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Egotistic_Ez
04-28-2017, 02:12 AM
So I'm watching the warrior's den from the 27th and they keep going on about how it was a nail biting finish and trash like that, then they themselves point out how most people don't give a damn and just auto-place assets (obviously not worded like that, lol). Then they continue on with the usual FW rhetoric that no one who plays the game actually believes.

But the thing that irked me the most was when Eric was all like "now's a great time to try a new character because it's out of season". Ubi, guys, no one gives a **** about what character they're playing in regards to the faction war. If players want to try someone new they will, they aren't going to consider your joke of a mini game. The ONLY time anyone will care about every game is when you release ranked. You trying to pass this of as pseudo competitive is embarrassing.

Honestly, I get that the FW is the baby of a few of your devs, but accept that it's failed and come up with something better. Continuing to defend such a terrible system is only hurting the game.

Mia.Nora
04-28-2017, 02:30 AM
I wish they removed the stupid animations from main menu. It is an extra waste of time for watching weapons drop on a map that I dont give a s*t about.

Tundra 793
04-28-2017, 02:44 AM
Honestly, I get that the FW is the baby of a few of your devs, but accept that it's failed and come up with something better. Continuing to defend such a terrible system is only hurting the game.

The game's sold over 700,000 copies last I heard. Failed probably isn't the right word.

I understand where you're coming from though, I imagine many of us do.

But this "Faction War's pointless, don't bother, nothing matters" attitude bums me out far more than losing a round, or getting disconnected 11 times in a row ever could.

Why not try being more constructive in your critique?

For example; What would make the Faction War more enjoyable and engaging for you specifically?

CoyoteXStarrk
04-28-2017, 02:50 AM
So I'm watching the warrior's den from the 27th and they keep going on about how it was a nail biting finish and trash like that, then they themselves point out how most people don't give a damn and just auto-place assets (obviously not worded like that, lol). Then they continue on with the usual FW rhetoric that no one who plays the game actually believes.

But the thing that irked me the most was when Eric was all like "now's a great time to try a new character because it's out of season". Ubi, guys, no one gives a **** about what character they're playing in regards to the faction war. If players want to try someone new they will, they aren't going to consider your joke of a mini game. The ONLY time anyone will care about every game is when you release ranked. You trying to pass this of as pseudo competitive is embarrassing.

Honestly, I get that the FW is the baby of a few of your devs, but accept that it's failed and come up with something better. Continuing to defend such a terrible system is only hurting the game.


I wish they removed the stupid animations from main menu. It is an extra waste of time for watching weapons drop on a map that I dont give a s*t about.

You guys sound like you are fun at parties lol


They are doing something that hasn't been done in any other game before. Of course there is gonna be issues. They have already said that they are gonna take everything they learned from this season and apply that knowledge for season two to make it better.


Think about it from a common sense standpoint. Which is more likely to get messed up?


The system that they already have in place that they gathered data on since launch.


OR


This new not created yet imaginary thing you want them to replace the current system with.

bmason1000
04-28-2017, 03:31 AM
Its what? 15 seconds, tops? That doesn't seem like such a hassle for us to endure so people who do enjoy the faction war can.

Mia.Nora
04-28-2017, 03:39 AM
This new not created yet imaginary thing you want them to replace the current system with.

It is not new or anything, it has been around for 10 years when those browser cookie cutter games first came out copying travian. 3 factions' players compete in a faceless anonymous battle where individual contribution is extremely small to make a change, where winning is just a matter of luck by being on correct faction. I ve seen it done and not actually be cared at all in 4-5 browser games so far.


Its what? 15 seconds, tops? That doesn't seem like such a hassle for us to endure so people who do enjoy the faction war can.
Why can't it be moved to a separate menu that is not main menu? Let me access main menu without the hassle and allow people who enjoy it (assuming there are people who care about where those weapon land on map) to see it on the separate Faction War menu.

bmason1000
04-28-2017, 03:40 AM
You guys sound like you are fun at parties lol


They are doing something that hasn't been done in any other game before. Of course there is gonna be issues. They have already said that they are gonna take everything they learned from this season and apply that knowledge for season two to make it better.


Think about it from a common sense standpoint. Which is more likely to get messed up?


The system that they already have in place that they gathered data on since launch.


