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View Full Version : Can we please finally do something about the ledges?



wethebishop
04-30-2017, 02:07 PM
I'm not saying that environmentals shouldn't be in this game.

But for you to die instantly, without any kind of reaction possible, is incredibly dumb.

In duels, two opponents have to start walking around together to go to a reasonable place to fight. In some maps, that's just a little corner. And then you always have to wonder if you're opponent is in the minority that will just try to throw you off. When we start throwing each other off, the game starts to revolve around it and usually ends too quickly. When we don't throw each other off, we're restrained in what abilities we can use in certain situations and constrained by where we can fight. It affects the game too much.

If you get parried and someone tries to throw you off, there should be something that the player can react to that prevents an instant fall to death. There needs to something. I want to be able to fight on that thin bridge in an intense fight. I want to try to throw each other off! But I don't want the game to revolve around it.

Think of how many GB's are successful in a given fight, whether from a parry, one that comes from GBing while the opponent goes for a heavy, or just a straight GB. At that very first successful GB in a given fight in many areas on these maps, a match will end. Add in there the fact that GB counter pushes people off, shoves push people off, other abilities push people off, and even normal weapon swings push people off.

Currently, much of the player base simply won't fight in certain areas. You can change that.

Please, give us something we can react to that lets us prevent a fall at that last moment before falling. The same should go for spikes.

TLDR: Let me press the GB button or something to prevent a fall as I'm in the process of falling off of a ledge or into spikes.

CoyoteXStarrk
04-30-2017, 02:11 PM
Should they be removed? No.


Should they be changed? Yes.



It is an obviously no skill required kill that renders the game STUPID anytime people get close to edges. Both people turn into GB spamming morons that pray to god their opponent misses the counter before they do.


There is no skill.


Its just a button mashing poo flinging crapstorm.



It needs to be adjusted.

Herbstlicht
04-30-2017, 02:33 PM
And please rework the "slippery ground" effect. i mean even when the weather is fine, sometimes i stop before a ledge, but then my char decides to slide another few inches in slow mo to finally drop down the ledge. If it wasn't so hilarious ... ah well. Nioh was kinda cool in this regard. Use dash vs fall. Not always easy and assured, but could safe you at times.

wethebishop
04-30-2017, 04:29 PM
And please rework the "slippery ground" effect. i mean even when the weather is fine, sometimes i stop before a ledge, but then my char decides to slide another few inches in slow mo to finally drop down the ledge. If it wasn't so hilarious ... ah well. Nioh was kinda cool in this regard. Use dash vs fall. Not always easy and assured, but could safe you at times.

I know what you mean. You keep keep sliding and sliding until you fall. It's like you're getting sucked in.

DrExtrem
04-30-2017, 04:39 PM
Nope ... I like to shove people off ledges backwards with my counter guard break.

A taste of their own medicine ...

JarlYolo
04-30-2017, 05:43 PM
its a part of the game, watch where ur standing, sometimes u fall sometimes others:) dont wana get that removed for sure

KiahsRevenge
04-30-2017, 06:11 PM
I don't think it needs to be removed but adjusted. It happens to me a lot where I get GB thrown towards a ledge stumble stumble looks like I am going to be okay then bam sucked off the edge. It's apart of the game and I throw people to their deaths just as much as I am thrown to mine. It adds an interesting element to the game, as aggravating as it is. It's apart of the game but I do find it very stupid that some characters can push you 15 feet to your death. Warlord I am looking at you! It would be cool if maybe they could implement some sort of CGB like machanic to ledges or something of the like. it seems like the game registers any throw towards the edge as an instant death and a lot of the time you are just sucked off. Maybe have a very brief window to be able to catch yourself from falling off. Maybe if you are within a certain distance of a ledge it could be an automatic death but if you are staggered and fall close to it then you have a very small chance to be able to catch yourself and get back up. To many fights end early due whichever party throws the other one off first. That's my thought

TheMalakith
04-30-2017, 06:36 PM
its a part of the game, watch where ur standing, sometimes u fall sometimes others:) dont wana get that removed for sure

Watch where you're standing doesn't really apply to fighting warlords. They can litterally throw you off a cliff from the other side of the Duel/ brawl map on most maps.

wethebishop
04-30-2017, 09:15 PM
I never said it should be removed. I just want an added layer of skill to it.

