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View Full Version : Devs testing a nerf of the parry



Tyrjo
04-30-2017, 09:29 AM
The devs are testing ways how to nerf the parry to counter the turtle meta on high level play. No details was really given on exactly how they are testing it.

Time: 48:50


https://youtu.be/vD55uCex4Sk?t=2982

My gut reaction is that there has to be another way of opening turtles up than changing how you can punish someone after a parry. I just hope they are very very careful when they are testing a change of a core element skill check. For me, the parry is something I enjoy using together with a punish when facing people that are spamming attacks. Spamming of attacks is also one of the most common complaints on mid range and lower levels of skill. It is very hard to find a middle ground here I guess.

CoyoteXStarrk
04-30-2017, 09:35 AM
100-% needed.


Parry is far too OP right now. Combos are essentially uselss against anyone who knows how to play.

Knight_Raime
04-30-2017, 09:59 AM
If I had to guess they are going to remove guarenteed GB's off of parries. and make it so what you get off of a parry is dependent on what you parry.
The only other way they can really nerf parries is either making the window tighter or changing feint timings. both of which might be nice. but it would really just be a stop gap.
They should also really make parries take stamina. like. seriously.

vgrimr_J
04-30-2017, 10:34 AM
oh you poor children you are going into terrible path that has no point of return.

CoyoteXStarrk
04-30-2017, 10:52 AM
oh you poor children you are going into terrible path that has no point of return.

I'm sorry your precious Defensive Meta is getting shoved out the door :(

vgrimr_J
04-30-2017, 11:13 AM
nah i play on xbox i dont see much turtles here im only worried about that never ending nerfs that are on our way because ppl will never stop crying. my only hope is that devs dont listen at those little jimmys crying

kweassa1917
04-30-2017, 11:21 AM
Interesting, from what they've said, seems like a stamina cost to dodge is definitely coming...

Probably will hit assassin the hardest.

CitizenPuddi
04-30-2017, 11:25 AM
nah i play on xbox i dont see much turtles here im only worried about that never ending nerfs that are on our way because ppl will never stop crying. my only hope is that devs dont listen at those little jimmys crying

are you like.... what, pre-programmed to call bringing up legitimate gameplay issues "crying"?

is there a word filter in your head?

do you think it somehow adds weight to the total non-points you raise?

i dont understand it.

Tyrjo
04-30-2017, 11:44 AM
If I had to guess they are going to remove guarenteed GB's off of parries. and make it so what you get off of a parry is dependent on what you parry.
The only other way they can really nerf parries is either making the window tighter or changing feint timings. both of which might be nice. but it would really just be a stop gap.
They should also really make parries take stamina. like. seriously.

I guess they could make the parry + GB counterable in the same way a normal GB is counterable.

I'm just worried they will make a change that is great for making high level play more fun, and in the same time make other skill ranges (where the majority of the player base is) less fun.

CitizenPuddi
04-30-2017, 11:48 AM
I guess they could make the parry + GB counterable in the same way a normal GB is counterable.

I'm just worried they will make a change that is great for making high level play more fun, and in the same time make other skill ranges (where the majority of the player base is) less fun.

that sounds like a pretty solid idea, actually

i personally believe there's too much power loaded into guardbreaks for guardbreaks to be 100% guaranteed under most circumstances

vgrimr_J
04-30-2017, 11:55 AM
are you like.... what, pre-programmed to call bringing up legitimate gameplay issues "crying"?

is there a word filter in your head?

do you think it somehow adds weight to the total non-points you raise?

i dont understand it.

so. after parry gets nerfed what is next in the list people start demanding for a nerf? deflects? superior blocks? dashes? the point here is that ppl will never stop complaining and demand for nerfs i just hope that the devs doesnt take the path of nerfing because soon we will fight with foam sticks. this has happened in many games i have played its a sad truth

CitizenPuddi
04-30-2017, 11:59 AM
so. after parry gets nerfed what is next in the list people start demanding for a nerf? deflects? superior blocks? dashes? the point here is that ppl will never stop complaining and demand for nerfs i just hope that the devs doesnt take the path of nerfing because soon we will fight with foam sticks. this has happened in many games i have played its a sad truth

name a single patch for this game that didnt also include buffs

useless foam sticks dont happen when they sharpen the blade after shortening it

DrExtrem
04-30-2017, 12:08 PM
On PC - maybe.

On console? Maybe not.

CitizenPuddi
04-30-2017, 12:11 PM
On PC - maybe.

