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Haemmerst0rm
04-30-2017, 07:26 PM
Hello everyone

Since the warden nerf update has been live for a week or two, what is your opinion so far? Do you notice the differences that big when you face a warden or not?

In my opninion, i don't like the next things on warden when i'm fighting him:
- GB out of shoudlerbash (no matter if you make the timing shorter, this is an example of a very bad 50/50). I would like to see this being removed. Just make it like warlord headbut: when the bash is missed, you get a free guardbreak.
- Unlimited shoulder bashes with very little stamina usage. Make it cost the same amount of stamina like warlord headbut.

It would be nice to see when the warden can't gb out of shoulderbash anymore with some kind of a visual option.

Warden is a great hero and has a lot of options. But wardens who relies on bashes is just not enjoyable, and this is being seen as "cheesing".

Thoughts?

PecarCZ
04-30-2017, 07:35 PM
Before patch when exp warden cancel shoulderbash into gb he catch you at start of dodge animation now when he cancel he catch you in mid of dodge animation so this patch dont change anything warden is still vortex op spammer with light or gb.Same for PK patch almost change anything she cannot stay on place and spam light but she can spam chain attack and w8 0.5s for recovery and start again so same no change.only way how nerf pk attack spamming is more stanima cost and longer stamina recovery (if dev dont want nerf her attack speed this is only way how nerf pk)


Developer comments: The current light > light spam of the Peacekeeper is annoying and it’s very hard to react on the second light. We didn’t want to fix this by making the second light slower as we want to keep some fast attacks. Instead, we’re increasing the second light’s recoveries on Block and Hits in order to put the peacekeeper at frame disadvantage if she doesn’t commit to the chain finisher. She will lose the initiative and will get hit by fast attack if she continues spamming light.

Get hit by fast attack-Thats mean this is good only for Berserker/Orochi/Valk all other heroes have slower attack and get hit before can hit PK.

Mudflaaaps
04-30-2017, 07:35 PM
I doubt anyone would disagree that the 50/50 is an awful gameplay mechanic. To be totally honest, I don't struggle with this myself, I find wardens to have an annoyingly powerful arsenal of moves (very strong defense, lightning quick attacks, painful Zone attack) but the shoulder bash is used as a cheesing method.
the warlords headbutt is no better really, both need the timing adjusted. The warden just should not be able to cancel it into a guard break. Ok, cancel it. But into a guard break? It should be able to be cancelled like any other attack that can be, by pressing the cancel button. Then there's a tiny, TINY delay (like all attacks) before you can follow up. THEN you can guard break. Wouldn't that fix it?

As for endless shoulder bashes...who cares, they're easy to dodge and predictable. I'd rather a warden used shoulder bashes than constant zone flicking and zone attacks. That sh it gets boring really fast.

IesooMI
04-30-2017, 07:37 PM
The devs have said they like 50/50s and want more of them in the game. I'm all for it. You can't hate the defensive turtle meta and also hate 50/50s. Next to adding chip it's the best thing to combat turtles.

PecarCZ
04-30-2017, 07:41 PM
So why is warden only heroe in game what can cancel vortex into gb when other heroes cannot do it????????.Easy fix: disable it for warden or enable for other heroes.

Dizzy4213
04-30-2017, 07:41 PM
No difference. Warden's vortex is still just as stupid as before. All they needed to do was not allow him to cancel into a GB.

Mudflaaaps
04-30-2017, 07:49 PM
I call bullsh it on that. No way have the devs tried to nerf the wardens 50/50 then said they want more. 50/50s are what ruin the game. Its feinting but 10 times worse.

Lumina-US
04-30-2017, 07:56 PM
Hello everyone

Since the warden nerf update has been live for a week or two, what is your opinion so far? Do you notice the differences that big when you face a warden or not?

In my opninion, i don't like the next things on warden when i'm fighting him:
- GB out of shoudlerbash (no matter if you make the timing shorter, this is an example of a very bad 50/50). I would like to see this being removed. Just make it like warlord headbut: when the bash is missed, you get a free guardbreak.
- Unlimited shoulder bashes with very little stamina usage. Make it cost the same amount of stamina like warlord headbut.

It would be nice to see when the warden can't gb out of shoulderbash anymore with some kind of a visual option.

Warden is a great hero and has a lot of options. But wardens who relies on bashes is just not enjoyable, and this is being seen as "cheesing".

Thoughts?And PK's doing neverending light spams or Lawbringer's doing the same backflip-move **** over and over again isn't cheesing?

God, you guys have problems - the Warden is a hero with an average moveset at best, why you guys are still keep crying for more nerfs on that guy is completely beyond me.

Mudflaaaps
04-30-2017, 07:57 PM
Because warden is the top character in the game and at high level play he absolutely batters EVERY other character. Peacekeeper is great at slaughtering noobs, but anyone with skill (or any warden ever) can easily counter one.

Haemmerst0rm
04-30-2017, 07:59 PM
So why is warden only heroe in game what can cancel vortex into gb when other heroes cannot do it????????.Easy fix: disable it for warden or enable for other heroes.

I agree with this. Warden really doesnt need GB out of bash to be a top-tier hero.

Lumina-US
04-30-2017, 08:01 PM
Because warden is the top character in the game and at high level play he absolutely batters EVERY other character. Peacekeeper is great at slaughtering noobs, but anyone with skill (or any warden ever) can easily counter one.No he isn't - even in the so called "competitive scene" a Warden has yet to win a single tournament and besides - even at the risk of repeating this for like the 156ish time, Console and PC are entirely two different For Honor's - on XBOX the Warden is nothing what you said and pretty average at best.

Mudflaaaps
04-30-2017, 08:06 PM
Well I play ps4 and he's a God.
Wardens do extremely well in tournaments actually, but none have won because the characters with even more ridiculous unblockables win. Nowhere did I say he's not beatable, but he is clearly the best. Pc, ps4 or Xbox. He's tippy top of the top.

Oupyz
04-30-2017, 08:09 PM
if they want 50/50

i demand all heroes to have one

i want to cancel Nobu kick into guardbreak , so when you dodge i'll guardbreak you for a free overhead heavy , yay skill , see what i did there :xD

stop it ubisoft with this none-sense take away the cancel from sb

thanks

TheLastPandaa
04-30-2017, 08:35 PM
In my opinion Warden is one of the best characters of the game. If you take out his SB he will still very good, even beter than Kensei after the 1.5 buff.

Beetlejuice1686
04-30-2017, 09:09 PM
Lol @ warden being better than kensi, and most wardens repeat the same process, shoulder bash first rip, gb the next, even at top tier, ill eat two lights, or hell, dodge it even. His moveset is lackluster at best, and while annoying is easy to counter, just like pk lights, instead of blaming the hero, you should blame yourself for being slow, and make improvements but its always easier to point fingers and cry "OP" rather than actually practicing and trying to improve. 50/50s have their place and believe it or not, most people i've seen that rely on them can't play any other way, so use your head and take em off their square so to speak, and watch em melt like butter.

Mudflaaaps
04-30-2017, 11:29 PM
You must be joking. Kensei is the worst player in the game and I main one for christs sake.
No free unblockables, no special moves, no openers, no real attacking mechanisms, terrible attack speed, medium strength heavys, a dodgy guard break AND if that wasn't enough, a slow stance change.
Kensei is by far the worst character.
Bear in mind though;that doesn't mean some people dont do well with him. I have a 14.5 k/d and a 3.4 w/l with him, I love him. But he's clearly the bottom character.

Dizzy4213
04-30-2017, 11:33 PM
You must be joking. Kensei is the worst player in the game and I main one for christs sake.
No free unblockables, no special moves, no openers, no real attacking mechanisms, terrible attack speed, medium strength heavys, a dodgy guard break AND if that wasn't enough, a slow stance change.
Kensei is by far the worst character.
Bear in mind though;that doesn't mean some people dont do well with him. I have a 14.5 k/d and a 3.4 w/l with him, I love him. But he's clearly the bottom character.

I'm getting the impression you clearly don't main Kensei. He's not as bad as you say he is, stop exaggerating. Also, if you did main Kensei, you would know his stance change is one of the fastest in the game, on par with Warden's.

Netcode_err_404
04-30-2017, 11:57 PM
I'm getting the impression you clearly don't main Kensei. He's not as bad as you say he is, stop exaggerating. Also, if you did main Kensei, you would know his stance change is one of the fastest in the game, on par with Warden's.

Kensei may have a fast guard change, but what the other guy is saying is totally true.

- Relies on combo ( in for honor is the worst thing you can do)
- Doesn't have the speed needed to mix up
- Moderate damage
- No bash


The same time a kensei spend to try to combo finish someone, a warden has already vortex you to death or near.

He is the worst character in the game, way worse than raider, because at least he does some serious damage.

UbiNoty
05-01-2017, 12:12 AM
Hi guys, appreciate the feedback! I do know the team is very interested in how people feel about the 50/50, as it is an interesting mechanic that we are still trying to work out.
If you've got any other constructive feedback on the 50/50 mechanic or warden changes let us know! I'd love to hear some more opinions and show this thread to the team.

darkspawn2101
05-01-2017, 12:28 AM
The problem with the Warden shoulder bash is that not only can he spam it for like half your health, half the classes cant light fast enough to stop it, and when he -does- catch you with it, without stam, or anything, he can kill half your health with it.

I listed kills half your health twice, it's -kind of an issue-.

A minor stam cost increase isn't gonna cut it. It's either gonna be overpowered or it's gonna be useless. It's not designed in such a way as the other unblockables, it's -ment- to be chained.

I'd toy with the idea of making it so -all it can do- is guardbreak, or if it's only able to be used once. It's either gonna be overpowered, or it wont be useable, it's the sad truth of how the character is -designed-.

Edit: If he gets a 50/50, give -everyone- a 50/50. Give Lawbringer, Conq, and Warlord their 50/50's back. Either make it a common mechanic, or take it out. Period. And then work on ajusting Warden's shoulderbash to give it -some- other property, possibly pressure. Speed it up, let it guarentee two lights at slightly reduced damage. ANYTHING BUT THIS 50/50 GARBAGE.

SerArthur-Dayne
05-01-2017, 01:21 AM
He was fine before the patch. Not sure why people called it a 50/50 when you could get out of it reliably 100% of the time, at the very most you would cop the double light if you were slow to react. Now it took a huge nerf. People are rolling out of my attacks before I get the light attack after a bash. Getting CGB after feinting a bash to a GB. Bash is now easy to dodge. Almost useless to feint atm, so you have to commit to sending it out.

Youve certainly removed this class from the tier that warlord, lawbringer, and PK (if lag is meh), and maybe valk are in. Not campaining to nerf those heroes either, but I dont think warden can keep getting nerfed to his bread and butter move, until literally everyone on this forum decides when its good enough for them. Because that wont happen.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 07:56 AM
Because warden is the top character in the game and at high level play he absolutely batters EVERY other character. Peacekeeper is great at slaughtering noobs, but anyone with skill (or any warden ever) can easily counter one.

Yep, that's why Wardens are slaughtering PKs in tournaments.......oh wait....it's actually the opposite.

To those who say removing the GB from shoulder bash, do you know that that GB is the only thing that prevent people from simply turtling and dodging the shoulder bash and get free GB on Warden?

Here's the trick: In 1.06, warden can no longer cancel into GB when the bash start moving, so dodge when the bash starts moving instead of preemptively and get easy GB on Warden.

