be guys that say "Get good", anyways I know what you mean a good valk can throws some swift lights and feints. Every now and then I'll take a loss from even a Bot Valk. As a heavy I usually try to trade with them and seems to be effective, idk what you play but you just got to find a legit way to approach them because they have the ability to pressure. I also doubt the devs would nerf her.

Mia.Nora
05-07-2017, 11:29 PM
I dont think she is OP, more like every other character's kit so empty that her full kit feels like overloaded. Same issue is apparent with warlord too.

If anything it is a matter of every other character having a very shallow kit.

UbiJurassic
05-08-2017, 12:05 AM
We keep a pretty close eye on all the heroes when we start considering changes that need to be made for a future balance patch. We haven't done much to Valkyrie in the past few patches, but she may see changes in the future. We'll continue watching her data and listening to player feedback so we can get the best picture for her future direction.

Moondyne_MC
05-08-2017, 03:47 AM
Rather than straight up win-rates, I wish Ubi would look more at "attacks launched" vs "attacks blocked/dodged/parried". I was pretty surprised when they revealed the PK win rate was actually lower on console, but I imagine if they could look at the data for how frequently PK/Valk lights connect, I imagine they'd find them to be much higher than anyone else's.

Hell, I can easily parry Warden lights with consistency, but can't even block PK/Valk lights. The indicator simply isn't visible for long enough, it needs to start earlier.

Egotistic_Ez
05-08-2017, 04:17 AM
Valk is so easy to punish and really predictable. Mid-Tier atm. Learn to play issue, sorry pal...

Maybe for the three people still playing ezmode on pc. Over here on console where the game is actually played valk lights are quite hard to block. I wouldn't go so far as to say OP, but she is top tier.

bananaflow2017
05-08-2017, 07:37 AM
Hi sry for your experience first.
I main valk and i understand the trouble people have with her (playing in Xbox)
I hab have a cool match against nearly every class but there are still some tricks you can do to beat my *** up or make me have a really hard time.
First Trick: block right or Left to stand Open für my Overhead light.
The thing is that my atack options are pretty rare and when there is a distance between us my Overhead light is my only option to atack u. The Risk of my jump atacks are pretty high cuz when u block it it's a free gb for you.
I understand lights are fast but manageble. I Really often face wardens just parrying my second light. The result is an Overhead heavy against me.
When you dodge my sweep it'sa free gb.
When you dodge my shield/shoulder bash it's a free gb.
So conclusion: just be a Turtle ******* and you can get a valk. Really it doesnt matter anything.
Just had an elimination match against a hard Turtle warden.
The valk that played with me was a really hard beast and i Play pretty decent i can say.
This warden just beat both of ja up just with turteling and parrying. First he beated my friend and then me without getting a Single hit.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-08-2017, 07:44 AM
Valkyrie overall is not OP.


Her ability to infinitely juggle you with her Bash + Sweep is OP. Its like the Conqueror bash combo except it can't be avoided.



And before some dude tries to be edgy and says "Duuuuuhhh just side step bruh and Git Guud" it has already been shown in multiple threads that the combo can be done in such a way as to make it impossible to be avoided and you will keep getting stumbled, swept and hit until you die or she runs out of Stamina.


Fix that and you fix Valkyrie as far as I am concerned.

bananaflow2017
05-08-2017, 08:21 AM
Valkyrie overall is not OP.


Her ability to infinitely juggle you with her Bash + Sweep is OP. Its like the Conqueror bash combo except it can't be avoided.



And before some dude tries to be edgy and says "Duuuuuhhh just side step bruh and Git Guud" it has already been shown in multiple threads that the combo can be done in such a way as to make it impossible to be avoided and you will keep getting stumbled, swept and hit until you die or she runs out of Stamina.


Fix that and you fix Valkyrie as far as I am concerned.

Good point. I tottally forgot about it. Im not dat vortex spammer so i forgot about that.

A point for balancing in the actual Situation:
Oh doesnt make that much sense to Balance while the Turtle Meta problem is still not fixed. Cuz when u fix before it you can balance again:(. It will only make sense when it's a really broken mechanic like mentioned above.