On console? Maybe not.

yeh, i really hope at some point they either manage to bump the frame lock up to 60 or fork off and start balancing consoles a bit differently

i haven't played on a console, but playing at 30fps sounds like a bummer. :/

Manlorey
04-30-2017, 12:17 PM
Interesting, from what they've said, seems like a stamina cost to dodge is definitely coming...

Probably will hit assassin the hardest.
Yeah, because dodge is insanely overpowered, and not that pretty much anyone with a brain can just block it. And it's not like the game has bigger issues with op classes like warlords with armored heavies, abilities to use pretty much every map for an insane amount of environmental kills, great CC and the ability of superior blocking and turtleing up, valk spams where it is bugged for assassins when you already can't even dodge the valk sweep, plus the still non/resolved issue of controller dead zones on consoles...

But yeah, let's nerf dodge instead.

Felis_Menari
04-30-2017, 12:29 PM
I'm all for dodge being nerfed while exhausted (the dodge spam by assassins while OoS is ridiculous), but beyond that I don't think further nerfs are necesssry.

DrExtrem
04-30-2017, 12:30 PM
yeh, i really hope at some point they either manage to bump the frame lock up to 60 or fork off and start balancing consoles a bit differently

i haven't played on a console, but playing at 30fps sounds like a bummer. :/

I don't think that stable 60 fps are possible on console and it would only fix a part of the problem. We are still using tv screens and mostly blue tooth controllers. Combined with the controller dead zone from hell, we need console specific balancing and not a half arsed attempt to squeeze 60 fps out of consoles.

If the tales are true, only the Scorpio could pull it off.

Manlorey
04-30-2017, 12:33 PM
I'm all for dodge being nerfed while exhausted (the dodge spam by assassins while OoS is ridiculous), but beyond that I don't think further nerfs are necesssry.
Even thought about, I don't know, block in the direction they dodge? People crying for nerfs over simple game mechanics is what's getting really ridiculous here.

Egotistic_Ez
04-30-2017, 12:42 PM
nah i play on xbox i dont see much turtles here im only worried about that never ending nerfs that are on our way because ppl will never stop crying. my only hope is that devs dont listen at those little jimmys crying

The turtle meta is alive and well on the xbone. At least at the higher tiers of play.


Even thought about, I don't know, block in the direction they dodge? People crying for nerfs over simple game mechanics is what's getting really ridiculous here.

He means after you run an assassin out of stamina they then back dodge away so you can't punish them. It's part of the reason they can just attack spam like scrubs.

CandleInTheDark
04-30-2017, 12:42 PM
valk spams where it is bugged for assassins when you already can't even dodge the valk sweep

My peaceckeeper (rep 5) and berserker (rep 1) disagree with this statement. I've dodged sweep with both of them.

kweassa1917
04-30-2017, 12:44 PM
My peaceckeeper (rep 5) and berserker (rep 1) disagree with this statement. I've dodged sweep with both of them.

Same with my... um... rep0 PK. :p

Kitsune..
04-30-2017, 12:47 PM
I guess they can go for 'light for heavy - heavy for light ' but I don't think that benefit from parrying slow light attacks should be equal to benefit from parrying fast ones.
Also unrewarding parries might lead to constant blocking, which is pretty much enough to spoil attack chains for some heroes (Kensei) and give nice benefits for the others (LB). Thus just nerfing parries won't do much good changes by itself, there should be a complex approach and nerfs/buffs of basic mechanics should address not all heroes in a mass but each one separately.

Manlorey
04-30-2017, 12:58 PM
My peaceckeeper (rep 5) and berserker (rep 1) disagree with this statement. I've dodged sweep with both of them.
Yes, it is doable, but the bug may still occur if the second hit connects, I think. There was a topic regarding that on the forum.

CandleInTheDark
04-30-2017, 01:00 PM
Yes, it is doable, but the bug may still occur if the second hit connects, I think. There was a topic regarding that on the forum.

I've been hit with both lights and still dodged so honestly not sure of this bug.

sssnake154
04-30-2017, 01:10 PM
Poor kensei. If they will remove a guaranteed gb of a parry, he will lose another opportunity to deal damage and go for mix. Duh.

Lumina-US
04-30-2017, 01:16 PM
The turtle meta is alive and well on the xbone. At least at the higher tiers of play.No it's not - except for a couple of Warlords that nearly seem to use their shield as OP headgear, i have yet to see a single player on XBOX ONE who turtles out for most of the match.

XBOX players are by far the most offensive ones, compared to the other two platforms, be it foor good or bad.

Knight_Raime
04-30-2017, 06:20 PM
I've been hit with both lights and still dodged so honestly not sure of this bug.