OR


This new not created yet imaginary thing you want them to replace the current system with.

Yeah I'm excited to see where they can take it. Season 1 it was just kind of there, i participated, manually deployed 9/10 rounds, but it didn't feel too...real? I guess? I don't know how to put this thought in to words. However! As a concept, not only is it totally fresh and new but the potential is incredible. There has to be a way it can be developed and used to really unify the faction's communities and feel like we're all actually a part of something bigger. I'm very excited to see where it goes from here.

Egotistic_Ez
04-28-2017, 03:51 AM
I wish they removed the stupid animations from main menu. It is an extra waste of time for watching weapons drop on a map that I dont give a s*t about.

Yeah, second that, lol.


The game's sold over 700,000 copies last I heard. Failed probably isn't the right word.

Apologies if I wasn't clear, I meant the faction war has failed, not the game. No one I know has any interest in it at all, except for a mild annoyance if they didn't get the ornaments.


But this "Faction War's pointless, don't bother, nothing matters" attitude bums me out far more than losing a round, or getting disconnected 11 times in a row ever could.

Why not try being more constructive in your critique?

For example; What would make the Faction War more enjoyable and engaging for you specifically?

For the faction war to be interesting for anyone it needs to make them feel like they have an actual effect on it. Yes, I know technically I do affect the the number of assets so I affect who wins but that's academic, there's no actual feeling of contribution.

My off the cuff suggestion would be to pick a zone (the areas you currently deploy assets to) before a match. Your win or loss pushes that zone either forward or back, and when the zone hits a certain number you take it. No waiting for turns, you are actually fighting in a zone and you see the rewards as your team pushes forward into enemy territory. On the back end though it's essentially the same. Win = x points. It just updates at the cap, rather than every 6 hours. So you could literally implement the change in a day or two (two weeks for consoles).

There would also be actual tactics in what zones to take that way too. Since you essentially choose the route to the enemy base.


They are doing something that hasn't been done in any other game before. Of course there is gonna be issues. They have already said that they are gonna take everything they learned from this season and apply that knowledge for season two to make it better.

That isn't remotely true. There are quite a few games in the past with similar systems. They don't usually have a map, but that's the only difference. And while I appreciate them trying to improve the game, a lot of these issues were brought up in beta, so that earns them nothing.

The_B0G_
04-28-2017, 03:52 AM
You guys sound like you are fun at parties lol


They are doing something that hasn't been done in any other game before. Of course there is gonna be issues. They have already said that they are gonna take everything they learned from this season and apply that knowledge for season two to make it better.


Think about it from a common sense standpoint. Which is more likely to get messed up?


The system that they already have in place that they gathered data on since launch.


OR


This new not created yet imaginary thing you want them to replace the current system with.

I just skimmed through it to get to the stuff about FW with the pink hair chick so I may of missed something but all of the suggestions that were given to them about improving FW they, well they didn't ignore because I'm sure they read it, but they seem to think it's working fine as it is, they said nothing about changing it at all, basically just gave a bunch of stats like it should explain everything. They say Viking had the best players, Samurai had the most, Knights had barely more players than Vikings but played the most matches and deployed the most out of all three, having deployed the most times and not winning one round just seem broken to me.

I really hope they fix FW some how, or at least try, as of now it seems they're content with the way it works, having the last round the only round that matters seems bulls*** too. basically in those 6 hours if you're at work or asleep you don't get to help out at all even if you are a top player on your faction. It just doesn't seem like a good setup to me. Territories shouldn't be won and lost so easily either in my opinion.

CandleInTheDark
04-28-2017, 04:26 AM
I just skimmed through it to get to the stuff about FW with the pink hair chick so I may of missed something but all of the suggestions that were given to them about improving FW they, well they didn't ignore because I'm sure they read it, but they seem to think it's working fine as it is, they said nothing about changing it at all, basically just gave a bunch of stats like it should explain everything. They say Viking had the best players, Samurai had the most, Knights had barely more players than Vikings but played the most matches and deployed the most out of all three, having deployed the most times and not winning one round just seem broken to me.

I really hope they fix FW some how, or at least try, as of now it seems they're content with the way it works, having the last round the only round that matters seems bulls*** too. basically in those 6 hours if you're at work or asleep you don't get to help out at all even if you are a top player on your faction. It just doesn't seem like a good setup to me. Territories shouldn't be won and lost so easily either in my opinion.

