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Flakwalker
04-30-2004, 10:58 PM
When the japanese attacked Pearl Harbor they attacked all the ships acnhored there but failed to get any carrier or destroy the fueld depots in the area to prevent future fueld supplied operations later.

Now I wonder if in the game, let say you are flying a Zero, you straffe all the fuel depots in the area, this may change to course of the Campaing?, maybe a delayed battle at Midway?

Flakwalker
04-30-2004, 10:58 PM
When the japanese attacked Pearl Harbor they attacked all the ships acnhored there but failed to get any carrier or destroy the fueld depots in the area to prevent future fueld supplied operations later.

Now I wonder if in the game, let say you are flying a Zero, you straffe all the fuel depots in the area, this may change to course of the Campaing?, maybe a delayed battle at Midway?

necrobaron
04-30-2004, 11:10 PM
Great question. That really WOULD be a dynamic campaign. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

"Not all who wander are lost."

Latico
04-30-2004, 11:17 PM
The japanese also failed to hit the drydock facilities and the sub pens.

Oh Yeah, there are definitely some good "what if" scenarios that could be played out. I posted a couple concerning Pearl Harbor in another thread.

sapre
05-01-2004, 12:01 AM
even if the japanese destroyed the fuel stores and drydock facilities, it'll only delay the japan's surrender for few months.

ImpStarDuece
05-01-2004, 03:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>even if the japanese destroyed the fuel stores and drydock facilities, it'll only delay the japan's surrender for few months <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Considering the industrial output of the US during the war i'd doubt that even a few months is a sufficently short time frame. And once the US had B-29 range of the mainland not much was going to slow them down (atomic bomb aside)

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

IV_JG51_Razor
05-01-2004, 08:40 AM
I have read in several different places that if the IJN had carried through with their plans, they would have gotten around to those targets - the fuel depots, the dry docks, and the sub pens. This book I read, said that if they had, it would have set us back almost two years before we could have began conducting offensive operations. Now, I'm not an economist, or industrial engineer, but I tend to agree with that assesment just from having been in the Navy, and having an inkling of what it takes to keep a ship going THAT HASN'T BEEN BOMBED, let alone raising one from the bottom of the bay, repairing it and putting it back to sea. I don't know about the two years, but it would have been a really long time for sure.

Razor
IV/JG51 Intelligence Officer
www.jg51.net (http://www.jg51.net)

"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"

Nimits
05-01-2004, 10:29 AM
If they had destroyed the tank farms, the fleet base would have been moved back to California temporarily. The war might have been pro-longed 6 months to 2 years. However, even in those circumstances, it is highly doubtful the Japanese would have faired any better in the end.

Latico
05-01-2004, 11:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Nimits:
If they had destroyed the tank farms, the fleet base would have been moved back to California temporarily. The war might have been pro-longed 6 months to 2 years. However, even in those circumstances, it is highly doubtful the Japanese would have faired any better in the end.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's hard to say for sure what the outcome might have been. The Japanese people were and still are quite productive themselves. the problem Japan faced back in the 30's is that the population was outgrowing it's natural resources. The military leaders had taken upon itself to invade China for it's resources of coal, iron ore, oil, and food. All of which they felt was needed to maintain there war machine and the personal.

Had IJ been able to totally dissable the 7th Fleet at Pearl Harbor the US ability to stop the Japanese short of their goal of including Australia in their expansion plans would have been lost. Had the Pacific Fleet been forced to retreat back to the West coast I suspect that the IJ Military would have invaded and occupied the Hawaian Islands as well, making it even harder for the US to counter.

Once IJ had captured the areas that possessed the resources they needed their abilty to increase their military might would have been realized.

And let's not forget that unlike Nazi Germany, the IJ military was not being commanded by a madman.

IV_JG51_Razor
05-01-2004, 11:59 AM
I don't doubt the outcome at all. The author's point (I can't recall his name) was that, if the more strategic targets at Pearl had been taken care of, we would have been set back at least two years before any OFFENSIVE actions could have taken place.

To my knowledge, I don't think the Japanese ever had any plans of invading Australia, or even Hawaii for that matter. All they were trying to accomplish with the attack on Pearl, was to eliminate America's (and England's) ability to interfere with their plans for a "Co-Prosperity" sphere in the Far East.

If, in fact, they had accomplished this, we would have been very hard pressed to stop them from gaining the raw materials they needed to sustain their war. The fact that they left the sub pens untouched, was probably one of their greatest mistakes, and failure to take Midway away from us was, I think, their eventual undoing. But even had they won at Midway, I believe that we would have eventually out produced them in the end, and they still would have met the same fate. It just would have taken a little longer.

Razor
IV/JG51 Intelligence Officer
www.jg51.net (http://www.jg51.net)

"Good judgement comes from experience, and experience comes from poor judgement"

Obi_Kwiet
05-01-2004, 02:14 PM
Didn't the Lexington get repaired after two days with extensive damage. They just got tones of people working on her.

mike_espo
05-01-2004, 03:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sapre:
even if the japanese destroyed the fuel stores and drydock facilities, it'll only delay the japan's surrender for few months.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I read that if the fuel depot was destroyed, the USN would have been crippled for at least 6 months, by that time, the IJN would have consolodated their hold in the southern area, and lines of communications with Australia would probably have been cut. The American carriers would not have been any threat to Japan, thus no dolittle raid which was the main motivation by Yamamoto to attack Midway. Who knows, maybe we would have negotiated a settlement with the Japanese...... We would definately have made a strategic withdraw to the west coast...

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

Latico
05-01-2004, 06:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
Didn't the Lexington get repaired after two days with extensive damage. They just got tones of people working on her.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your think of the CV5 Yorktown, I think.