Of course it's part of the game. I'm saying it shouldn't be part of the game in this manner because it negatively affects the game and limits where a certain large player base chooses to fight.

razabak10mm
04-30-2017, 09:28 PM
Moar cliffs/spikes/fire/etc please!

How else can a no name level nothing get some revenge on that cheese a$$ 108 that just spammed him to death? I love it.

So I'm playing the Viking map with all the bridges (forgot The name). There's Big Shug gaurding the bridge like he owns the damn thing. Well eff that I think, I'm gonna Raider charge his fat *** right off the thing.

Nope. Oni charge and I'm the bowling pin, he's the ball. Remember that this is before they nerfed it.

Course I get mad and charge right back up there. I'll just dodge it this time cause you know another Oni is coming.

Charge. Dodge. Raider goes flying. Raider goes splat. Son of a....

Well maybe if I time my charge just right I can get this guy. I'm going back, cause now I'm really pissed.

This time I was kicked off quicker than a United Arline's passenger.

At this point all I can do is laugh. I'm literally sitting there laughing at my tv.

Know what Big Shug? You're right buddy, that bridge is yours. You earned it. One of the most epic things I've seen on this game.

That's the only time I've seen a samurai earn the right to ax hump. All I wished is that he could stand on his bridge and ax hump in challenge to anyone who dared oppose him.

Skol! to you random Big Shug!!! You can ride dirteh with me any time.

Felis_Menari
04-30-2017, 10:01 PM
Aside from some duel maps, I don't see a problem with environmental kills in general. The Warlord's throw distance though, is pretty significant. In 4v4s you need to be more careful around Warlords than you do Raiders. At least they have the limitation of only carrying you long distances in one direction, lol.

SangLong524
04-30-2017, 10:09 PM
I'm not saying that environmentals shouldn't be in this game.

But for you to die instantly, without any kind of reaction possible, is incredibly dumb.

In duels, two opponents have to start walking around together to go to a reasonable place to fight. In some maps, that's just a little corner. And then you always have to wonder if you're opponent is in the minority that will just try to throw you off. When we start throwing each other off, the game starts to revolve around it and usually ends too quickly. When we don't throw each other off, we're restrained in what abilities we can use in certain situations and constrained by where we can fight. It affects the game too much.

If you get parried and someone tries to throw you off, there should be something that the player can react to that prevents an instant fall to death. There needs to something. I want to be able to fight on that thin bridge in an intense fight. I want to try to throw each other off! But I don't want the game to revolve around it.

Think of how many GB's are successful in a given fight, whether from a parry, one that comes from GBing while the opponent goes for a heavy, or just a straight GB. At that very first successful GB in a given fight in many areas on these maps, a match will end. Add in there the fact that GB counter pushes people off, shoves push people off, other abilities push people off, and even normal weapon swings push people off.

Currently, much of the player base simply won't fight in certain areas. You can change that.

Please, give us something we can react to that lets us prevent a fall at that last moment before falling. The same should go for spikes.

TLDR: Let me press the GB button or something to prevent a fall as I'm in the process of falling off of a ledge or into spikes.

well let me offer a clue, don't turn your backside to where ledges are. Or better yet, don't be there at all.
Personally, i believe environmental hazards are fine as they are. Falling doesn't always kill. Likely but not always. Some cases are guaranteed death like falling in the fissure or spike moats. Fire burns but not instant death. Spikes, well, instant death, what do you expect?!
GB counter has been incredibly easy since they patched it, provided that u don't get yourself into situations where u CAN'T counter at all.
some sort of reaction in case of falling off? a jump may be a good idea. Like u can hop back on the ledge just in time. But doubt u can jump in the Lawbringer's armor. So, u just have to keep practice guardbreak countering and understand the situations u put yourself (or let yourself be put into). It'll get better.
Or an option to hanging on the ledge can be good idea. Your teammate can come and help u up (like revive), or u can mash some button to get up. The opponent should also have an option to stomp your grasping fingers too, just to be fair.