Is it really the only round that matters though? The number of fronts you are working on and the number of territories you are able to capture follow on from the previous update (assuming you mean that to round, if the Samurai had won fourth round, last would not have mattered). I do think the rotation needs to be fairer though knights were very much in it until the end the last one, and it does suck when you are at work or asleep, but of you can only affect five territories and you can't get into the lead off that, that's based on what has come before.

The_B0G_
04-28-2017, 04:41 AM
Even if it is the last two turns, doesn't the rest of the entire round seem kind of pointless? Especially how losing factions get 5% boosts to start some turns after being pushed back, if that happens right after a peak for one of the other factions that can be hard to overcome in 2 turns, especially when most of the faction has gotten off. I just think the entire round should matter, every turn, it just seems the harder you push, the harder you get pushed back eventually because of the boosts others get at the start of turns, then by the time a boost runs out, it can be that same factions player peak, so they get an even bigger push in and can take one or two of those 5% bonus territories from the other faction.

The way it is now just seems too much up to chance and luck rather than strategy or skill, it's all about getting lucky and having your rebound come just as the round is ending doesn't it? Every faction pulls ahead for a moment, some just stay ahead a little longer than others due to round timing and peak hours lining up to make the perfect storm of dominance.

CandleInTheDark
04-28-2017, 04:46 AM
This and one other round were decided by asset allocation which is over the round as a whole though yes I do get your point that the way it is with territories needs looking at, not claiming it is in the best strate it could be by any means.

Frappenstain
04-28-2017, 10:03 AM
I wish they removed the stupid animations from main menu. It is an extra waste of time for watching weapons drop on a map that I dont give a s*t about.

Players like you destroys the community. Even this innocent ramp explains majority of players. You can't even tolerate a simple eyecandy animation. Give a break, try to enjoy game. your comment shows that, you bored but can't stop to play... You just playing it just because to play it.

Dhaleks
04-28-2017, 10:21 AM
I never could bring myself to care about FW...
The team composition isn't influenced by factions - in fact you can end up playing against your faction without realising (ex . I'm a viking playing with 3 knights, the opposite team is all vikings : what happens if mine wins?). Minions apparence too; the system doesn't care if I'm a viking and I'll just have to fight along random minions. It doesn't really help oneself to immerse or care about FW.

Gray360UK
04-28-2017, 11:51 AM
Since it was made clear in the Warriors Den livestream yesterday that the Knights deployed assets most often (played the most games) and manually deployed more than the Samurai ... yet one not a single round, I am finding it harder to care than ever. The lady on the livestream concluded that the Knights are the most dedicated players ... well fat lot of good that did us!

MasterChiefPON
04-28-2017, 01:25 PM
Since it was made clear in the Warriors Den livestream yesterday that the Knights deployed assets most often (played the most games) and manually deployed more than the Samurai ... yet one not a single round, I am finding it harder to care than ever. The lady on the livestream concluded that the Knights are the most dedicated players ... well fat lot of good that did us!

Are you sure? I watched the stream too and I remember she said Vikings were the ones who put more effort in deploying their war assets (so Erick was like: see! it matters) and that they were the least numerous faction too.

Gray360UK
04-28-2017, 01:45 PM
Are you sure? I watched the stream too and I remember she said Vikings were the ones who put more effort in deploying their war assets (so Erick was like: see! it matters) and that they were the least numerous faction too.

Positive.

She said the Vikings deployed the most war assets manually and they gained more assets per match, so they did the best / captured the most zones, killed the most, per game, on average ... not in my games ;)

The knights however, deployed the most times. Not necessarily manually. This doesn't mean anything for how many war assets they deployed, just how many times. That doesn't mean they deployed a lot of assets, or manually, or in the right places. 100 Duels, for example, gets you very few war assets, but would mean 100 deployments, even if auto ones. The Vikings on the other hand, might have deployed less times, 50 Dominions is only 50 deployments, compared to 100 from the Knights (just an example) but 50 Dominions is a lot more assets, especially if as already stated, the Vikings on average earn more assets per game than the other factions.

This is why Erick said it matters, manual deployment matters, and earning more assets per match matters, that is what he was referring to.

