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View Full Version : Can we please nerf the Raider?



Liv3rp00l
05-02-2017, 09:50 PM
While we're at it, let's nerf the Lawbringer, Warlord, Peacekeeper, Valkyrie, Orochi, Shugoki, Parry, Catapult, Javalins, Environmental hazards and pretty much just everything else in game, because it's all completely overpowered and a bad idea.

But no, seriously, I have to say that every time I log on to these forums (about twice a day, for maybe 20 minutes a piece) I see a completely new nerf thread. Each of the things I've posted up there (barr the Raider, in fairness, I put that because it's clickbait) have been called up for nerfs by members of the community.

This is of course just my opinion, so please do take it as that; but seriously by the time all of these nerfs happen, there won't be a game to play any more full stop. I have a Rep 5 Warlord, Rep 3 Valkyrie, and then I'm Rep 1 with every other character. I enjoy every character at different times and I really feel like there are people in this community right now who are trying too hard to turn this into the next biggest e-sport; and to do that they first must call everything into question that might cause them to lose in a ranked match.

The thing is, people are claiming that these nerfs are needed for the balance of the game and yet the undertone is always the same; they died to someone a few times because of it, so it's just too much.

There is literally no game that will ever have complete, 100% balance. Unless every character is a carbon copy of the other with identical attack speeds, identical damage outputs and identical attack styles.

For me, the game is pretty perfect right now (like I say, my opinion, and of course excluding connection issues and matchmaking). For me, balance would be a Peacekeeper that destroys the Shugoki, every time, because it's a bad match up; but a Valkyrie that stomps the Peacekeeper.

Everybody is going to cry out that it's just unfair, it's a game of roulette if you're in 1v1 matches. It's really not, though, is it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're really in a tournament playing to win $$$ then you should be proficient with three or four different characters, and analyse the characters that your opponent plays, so that you can learn a hero who can counter those, surely? Right?

I mean that is what 'mlg' players do, they go into extreme detail over all of this, so it's really not unfair, it breathes life into the game, adds a reason to play every hero, adds a reason to learn and experiment.

The 4v4 aspect would be much more interesting too, as teams scramble to find a fantastic compliment of heroes who can support each other.

But the most important part... It does away with all of the incessant cries for nerfs to just about everything in-game that does any amount of damage. Casual players are a thing too, and often they're hit hardest because of the loud voices of the minority. It's always the same.

Please, nobody take what I've said to heart. Feel free to dismiss it entirely as misinformed and nonsensical. This however, is exactly how I feel.

Nerf Threads:

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1652385-Parry-has-to-go!! <- Parry nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1651383-What-stop-pks-from-killing-joy-for-everyone-at-elimination <- Peacekeeper nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1652023-Warlord-defense-is-just-too-high <- Warlord nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1651934-Okay-the-infinite-knockdown-loop-from-the-Valkyrie-is-getting-dumb <- Valkyrie nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1650099-Can-we-please-finally-do-something-about-the-ledges <- Environmental nerfs.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1649655-Javelin-s-and-bows-should-be-nerfed <- Javalin and Bow nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1650290-Nerf-Lawbringer <- Lawbringer nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1651623-Suggestion-Remove-quot-superior-block-vs-lights-quot-on-normal-block <- Superior block nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1651214-Has-gear-score-killed-the-game <- Gear score nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1649517-Valkyrie-Javelin <- More javalin nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1648166-Nerf-ZA-but-keep-them-useful <- Zone attack nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1649643-GB-Tracking <- Guardbreak nerf.

WoodDaGawd
05-02-2017, 09:54 PM
I think a lot of these players just want to log in and see insta win on their stats.

"Round 1"

"You Win for Joining the Match!"

"Congratulations! Your new KDR is 4.0! Go show your online friends!"

Liv3rp00l
05-02-2017, 10:01 PM
Pretty much bruh.

Lumina-US
05-02-2017, 10:03 PM
I think a lot of these players just want to log in and see insta win on their stats.

"Round 1"

"You Win for Joining the Match!"

"Congratulations! Your new KDR is 4.0! Go show your online friends!"Well put, see the Warden nerf thread, 145 comments bold, almost 16 pages long (and that for a character with an overall average moveset - pfff...)

For Honor houses tons of fack1ng crybabies, but as long as ubisoft tries to cater to their likings, all hope is lost, as the nerf this, nerf that whimpering, will likely NEVER change.

Liv3rp00l
05-02-2017, 10:07 PM
Well put, see the Warden nerf thread, 145 comments bold, almost 16 pages long (and that for a character with an overall average moveset - pfff...)