SlashingElbow
04-30-2017, 10:13 PM
You guys are crazy. Its a skill in itself to position yourself correctly in a fight.. Weakest playerbase ever this game wow

CitizenPuddi
04-30-2017, 10:13 PM
well let me offer a clue, don't turn your backside to where ledges are. Or better yet, don't be there at all.

basically just dont play dominion

ever

CandleInTheDark
04-30-2017, 10:35 PM
Aside from some duel maps, I don't see a problem with environmental kills in general. The Warlord's throw distance though, is pretty significant. In 4v4s you need to be more careful around Warlords than you do Raiders. At least they have the limitation of only carrying you long distances in one direction, lol.

I think the duel maps is the main issue. If I get ledged on dominion, I screwed up, or I tried going on the bridge the raider is on rather than the one three seconds away, some duel maps like tower ruin where four out of five rounds can be insta-death (one of the areas you can move but if you're matched against a shugoki you better be ready to dodge which at least works now), it makes duel very not fun at times.

Panda2400
04-30-2017, 10:35 PM
I think that if you attack and knock them off, you can fly off to. you Gb them off you can get knocked off.

UbiNoty
05-01-2017, 12:35 AM
I believe we're looking at ledges and other environmental aspects and how they affect gameplay (especially as we start thinking about ranked) - we do think environmental hazards add an extra dimension to gameplay, but we also don't want it to be abused and exploited. We don't have any updates on this currently, but I just wanted to let you know that it is something we are aware of and thinking about.

CandleInTheDark
05-01-2017, 01:14 AM
I believe we're looking at ledges and other environmental aspects and how they affect gameplay (especially as we start thinking about ranked) - we do think environmental hazards add an extra dimension to gameplay, but we also don't want it to be abused and exploited. We don't have any updates on this currently, but I just wanted to let you know that it is something we are aware of and thinking about.

I wouldn't necessarily mind so much in duel except there are some maps where either it is unavoidable or any raider or warlord you meet stands right by the ledge and refuses to move, at that point it becomes who misses their cgb first. In the tower ruin, most times four out of five rounds are on that type of area.I faced a shugoki there before the charge got nerfed to be more dodgeable, it was impossible to deal with him then and even after the nerf you need to get the dodge just right.Speaking only for myself, I would not mind so much if they were there but not the whole focus of the round or if some were survivable but cost you like some dominion maps.

wethebishop
05-01-2017, 08:57 AM
I believe we're looking at ledges and other environmental aspects and how they affect gameplay (especially as we start thinking about ranked) - we do think environmental hazards add an extra dimension to gameplay, but we also don't want it to be abused and exploited. We don't have any updates on this currently, but I just wanted to let you know that it is something we are aware of and thinking about.

At least you're thinking about it

I think it's simple enough of a fix that you should be able to react in that moment you're about to fall

Specialkha
05-01-2017, 09:28 AM
I believe we're looking at ledges and other environmental aspects and how they affect gameplay (especially as we start thinking about ranked) - we do think environmental hazards add an extra dimension to gameplay, but we also don't want it to be abused and exploited. We don't have any updates on this currently, but I just wanted to let you know that it is something we are aware of and thinking about.

Just a tip, do not bother with ranked yet. Too many bugs,exploits, class not balanced, etc...

Herbstlicht
05-01-2017, 10:25 AM
Na, they should go for ranked. I mean: even if season 1 is a complete failure - nothing will show imbalances abuses and whatever more clear then a ranked. Though it might be an absolute mess, it as well could yield the fastest results when it comes to fixing. I mean: say goodbye to baby-step fixing and taking some real measures. No more forgetting the "low-end-hereos".

Beetlejuice1686
05-01-2017, 04:05 PM
Moar cliffs/spikes/fire/etc please!

How else can a no name level nothing get some revenge on that cheese a$$ 108 that just spammed him to death? I love it.

So I'm playing the Viking map with all the bridges (forgot The name). There's Big Shug gaurding the bridge like he owns the damn thing. Well eff that I think, I'm gonna Raider charge his fat *** right off the thing.

Nope. Oni charge and I'm the bowling pin, he's the ball. Remember that this is before they nerfed it.