And that's just one of many ways to counter warden's vortex, at high level play when people know spacing and how to counter it, spamming vortex is suicide.

Read this reddit post on how to counter vortex:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/68dufl/is_the_new_warden_vortex_punishable/dgytufg/

There are 4 Different things that a Warden can do from his Shoulderbash, and for each, a counter/punish:
-> Cancel into GB (Light attack into it)
-> Full charge (Dodge, Guardbreak guaranteed.)
-> Let it go (Also dodge, gb guaranteed. But you need to be fast. I personally have no time pulling it off, but I reckon the time window is fairly short if you forget to input your GB early)
-> Cancel and hope for a parry (If he starts spamming cancelled shoulders, just spam Guardbreaks. You'll eventually catch him mid-sidestep OR right after he cancelled, during his new 200ms vulnerability frames)
Obs: NONE of this can be done on reaction. Its a mind/prediction game, but nothing the warden does can be done on reaction anymore either, so basically its your "mind, guessing, reading skills" vs his own.
Obs 2: If you're a Warlord, you can instead of light-attack into it, Just headbutt. It beats ALL of the choices aforementioned except the "soft-charged Shoulderbash". So its probably the safest counter out of the Vortex... however you only get 10 damage in. And a VERY smart Warden will notice what you're doing and after he hits you with a light just start dashing backwards and charging a new shoulder as you miss the headbutt.
Obs 3: Basically, the punishment changes with this new patch are that now you can punish a "sb cancel" spam with guardbreaks and light-attacks (I'd suggest the former, since a poorly timed light attack may get parried) and that now the window to Guardbreak a missed shoulderbash is big enough to be done fairly consistently with any character (Back then pretty much only Raider could do it.)

But it's always easier to ***** and moan instead of learning how to counter.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 10:57 AM
Yep, that's why Wardens are slaughtering PKs in tournaments.......oh wait....it's actually the opposite.

To those who say removing the GB from shoulder bash, do you know that that GB is the only thing that prevent people from simply turtling and dodging the shoulder bash and get free GB on Warden?

Here's the trick: In 1.06, warden can no longer cancel into GB when the bash start moving, so dodge when the bash starts moving instead of preemptively and get easy GB on Warden.

And that's just one of many ways to counter warden's vortex, at high level play when people know spacing and how to counter it, spamming vortex is suicide.

Read this reddit post on how to counter vortex:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/68dufl/is_the_new_warden_vortex_punishable/dgytufg/


But it's always easier to ***** and moan instead of learning how to counter.
If you think bash cancel is fine. Why not giving lb shove cancel into gb ?
Why not giving long arm czncel ? Why not giving nobushi kick cancel into gb ?

Why not give shugoki embrace cancel into gb ? Can you see the problem now ?

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 11:33 AM
If you think bash cancel is fine. Why not giving lb shove cancel into gb ?
Why not giving long arm czncel ? Why not giving nobushi kick cancel into gb ?

Why not give shugoki embrace cancel into gb ? Can you see the problem now ?

Canceling is perfectly fine as long as there are punishment and downside to it. Mind game add an intellectual aspect into the game makes it much more interesting as long as the reward for guessing right is balanced for both sides. Warden as of right is balanced, everything he does there is a counter to it with proportional reward if you guess right.

Actually right now, at high level play it's extremely hard to land a bash on someone without landing a top light (which gets parried or blocked the vast majority of the time) or after dodging an attack, initiating shoulder bash and let it goes from neutral is suicidal because the players there know how to do proper spacing and will dodge it easily and guardbreak you, and it's near impossible to land subsequent shoulder bashes.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-01-2017, 11:34 AM
Warden is now balanced.


Stop arguing.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 11:45 AM
Canceling is perfectly fine as long as there are punishment and downside to it. Mind game add an intellectual aspect into the game makes it much more interesting as long as the reward for guessing right is balanced for both sides. Warden as of right is balanced, everything he does there is a counter to it with proportional reward if you guess right.

Actually right now, at high level play it's extremely hard to land a bash on someone without landing a top light (which gets parried or blocked the vast majority of the time) or after dodging an attack, initiating shoulder bash and let it goes from neutral is suicidal because the players there know how to do proper spacing and will dodge it easily and guardbreak you, and it's near impossible to land subsequent shoulder bashes.

So what ? Lol its almost stamina free, safe, and efficient.

Most top wardens confirmed that nerf is useless, but ok.

Well im not that surprised, on pk subfirum some ppl claim that now pk is balanced too.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 11:56 AM
So what ? Lol its almost stamina free, safe, and efficient.

It is stamina free but it's not safe, the only safe thing about it is cancel into block, if you try parry the opponent can always mix up their attacks. Oh and if you try to spam it from neutral, your opponent will catch on and GB you for an untechable GB when you're trying to dash int SB.



Most top wardens confirmed that nerf is useless, but ok.

Nope, most top tier players confirmed that Warden is now useless for competitive play, leaving only Warlord and PKs. Warden will still be a noob stomper but against anyone with a brain, spamming shoulder bash is suicidal.



Well im not that surprised, on pk subfirum some ppl claim that now pk is balanced too.

Try to pay a visit to r/CompetitiveForHonor where the top competive players regular instead of this cesspit of idiotic whiners, most agreed that Warden's vortex wasn't even OP pre-nerfed except maybe for the low stamina cost and the late cancel into shoulder bash. Now SB can no longer be canceled into GB late (when it starts moving) anymore and coupled with even more nerfs like 200ms canceling delay and 100ms added recovery on whiff, Warden's no longer viable for competitive play because nothing he does except canceling into block is safe anymore.

Brologna_Xeno
05-01-2017, 12:02 PM
It's that SB cannot be punished with a GB that gets me. Any other attack's initial and recovery frames provide a window for a guaranteed GB counter.

SB for some reason is an exception. They should not be able to tech a GB counter if I know their diving into a SB and grab them 1st. Or after dodge (or 1vX gank) when they are in animation lock recovery frames they should not be able to CGB (but they can).

Its like the only attack in the game allows teching of GB counters. Looks like an oversight, not a design intention, so I'd like that corrected.

And I think making this change balances the skill for risk reward. A toe-to-toe SB you are risking giving your opponent a free GB, so you can't be predictable. A light disrupt isn't enough of a punish. Nevermind the fact they can cancel to parry/top-counter.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 12:04 PM
It is stamina free but it's not safe, the only safe thing about it is cancel into block, if you try parry the opponent can always mix up their attacks. Oh and if you try to spam it from neutral, your opponent will catch on and GB you for an untechable GB when you're trying to dash int SB.



Nope, most top tier players confirmed that Warden is now useless for competitive play, leaving only Warlord and PKs. Warden will still be a noob stomper but against anyone with a brain, spamming shoulder bash is suicidal.



Try to pay a visit to r/CompetitiveForHonor where the top competive players regular instead of this cesspit of idiotic whiners, most agreed that Warden's vortex wasn't even OP pre-nerfed except maybe for the low stamina cost and the late cancel into shoulder bash. Now SB can no longer be canceled into GB late (when it starts moving) anymore and coupled with even more nerfs like 200ms canceling delay and 100ms added recovery on whiff, Warden's no longer viable for competitive play because nothing he does except canceling into block is safe anymore.

So most top players just confirmed cheese class without cheesy bashes is no longer cheesy enough for competitive scenario.

That means the whole game is a bs.

Watch the video of tru3 about wardens. You may learn so something sbou the cheap gameplay of this title

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 12:06 PM
It's that SB cannot be punished with a GB that gets me. Any other attack's initial and recovery frames provide a window for a guaranteed GB counter.

SB for some reason is an exception. They should not be able to tech a GB counter if I know their diving into a SB and grab them 1st. Or after dodge (or 1vX gank) when they are in animation lock recovery frames they should not be able to CGB (but they can).

Its like the only attack in the game allows teching of GB counters. Looks like an oversight, not a design intention, so I'd like that corrected.

Not to mention they can cancel it and parry dodge attacks or counter top light
But hey warden is trash now.

Some people should learn to play a real class, kensei for example, and then come here to say warden is mediocre

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 12:10 PM
It's that SB cannot be punished with a GB that gets me. Any other attack's initial and recovery frames provide a window for a guaranteed GB counter.

SB for some reason is an exception. They should not be able to tech a GB counter if I know their diving into a SB and grab them 1st. Or after dodge (or 1vX gank) when they are in animation lock recovery frames they should not be able to CGB (but they can).

Its like the only attack in the game allows teching of GB counters. Looks like an oversight, not a design intention, so I'd like that corrected.

You can already get a free GB on Warden shoulder bash if you dodge it and input the GB fast enough.


So most top players just confirmed cheese class without cheesy bashes is no longer cheesy enough for competitive scenario.

That means the whole game is a bs.

Watch the video of tru3 about wardens. You may learn so something sbou the cheap gameplay of this title


Lmao, Tru3talent, go figure.

First, tru3talent is very biased against any kind of 50/50s, the competitive community and top players laugh at him, you know the ones who actually play in tournaments actively and actually winning prizes.

Second, tru3talent is hardly a competitive player and has won nothing, the only times he entered tournaments he freaking played PK. Peace.Keeper, which the competitive community agrees to be, along with warlord (which is even more broken), the most OP characters in the game, far more broken than Warden, and the stats show. Peacekeeper has dominated everyone else with the exception of Warlord in every tournament.

But tru3talent is a popular streamer and youtuber and thus everything he says is taken the gospel by his legions of mindless sheeples, and thus we get Warden and Conq nerfed out of the competitive scene while the truly broken characters like PK and Warlords get slapped on the wrist for nerfs.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 12:16 PM
You can already get a free GB on Warden shoulder bash if you dodge it and input the GB fast enough.




Lmao, Tru3talent, go figure.

First, tru3talent is very biased against any kind of 50/50s, the competitive community and top players laugh at him, you know the ones who actually play in tournaments actively and actually winning prizes.

Second, tru3talent is hardly a competitive player and has won nothing, the only times he entered tournaments he freaking played PK. Peace.Keeper, which the competitive community is agreed to be, along with warlord (which is even more broken), the most OP characters in the game, far more broken than Warden, and the stats show. Peacekeeper has dominated everyone else with the exception of Warlord in every tournament.

But tru3talent is a popular streamer and youtubers and thus everything he says is taken the gospel by his legions of mindless sheeples.
He is still stronger than you will ever be. Showed his skills in a lot of videos, and before the "mindless sheep" (oh too late) im not even his subs.

In a game where ppl like unchained legion are considered top players just because exploit abs try hard, Im not that surprised people really skilled like tru3 are laughed

Ps: you cannot free gb a warden after a bash unless he full charges it or you are a raider. Best way fir others is a light, some classes are so slow they cannot light abd need to hard reset with a roll that will consume 50% of your stamina when warden consumes the same amoubr "only" after 5/6 bashes

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 12:19 PM
He is still stronger than you will ever be. Showed his skills in a lot of videos, and before the "mindless sheel" (oh too late) im not even his subs.

In a game where ppl like unchained legion are considered top players just because exploit abs try hard, Im not that surprised people really skilled like tru3 are laughed

Lmao, LegionUnchained? I'll give you Petemoo, SypherPK, both top players who have won the most amount of tournament, both do not abuse exploit, and both do not think Warden's was even that OP pre-nerf, and both think that Warlord and PK are broken.