For Honor houses tons of fack1ng crybabies, but as long as ubisoft tries to cater to their likings, all hope is lost, as the nerf this, nerf that whimpering, will likely NEVER change.

Bro, I'm updating my OP with several threads you can find between pages 2 and 7... It's ridiculous. The calls for everything to go, it's like a fire sale.

Jarl.Felix
05-02-2017, 10:26 PM
When Ubisoft promotes unpunishable heroes like orochies who do 90 dmg with a single hit you know this game is **** :))

Liv3rp00l
05-02-2017, 10:33 PM
When Ubisoft promotes unpunishable heroes like orochies who do 90 dmg with a single hit you know this game is **** :))

Unpunishable like their Storm Rush which is telegraphed as f**k and easily parried for a free Guardbreak?.. Guardbreak is way too OP in this scenario and needs a nerf so that Orochi can once again be unpunishable!

razabak10mm
05-02-2017, 10:34 PM
The raider definitely needs a nerf. The ax hump is OP and responsible for at least 90% of ragequits in this game and needs to go!

Dirteh Raider for life.

Liv3rp00l
05-02-2017, 10:36 PM
The raider definitely needs a nerf. The ax hump is OP and responsible for at least 90% of ragequits in this game and needs to go!

Dirteh Raider for life.

I giggled irl and my wife gave me dirty looks.

razabak10mm
05-02-2017, 10:59 PM
I giggled irl and my wife gave me dirty looks.
Dirty looks are my specialty.

My work is done here.

Stay Dirteh my friend.

Anevian-
05-02-2017, 11:11 PM
The raider definitely needs a nerf. The ax hump is OP and responsible for at least 90% of ragequits in this game and needs to go!

Dirteh Raider for life.

Not gonna lie, the raider hump was literally the reason I kept playing him when I started out. I felt he was slow af and almost went to pk (thankfully I didn't), but the salt caused by the hump after I threw someone off a cliff (c'mon it was release day and my first time playing) and then finding out you can spam it, my god it was like being baptized in the dead sea! I was hooked at that point.


Rep 11 raider
Stay dirteh my friends

razabak10mm
05-02-2017, 11:23 PM
and then finding out you can spam it, my god it was like being baptized in the dead sea! I was hooked at that point.


Rep 11 raider
Stay dirteh my friends

You Sir are doing it right!!

coll9502
05-02-2017, 11:24 PM
ive commented on some of these trying to talk sense into people that agree with them. If ubisoft listens to these people or people like them who dont know what balance is and dont know how to fight against a charcter and the only thing they do know is to go on the internet and complain then for honor will be taken down the road of complete and utter implosion.

SlashingElbow
05-02-2017, 11:32 PM
While we're at it, let's nerf the Lawbringer, Warlord, Peacekeeper, Valkyrie, Orochi, Shugoki, Parry, Catapult, Javalins, Environmental hazards and pretty much just everything else in game, because it's all completely overpowered and a bad idea.

But no, seriously, I have to say that every time I log on to these forums (about twice a day, for maybe 20 minutes a piece) I see a completely new nerf thread. Each of the things I've posted up there (barr the Raider, in fairness, I put that because it's clickbait) have been called up for nerfs by members of the community.

This is of course just my opinion, so please do take it as that; but seriously by the time all of these nerfs happen, there won't be a game to play any more full stop. I have a Rep 5 Warlord, Rep 3 Valkyrie, and then I'm Rep 1 with every other character. I enjoy every character at different times and I really feel like there are people in this community right now who are trying too hard to turn this into the next biggest e-sport; and to do that they first must call everything into question that might cause them to lose in a ranked match.

The thing is, people are claiming that these nerfs are needed for the balance of the game and yet the undertone is always the same; they died to someone a few times because of it, so it's just too much.

There is literally no game that will ever have complete, 100% balance. Unless every character is a carbon copy of the other with identical attack speeds, identical damage outputs and identical attack styles.

For me, the game is pretty perfect right now (like I say, my opinion, and of course excluding connection issues and matchmaking). For me, balance would be a Peacekeeper that destroys the Shugoki, every time, because it's a bad match up; but a Valkyrie that stomps the Peacekeeper.

Everybody is going to cry out that it's just unfair, it's a game of roulette if you're in 1v1 matches. It's really not, though, is it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're really in a tournament playing to win $$$ then you should be proficient with three or four different characters, and analyse the characters that your opponent plays, so that you can learn a hero who can counter those, surely? Right?

I mean that is what 'mlg' players do, they go into extreme detail over all of this, so it's really not unfair, it breathes life into the game, adds a reason to play every hero, adds a reason to learn and experiment.