Course I get mad and charge right back up there. I'll just dodge it this time cause you know another Oni is coming.

Charge. Dodge. Raider goes flying. Raider goes splat. Son of a....

Well maybe if I time my charge just right I can get this guy. I'm going back, cause now I'm really pissed.

This time I was kicked off quicker than a United Arline's passenger.

At this point all I can do is laugh. I'm literally sitting there laughing at my tv.

Know what Big Shug? You're right buddy, that bridge is yours. You earned it. One of the most epic things I've seen on this game.

That's the only time I've seen a samurai earn the right to ax hump. All I wished is that he could stand on his bridge and ax hump in challenge to anyone who dared oppose him.

Skol! to you random Big Shug!!! You can ride dirteh with me any time.

Well shuko has uninterruptable stance so dont know whyd you try to charge before breaking it, all it does then is remove it and leave you wide open, and fighting a shuk on a small bridge is just a bad choice, a bad judgement. Its a learning curve, i had to learn it too. Let em stand on the bridge, dont approach unless 2+ approaching from different sides, that way if 1 gets knocked off he now has to fight the other. Strategy, gotta use it sometimes.

KillCheapWarden
05-01-2017, 04:12 PM
I'm not saying that environmentals shouldn't be in this game.

But for you to die instantly, without any kind of reaction possible, is incredibly dumb.

In duels, two opponents have to start walking around together to go to a reasonable place to fight. In some maps, that's just a little corner. And then you always have to wonder if you're opponent is in the minority that will just try to throw you off. When we start throwing each other off, the game starts to revolve around it and usually ends too quickly. When we don't throw each other off, we're restrained in what abilities we can use in certain situations and constrained by where we can fight. It affects the game too much.

If you get parried and someone tries to throw you off, there should be something that the player can react to that prevents an instant fall to death. There needs to something. I want to be able to fight on that thin bridge in an intense fight. I want to try to throw each other off! But I don't want the game to revolve around it.

Think of how many GB's are successful in a given fight, whether from a parry, one that comes from GBing while the opponent goes for a heavy, or just a straight GB. At that very first successful GB in a given fight in many areas on these maps, a match will end. Add in there the fact that GB counter pushes people off, shoves push people off, other abilities push people off, and even normal weapon swings push people off.

Currently, much of the player base simply won't fight in certain areas. You can change that.

Please, give us something we can react to that lets us prevent a fall at that last moment before falling. The same should go for spikes.

TLDR: Let me press the GB button or something to prevent a fall as I'm in the process of falling off of a ledge or into spikes.

are you stupid enough not to know there have light attack :D

buhahh125
05-01-2017, 04:14 PM
I wish these threads would just stop. There are ledges.....get over it. Everyone knows they are there and everyone can use it within their strategy during the fight. People act as if there are no environmental advantages in any kind of fight. For crying out loud if you go outside and fist fight someone in your front yard there would be something outside that can be used to the advantage of one. I can not understand why the whining continues about this. Nothing is fair in life....work hard and get what you want. Just my thoughts. Best of luck on your quest to get rid of ledges. :confused:

wethebishop
05-01-2017, 05:32 PM
are you stupid enough not to know there have light attack

The existence of light attacks doesn't solve this problem. If you just tried to light spam me, I would parry you and throw you off of the ledge.


I wish these threads would just stop. There are ledges.....get over it. Everyone knows they are there and everyone can use it within their strategy during the fight. People act as if there are no environmental advantages in any kind of fight. For crying out loud if you go outside and fist fight someone in your front yard there would be something outside that can be used to the advantage of one. I can not understand why the whining continues about this. Nothing is fair in life....work hard and get what you want. Just my thoughts. Best of luck on your quest to get rid of ledges.


Actually, it is fair; we can both throw each other off of the ledges. What's being disputed is whether or not this is good game design. Even the devs acknowledge that this won't work with ranked mode in its current state. Results on the ladder would be less consistent with this aspect because the lesser skilled might find themselves winning against the more skilled more often. My biggest issue with it is that the matches end too quickly in the presence of environmental hazards. I want the game to be more popular. It can't be more popular in its current state.