But I guess this vortex doesnt work against all characters. I think asassins can get out of it.

WFL_M4sT3R_
05-08-2017, 03:44 PM
We keep a pretty close eye on all the heroes when we start considering changes that need to be made for a future balance patch. We haven't done much to Valkyrie in the past few patches, but she may see changes in the future. We'll continue watching her data and listening to player feedback so we can get the best picture for her future direction.

Thats what i really hope so and what i even mentioned in earlier posts,. Thank you!

Pope138
05-08-2017, 04:35 PM
We keep a pretty close eye on all the heroes when we start considering changes that need to be made for a future balance patch. We haven't done much to Valkyrie in the past few patches, but she may see changes in the future. We'll continue watching her data and listening to player feedback so we can get the best picture for her future direction.

Please don't. I feel like you guys put too much stock in the complaints made about character balance. It seems like a lot of players don't have the patience to learn how to counter all the different heroes and just dismiss them as unbalanced. I'm worried that eventually it'll completely dilute the variety of characters and water-down the gameplay.
I struggle against the Valk as well, but after just a couple of hours practicing against a lvl 3 Valk-bot I've improved quite a bit and now she seems very balanced to me.

Some changes have been great, don't get me wrong, I just hope you're listening to pro playtesters more than frustrated gamers on the web.

AKDagriZ
05-08-2017, 08:36 PM
We keep a pretty close eye on all the heroes when we start considering changes that need to be made for a future balance patch. We haven't done much to Valkyrie in the past few patches, but she may see changes in the future. We'll continue watching her data and listening to player feedback so we can get the best picture for her future direction.

you wanna look deeper let her feint her lights or either remove that recovery frame from blocked light attack that give a free GB.
You cannot use your heavy in fear of being parry guardbreak+free hit.On top of that you will get free gb on light blocked !
This is the main reason why she is not viable on the competiton scene.Because at high level you pretty much don't use the spear sweep her heavy opener are slow and light attack can be punished

Here is a good example this berserker used it well , he beated me 3 match in a row 3 to nothing each time : he get free gb out of deflect , free gb out of parry and free gb out of light attack .I finnally won the 4th match 3-2 i needed all my coins collection. see it for yourself worst is at 1m:12s and 2m:26s :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fWwSbeJXOA

Dakaal
05-08-2017, 10:04 PM
I main Valkyrie, and her sweep/shield bush combo dose NO DMG and consume a lot of stamina. OFC u can combo and get some DMG from it but if u nerf Valkyrie like it use to be when the game lunch you get no where, First we need a rethink about the Turtle Meta, SOMETHING that i can't beat at all it's the conqueror, he can block my lights so easy and i can't do my combos

i think the other classes need more moves in they'r arsenal, Warden for example do the same move over and over again, the Conquer the same, PK still spams light attacks

We.the.North
05-08-2017, 10:49 PM
I main Valkyrie and I'm a pretty decent one at that :
https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/We.the.North/heroes

The first thing you need to get better is to learn how to punish each character for their mistake. If you block / parry / etc. and dont take advantage from it, you just put the fight back to "neutral" and nobody came out on top. That being said, here is how you punish a Valkyrie : she has horrible recovery time and thus, is easily guard breakable.

#1 : Blocking a Light Attack will give you a free guard break on her.
#2 : Dodging the Shield Bash or the Leg Sweep will give you a free guard break on her :

Which character are you playing ?? Some characters can do an unblockable side heavy while others can only do a light attack. Also, some characters can do a top heavy if they can throw the Valkyrie into a wall. Top heavy is usually the strongest attack for most characters.

#3 : Her Heavies deal so little damage, so most Valkyrie only use heavy attacks after a guard break or leg sweep.

In other words, if you see the Valkyrie start a heavy attack animation, it'll almost always be a feint or it'll be cancelled into a shield bash. Bear in mind, if she shield bashes you while you had some distance between you two, you should recover in time to dodge the following leg sweep (+ guard break her !!)