The 4v4 aspect would be much more interesting too, as teams scramble to find a fantastic compliment of heroes who can support each other.

But the most important part... It does away with all of the incessant cries for nerfs to just about everything in-game that does any amount of damage. Casual players are a thing too, and often they're hit hardest because of the loud voices of the minority. It's always the same.

Please, nobody take what I've said to heart. Feel free to dismiss it entirely as misinformed and nonsensical. This however, is exactly how I feel.

Nerf Threads:

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1652385-Parry-has-to-go!! <- Parry nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1651383-What-stop-pks-from-killing-joy-for-everyone-at-elimination <- Peacekeeper nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1652023-Warlord-defense-is-just-too-high <- Warlord nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1651934-Okay-the-infinite-knockdown-loop-from-the-Valkyrie-is-getting-dumb <- Valkyrie nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1650099-Can-we-please-finally-do-something-about-the-ledges <- Environmental nerfs.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1649655-Javelin-s-and-bows-should-be-nerfed <- Javalin and Bow nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1650290-Nerf-Lawbringer <- Lawbringer nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1651623-Suggestion-Remove-quot-superior-block-vs-lights-quot-on-normal-block <- Superior block nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1651214-Has-gear-score-killed-the-game <- Gear score nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1649517-Valkyrie-Javelin <- More javalin nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1648166-Nerf-ZA-but-keep-them-useful <- Zone attack nerf.
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1649643-GB-Tracking <- Guardbreak nerf.

Atleast one guy here gets it. Im so sick of the crying about nerfing this game. Please stop it and just learn to use the different characters. Its the same for everyone

UbiJurassic
05-02-2017, 11:50 PM
Hey Liv3rp00l, while we know many players have concerns regarding a specific hero's state of balance, it is all great feedback for our team to have. This feedback allows us to find a consensus on problems in the community. These problems are then compared to the data we have in-game to justify the need for an adjustment, whether that would a buff or a nerf. :)

WoodDaGawd
05-03-2017, 08:40 PM
Hey Liv3rp00l, while we know many players have concerns regarding a specific hero's state of balance, it is all great feedback for our team to have. This feedback allows us to find a consensus on problems in the community. These problems are then compared to the data we have in-game to justify the need for an adjustment, whether that would a buff or a nerf. :)

Are there no dedicated testers for the feedback that you need? It just seems Ubi is catering to a lot of these unwarranted rants. Of course I'd feel slighted and ask that my main get a buff if I was constantly losing matches. It's much easier to complain than it is to practice at getting better.

Just seems like you are putting these ranters on a pedestal to retain their business. Not sure why though. Because these are the same customers that will continue to bad mouth the company once you stop giving into their constant demands.

Specialkha
05-03-2017, 09:15 PM
So according to some ppl, pk was fine before nerfs, warlord is fine, def meta is fine, I got that right?

Karma_Ghost
05-03-2017, 09:37 PM
Are there no dedicated testers for the feedback that you need? It just seems Ubi is catering to a lot of these unwarranted rants. Of course I'd feel slighted and ask that my main get a buff if I was constantly losing matches. It's much easier to complain than it is to practice at getting better.

Just seems like you are putting these ranters on a pedestal to retain their business. Not sure why though. Because these are the same customers that will continue to bad mouth the company once you stop giving into their constant demands.

Has it ever occurred to you that some of those "unwarranted rants" have data to back them up? Basically your counter argument is "I know better than everyone else and the game is fine exactly as it is".

The whole point of balancing adjustments is to make every choice, roughly equally viable. Just because you can adapt to something, doesn't mean it isn't inherently unbalanced. Imagine having a warrior with a moveset full of unblockables that deal 50+ damage per hit and stagger for guaranteed followups. Your current argument would fall in line with "you just need to parry". While that would be a viable strategy to win, it's still grossly imbalanced compared to everyone else that you don't have to parry.

UbiNoty
05-04-2017, 01:11 AM
time to bring out the
https://media1.giphy.com/media/ziVrmMcFK8xNu/giphy.gif

(I'm just kidding - don't hurt me)

razabak10mm
05-04-2017, 04:03 AM
time to bring out the
https://media1.giphy.com/media/ziVrmMcFK8xNu/giphy.gif

(I'm just kidding - don't hurt me)

You finally found a nerf worthy of the Raider!

bmason1000
05-04-2017, 04:51 AM
I think the game is currently in a pretty great place, balance wise. Its been a hot minute since i felt really cheesed to death or went in to a round and thought "ah s***, well i guess i just lose this one" because of the class i was fighting instead of the player.