No one wants to get rid of ledges. We want to change the way ledges work. Please read well.

razabak10mm
05-01-2017, 05:53 PM
Well shuko has uninterruptable stance so dont know whyd you try to charge before breaking it, all it does then is remove it and leave you wide open, and fighting a shuk on a small bridge is just a bad choice, a bad judgement. Its a learning curve, i had to learn it too. Let em stand on the bridge, dont approach unless 2+ approaching from different sides, that way if 1 gets knocked off he now has to fight the other. Strategy, gotta use it sometimes.

Mmmk, so git gud? Got it, thanks for the insight. 🙄

I'm sorry you missed it, but that was sort of the point of my post.

I was just relaying a funny story at my own expense on why they need to keep ledges. It makes the game better. I wasn't exactly looking for an essay on the tactical disadvantages of facing Big Shug on a bridge.

S8Canadian
05-01-2017, 06:57 PM
I believe we're looking at ledges and other environmental aspects and how they affect gameplay (especially as we start thinking about ranked) - we do think environmental hazards add an extra dimension to gameplay, but we also don't want it to be abused and exploited. We don't have any updates on this currently, but I just wanted to let you know that it is something we are aware of and thinking about.

while reducing some of the pits and holes, it would be nice to see some more innovation like that bridge map and the switch trap. Nothing feels better then actually hitting someone with that trap :)

buhahh125
05-01-2017, 09:11 PM
The existence of light attacks doesn't solve this problem. If you just tried to light spam me, I would parry you and throw you off of the ledge.



Actually, it is fair; we can both throw each other off of the ledges. What's being disputed is whether or not this is good game design. Even the devs acknowledge that this won't work with ranked mode in its current state. Results on the ladder would be less consistent with this aspect because the lesser skilled might find themselves winning against the more skilled more often. My biggest issue with it is that the matches end too quickly in the presence of environmental hazards. I want the game to be more popular. It can't be more popular in its current state.

No one wants to get rid of ledges. We want to change the way ledges work. Please read well.

LoL, Let me get this straight, you say the guy is more skilled but died to the less skilled fighter by getting thrown off?...LAWL good thing he has more skill. :rolleyes: Maybe it will help him next time he is by a ledge with the less skilled fighter. OR maybe I just didn't read well enough and the words mean something entirely different.

Pope138
05-01-2017, 10:51 PM
I think they're fine the way they are. Anytime I'm killed via environment I instantly recognize it as my mistake. Yes, even against warlords.

buhahh125
05-01-2017, 11:10 PM
I think they're fine the way they are. Anytime I'm killed via environment I instantly recognize it as my mistake. Yes, even against warlords.

Well said.

CandleInTheDark
05-01-2017, 11:19 PM
Well shuko has uninterruptable stance so dont know whyd you try to charge before breaking it, all it does then is remove it and leave you wide open, and fighting a shuk on a small bridge is just a bad choice, a bad judgement. Its a learning curve, i had to learn it too. Let em stand on the bridge, dont approach unless 2+ approaching from different sides, that way if 1 gets knocked off he now has to fight the other. Strategy, gotta use it sometimes.

Or, if it is the one I am thinking of (high fort is it? one of the forts) there is a second bridge three seconds away which you can get to before he goes from halfway down the other bridge to cut you off.

razabak10mm
05-01-2017, 11:30 PM
Yup, high fort. Pretty sure that's the one. I couldn't think of the name before.

Part of me hopes he's still standing there guarding his bridge...

Dude_of_Valor
05-02-2017, 03:07 PM
I believe we're looking at ledges and other environmental aspects and how they affect gameplay (especially as we start thinking about ranked) - we do think environmental hazards add an extra dimension to gameplay, but we also don't want it to be abused and exploited. We don't have any updates on this currently, but I just wanted to let you know that it is something we are aware of and thinking about.

I would say it is hard to exploit ledge throwing and even harder to abuse it. Thing is it is quite telegraphed when you enter a ledge throwing contest.

I personally find most 1v1 duels are resolved without ledge throwing etc. I do however think new maps need to always have an out to a ledge throw (looking at you the bridge of doom!)