#4 : Her zone attack is very slow and her only gap closer is a top attack

In other words, try to keep your guard up. Then, throw some feints and see if she's a dash+light addict. Those dash + light are much easier to react to than straight up light attacks (because you'll see the direction she dashes into before she attacks). Again, if you block that dash + light attack : Guard break + heavy attack on her. And also remember, some characters do more damage if after the guard break, you throw the Valkyrie into a wall then use a top heavy attack.

#5 : Dont try to parry a Valkyrie

It's not worth it unless you are a Lawbringer (who gets bonuses after a parry from feats and an unblockable top heavy that deals a ton of damage). Other characters after a parry will just guard break and punish as normal, most often with a side heavy ... so why risk the parry ?? A Valkyrie out of stamina can still dash away and recover from exhaustion easily. So just do normal block and guard break.

#6 : After a successful pounce attack, almost all Valkyrie will hit from the left or right on the 2nd light attack

If your having trouble reacting in time to her attack, take a guess. Randomly block left or right and you'll have a 50% chance to guess correctly ... which will lead to a block + guard break + heavy which will outdamage the pounce attack and you'll come back on top.

-------------------------------------

That's basically it. Against a Valkyrie, you are going to eat some light attacks ; but you need to punish every block / dodge you do with a guard break + heavy attack, which should out damage her.

Rikuto01.tv
05-08-2017, 11:02 PM
We keep a pretty close eye on all the heroes when we start considering changes that need to be made for a future balance patch. We haven't done much to Valkyrie in the past few patches, but she may see changes in the future. We'll continue watching her data and listening to player feedback so we can get the best picture for her future direction.

Dont take this the wrong way, but if the data you guys regularly looked at gave all the answers PK wouldn't be banned on console. Yet, she is.

I'd consider looking at whats going on outside the data.


Similarly, in console tournaments just about everyone has a pocket Valkyrie similar to how everyone used to have a pocket Shugoki, and before that everyone had a pocket PK. Your data may accurately cover what happens during casual matches among lower level players, but it doesn't cover what's going on during tournaments.

AKDagriZ
05-08-2017, 11:41 PM
I main Valkyrie and I'm a pretty decent one at that :
https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/We.the.North/heroes

The first thing you need to get better is to learn how to punish each character for their mistake. If you block / parry / etc. and dont take advantage from it, you just put the fight back to "neutral" and nobody came out on top. That being said, here is how you punish a Valkyrie : she has horrible recovery time and thus, is easily guard breakable.

#1 : Blocking a Light Attack will give you a free guard break on her.
#2 : Dodging the Shield Bash or the Leg Sweep will give you a free guard break on her :

Which character are you playing ?? Some characters can do an unblockable side heavy while others can only do a light attack. Also, some characters can do a top heavy if they can throw the Valkyrie into a wall. Top heavy is usually the strongest attack for most characters.

#3 : Her Heavies deal so little damage, so most Valkyrie only use heavy attacks after a guard break or leg sweep.

In other words, if you see the Valkyrie start a heavy attack animation, it'll almost always be a feint or it'll be cancelled into a shield bash. Bear in mind, if she shield bashes you while you had some distance between you two, you should recover in time to dodge the following leg sweep (+ guard break her !!)

#4 : Her zone attack is very slow and her only gap closer is a top attack

In other words, try to keep your guard up. Then, throw some feints and see if she's a dash+light addict. Those dash + light are much easier to react to than straight up light attacks (because you'll see the direction she dashes into before she attacks). Again, if you block that dash + light attack : Guard break + heavy attack on her. And also remember, some characters do more damage if after the guard break, you throw the Valkyrie into a wall then use a top heavy attack.

#5 : Dont try to parry a Valkyrie

It's not worth it unless you are a Lawbringer (who gets bonuses after a parry from feats and an unblockable top heavy that deals a ton of damage). Other characters after a parry will just guard break and punish as normal, most often with a side heavy ... so why risk the parry ?? A Valkyrie out of stamina can still dash away and recover from exhaustion easily. So just do normal block and guard break.