Meanwhile Tru3talent has won absolutely nothing, has not even got anywhere close to the top 8 in any tourny despite playing the second most broken character in the game.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 12:22 PM
Lmao, LegionUnchained? I'll give you Petemoo, SypherPK, both top players who have won the most amount of tournament, both do not abuse exploit, and both do not think Warden's was even that OP pre-nerf, and both think that Warlord and PK are broken.

Meanwhile Tru3talent has won absolutely nothing, has not even got anywhere close to the top 8 in any tourny despite playing the second most broken character in the game.

Have you missed the part that he is stronger than you will ever be ? Why tashtalk clearly superior players ?

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 12:25 PM
Have you missed the part that he is stronger than you will ever be ? Why tashtalk clearly superior players ?

So? I've already given you the opinion of people who are far more skilled than Tru3talent.



Ps: you cannot free gb a warden after a bash unless he full charges it or you are a raider. Best way fir others is a light, some classes are so slow they cannot light abd need to hard reset with a roll that will consume 50% of your stamina when warden consumes the same amoubr "only" after 5/6 bashes

You certainly can, but the timing is somewhat tight but is quite doable by all classes, you must dodge right when the bash starts moving and input GB immedietely.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 12:31 PM
So? I've already given you the opinion of people who are far more skilled than Tru3talent.




You certainly can, but the timing is somewhat tight but is quite doable by all classes, you must dodge right when the bash starts moving and input GB immedietely.

This sypher guy what class plays ?

Ps: so you need to perfectly timing the dodge and the gb when all he needs to do is spamming 2 buttons ? Clearly balanced

Btw your knowledge of the game seems lackluster, lb, conc cannot didge and gb. The only one who can istantly do it is the raider

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 12:36 PM
This sypher guy what class plays ?

Shugoki, Warlord, Raider, Zerker, Lawbringer.



Ps: so you need to perfectly timing the dodge and the gb when all he needs to do is spamming 2 buttons ? Clearly balanced

The timing is not that strict, certainly less strict that dodging ConQ shield bash to get free GB on him.

And you get a free GB on him that will always punish him for far more damage than the measly 24 damage from the double sidelights if the bash hit you, so yes, it's perfectly balanced.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 12:38 PM
Shugoki, Warlord, Raider, Zerker, Lawbringer.



The timing is not that strict, certainly less strict that dodging ConQ shield bash to get free GB on him.

And you get a free GB on him that will always punish him for far more damage than the measly 24 damage from the double sidelights if the bash hit you, so yes, it's perfectly balanced.
Cannot even say how wrong you are right now. The only one who probably will istantly gb after a didge is the raider. Lb and conq will shiekd bash shove, giving you the disadvantage

Oupyz
05-01-2017, 12:43 PM
Lord-Micidial, why do u even bother arguing with this noob ,

i'am willing to bet true can beat him with one hand on the controller

trashing talking about a much superior player , will get you insulted kid , if i were you i'll shut my mouth , cause u don't even know what u're speaking about

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 12:44 PM
Cannot even say how wrong you are right now. The only one who probably will istantly gb after a didge is the raider. Lb and conq will shiekd bash shove, giving you the disadvantage

So you're resorting to splitting hair now?

FYI, Warden will also gets no confirmed sb off dodging a good Conq's shield bash as Conq's shield bash's recovery is short enough to dodge warden's retaliating shoulder bash and start shield bashing again, which warden this time cannot avoid because shoulder bash has more recovery time on whiffed than shield bash. Lawbringer can't GB because he will be able to hit the shove leading to a variety of mixups.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 12:45 PM
Lord-Micidial, why do u even bother arguing with this noob ,

i'am willing to bet true can beat him with one hand on the controller

trashing talking about a much superior player , will get you insulted kid , if i were you i'll shut my mouth , cause u don't even know what u're speaking about

It's funny how you guys take Tru3talent's words as the gospel, me, I prefer to take words from people who actually play in tournaments actively and have actually won versus a streamer who has won absolutely nothing, didn't even manage to get into top 8 despite playing the 2nd most broken hero in the game.

Brologna_Xeno
05-01-2017, 12:48 PM
The only way you land the GB is if they miss their CGB or (I am guessing) buffer their attack follow-up input like a scrub.

This is easily simulated vs Shugoki. The Shug don't even need to dodge, armor will eat the SB. Tech'd GB every time. Only knockback where GB counter doesn't work.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 12:49 PM
The only way you land the GB is if they miss their CGB or (I am guessing) buffer their attack follow-up like a scrub.

This is only true pre-patch, post patch uncharged shoulder bash has 800ms recovery time, enough to get an untechable GB on dodge with every character.

Oupyz
05-01-2017, 12:52 PM
yeah exactly words of exploiters

pk flickering
shugoki oni charrge spam aat eachother
conqueror flickering attack / shoullder charrge pre-nerf

warden vortex spam

if that's what u call skill ,good for you

and if they were that good , let them win a tournament with Nuboshi without exploiting the game mechanic

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 12:54 PM
yeah exactly words of exploiters

pk flickering
shugoki oni charrge spam aat eachother
conqueror flickering attack / shoullder charrge pre-nerf

warden vortex spam

if that's what u call skill ,good for you

and if they were that good , let them win a tournament with Nuboshi without exploiting the game mechanic

FYI, Warden has won absolutely zero 1 v 1 tournament and the highest he got was 4th place.

Oh, and did you miss something about Tru3talent playing PK in tournament? He also doesn't play trash hero in tournaments, mind you? And yet he hasn't even managed to get into top 8.

Oupyz
05-01-2017, 12:56 PM
at least true admit and he said many many times pk is broken , mind you :)

see the difference between what u call pro and true :xD

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 12:59 PM
at least true admit and he said many many times pk is broken , mind you :)

see the difference between what u call pro and true :xD

And tru3 is the only one who says that Warden is broken, meanwhile people who have won many tournies and don't even play Warden, are saying that Warden wasn't broken, and they also play a lot of non top tier characters and they are perfectly capable of countering Warden's vortex with any character.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 01:08 PM
It's funny how you guys take Tru3talent's words as the gospel, me, I prefer to take words from people who actually play in tournaments actively and have actually won versus a streamer who has won absolutely nothing, didn't even manage to get into top 8 despite playing the 2nd most broken hero in the game.

Is not abouttaking what true says. Is about having opinions, and on this matter, i just agree with tru3. I do not follow him, and Im not a subscriber of his channel. I just saw a coupl of his video, and like it or not, he is a monster nerd of for honor.

Petemoo you said ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yHELm1q4ps

Nice headbutt spam bro.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 01:11 PM
Is not abouttaking what true says. Is about having opinions, and on this matter, i just agree with tru3. I do not follow him, and Im not a subscriber of his channel. I just saw a coupl of his video, and like it or not, he is a monster nerd of for honor.

Petemoo you said ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yHELm1q4ps

Nice headbutt spam bro.

Petemoo does not only play Warlord, you can always check his stream and he'd kick the **** out of Tru3talent with any hero.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 01:11 PM
And tru3 is the only one who says that Warden is broken, meanwhile people who have won many tournies and don't even play Warden, are saying that Warden wasn't broken, and they also play a lot of non top tier characters and they are perfectly capable of countering Warden's vortex with any character.

Probably because its true. The fact nerds with 1000 hours on a 3 months old game, find it easy, doesn't mean it truly is. Is cheap and boring to fight against, considering this game should be a melee medieval wannabe fight game, not a medieval shoulder bashes/heabuts spam festival.

Warden has a lot of tools, nobody use because SB spam is mnore safe, and has a lot of pros.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 01:12 PM
Petemoo does not only play Warlord, you can always check his stream and he'd kick the **** out of Tru3talent with any hero.

I believe he can. Fact is, he plays warlord spamming safe unblockables. Thats another point on my argument.

Oupyz
05-01-2017, 01:14 PM
really man even if i try to explain to you why 50/50 is wrong in the concept of the game u wouldn't understand

but in short and now try to be smart and think before u reply to me

in short 50/50 would be a good design if the freaaking abillity cannot be spammed , but because that thing can be spammed and it consumes very littlle stamina it's broken and bad designed

second problem to counter u need to roll away , but one huge problem rolling away cost a lot of stamina and keeps the warden controlling the fight , so the whole design in flawed

see i tried an easy eexpllaination hope it will get in your head why the 50/50 is bad , increasing the stamina and maake it work like Nubo hidden stance can fix the problem

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 01:15 PM
really man even if i try to explain to you why 50/50 is wrong in the concept of the game u wouldn't understand

but in short and now try to be smart and think before u reply to me

in short 50/50 would be a good design if the freaaking abillity cannot be spammed

Cracked the code.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 01:16 PM
Probably because its true. The fact nerds with 1000 hours on a 3 months old game, find it easy, doesn't mean it truly is. Is cheap and boring to fight against, considering this game should be a melee medieval wannabe fight game, not a medieval shoulder bashes/heabuts spam festival.

You can always check other high tier streamers, actually among skilled streamer, only Tru3talen *****es about shoulder bash and 50/50.



Warden has a lot of tools, nobody use because SB spam is mnore safe, and has a lot of pros.

You mean the top light that gets parried half of the time at high level play and the zone that gives free GB on block? Yep, Warden definitely has a lot of tools.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 01:19 PM
really man even if i try to explain to you why 50/50 is wrong in the concept of the game u wouldn't understand

but in short and now try to be smart and think before u reply to me

in short 50/50 would be a good design if the freaaking abillity cannot be spammed , but because that thing can be spammed and it consumes very littlle stamina it's broken and bad designed

What if I tell you that spamming the thing at high level play will get you killed? Warden can be GBed during the dash animation into SB, and he can't tech it because he's GBed while dashing, if he keeps canceling it, the opponent will catch on and GB him during the 200ms canceling recovery time.


second problem to counter u need to roll away , but one huge problem rolling away cost a lot of stamina and keeps the warden controlling the fight , so the whole design in flawed

I've already posted a guide to how to counter Warden's vortex, you no longer need to roll away.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/68dufl/is_the_new_warden_vortex_punishable/dgytufg/

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 01:20 PM
You can always check other high tier streamers, actually among skilled streamer, only Tru3talen *****es about shoulder bash and 50/50.



You mean the top light that gets parried half of the tight at high level and the zone that gives free GB on block? Yep, Warden definitely has a lot of tools.

Another point on my argument

You basically are confirming that the whole game is a cheese spam LOL.

And so ? Tru3 opinion. Which is also my opinion, and a lot of people ( well the ones who still play LOL) agree. Spammable bashes are a cancer on this game. Its a melee medieval wannabe fighetr game, not wrestling.

Same with turtle LB, they can be beaten ? Yes, its is fun to play vs a turtle block spammer ? NOPE

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 01:22 PM
Another point on my argument

You basically are confirmingthat the whole game is a cheese spam LOL.

The game is currently a cheese spam at high level play simply because the defensive meta is too strong and other than safe attacks, the risk/reward ratio for everything else is currently too great.



And so ? Tru3 opinion. Which is also my opinion, and a lot of people ( well the ones who still play LOL) agree. Spammable bashes are a cancer on this game. Its a melee medieval wannabe fighetr game, not wrestling.

And many at high level play enjoy the mind gaming aspect of Warden's vortex, and again, it is only spammable if you don't know how to counter it. Should the devs dumb the game down for drooling idiots simply because they refuse to learn?

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 01:28 PM
The game is currently a cheese spam at high level play simply because the defensive meta is too strong and other than safe attacks, the risk/reward ratio for everything else is currently too great.