The lady said the Knights were the most dedicated to the faction war, because they played the most games and deployed the most number of times. Clearly this did nothing to help them, as they either earned too little per game, so more games didn't help, too many Duels maybe, or too few assets earned per game in other modes. 100 games (Knights) where you earn 100 assets is going to be beaten by 80 games (Vikings) where you earn 200 assets. 100 deployments is the most deployments (Knights) but the Vikings win despite only 80 deployments because they earned more assets and had more manual deploys in the right places.

Knights did manually deploy more than the Samurai, but again, having lost every single round, this suggests than when Knights manually deploy, they don't do it in the right places against the right enemies, or they don't do it in territories where they get the +20% front bonus.

TL;DR Knights fought the most, but sucked when it came to earning war assets and putting them in the right places.

Egotistic_Ez
04-28-2017, 01:47 PM
Are you sure? I watched the stream too and I remember she said Vikings were the ones who put more effort in deploying their war assets (so Erick was like: see! it matters) and that they were the least numerous faction too.

"Vikings deploy manually more often, 47% of the time"

"Knights actually deploy more often."

Those are the exact quotes. Eric's childish jab at the chat, something he does frequently, was after the viking comment.

To me that says knights finish more games overall, but because the vikings have the lowest population and deploy manually (knights care about the ACTUAL game, not the mini game garbage) they deployed more total assets, hence the win.

Edit - And I was sniped while looking up the quotes, lol.

MasterChiefPON
04-28-2017, 01:50 PM
Positive.

She said the Vikings deployed the most war assets manually and they gained more assets per match, so they did the best / captured the most zones, killed the most, per game, on average ... not in my games ;)

The knights however, deployed the most times. Not necessarily manually. This doesn't mean anything for how many war assets they deployed, just how many times. That doesn't mean they deployed a lot of assets, or manually, or in the right places. 100 Duels, for example, gets you very few war assets, but would mean 100 deployments, even if auto ones. The Vikings on the other hand, might have deployed less times, 50 Dominions is only 50 deployments, compared to 100 from the Knights (just an example) but 50 Dominions is a lot more assets, especially if as already stated, the Vikings on average earn more assets per game than the other factions.

This is why Erick said it matters, manual deployment matters, and earning more assets per match matters, that is what he was referring to.

The lady said the Knights were the most dedicated to the faction war, because they played the most games and deployed the most number of times. Clearly this did nothing to help them, as they either earned to little per game, so more games didn't help, too many Duels maybe, or they auto deployed, or deployed in the wrong places. So in the end, their dedication was for nothing.

Knights did manually deploy more than the Samurai, but again, having lost every single round, this suggests than when Knights manually deploy, they don't do it in the right places against the right enemies, or they don't do it in territories where they get the +20% front bonus.

TL;DR Knights fought the most, but sucked when it came to earning war assets and putting them in the right places.

Oh, I get it now, thanks :)

CandleInTheDark
04-28-2017, 01:56 PM
Yeah I did a writeup of the Den, editing as it went by and I wrote vikings deployed more then it was all...wait a minute, now they say the knights did so that confused me initially.

Two things I would like to see is getting grouped more often with your own faction and some way on the map or in a faction specific message board visible on all platforms as much as people on console would have to use an onscreen keyboard of indicating to members of your faction what sort of area you intend to push. If not a message board which I think would be the better option, maybe a screen for each of the fronts, so you can see by percentage votes where the general consensus is. I mean personally I always try to put them in territories where it is close, but there are some places strategically more viable (where they isolate a territory) and one of those might be 5-10% down, so any kind of co-ordination might make people feel more involved.

tldr: People feel their contribution means little and manually deploying most isn't a guarantee of results (in my opinion) because there is no co-ordination.

Dizzy4213
04-28-2017, 02:04 PM
I think it's pretty safe to say nobody gives a damn about it. I know I sure don't. If I remember correctly, when I started the game I don't think the Faction War was even explained.

Almost fell asleep during the stream every time the Faction War was brought up

Judging from how the recent turns have been, it's safe to say a large majority of players jumped ship to the Vikings. Since the war ended I don't think I have seen them drop below 30. Meanwhile the Knights and Samurai are lucky to get above 10.

CandleInTheDark
04-28-2017, 02:07 PM
I think it's pretty safe to say nobody gives a damn about. I know I sure don't. If I remember correctly, when I started the game I don't think the Faction War was even explained.