#6 : After a successful pounce attack, almost all Valkyrie will hit from the left or right on the 2nd light attack

If your having trouble reacting in time to her attack, take a guess. Randomly block left or right and you'll have a 50% chance to guess correctly ... which will lead to a block + guard break + heavy which will outdamage the pounce attack and you'll come back on top.

-------------------------------------

That's basically it. Against a Valkyrie, you are going to eat some light attacks ; but you need to punish every block / dodge you do with a guard break + heavy attack, which should out damage her.

yeap , just to emphasis on your statement :

valk has no reliable ZA ,
no throw stun ,
her deflect + heavy is not guaranteed ,
gap closer top light = free gb on block
most of her parries give you any free reward
you cannot feint a heavy+shield crush because your gonna hit the opponent missed parry rigth thru
either you whiff a heavy in the air to try(or wish)to follow with a light . or you try 2 random light . at the end most of your opener have to be air whiffed
An average good player will block all your light , you will never be able to connect a light after a shield crush to gain a xtra hit before the sweep

at the end against average good player you either have to air attack to perform something or bet your money on wearing em off one light attack at the time

JohnWick87
05-08-2017, 11:45 PM
All the dashclasses need a remake... best thiing, would be to take it out of the game (I know, not possible) but this is the most abusive technique ever. Besides zonespamming and flickering

UbiJurassic
05-09-2017, 12:47 AM
Please don't. I feel like you guys put too much stock in the complaints made about character balance. It seems like a lot of players don't have the patience to learn how to counter all the different heroes and just dismiss them as unbalanced. I'm worried that eventually it'll completely dilute the variety of characters and water-down the gameplay.
I struggle against the Valk as well, but after just a couple of hours practicing against a lvl 3 Valk-bot I've improved quite a bit and now she seems very balanced to me.

Some changes have been great, don't get me wrong, I just hope you're listening to pro playtesters more than frustrated gamers on the web.


Dont take this the wrong way, but if the data you guys regularly looked at gave all the answers PK wouldn't be banned on console. Yet, she is.

I'd consider looking at whats going on outside the data.


Similarly, in console tournaments just about everyone has a pocket Valkyrie similar to how everyone used to have a pocket Shugoki, and before that everyone had a pocket PK. Your data may accurately cover what happens during casual matches among lower level players, but it doesn't cover what's going on during tournaments.

We do regularly watch the For Honor tournaments organized by the community and feel that their gameplay and opinions are important in shaping balance in the game. Recently, we had top community members, who organize these tournaments, visit the studio and give us their feedback. We're looking to get as many sides as possible to get the best picture of the game's balance within For Honor.

dekot11
05-09-2017, 01:01 AM
yeap , just to emphasis on your statement :

valk has no reliable ZA ,
no throw stun ,
her deflect + heavy is not guaranteed ,
gap closer top light = free gb on block
most of her parries give you any free reward
you cannot feint a heavy+shield crush because your gonna hit the opponent missed parry rigth thru
either you whiff a heavy in the air to try(or wish)to follow with a light . or you try 2 random light . at the end most of your opener have to be air whiffed
An average good player will block all your light , you will never be able to connect a light after a shield crush to gain a xtra hit before the sweep

at the end against average good player you either have to air attack to perform something or bet your money on wearing em off one light attack at the time

hey she sounds like the worst hero ever, I'm sure no one will ever use her, except for all the guys with a burly girl fetish

AKDagriZ
05-09-2017, 03:25 AM
hey she sounds like the worst hero ever, I'm sure no one will ever use her, except for all the guys with a burly girl fetish

it not a matter of a worst character. they all have their unique skillz.

Valkyrie is the only hero who can put you on your back while you still have stamina , with the spear sweep .It is her only real perk she has nothing else and if you refer to what i have mentioned above it all true.I like her and still like to play her . but you meet certain very talented players where the infamous leg sweep doe not function on them and you find yourself whiffing in the air light+light to get something going or either air whiff heavy + light in hope to open something in hope to not being caught off rythm.

I spent couple hours with valk what i say is not flaming is just what it is.