And many at high level play enjoy the mind gaming aspect of Warden's vortex, and again, it is only spammable if you don't know how to counter it. Should the devs dumb the game down for drooling idiots?

Here we go. BAsically confirms what I said an hour ago.

All type of bashes are OP and gives too many advantages. Warden included.

When I speak about wardens, do not think I'm not going to include Metalords, LB, and conqs.

Especially conqs, the most poor designed class ever created.

Antonioj26
05-01-2017, 01:30 PM
You must be joking. Kensei is the worst player in the game and I main one for christs sake.
No free unblockables, no special moves, no openers, no real attacking mechanisms, terrible attack speed, medium strength heavys, a dodgy guard break AND if that wasn't enough, a slow stance change.
Kensei is by far the worst character.
Bear in mind though;that doesn't mean some people dont do well with him. I have a 14.5 k/d and a 3.4 w/l with him, I love him. But he's clearly the bottom character.

I mostly agree with you about kensei but I'd say raider is worse. Also stop throwing around your record like it's impressive, you've already said you only play against bots which boggles my mind why you even care about balance.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 01:32 PM
Here we go. BAsically confirms what I said an hour ago.

All type of bashes are OP and gives too many advantages. Warden included.

When I speak about wardens, do not think I'm not going to include Metalords, LB, and conqs.

Especially conqs, the most poor designed class ever created.

Shoulder bash gives many advanatage? All it does is creating an opening that can be easily countered, same for LB's shove.

Again, start learning instead of asking the devs to dumb down the game for you, people should start visiting r/CompetitiveForHonor more to learn first before *****ing.

Oupyz
05-01-2017, 01:40 PM
the game is flawed by design

they like 50/50

give 50/50 to everyone while consuming a huge chunk of stamina and make it stop regenerating thus it can't be spammed that will fix the bashes , while keeping the 50/50 guess

or take 50/50 frrom eeveerybody and call it balance

or keep it as they are now and the game will die , if it's not already

Haemmerst0rm
05-01-2017, 01:42 PM
Hi guys, appreciate the feedback! I do know the team is very interested in how people feel about the 50/50, as it is an interesting mechanic that we are still trying to work out.
If you've got any other constructive feedback on the 50/50 mechanic or warden changes let us know! I'd love to hear some more opinions and show this thread to the team.

I'm glad that my thread gets your attention and the possibility to pass this to the dev team! About the opinions/suggestions for changes, i say the next:

Warden is a good hero, he has a lot of great tools to fight in combat (although its hard to perform well in this turtle meta). In my opinion, wardens shouldnt rely on their shoulderbashes. Shoulderbashes arent really some kind of a medieval combat strategy. So the next things i'm suggesting needs some changes:

- Warden guardbreak out of shoulderbash needs to be FULLY gone. This is a very bad example of a 50/50.
- Make warden shoulderbashes cost more stamina.
- Buff side light attacks and make top light a bit slower (except crushing counter).
- Warden zone attack is quite fine, although its still a bit fast (same does for orochi zoneattack). Zoneattacks arent supposed to be a thing that's spammable in duel/brawl. They are meant for minions clearing or creating space when you are being ganked.
- Add more warden combo's like light > heavy > light or light > heavy > heavy

And the biggest of all changes that's needed: Fix V-O-R-T-E-X.

Thank you for your attention and i hope the dev reads this too!

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 01:47 PM
Shoulder bash gives many advanatage? All it does is creating an opening that can be easily countered, same for LB's shove.

Again, start learning instead of asking the devs to dumb down the game for you, people should start visiting r/CompetitiveForHonor more to learn first before *****ing.

Dumb down the game ?

You just confirmed the game is a cheesy spam festival. LOL. You are just contradict yourself

Probably with the right fixes this game will be whatthey have promised us, a proper medieval wannabe fighting game.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 01:49 PM
Dumb down the game ?

You just confirmed the game is a cheesy spam festival. LOL. You are just contradict yourself

Probably with the right fixes this game will be whatthey have promised us, a proper medieval wannabe fighting game.

Except using SB at high level play now requires a lot of mind gaming and hardly cheesy spam, same for shove, spamming them will get you killed.

Oupyz
05-01-2017, 01:50 PM
Dumb down the game ?

You just confirmed the game is a cheesy spam festival. LOL. You are just contradict yourself

Probably with the right fixes this game will be whatthey have promised us, a proper medieval wannabe fighting game.

i told you some people don''t know what they are talking about

we are trying to make it a skill game , they wanna make it a spam bashes festival :/

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 01:53 PM
Except using SB at high level play now requires a lot of mind gaming and hardly cheesy spam, same for shove, spamming them will get you killed.

Lot of mind games ? HAve you ever seen the video i posted a few mins ago ? Headbutt spam vs sconq shield bash ?

Spam festival is now called mind games ?



i told you some people don''t know what they are talking about

we are trying to make it a skill game , they wanna make it a spam bashes festival :/

I don't even care to make it a skill based game, I just want what i paid for, a medieval melee fighting game.

CandleInTheDark
05-01-2017, 01:54 PM
- Warden guardbreak out of shoulderbash needs to be FULLY gone. This is a very bad example of a 50/50.


Not going to answer the post as a whole because while I have warden to rep one, my preference is speedy characters (I play almost exclusively assassins or assassin hybrids) so I don't have that much to add on him in general. The point I am answering is that people are probably going to need to get used to 50/50's, the devs want them in the game. They look at them and balance them, like in the last nerf you can't guardbreak on reaction, you have to commit to it at the start of the move. I have played a little since the nerf just to try it and while I never abused the shoulder bash, there was a definite difference, but if anything, as there is more balancing, there will probably be more added.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 01:56 PM
Not going to answer the post as a whole because while I have warden to rep one, my preference is speedy characters (I play almost exclusively assassins or assassin hybrids) so I don't have that much to add on him in general. The point I am answering is that people are probably going to need to get used to 50/50's, the devs want them in the game. They look at them and balance them, like in the last nerf you can't guardbreak on reaction, you have to commit to it at the start of the move, I have played a little since the nerf just to try it and while I never abused the shoulder bash, there was a definite difference, but if anything, as there is more balancing, there will probably be more added.

Devs probably like 50(50's because they don't play their own game.

Considering the population drop, they must be the only ones who like it. LOL

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 02:02 PM
Lot of mind games ? HAve you ever seen the video i posted a few mins ago ? Headbutt spam vs sconq shield bash ?

So everything I've said in earlier posts just passed thru your head? I've already listed many counters to Warden's vortex. And now warden gets punished hard for guessing incorrectly, it's no longer spammable anymore

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 02:06 PM
So everything I've said in earlier posts just passed thru your head? I've already listed many counters to Warden's vortex. And now warden gets punished hard for guessing incorrectly, it's no longer spammable anymore

I appreciate the fact you realize that. But thats not true at all, it can be spammed, 10 times in a row (probably less). You cannot punish him unless you play raider or he full charges or theres some kind of lag.

I've tested it with kensei, I cannot punish a non charged SB with a gb, you can always CGB if you are quick. Same goes with warlords and conqs, I need to test LB shove, but i presume is the same.

Oupyz
05-01-2017, 02:09 PM
thee funny thing i just played vs an lllb , who basically didn't bother to attack , just block shove to light or rblock shove to gb

he didn''t realy bother to throw a light even or trieed to parry a feinted heavy nothing at alll

i just alt+f4

is this the game the dev wants ? :xD

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 02:15 PM
I've tested it with kensei, I cannot punish a non charged SB with a gb, you can always CGB if you are quick. Same goes with warlords and conqs, I need to test LB shove, but i presume is the same.

Have you ever considered the possibility that the problem is on your end? Because I've been GBed as Warden and have GBed Wardens off dodged uncharged shoulder bashes many times with many characters, it's untechable.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 02:17 PM
Have you ever considered the possibility that the problem is on your end, because I've been GBed as Warden and GB Warden off dodged uncharged shoulder bashes many times with many characters, it's untechable.

Ever heard about latency ? I've heard with FH is pretty consistent.

On a private match against a real friend who lives a few Km from me ( aka, low latency) is not counterable.

If there is some kind of exploit to do it, I don't know, neither i care.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 02:18 PM
Ever heard about latency ? I've heard with FH is pretty consistent.

On a private match against a real friend whi lives a few KM from me ( aka, low latency) is not counterable.

If there is some kind of exploit to do it, I don't know, neither i care.

You're free to visit r/CompetitiveForHonor and see that the vast majority can confirm that you can get untechable GB off dodged uncharged shoulder bash.

So I'm sure that the problem is on your end.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 02:20 PM
You're free to visit r/CompetitiveForHonor and see that the vast majority can confirm that you can get untechable GB off dodged uncharged shoulder bash.

So I'm sure that the problem is on your end.

Show me video proofs. Im telling you its not possible. Maybe and I say MAYBE with a god like timing. But thats not going to happen in random matches.

GheyimeMadeMeAn
05-01-2017, 02:35 PM
Hi guys, appreciate the feedback! I do know the team is very interested in how people feel about the 50/50, as it is an interesting mechanic that we are still trying to work out.
If you've got any other constructive feedback on the 50/50 mechanic or warden changes let us know! I'd love to hear some more opinions and show this thread to the team.

When is parry nerf?

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 02:40 PM
Show me video proofs. Im telling you its not possible. Maybe and I say MAYBE with a god like timing. But thats not going to happen in random matches.
God-like timing is not required, you only need to have reaction time not that of a grandma. If you can GB off a dodged Conq's shield bash, you can get a GB off a dodged shoulder bash as the recovery time is even more generous.

You can awalys check out these threads.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/68a147/warden_shoulder_bash_post_patch/
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/68dufl/is_the_new_warden_vortex_punishable/?st=J25ML4TS&sh=d95e9144

TheLastPandaa
05-01-2017, 03:06 PM
Warden is now balanced.


Stop arguing.

I really think you are right, but still a very good character.

Haemmerst0rm
05-01-2017, 03:32 PM
I really think you are right, but still a very good character.

It's not balanced.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 03:43 PM
God-like timing is not required, you only need to have reaction time not that of a grandma. If you can GB off a dodged Conq's shield bash, you can get a GB off a dodged shoulder bash as the recovery time is even more generous.

You can awalys check out these threads.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/68a147/warden_shoulder_bash_post_patch/
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/68dufl/is_the_new_warden_vortex_punishable/?st=J25ML4TS&sh=d95e9144

Asked for video proofs not some warden fanboys excuses on reddit. I tried, with kensei and shugoki. Not possible to GB if they do not charge mid/full the bash, otherwise they will always be able to CGB, unless theres some sort of latency betwenn you and your opponent.

All tries were done with a RL friend, who lives near me, so presumably a very low latency duel.

Probably raider can do it, because its the only one who can GB during side dash. The others need to wait the dodge animation.But as I said I never tried with him.

Beetlejuice1686
05-01-2017, 03:56 PM
Asked for video proofs not some warden fanboys excuses on reddit. I tried, with kensei and shugoki. Not possible to GB if they do not charge mid/full the bash, otherwise they will always be able to CGB, unless theres some sort of latency betwenn you and your opponent.

All tries were done with a RL friend, who lives near me, so presumably a very low latency duel.

Probably raider can do it, because its the only one who can GB during side dash. The others need to wait the dodge animation.But as I said I never tried with him.