Almost fell asleep during the stream every time the Faction War was brought up

Judging from how the recent turns have been, it's safe to say a large majority of players jumped ship to the Vikings. Since the war ended I don't think I have seen them drop below 30. Meanwhile the Knights and Samurai are lucky to get above 10.

If you'd have paid more attention you would know that a, vikings had the smallest player base and b, it doesn't matter anyway because of a balancing algorithm,

Also, you speak for no one but yourself so it is not safe to assume anything.

The_B0G_
04-28-2017, 02:15 PM
If you'd have paid more attention you would know that a, vikings had the smallest player base and b, it doesn't matter anyway because of a balancing algorithm,

Also, you speak for no one but yourself so it is not safe to assume anything.

I think what hes trying to say is a large majority of players switched to vikings AFTER they won.

But you're right about the other part, skill of the players is what matters most when winning rounds, not numbers, that being said the vikings have been wrecking since the end of the war; hopefully it's not because a bunch more good players flocking to the vikings.

Dizzy4213
04-28-2017, 02:26 PM
If you'd have paid more attention you would know that a, vikings had the smallest player base and b, it doesn't matter anyway because of a balancing algorithm,

Also, you speak for no one but yourself so it is not safe to assume anything.


I know that, but at the end of the day, it's Ubisoft we're talking about. I know I'm not the only one who is skeptical about the balancing algorithm.

Captain-Courage
04-28-2017, 02:34 PM
I never could bring myself to care about FW...
The team composition isn't influenced by factions - in fact you can end up playing against your faction without realising (ex . I'm a viking playing with 3 knights, the opposite team is all vikings : what happens if mine wins?).

That alone shows that either :

- Faction Wars is indeed an afterthough, a band aid to help with player retention and communication in order to make players' interest last as much as they can stretch it, by creating emulation and a false sense of persistency and belonging, trying to make you believe that you are part of something bigger to have you more involved than needed, that it actually matters to have a full experience of what the game is supposed to be (when in fact it's just a lobby based arena game and nothing more), all of this with minimum ressources.

or

- Some devs and designers actually spent time and ressources on this feature and genuinely believed that what they did was original or good.
Regarding the result, and be it their "baby" or not, sorry to say that the are simply bad at their job, incompetent. I actually hope that they didn't spent too much ressources on that, otherwise it would be worse than I thought.
Sorry for sounding rude.

bmason1000
04-28-2017, 04:10 PM
I really think its going to turn in to something bigger. I don't know how, but i suspect by the time sesson 3 hits its going to really be something we as players actively participate in.

Captain-Courage
04-28-2017, 04:12 PM
I really think its going to turn in to something bigger. I don't know how, but i suspect by the time sesson 3 hits its going to really be something we as players actively participate in.

If there are still players left ...

Egotistic_Ez
04-28-2017, 04:20 PM
I really think its going to turn in to something bigger. I don't know how, but i suspect by the time sesson 3 hits its going to really be something we as players actively participate in.

Season 3? Holy crap, someone's optimistic.

Pope138
04-28-2017, 04:23 PM
I like FW. A lot.
I don't follow it, I only check it out when I'm actually playing, and I'd never start a game just to deploy assets to help my faction. For me it's just this cool thing going on in the background. I think it's neat. Hopefully they can find a way to get more people into it without changing it too much.

bmason1000
04-28-2017, 05:05 PM
I really think its going to turn in to something bigger. I don't know how, but i suspect by the time sesson 3 hits its going to really be something we as players actively participate in.


If there are still players left ...

Haha that is of course 100% a concern. Hopefully season 2 has enough impact, balance and content wise, to keep people around and get new players. I really love this game and i really want it to do well.

Thiag0BR
04-28-2017, 05:08 PM
I like the faction war, and it something you do between rounds.

JayyRupp
04-29-2017, 05:29 AM
You guys sound like you are fun at parties lol


They are doing something that hasn't been done in any other game before. Of course there is gonna be issues. They have already said that they are gonna take everything they learned from this season and apply that knowledge for season two to make it better.


Think about it from a common sense standpoint. Which is more likely to get messed up?


The system that they already have in place that they gathered data on since launch.


OR


This new not created yet imaginary thing you want them to replace the current system with.