Between my own experience gain, skill progression and the last two patches, balance feels very comfortable to me.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-04-2017, 05:02 AM
You finally found a nerf worthy of the Raider!

I have a seething hatred for bad puns, but this one was so bad that I will allow it to make me chuckle.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/ad/5a/87/ad5a87811671bf8bfe331263dc1ba132.jpg

WoodDaGawd
05-04-2017, 03:23 PM
Has it ever occurred to you that some of those "unwarranted rants" have data to back them up? Basically your counter argument is "I know better than everyone else and the game is fine exactly as it is".

The whole point of balancing adjustments is to make every choice, roughly equally viable. Just because you can adapt to something, doesn't mean it isn't inherently unbalanced. Imagine having a warrior with a moveset full of unblockables that deal 50+ damage per hit and stagger for guaranteed followups. Your current argument would fall in line with "you just need to parry". While that would be a viable strategy to win, it's still grossly imbalanced compared to everyone else that you don't have to parry.

It's a FIGHTING game. It's not going to be 100% completely balanced and it shouldn't be. As in real life, you are not an equal to everyone you meet in life and crying about it constantly will not change that.

Liv3rp00l
05-04-2017, 04:05 PM
So according to some ppl, pk was fine before nerfs, warlord is fine, def meta is fine, I got that right?

You've got that right bad boy. If you want that to change, how about Ubi design some of the newer characters in a way that can open up turtles. They don't need to adjust every character in game with nerfs. That sh*t should already have been tested to death - this is also the point of BETA testing.

The fact that the closed beta ran on the 26th of Januray, and the games actual release was the 14th of February, you can kind of already see that the beta was just for marketing purposes and not actual testing.

Now, I'm not in the industry, but I'm pretty sure the traditional sense of a beta, was that the game is still in development; and that this was a chance to get actual feedback about bugs and balancing issues etc etc.

So to return to the original point; I'm very happy with the way the game is played right now (aside from connectivity and matchmaking) and feel that if you want the defensive meta to stop, then that's a community problem, not a developer problem.

Developers can address this by releasing characters that perform noticeably better against turtles play style than aggressive characters play styles.

But hey, you carry on blaming developers for the way COMMUNITY MEMBERS exploit mechanics and how THEY DECIDE TO PLAY. It's a mighty cool story, bro.

Specialkha
05-04-2017, 04:13 PM
Such a cool story that even devs said that def meta was an issue and that a fix was on its way. But yeah, keep living in your desillusion.

MM is an issue for you? I could say git gud then according to your fail logic.

Liv3rp00l
05-04-2017, 04:20 PM
Such a cool story that even devs said that def meta was an issue and that a fix was on its way. But yeah, keep living in your desillusion.

MM is an issue for you? I could say git gud then according to your fail logic.

I never said that matchmaking was an issue 'for me' personally, but of course, you're not one to actually read or pick up on the nuances of a conversation, are you? I did however say that matchmaking needed looking at. The reasons why? Fairly obvious, go onto YouTube, there's plenty of other people who go into more detail on it and have nice clips of how matchmaking ends up.
/L2Read.

Defensive meta is a problem, I never said it wasn't, once again, you need to spend more time understanding what's being said, than you do responding to imaginary arguments in your head. The defensive meta however is a community problem and not a developer problem. You can't have a fighting game like this, with classes with shields, and not have defensive options available. Just because people abuse those defensive options, does not mean that developers must address those characters on the whole.

If Shinobi for example dealt an extra 10% damage to somebody (55 damage on a heavy instead of 50, for example) for every hit they landed after somebody came out of full block stance, it could be interesting.

If Centurion could not be staggered off parries and was only knocked back a short distance from the person landing the parry, it could also be interesting. We do not need nerfs on every character. We need intelligent character design GOING FORWARD.

So yeah, cool story, bruh.

Specialkha
05-04-2017, 05:46 PM
That would simply means that ppl would play warlord and shinobi and centurion only. Great design, BRUH.

Liv3rp00l
05-04-2017, 06:17 PM
That would simply means that ppl would play warlord and shinobi and centurion only. Great design, BRUH.

You seem to be of the opinion that this is the entire design of the character without it's own punishable move sets, without it's own drawbacks, this was a SUGGESTION, not a DESIGN.

Please, for the love of God, tell me that you're a troll. I really don't think I could bear to believe somebody could be this unobservant/ignorant/stupid.

Specialkha
05-04-2017, 06:21 PM
By the look of your posts, you are the troll here. You do not even understand what you are saying.

Liv3rp00l
05-04-2017, 06:25 PM
By the look of your posts, you are the troll here. You do not even understand what you are saying.

This post, though.