Why wouldnt you use a swift strike into a chain on kensi? Thats just bad...

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 04:04 PM
Why wouldnt you use a swift strike into a chain on kensi? Thats just bad...

Ever hearb about SB cancel into guaranteed parry ?

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 04:05 PM
Asked for video proofs not some warden fanboys excuses on reddit. I tried, with kensei and shugoki. Not possible to GB if they do not charge mid/full the bash, otherwise they will always be able to CGB, unless theres some sort of latency betwenn you and your opponent.

All tries were done with a RL friend, who lives near me, so presumably a very low latency duel.

Probably raider can do it, because its the only one who can GB during side dash. The others need to wait the dodge animation.But as I said I never tried with him.

Warden fanboys? Did you even read the threads?

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 04:07 PM
Ever hearb about SB cancel into guaranteed parry ?

Ever heard of dodging on reaction when the shoulder bash goes instead of preemptively?

Beetlejuice1686
05-01-2017, 04:16 PM
Ever heard of dodging on reaction when the shoulder bash goes instead of preemptively?

This!!!

Dhaleks
05-01-2017, 04:17 PM
My 2 cents :

I rarely see wardens abusing the shoulder bash, most of them play safe with the turtle meta - the shoulder bash spam isn't that efficient anyway...
Honestly, I don't feel like the warden needed a nerf in the first place : they're not that hard to fight, at least compared to PKs and Orochis. Playing a warden requires skill, whereas playing PK or orochi only requires to master a couple of easy spam combos.

Ubi needs to focus on those "easy" heroes, then they can fine-tune the other classes.

Brologna_Xeno
05-01-2017, 04:33 PM
Why wouldnt you use a swift strike into a chain on kensi? Thats just bad...

They wouldn't even have to parry the swift strike, just cancel to block iand get a guaranteed GB counter.

Kensei's opener, according to the devs themselves, is a top heavy feint to top light.

That's another window for guaranteed GB counter, since Feints are GB punishable.

As for where Warden stands on the hierarchy, FAIK Warden is not in the top 4, but they weren't before the nerf either.

pure_energist
05-01-2017, 04:34 PM
Yep, that's why Wardens are slaughtering PKs in tournaments.......oh wait....it's actually the opposite.

To those who say removing the GB from shoulder bash, do you know that that GB is the only thing that prevent people from simply turtling and dodging the shoulder bash and get free GB on Warden?

Here's the trick: In 1.06, warden can no longer cancel into GB when the bash start moving, so dodge when the bash starts moving instead of preemptively and get easy GB on Warden.

And that's just one of many ways to counter warden's vortex, at high level play when people know spacing and how to counter it, spamming vortex is suicide.

Read this reddit post on how to counter vortex:
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/68dufl/is_the_new_warden_vortex_punishable/dgytufg/


But it's always easier to ***** and moan instead of learning how to counter.

since you provided the Warlord's easy counter I will also add the Beserker's easy Counter.....not to this but also any other disruptive bashes by characters. There is an instant super armor move that goes largely unnoticed by Zerker's and that the backward zone attack. Hold back, hit zone,, instant super armor,, instant immunity from stagger attacks like the Shoulder Bash, LB Shove, conq Bash, Valk Bash.*everything super armor protects against*. Plus the Chops hit anyone attempting to guardbreak. IF you don't like that choice there is also the easy spin chop dodge...as long as you quick with the chop. ALSO back Zone Attack costs a fraction of stamina vs the normal forward zone.

pure_energist
05-01-2017, 04:41 PM
since you provided the Warlord's easy counter I will also add the Beserker's easy Counter.....not to this but also any other disruptive bashes by characters. There is an instant super armor move that goes largely unnoticed by Zerker's and that the backward zone attack. Hold back, hit zone,, instant super armor,, instant immunity from stagger attacks like the Shoulder Bash, LB Shove, conq Bash, Valk Bash.*everything super armor protects against*. Plus the Chops hit anyone attempting to guardbreak. IF you don't like that choice there is also the easy spin chop dodge...as long as you quick with the chop. ALSO back Zone Attack costs a fraction of stamina vs the normal forward zone.

Raider is also able to avoid this "vortex" as well due this ability to GB during a Dodge. Dodge Back and GB.. Warden will either miss his bash or be CGB in his attempt to Grab.

So that's 3 characters with fairly easy counters... I'm sure there are more.. So basically this Vortex will ONLY be workable vs certain classes that May not have a counter in their playbook.. yet I bet the community has already identified the majority if not all that do and could easily create a list of how to beat warden vortex based on class specific moves and not just general tactics.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 04:46 PM
since you provided the Warlord's easy counter I will also add the Beserker's easy Counter.....not to this but also any other disruptive bashes by characters. There is an instant super armor move that goes largely unnoticed by Zerker's and that the backward zone attack. Hold back, hit zone,, instant super armor,, instant immunity from stagger attacks like the Shoulder Bash, LB Shove, conq Bash, Valk Bash.*everything super armor protects against*. Plus the Chops hit anyone attempting to guardbreak. IF you don't like that choice there is also the easy spin chop dodge...as long as you quick with the chop. ALSO back Zone Attack costs a fraction of stamina vs the normal forward zone.

This, there're universal counters to Warden's vortex, but also specific counters exclusive to specific character, another one is Kensei's dash backward top light which will instantly put him out of shoulder bash range and counter any GB attempt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkuRubdBmNg

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/6643rn/kensei_vortex_counter_dashback_cancel_into_top/

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 04:52 PM
Ever heard of dodging on reaction when the shoulder bash goes instead of preemptively?

Are you really that dumb ? i lnow the other guy is, but you ? I clearly said it was a PRIVATE TEST to see if I could indeed Gba wardenfailed bash, and the tests are clear, you cannot, unless he full charges.

LEts do not even compare kensei vs warden cuz would be embarassing for kenseis.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 04:54 PM
Are you really that dumb ? i lnow the other guy is, but you ? I clearly said it was a PRIVATE TEST to see if I could indeed Gba wardenfailed bash, and the tests are clear, you cannot, unless he full charges.

We've already have confirmations of many high tier players over at r/CompetitiveForHonor, you're one the few who say otherwise. And GB is only one of many ways to dodge punish warden's whiffed shoulder bash.

pure_energist
05-01-2017, 04:55 PM
This, there're universal counters to Warden's vortex, but also specific counters exclusive to specific character, another one is Kensei's dash backward top light which will instantly put him out of shoulder bash range and counter any GB attempt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkuRubdBmNg

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/6643rn/kensei_vortex_counter_dashback_cancel_into_top/

This Reddit thread claimed the Kensei's counter could still be beat if the warden cancels and then sprints in range for the parry; HOWEVER< with the new patch and delay after a cancel I wonder if that's even possible now.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 04:55 PM
This, there're universal counters to Warden's vortex, but also specific counters exclusive to specific character, another one is Kensei's dash backward top light which will instantly put him out of shoulder bash range and counter any GB attempt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkuRubdBmNg

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/6643rn/kensei_vortex_counter_dashback_cancel_into_top/

Again you come back with anothe pre planned video about counters. I bet this kensei doesn't even play anymore. LOL

Let me see YOU regularly countering every attemt of 50/50, then we will speak again, until that moment you just brought air.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 04:57 PM
We've already have confirmations of many high tier players over at r/CompetitiveForHonor, you're one the few who say otherwise. And GB is only one of many ways to dodge punish warden's whiffed shoulder bash.

They are wwrong, is not possible, if it is, must be an exploit, but i guess top players are not new to such stuff

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 05:04 PM
Again you come back with anothe pre planned video about counters. I bet this kensei doesn't even play anymore. LOL

Baseless assumption that only makes you come off as childish, and if you check the Kensei's profile he's still quite active in For Honor and in fact has recently hosted a tournament.



Let me see YOU regularly countering every attemt of 50/50, then we will speak again, until that moment you just brought air.

And check out this guy's video, he was fighting against iSkys, one of the 2 very top Wardens, in a tournament, iSkys' shoulder bash got countered so much that he didn't even dare letting it go past the first 2 rounds, this was pre-nerf BTW.

https://youtu.be/VKbPDeCP1DQ?t=13m56s

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 05:05 PM
They are wwrong, is not possible, if it is, must be an exploit, but i guess top players are not new to such stuff

Or maybe, just maybe, that it's your own fault?

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 05:09 PM
Or maybe, just maybe, that it's your own fault?

Maybe. but i tried, your reddit guys are just speaking.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 05:12 PM
Maybe. but i tried, your reddit guys are just speaking.

They spoke from their own experience.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 05:27 PM
They spoke from their own experience.

and im speaking from my own tests. Cannot punish a warden.

About the video u posted, are you sure was the right one ? That warden badly lost and used bash 2-3 times in 3 rounds. Here you go a better prove.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRx2Sgwg06M

Here what this game is all about. Look LOL

And i have another video showing the two best wardens spam SB for 3 minutes in a row. Cannot find it tho.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 05:35 PM
and im speaking from my own tests. Cannot punish a warden.

About the video u posted, are you sure was the right one ? That warden badly lost and used bash 2-3 times in 3 rounds. Here you go a better prove.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRx2Sgwg06M

Here what this game is all about. Look LOL

And i have another video showing the two best wardens spam SB for 3 minutes in a row. Cannot find it tho.

You meant Warden lost against someone who knows how to counter his bread and butter, and thus couldn't spam it anymore?

What's your point in linking videos of fights against people who don't know how to counter vortex? If anything it emphasize my point further, vortex only works against people who don't know how to counter it.

Oh BTW, iSkys fought against Extheleon and won.

Beetlejuice1686
05-01-2017, 05:36 PM
and im speaking from my own tests. Cannot punish a warden.

About the video u posted, are you sure was the right one ? That warden badly lost and used bash 2-3 times in 3 rounds. Here you go a better prove.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRx2Sgwg06M

Here what this game is all about. Look LOL

And i have another video showing the two best wardens spam SB for 3 minutes in a row. Cannot find it tho.

Your tests dont always necessitate whats actually possible, seems you have a sluggish reaction time and instead of trying to hone it you come here and cry!! Noob tests are just that, tests performed by a noob. All you proved is you cant

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 05:39 PM
Your tests dont always necessitate whats actually possible, seems you have a sluggish reaction time and instead of trying to hone it you come here and cry!! Noob tests are just that, tests performed by a noob. All you proved is you cant

This, when many other can replicate the same result except one, one should question his own abilities first.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 06:14 PM
This, when many other can replicate the same result except one, one should question his own abilities first.

Call a friend, and try it, then post the video here, I will wait you, so you will make something usefull instead relying all your arguments from others rumors
As you can hearat the start of the video, that warlord is the guy who have beaten iSkys, not a noob like most people here trying to defend that cancer.


Your tests dont always necessitate whats actually possible, seems you have a sluggish reaction time and instead of trying to hone it you come here and cry!! Noob tests are just that, tests performed by a noob. All you proved is you cant

Saying that from the same guy who flamed an entire thread with racist arguments, and how the game is fine, but the whole community internet sucks, is almost offensive. You are an idiot, so pls go to actually learn some education from your parents if they have time to spend with you.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 06:18 PM
Oh yes for all the others following our debate

https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/UrWaifuAintReal/heroes

Warden main, surprised ? Neither I am LOL

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 06:19 PM
Call a friend, and try it, then post the video here, I will wait you, so you will make something usefull instead relying all your arguments from others rumors
As you can hearat the start of the video, that warlord is the guy who have beaten iSkys, not a noob like most people here trying to defend that cancer.
.