LOL never been done in a game before? Mortal Kombat X & U. Marvel vs. Capcom 3 had faction wars WAY before For Honor.. FFS they're even called "Faction Wars" in Mortal Kombat X.. It's not an original idea. At least the factions in MK X served a purpose..

Hiero_Glyph
04-29-2017, 05:39 AM
They are doing something that hasn't been done in any other game before. Of course there is gonna be issues. They have already said that they are gonna take everything they learned from this season and apply that knowledge for season two to make it better.


Think about it from a common sense standpoint. Which is more likely to get messed up?


The system that they already have in place that they gathered data on since launch.

Faction War isn't original though. Google Chromehounds Neroimus War if you want to see how a good 3 faction meta-game looked. Note that Chromehounds released in 2006 so it was only 11 years ahead of For Honor.

Gray360UK
04-29-2017, 10:41 AM
Nobody heard of Dark Age of Camelot? ;)

Mia.Nora
04-29-2017, 12:32 PM
I first saw it on a browser game called Skylancers (I guess too much time passed) like 10 years ago.

Imperials, Alliance and Renegade factions where each player chooses a faction on account creation (like this game)

Your choice does not effect your units, you can build buildings and units from all types regardless of faction (like this game)

Every players personal stuff adds to a Moon Tower, a tower to reach moon first. The faction that completes it first has 48 hours of allowance to invade Moon for moonstones (hard as **** battles). The end result of that faction war was pretty inline with rest of game and very valuable and every faction actually wanted to get it. (Unlike this game)

Later on I saw faction wars many times in other games, mostly browser travian cookie cutters; and of course Mortal Kombat.



What I dont like about it here is that, it replaces main menu. Let me access main menu as main menu, and let Faction War be accessed by its own menu. Dont force me to watch it everytime. It is literally just waste of time, since it is not even interactive but a pointless animation.

Gray360UK
04-29-2017, 12:59 PM
Dark Age of Camelot to elaborate on my earlier post, was released in 2001, so 16 years ago.

It was a 3 faction MMO, a very popular one at that with hundreds of thousands of players. The Factions were Hibernia (Elf / Nature), Midgard (Viking / Barbarian) and Albion (Knights). You picked a faction and played the characters of that faction. You were a Hibbie, a Mid or an Alb. You had a very strong sense of belonging to your faction and fighting for it against the others.

There were vast open world areas full of keeps owned by each faction and you could launch assaults on those keeps to swing the course of the 3 faction war. These keep assaults could be huge, with hundreds of players on each side, battering rams deployed to knock down keep gates, trebuchets, catapults and so on. The war for keeps and lands bled over into normal gameplay, as the leading faction would get stat boosts and exp boosts. "Alarm clock raids" were a popular albeit sneaky tactic, where hundreds of members of a faction would log out near an enemy keep, then all log in again at 5am when the defenders were asleep, an army literally materialising out of thin air in seconds, conquering the enemy keep before the alarm could be sounded or a defence mounted.

Frogive me, reminiscing, haha ;)

But yeah, it's been done before :)

Talynsun
04-29-2017, 01:15 PM
I like the idea of the faction war but as others have said, it isn't something I feel a part of or that I influence it to any great extent. It feels like a lottery of sorts.

Maybe if the rewards or bonuses were attributed to characters of that faction then maybe it would help.


Knight characters fighting/playing for the knight faction get a bonus to deployment.
Rewards are faction character exclusive.


Or the faction war is an actual game mode so you only get knights vs samurai in matchups and for the interesting territories were you get all three you could have a 2v2v2 game mode.

Potatoserver825
04-30-2017, 09:21 PM
I don't really care for faction war but I still manually deployed everytime I could. I'm just annoyed that I missed out on ornaments because of it.

UbiNoty
05-01-2017, 12:19 AM
I believe what they meant was that, if you wanted to switch factions - that now (during the off-season) would be the time to do it since you don't risk losing anything. (What heroes you play have no impact on the faction war after all).

We do realize that there are some things we'll need to reassess with the faction war system and its mechanics, and will be using this time during the off season to take a closer look at and evaluate what improvements we may want to make.
We've passed along numerous good suggestions from the community regarding the FW over to the team, and we'll definitely be looking for ways to make FW feel more exciting and make players more invested in their faction.