The bug is when you try to switch your guard to block the second light after eating the first. The attack comes out so quickly your guard switch is actually buffered. so it doesn't happen till afterthe second light hits. and because the guard switch is playing after the hit you can't dodge the sweep. if you just straight up eat both lights and don't try switching guard till after that you can dodge valks sweep every time.

this only happens on console do to our 30 fps.

psyminion
04-30-2017, 07:38 PM
I'm ok with dodge being nerfed.... I guess.

but as a compromise I would like the window for deflect increased slightly so my 30fps and mid-thirtys reaction times aren't so much of a factor in my spammy dodging.

bmason1000
04-30-2017, 08:46 PM
The turtle meta is alive and well on the xbone. At least at the higher tiers of play.



He means after you run an assassin out of stamina they then back dodge away so you can't punish them. It's part of the reason they can just attack spam like scrubs.

Can other classes not back dodge or is their dodge somehow different? I only use one character so I'm genuinely ignorant of the answer. How dp assassins benefit from this differently then others?

Felis_Menari
04-30-2017, 10:08 PM
Even thought about, I don't know, block in the direction they dodge? People crying for nerfs over simple game mechanics is what's getting really ridiculous here.

Care to explain what blocking has to do with dealing with OoS assassin dodge spam? I don't know about you, but I don't tend to see exhausted assassins attacking while spam dodging...ever.

SlashingElbow
04-30-2017, 10:16 PM
oh you poor children you are going into terrible path that has no point of return.

i agree. They are crying about some defensive meta but i have no problem opening any of the characters up. These kids are gonna make this game such an easy dumbed down version most good players will just stop and let the noob kids have this game.. Good job destroying everything in this game! learn how to play please.. Trophy generation at work..

Specialkha
04-30-2017, 10:21 PM
i agree. They are crying about some defensive meta but i have no problem opening any of the characters up. These kids are gonna make this game such an easy dumbed down version most good players will just stop and let the noob kids have this game.. Good job destroying everything in this game! learn how to play please.. Trophy generation at work..

What hero do you play? Can we have some vids then to back up your big talk?

CitizenPuddi
04-30-2017, 10:24 PM
What hero do you play? Can we have some vids then to back up your big talk?

https://fhtracker.com/profile/xbox/SlashingElbow

SlashingElbow
04-30-2017, 10:25 PM
What hero do you play? Can we have some vids then to back up your big talk?

i have rep 7 raider 6 berserker warlord at 7 i believe and my warden is only rep 2.
'im not saying im a pro gamer at all but i really dont see the problem with the crying about some defensive meta. There is so many ways to upen up players by fainting and dodging and running around them swticthing positions baiting them to enviromental hazards etc. U need to play ryse son of rome or something where u can keep pressing xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

SlashingElbow
04-30-2017, 10:26 PM
https://fhtracker.com/profile/xbox/SlashingElbow

Ill play any crying meta baby in a duel or whatever even though i never play duels. Im more of a 4v4 guy but im 100 % i would beat your *** if you did your defensive meta bs

Oupyz
04-30-2017, 10:27 PM
skilll ratiiing of 14 , kinda at mid-tier , he doesnt really undeerrrstandd the mechanic

he needs to be 18-23 for a better understanding of the game

SlashingElbow
04-30-2017, 10:28 PM
https://fhtracker.com/profile/xbox/SlashingElbow

btw check your own stats and compare them to that site. Its not the same at all. Site needs updating or something

Specialkha
04-30-2017, 10:32 PM
Oh ok, so now, we can ignore what you are saying. Kthxbye.

SlashingElbow
04-30-2017, 10:32 PM
skilll ratiiing of 14 , kinda at mid-tier , he doesnt really undeerrrstandd the mechanic

he needs to be 18-23 for a better understanding of the game

skill rating on that site? Im 24 as far i can see. i almost never play duel

Karma_Ghost
04-30-2017, 10:38 PM
Wouldn't a more dangerous out of stamina state make the defensive meta worse? Severe punish after parrying a couple attacks adds more incentive to just defend.

star_sprinkles
04-30-2017, 11:22 PM
Wouldn't a more dangerous out of stamina state make the defensive meta worse? Severe punish after parrying a couple attacks adds more incentive to just defend.

That's true with the current exhausted state. If running out of stamina ultimately led to being defenseless and being punished, damage would need to refill the stamina bar faster, preventing the the player with stamina from punishing their opponent too much. It would work like a burst of adrenaline as a response to pain.

UbiNoty
04-30-2017, 11:58 PM
Like we said, these all are just ideas we are currently playing around with and nothing is concrete as of yet. When we do have more solid plans in place, we'll update you all then!