Warlord doesn't necessarily need to know how to counter warden's vortex to beat him, since Warlord's own cheese is much stronger and overall is a much stronger character than warden, your logic is deeply flawed.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 06:21 PM
Warlord doesn't necessarily need to know how to counter warden's vortex to beat him, since Warlord's own cheese is much stronger and overall is a much stronger character than warden, your logic is deeply flawed.

So what ? Just because warlords are completely broken and cheap doesn't mean others classes can have the same rights to be broken. Its called logic.

This is a warden thread.

Im active on Lb shove off block thread too. Don't worry.

Speaking abot WL and pk's its as clear as sun they are completely bad designed.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 06:24 PM
So what ? Just because warlords are completely broken and cheap doesn't mean others classes can have the same rights to be broken. Its called logic.

I've already shown you a video of an orochi kicking one of (if not) the very top warden players' *** by completely neutralizing his vortex, Warden's without vortex is nothing, and any character can neutralize it.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 06:26 PM
Oh yes for all the others following our debate

https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/UrWaifuAintReal/heroes

Warden main, surprised ? Neither I am LOL

The funny thing is I actually spend more times on other characters than Warden, lmao.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/813307680280049567/B10CFFE63EA63591C77C47FBD9AE60F3969AE28C/

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 06:28 PM
The funny thing is I actually spend more times on other characters than Warden, lmao.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/813307680280049567/B10CFFE63EA63591C77C47FBD9AE60F3969AE28C/

Warden main defending warden, move along pls, all your credibility has gone, like the dedicated servers

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 06:30 PM
And nonetheless you have better stats on your warden. LEL.

Oh really? You might wanna check the KDA on my zerker and compare it to my warden.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 06:32 PM
I've already shown you a video of an orochi kicking one of (if not) the very top warden players' *** by completely neutralizing his vortex, Warden's without vortex is nothing, and any character can neutralize it.

That orochi kicked nothing, that warden played extremely bad.

However, orochi is still an ultra fast assassin right ? With an extreme fast dodge attack right ? Yeah must be why he countered the 3 bashes in 3 rounds.
And then i bring examples of one of the best warden ( for real) vortexspam to death another headbutt spamme which is also considered a top player nonetheless.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 06:36 PM
That orochi kicked nothing, that warden played extremely bad.
.

Lmao, iSkys? Bad, you've lost all of your credibility there, iSkys is considered to be the very top competitive Warden and later on after the date of your warlord video, he fought against Extheleon (the Warden in your Warlord video) and kicked the **** out Extheleon.

And the Orochi player failed to counter the last 3 bash in 3 rounds completely invalidate the times he completely neutralize the vortex right?

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 06:37 PM
Oh really? You might wanna check the KDA on my zerker and compare it to my warden.

Oh yes plese, let me laugh when i will see a 7 prestiged stats vs 1 prestiged stats, let me laugh

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 06:39 PM
Oh yes plese, let me laugh when i will see a 7 prestiged stats vs 1 prestiged stats, let me laugh

Prestigue means nothing, it's just the amount of time you spend on your character, doesn't necessarily mean it's your best character.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 06:41 PM
Lmao, iSkys? Bad, you've lost all of your credibility there, iSkys is considered to be the very top competitive Warden and later on after the date of your warlord video, he fought against Extheleon (the Warden in your Warlord video) and kicked the **** out Extheleon.

And the Orochi player failed to counter the last 3 bash in 3 rounds completely invalidate the times he completely neutralize the vortex right?

That warlord destroyed skies, invalid argument. In that circumstances he played like a dog. Thats why he loss 3.0. Same with tru3 with his Pk. In that circumstances both played bad, thats doesn't mean tey are bad, infact tru3 could easily beat you and me ofc with one hand, while holding a candlestick with the other one.

The whole argument here is healthy having spammable 50/50 ? Answer no.

is not even an opinion, is an irrefutable fact.

Prestige means how much time you spend on that character, and its as cleas as sun you spend the whole time with your preciuos warden, like I spent mine with a LB.

The differences between us, is that you are acting like a lamer, i do recognize when some changes do not suit well for the game's good. Infact im against block > shove 50/50 and I'am a lvl 10 prestiged LB.

You are not beeing an objective person here dude, I'm sorry.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 06:49 PM
That warlord destroyed skies, invalid argument. In that circumstances he played like a dog. Thats why he loss 3.0. Same with tru3 with his Pk. In that circumstances both played bad, thats doesn't mean tey are bad, infact tru3 could easily beat you and me ofc with one hand, while holding a candlestick with the other one.

No, did you even ****ing watch the video? Noticed how many times he tried to let the shoulder bash go he got countered?



The whole argument here is healthy having spammable 50/50 ? Answer no.

is not even an opinion, is an irrefutable fact.

It is an opinion, the competitive community at high level play actually like having mind game, and nevermind that Warden's vortex is no longer spammable against anybody with a brain because the punish window is much larger now.



Prestige means how much time you spend on that character, and its as cleas as sun you spend the whole time with your preciuos warden, like I spent mine with a LB.
Yeah, never mind that I'm only Rep 7 on my Wardens despite being prestige 16, wonder where did I spend the time leveling up those 9 prestiges on.



The differences between us, is that you are acting like a lamer, i do recognize when some changes do not suit well for the game's good. Infact im against block > shove 50/50 and I'am a lvl 10 prestiged LB.

The difference between us is that you have no freaking clue what you are talking about and just blindly follow tru3's words as gospel, and FYI, and I did advocate a nerf on shoulder bash's stamina cost and make it having a longer recovery time on whiff so you can get a free GB off dodged shoulder bash. Feel free to check my posts history.

pure_energist
05-01-2017, 07:02 PM
No, did you even ****ing watch the video? Noticed how many times he tried to let the shoulder bash go he got countered?



It is an opinion, the competitive community at high level play actually like having mind game, and nevermind that Warden's vortex is no longer spammable against anybody with a brain because the punish window is much larger now.


Yeah, never mind that I'm only Rep 7 on my Wardens despite being prestige 16, wonder where did I spend the time leveling up those 9 prestiges on.



The difference between us is that you have no freaking clue what you are talking about and just blindly follow tru3's words as gospel, and FYI, and I did advocate a nerf on shoulder bash's stamina cost and make it having a longer recovery time on whiff so you can get a free GB off dodged shoulder bash. Feel free to check my posts history.

https://media.giphy.com/media/uqPDIEPMODKne/giphy.gif

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 07:18 PM
No, did you even ****ing watch the video? Noticed how many times he tried to let the shoulder bash go he got countered?



It is an opinion, the competitive community at high level play actually like having mind game, and nevermind that Warden's vortex is no longer spammable against anybody with a brain because the punish window is much larger now.


Yeah, never mind that I'm only Rep 7 on my Wardens despite being prestige 16, wonder where did I spend the time leveling up those 9 prestiges on.



The difference between us is that you have no freaking clue what you are talking about and just blindly follow tru3's words as gospel, and FYI, and I did advocate a nerf on shoulder bash's stamina cost and make it having a longer recovery time on whiff so you can get a free GB off dodged shoulder bash. Feel free to check my posts history.


1)Your video means **** dude, there are dozens of other proofs that show how unfair is the SB cancel into GB. Just because that orochi guessed right a couple of times doesn't mean its an assured counter.

2) i think that one is the best part especially after ( your words )


The game is currently a cheese spam at high level playt


You speak too many BS dude, thats why you will find yourself to refute your own arguments

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 07:24 PM
1)Your video means **** dude, there are dozens of other proofs that show how unfair is the SB cancel into GB. Just because that orochi guessed right a couple of times doesn't mean its an assured counter.

You mean dozens of other people who have no clue how to counter vortex as proof that vortex is OP? I've already shown you evidence that vortex can be countered, including methods of how to counter it, yet you're still spouting the same thing over and over again like smashing your head against the wall, you've presented no argument.



2) i think that one is the best part especially after ( your words )




You speak too many BS dude, thats why you will find yourself to refute your own arguments

So? That's the problem across the whole game, not something that is exclusive to Warden, until the defensive meta gets nerfed the only way to win is to spam the same safe attack over and over again, and Warden's shoulder bash is no longer safe because the punish window is much larger now.

Beetlejuice1686
05-01-2017, 07:39 PM
Call a friend, and try it, then post the video here, I will wait you, so you will make something usefull instead relying all your arguments from others rumors
As you can hearat the start of the video, that warlord is the guy who have beaten iSkys, not a noob like most people here trying to defend that cancer.



Saying that from the same guy who flamed an entire thread with racist arguments, and how the game is fine, but the whole community internet sucks, is almost offensive. You are an idiot, so pls go to actually learn some education from your parents if they have time to spend with you.

Funny, cuz you're the one using a language horribly talking about someone needed education 😂😂😂 I see the truth has you butthurt. Its cute. Rage more, the tears of little butthurt virgins fuels me 😂😂

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 07:53 PM
Funny, cuz you're the one using a language horribly talking about someone needed education ������ I see the truth has you butthurt. Its cute. Rage more, the tears of little butthurt virgins fuels me ����

It was not meant as insult, but as a fact. You are an idiot, or at very least act lie one ( no differences in my book), so please feel free to flame all you want, you are going directly into ignore list for the sake of the topic, i don't want it closed.


You mean dozens of other people who have no clue how to counter vortex as proof that vortex is OP? I've already shown you evidence that vortex can be countered, including methods of how to counter it, yet you're still spouting the same thing over and over again like smashing your head against the wall, you've presented no argument.



So? That's the problem across the whole game, not something that is exclusive to Warden, until the defensive meta gets nerfed the only way to win is to spam the same safe attack over and over again, and Warden's shoulder bash is no longer safe because the punish window is much larger now.

I already told you, im calling the warden because its a warden thread, same goes with conqs and warlords. And for shugoki pre nerf.
And now with LB block shove.

For honor is a mlee fighting game with medieval tones, not Smackdown vs Raw 2017.

Beetlejuice1686
05-01-2017, 07:54 PM
It was not meant as insult, but as a fact. You are an idiot, or at very least act lie one ( no differences in my book), so please feel free to flame all you want, you are going directly into ignore list for the sake of the topic, i don't want it closed.



I already told you, im calling the warden because its a warden thread, same goes with conqs and warlords. And for shugoki pre nerf.
And now with LB block shove.

The bads are real, but lack of skill is cuz of OP heros when infact its been proven and shown they can and have been dealt with

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 07:55 PM
For honor is a mlee fighting game with medieval tones, not Smackdown vs Raw 2017.

That's it? That's your argument?

And like I've said, spamming shoulder bash now against people who know how to counter it is suicide.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 07:59 PM
That's it? That's your argument?

And like I've said, spamming shoulder bash now against people who know how to counter it is suicide.

So im expecting to see 0 wardens in the next tournament. If is so bad as you say. People won't use him right ?

UrWaifuAintReal
05-01-2017, 08:01 PM
So im expecting to see 0 wardens in the next tournament. If is so bad as you say. People won't use him right ?

People will still use him, just like people will still use zerker, kensei, orochi, valk and other characters, just don't expect Warden to get anywhere near the top.

Oh and Warden is also got a big nerf in 2 v 2, he can no longer switcher target mid bash.

Netcode_err_404
05-01-2017, 08:27 PM
People will still use him, just like people will still use zerker, kensei, orochi, valk and other characters, just don't expect Warden to get anywhere near the top.

Oh and Warden is also got a big nerf in 2 v 2, he can no longer switcher target mid bash.

Big nerf, game breaking I would say.

People will use kensei ? In tourneys ? When ? LOL. They will acontinue to use free damage classes like top 4. Now that they nerfed the shugoki at least we won't see both shugoki spend 3 minutes baiting each others with oni charge.

Haemmerst0rm
05-02-2017, 12:11 AM
Keep giving suggestions guys! :)

Tomas_Jari
05-02-2017, 05:57 PM
Please, change sholuder bash for something else. I mean what is it? I like warden, how he looks. bot wtf is that vortex? he is going forward like some superman. it looks awful. I like LB vortex, warlord wortex, valkyria's vortex,... bot what the hell is that charakter go with his shoulder forward 3-4 meters? it looks funny and stupid. Really :DD and how the hell he is so quick with that long sword? omg

Antonioj26
05-02-2017, 06:02 PM
Please, change sholuder bash for something else. I mean what is it? I like warden, how he looks. bot wtf is that vortex? he is going forward like some superman. it looks awful. I like LB vortex, warlord wortex, valkyria's vortex,... bot what the hell is that charakter go with his shoulder forward 3-4 meters? it looks funny and stupid. Really :DD and how the hell he is so quick with that long sword? omg

Warlord, LB, and Valkyrie don't have a vortex, they are sorta 50/50s but not true 50/50s since depending on who you ask they are reactable, less so on console but still not a vortex nonetheless.

Netcode_err_404
05-02-2017, 06:14 PM
Keep giving suggestions guys! :)

Theres nothing to suggest really.

Warden SB cancel into GB is lame. Is so lame he is the only class in the game that can do it

- Nobushi canno tcancel her kick, and most of the times she is even punished with a free GB ( something that warden cannot)
- LB cannot cancel shove or Long arm. Speaking about long arm is ****ing useless in every 1v1 scenarios.
- Shugoki lost his knowckdowsn on oni charge
- Conquerors cannot cancel shield bash.


So I would like to hear why wardens can cancel SB with a GB and all the others cannot, is not like nobushi and LB have others tool, infact warden is superior to both, in all aspects of the game.

I won't talk about pk's and Warlords, because they are indeed better than wardens, but they have their own dedicated topics.

For what it worths, considering in both of them main users are saying pk and warlords are fine now .

Oupyz
05-02-2017, 06:39 PM
Theres nothing to suggest really.

Warden SB cancel into GB is lame. Is so lame he is the only class in the game that can do it

- Nobushi canno tcancel her kick, and most of the times she is even punished with a free GB ( something that warden cannot)
- LB cannot cancel shove or Long arm. Speaking about long arm is ****ing useless in every 1v1 scenarios.
- Shugoki lost his knowckdowsn on oni charge
- Conquerors cannot cancel shield bash.


So I would like to hear why wardens can cancel SB with a GB and all the others cannot, is not like nobushi and LB have others tool, infact warden is superior to both, in all aspects of the game.

I won't talk about pk's and Warlords, because they are indeed better than wardens, but they have their own dedicated topics.

For what it worths, considering in both of them main users are saying pk and warlords are fine now .


true , but Lb has also block shove that is badlly designed and i'am so against it
for a reason that lb don''t need to risk a parry and he will go into a 50/50 situation just by blocking and shoving after which makes it a very lame matchup against all classes

about lord/pk they still meta lord nothing changed , headbut spam all day long

Haemmerst0rm
05-02-2017, 06:52 PM
true , but Lb has also block shove that is badlly designed and i'am so against it
for a reason that lb don''t need to risk a parry and he will go into a 50/50 situation just by blocking and shoving after which makes it a very lame matchup against all classes

about lord/pk they still meta lord nothing changed , headbut spam all day long

I agree. Guardbreak from shoulderbash needs to be FULLY gone. It's such a cheesing tactic and totally unfun for the opponent. They removed it on warlord and valkyrie. REMOVE IT ON WARDEN TOO FOR CHRIST SAKE UBISOFT! D:

Netcode_err_404
05-02-2017, 07:13 PM
true , but Lb has also block shove that is badlly designed and i'am so against it
for a reason that lb don''t need to risk a parry and he will go into a 50/50 situation just by blocking and shoving after which makes it a very lame matchup against all classes

about lord/pk they still meta lord nothing changed , headbut spam all day long

I agree, infact Im against block shove 50/50. Totally pro with having it on dodge > shove. Because the shove is easily dodgeable

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
05-02-2017, 07:18 PM
You must be joking. Kensei is the worst player in the game and I main one for christs sake.
No free unblockables, no special moves, no openers, no real attacking mechanisms, terrible attack speed, medium strength heavys, a dodgy guard break AND if that wasn't enough, a slow stance change.
Kensei is by far the worst character.
Bear in mind though;that doesn't mean some people dont do well with him. I have a 14.5 k/d and a 3.4 w/l with him, I love him. But he's clearly the bottom character.

Raider *drops mic*

Netcode_err_404
05-02-2017, 07:33 PM
Raider *drops mic*

Well at least raiders can do some serious damage, and have an unblockable za whic is a lot usefull, they do not need to do 3 successfull combo attack to use a slow awfull top unblokable heavy

Beetlejuice1686
05-02-2017, 07:36 PM
Well at least raiders can do some serious damage, and have an unblockable za whic is a lot usefull, they do not need to do 3 successfull combo attack to use a slow awfull top unblokable heavy

Ur still crying about this and talking like you know how to play? 😂😂😂

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
05-02-2017, 08:21 PM
Well at least raiders can do some serious damage, and have an unblockable za whic is a lot usefull, they do not need to do 3 successfull combo attack to use a slow awfull top unblokable heavy

One side step attack confirms into Unblockable.

Kensei's unblockable has many more mix up options than the Raider's UB

Anything Raider has Kensei can do better (except ledging lol)

Netcode_err_404
05-02-2017, 08:24 PM
One side step attack confirms into Unblockable.

Kensei's unblockable has many more mix up options than the Raider's UB

Anything Raider has Kensei can do better (except ledging lol)

Side attacks is parried 90% of the times.

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
05-02-2017, 08:27 PM
Side attacks is parried 90% of the times.

And Raider's UB isn't?

Netcode_err_404
05-02-2017, 08:30 PM
And Raider's UB isn't?

Can be feinted at least

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
05-02-2017, 08:38 PM
Can be feinted at least

Whiff 2 Lights out of range and go directly in UB, which can be feinted and has better mix ups

Beetlejuice1686
05-02-2017, 08:56 PM
And Raider's UB isn't?

Raiders are great at running people out of stamina and baiting parries with the ub, which should be his primary focus. As for kensis side, u dont even have to parry to get a free gb, good initiation is helm splitter, but his best is top heavy feinted to top light.

Netcode_err_404
05-02-2017, 09:21 PM
Whiff 2 Lights out of range and go directly in UB, which can be feinted and has better mix ups

Yes, after 2 attacks at the void, your opponet won't ever imagine whats next

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
05-02-2017, 09:54 PM
Yes, after 2 attacks at the void, your opponet won't ever imagine whats next

About as telegraphed as the Raider's UB lol

Djebeo
05-02-2017, 09:56 PM
Ok so, because I see a lot of tunnel vision here, I will try to give my vision on 1.06 Warden.

First of all, please remember that initiating a Shoulder Bash is a risk in itself. You don't launch the shoulder bash from idle, you either have to light attack that can be parried, or to input a dodge, that can be gb'ed for free (even on reaction)
It is not a free move, like everything in For Honor it has it's part of risk.

Then on the bash itself: It forces a guess, but if you guess right, you punish the warden.
Dodge the bash and it is not cancelled, you get a free gb (as of 1.06)
Light attack on the bash and it is cancelled into gb and you get a free light (which can be devastating for some chars, like orochi double top, or light into combos for other chars)
Dodge when he keeps the charge, you can dodge again and get another free gb.
if he feints it you have free gb window, or free light attack window if you predicted it.

Not to mention the amount of characters that have moves that beat two options (conqueror, berserker, kensei, valkyrie, orochi, nobushi, and lawbringer all have a dodge attack or a dodge bash that beat both the bash and the cancel into gb.) Of course, these moves are still beaten by the feint, but the feint is only 1 out of 4 things that the warden can do. You win the 3 others.

So is shoulder bash a powerfull tool ? Yes, because it is one of the very few turtle breaker moves. It forces a reaction. So it is a strong tool because it lets very aggressive wardens dictate the pace of the fight.
But it is not an op move, because for every option that the warden have, you have at least an answer that does similar damage, if not more.
Depending of your characters, you have moves that beat one, two, or three of the outcomes.

So what has changed with 1.06 ?
There were two op things before:
-Letting the bash go was a safe option against a lot of matchups, as it was not punishable by a free gb on dodge, unless you were playing a raider or a warlord. Also, sometimes it would stagger on a short miss, making any attempt of punishing useless. All of this is gone, now every class consistantly punish a bash with a gb if they manage to dodge it.
-It was possible to charge the bash and look for the opponent reaction, and cancel the bash as they were dodging, or just letting it go. This is not possible anymore. You have to commit to either bashing or cancelling or charging or feinting. And as we saw all those options are punishable (feinting being the least punishable).

Imo, warden is balanced after 1.06. I understand that bash is a frustrating mechanic, because you are forced to react, and everybody is used to just turtling, but with proper analysis of the situation, you can see that it might be your way of reacting to the move that is wrong.
Good players have no issue beating wardens, this is why, despite indeniably being top tier due to his ability to open turtles, you almost never see a warden winning a tournament.

Netcode_err_404
05-02-2017, 10:35 PM
Ok so, because I see a lot of tunnel vision here, I will try to give my vision on 1.06 Warden.

First of all, please remember that initiating a Shoulder Bash is a risk in itself. You don't launch the shoulder bash from idle, you either have to light attack that can be parried, or to input a dodge, that can be gb'ed for free (even on reaction)
It is not a free move, like everything in For Honor it has it's part of risk.

Then on the bash itself: It forces a guess, but if you guess right, you punish the warden.
Dodge the bash and it is not cancelled, you get a free gb (as of 1.06)
Light attack on the bash and it is cancelled into gb and you get a free light (which can be devastating for some chars, like orochi double top, or light into combos for other chars)
Dodge when he keeps the charge, you can dodge again and get another free gb.
if he feints it you have free gb window, or free light attack window if you predicted it.

Not to mention the amount of characters that have moves that beat two options (conqueror, berserker, kensei, valkyrie, orochi, nobushi, and lawbringer all have a dodge attack or a dodge bash that beat both the bash and the cancel into gb.) Of course, these moves are still beaten by the feint, but the feint is only 1 out of 4 things that the warden can do. You win the 3 others.

So is shoulder bash a powerfull tool ? Yes, because it is one of the very few turtle breaker moves. It forces a reaction. So it is a strong tool because it lets very aggressive wardens dictate the pace of the fight.
But it is not an op move, because for every option that the warden have, you have at least an answer that does similar damage, if not more.
Depending of your characters, you have moves that beat one, two, or three of the outcomes.

So what has changed with 1.06 ?
There were two op things before:
-Letting the bash go was a safe option against a lot of matchups, as it was not punishable by a free gb on dodge, unless you were playing a raider or a warlord. Also, sometimes it would stagger on a short miss, making any attempt of punishing useless. All of this is gone, now every class consistantly punish a bash with a gb if they manage to dodge it.
-It was possible to charge the bash and look for the opponent reaction, and cancel the bash as they were dodging, or just letting it go. This is not possible anymore. You have to commit to either bashing or cancelling or charging or feinting. And as we saw all those options are punishable (feinting being the least punishable).

Imo, warden is balanced after 1.06. I understand that bash is a frustrating mechanic, because you are forced to react, and everybody is used to just turtling, but with proper analysis of the situation, you can see that it might be your way of reacting to the move that is wrong.
Good players have no issue beating wardens, this is why, despite indeniably being top tier due to his ability to open turtles, you almost never see a warden winning a tournament.

The fact that Warlords and pk are indeed better ( and with better i mean more broken), doesn't mean wardens are fine.

if you guys are fine about him cancelling a SB into a GB, why conqs, nobushi and LB's can't do the same with their bashes ? I would love to cancel a long arm and have a guaranteed GB because i can cancel mid animation something that I shoudn't.

Warlords and pk's have their own trhreads. about warlords, iI don't even think they are going to get nerfed anytime soon.

Djebeo
05-02-2017, 11:11 PM
The fact that Warlords and pk are indeed better ( and with better i mean more broken), doesn't mean wardens are fine.

if you guys are fine about him cancelling a SB into a GB, why conqs, nobushi and LB's can't do the same with their bashes ? I would love to cancel a long arm and have a guaranteed GB because i can cancel mid animation something that I shoudn't.

Warlords and pk's have their own trhreads. about warlords, iI don't even think they are going to get nerfed anytime soon.

Conq, nobushi and lawbringer have another kit.
Conq's bash is almost two times faster, conq has superior block preventing anyone from using heavy attacks against him, and conq is basically immune to heavy feints into gb due to the way he cancels his heavies.
Lawbringer has a free shove off block that can lead to a mixup that is reactable, but hard to react nonetheless in the heat of battle. Anyway, on block it at least creates distance, and drains stam. Not to mention the best parry followup options in the game, and one of the best environemental game. Longarm has very little uses in 1v1 situations, but it is borderline op in 4v4 modes.
Nobushi has the unique ability to cancel lights (without exploits), some attacks that are unpunishable on parry against some matchups, plus the fact that her kick, even when dodged, isn't always punishable: you have to guess right to punish it (will the nobu link the missed kick with a light or not ? it is another 50/50) etc.

Those are just examples.

I am disappointed that you took the time to quote my post without actually responding to anything that I said, just using the same empty arguments I saw you post in this thread and others. The fact that you brought up Warlord and PK when I didn't mention them at all kind of shows me that you are just here to complain, not think. But I shouldn't be surprised on this forum.

If you think my analysis of 1.06 warden is wrong, please prove me so, I like to be proven wrong: that is how you improve.

Netcode_err_404
05-02-2017, 11:19 PM
Conq, nobushi and lawbringer have another kit.
Conq's bash is almost two times faster, conq has superior block preventing anyone from using heavy attacks against him, and conq is basically immune to heavy feints into gb due to the way he cancels his heavies.
Lawbringer has a free shove off block that can lead to a mixup that is reactable, but hard to react nonetheless in the heat of battle. Anyway, on block it at least creates distance, and drains stam. Not to mention the best parry followup options in the game, and one of the best environemental game. Longarm has very little uses in 1v1 situations, but it is borderline op in 4v4 modes.
Nobushi has the unique ability to cancel lights (without exploits), some attacks that are unpunishable on parry against some matchups, plus the fact that her kick, even when dodged, isn't always punishable: you have to guess right to punish it (will the nobu link the missed kick with a light or not ? it is another 50/50) etc.

Those are just examples.

I am disappointed that you took the time to quote my post without actually responding to anything that I said, just using the same empty arguments I saw you post in this thread and others. The fact that you brought up Warlord and PK when I didn't mention them at all kind of shows me that you are just here to complain, not think. But I shouldn't be surprised on this forum.

If you think my analysis of 1.06 warden is wrong, please prove me so, I like to be proven wrong: that is how you improve.

LB 50/50 after shove IS WRONG, needs to be fixed because its annoying and totally not needed.

Nobushi doesn't have "others tool" infact she has nothing except hidden which is risky ( unlike Shoulder bash spam/cancel), I may agree with conq, but the others are inferior to wardens, just because he can cancel and free Gb. Or cancel and parry.

For the records, every type of 50/50 are bad, and unhealthy for the game, UNLESS you use a cooldown for such skills.

Having a spammable 50/50 is just wrong, and stupid. And this goes for low/mid/high play. Because you see it, low lvl ppl spam it like theres no tomorrow, mid players spam it and high lvl players just play ultra defensive spamming those skills.

Tru3, sypher, and exthelon, are all top tier players, but they all spam safe crap unblockable because its too safe to do otherwise. And they are ****ing right.

You can keep to avoid the fact Im right, I do not care, but I invite you to think about it.

Nandomps123
05-03-2017, 12:11 AM
It's true the warden against a top player its easy to defeat, all the classes that have a good dodge can easily win

Netcode_err_404
05-03-2017, 12:24 AM
It's true the warden against a top player its easy to defeat, all the classes that have a good dodge can easily win

Thats at least 400 Km far from the truth.

Besides, good dodge means assassins. And assassins means pk. And we already claimed that Pk is vene more broken.

UrWaifuAintReal
05-03-2017, 01:50 AM
It's true the warden against a top player its easy to defeat, all the classes that have a good dodge can easily win

Even Shugoki and Lawbringers, the classes that have the worst dodge in the game can dodge it, it's harder but is definitely possible.

Also learn spacing, unless you're within touching distance with the warden, the shouder bash is one of, if not the easiest bash in the game to dodge.



For the records, every type of 50/50 are bad, and unhealthy for the game, UNLESS you use a cooldown for such skills.

Having a spammable 50/50 is just wrong, and stupid..

Your opinion, please do not spout it as fact.



for a reason that lb don''t need to risk a parry and he will go into a 50/50 situation just by blocking and shoving after which makes it a very lame matchup against all classes
Unless your have the reaction time that of a grandma, dodging a 500ms attack that you know is probably coming soon is not hard, and thus LB shove is no 50/50



if you guys are fine about him cancelling a SB into a GB, why conqs, nobushi and LB's can't do the same with their bashes ? I would love to cancel a long arm and have a guaranteed GB because i can cancel mid animation something that I shoudn't.

Because those classes have other tools in their kit and different attributes?

kweassa1917
05-03-2017, 02:09 AM
Even Shugoki and Lawbringers, the classes that have the worst dodge in the game can dodge it, it's harder but is definitely possible.

You can dodge a bullet if you react fast enough. I wonder if this fact makes you feel safer and more confident when you're held at gunpoint from someone.



Also learn spacing, unless you're within touching distance with the warden, the shouder bash is one of, if not the easiest bash in the game to dodge.

Yeah. Since close-range combat is one-sidedly stupid easy for the Warden, both parties stay out side of GB reach... and basically keep that way waiting for the other guy to make a mistake. Welcome to "Turtlemeta: Origins"



Your opinion, please do not spout it as fact.

It's a good opinion, certainly better than yours, isn't it? Defending a mechanic that forces the other player to flip a coin to decide whether he's hit or not, is like epitome of "lame" in a fighting game.



Unless your have the reaction time that of a grandma, dodging a 500ms attack that you know is probably coming soon is not hard, and thus LB shove is no 50/50

Except the incoming light is by itself a GB-light 50/50 at close ranges, although a bit more lenient in the requirements to counter on reflex. Thing is, you guys defending broken OP shi* have this weird tendency to pretend that the class-in-question uses nothing else but the skill-in-question. As if it was a controlled environment testing with a machine that uses a variation of same two skills in predictable intervals.



Because those classes have other tools in their kit and different attributes?

Like what?

UrWaifuAintReal
05-03-2017, 02:17 AM
You can dodge a bullet if you react fast enough. I wonder if this fact makes you feel safer and more confident when you're held at gunpoint from someone.

If you've watched stream alot like me you'd see players dodging it with those chars very consistently, should the game be balanced for bads?




Yeah. Since close-range combat is one-sidedly stupid easy for the Warden, both parties stay out side of GB reach... and basically keep that way waiting for the other guy to make a mistake. Welcome to "Turtlemeta: Origins"

Are you aware that to initiate the bash from neutral hoping for the bash to have any chance to , warden must dodge into shoulder bash or light attack and during the dodge or the start up, he can be GBed? And no, you don't have to stay out of GB range, you just need to not be withing touching distance, literally, with the warden.




It's a good opinion, certainly better than yours, isn't it? Defending a mechanic that forces the other player to flip a coin to decide whether he's hit or not, is like epitome of "lame" in a fighting game.

You don't even have to flip a coin, unless you're at very close range, everything warden does is reactable. Warden post-1.06 is that the one that has to flip coin because he can no longer react to his opponent's moves.




Except the incoming light is by itself a GB-light 50/50 at close ranges, although a bit more lenient in the requirements to counter on reflex. Thing is, you guys defending broken OP shi* have this weird tendency to pretend that the class-in-question uses nothing else but the skill-in-question. As if it was a controlled environment testing with a machine that uses a variation of same two skills in predictable intervals.

Those things are only "broken OP sh*" if you are bad and refuse to learn how to counter it. Against good players, abusing those "broken OP shi*" will get yourself killed in 1.06.




Like what?

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1650213-Warden-nerfs?p=12602565&viewfull=1#post12602565

Aibjorn
05-03-2017, 06:00 AM
Personally I have noticed nothing different. Still the same ole vortex spamming machine.

Haemmerst0rm
05-03-2017, 10:17 AM
Personally I have noticed nothing different. Still the same ole vortex spamming machine.

Yup. They also are planning to make rolling punishable by getting a free GB.... Just great, that makes the escape from warden vortex harder, come on. His GB out of shoulderbash is already stupid enough and now this. This aint helping the balancing of warden!

Haemmerst0rm
05-04-2017, 08:20 PM
Still not thinking about removing GB out of shoulderbash ubisoft? Getting tilted of this so cheap and cheesing warden move.....

Tomas_Jari
05-12-2017, 11:16 AM
Thay should completly remove Warden's shoulder bash. It looks stupid and awful and cheap. Wtf is that some hero go forward 4-5 meters like he is a superman. It looks so bul****. give hime something else. I like shield bash, I like warlord's headbut. I like valkyria vortex and LB's,too. But what the hell is Warden's vortex that he is going forward with his shoulder? again, it looks bul**** and stupid.go with shoulder to enemy's weapon.

CoyoteXStarrk
05-12-2017, 11:18 AM
Thay should completly remove Warden's shoulder bash. It looks stupid and awful and cheap. Wtf is that some hero go forward 4-5 meters like he is a superman. It looks so bul****. give hime something else. I like shield bash, I like warlord's headbut. I like valkyria vortex and LB's,too. But what the hell is Warden's vortex that he is going forward with his shoulder? again, it looks bul**** and stupid.go with shoulder to enemy's weapon.

Someone got wrecked by a Warden lol

Krell80
05-12-2017, 12:02 PM
But what the hell is Warden's vortex that he is going forward with his shoulder? again, it looks bul**** and stupid.go with shoulder to enemy's weapon.

And you say you like WL who's charging with his head at the ennemies?