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The190Flyer
08-18-2004, 08:58 AM
Hi everybody, I was wonderin what is your best manuver(s) to evade from a La geek in a 190 for all of you Butcher Bird fans like me. Also what type do you like to fly? My fav is the 1944 Dora and the A-5 1943 version.

The190Flyer
08-18-2004, 08:58 AM
Hi everybody, I was wonderin what is your best manuver(s) to evade from a La geek in a 190 for all of you Butcher Bird fans like me. Also what type do you like to fly? My fav is the 1944 Dora and the A-5 1943 version.

Red_Storm
08-18-2004, 09:03 AM
The La's used to be extremely hard to beat, but all you have to do now is spiral climb away from them. I'm a full time Dora driver so I'm not sure if it works in the Antons, but all you have to do is keep a loose right-hand turn and spiral up. You'll rocket away from them. After a minute or two they'll give up, giving you a nice angle to do a hard flip to the left and dive on them. Repeat until they're crippled or going down.

EDIT: If you need any more advice just ask. I fly the late FW-190D-9 (the '45 version). http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

EDIT2: When climbing away, engage MW50 (erh√¬∂hte notleistung for your '44 version) and use 100% prop pitch. Have your radiator set on four or six.

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The190Flyer
08-18-2004, 11:05 AM
Thats great Red Storm, 190's are great, when in an uphill climb and you enable MW50 does it overrev your engine or you prob. have no trouble engaging it since your losing power and the engine's getting weaker, thnx fer the post

Red_Storm
08-18-2004, 11:14 AM
No, it won't overrev. Be very careful with 100% pitch though, as what you're doing in essence is destroy your engine. When applying 100% pitch, keep a very close eye on your engine temperature and turn it off again after a few minutes. It'll give you that nice extra boost, but don't use it for too long.

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TgD Thunderbolt56
08-18-2004, 11:30 AM
It also depends on which La you're running from and the AOA (angle of attack) of your climb. Too steep and that La7 will crawl right up your backside and shred you with those three cannons.

The old "getaway" tactic of diving beyond the La's threshold isn't as effective due to the slower acceleration of the FW's now and the increased dive-tolerance of the La's.

As before, stay in the driver's seat. Stay above 3k, keep your airspeed up, use the sun and keep your eyes peeled.

TB


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Kaesebrot.
08-18-2004, 11:38 AM
The best way to avoid getting shot down by a LA in a 190 is to parachute before he comes close http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Red_Storm
08-18-2004, 11:56 AM
Like I said before, if the La-7 (La-5FN, whatever) is at the same altitude as you are, simply spiral climb up at a speed of 280km/h indicated. He won't be able to follow you.

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Maj_Death
08-18-2004, 12:19 PM
Interesting method, I havn't ever used it as it sounds like a good way to fry your engine and looks to be very risky. I suggest a high speed scissors. The La's have sucky high speed handling so you should be able to soundly out roll and then out turn them at speeds above 650km/h. To do this, point the nose down to gain speed, once up to around 700km/h or more, do a sharp horizontal turn, once the La is following, reverse the turn as fast as you can. The La cannot possibly follow this manuever. You will dissappear under his nose and by the time he has reversed his turn you will have had plenty of time to dive away into the clouds or out of sight. Worst case scenario is it just buys you some time.

Edit: this method can also be done in the vertical, just make sure you have tons of altitude. If you have a naive persuer, he may try to follow you and crash or overspeed while doing so.

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Red_Storm
08-18-2004, 01:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maj_Death:
Interesting method, I havn't ever used it as it sounds like a good way to fry your engine and looks to be very risky.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not if you maintain 280 and check engine heat. It's perfectly safe.

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JG7_Rall
08-18-2004, 02:01 PM
Don't worry Red Storm...some people just don't understand how prop pitch works.

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Maj_Death
08-18-2004, 03:37 PM
LOL, right. Pay more attention to who you are responding to before you claim they just don't know how it works. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

Your recommendation just seems needlessly risky to me. A simple high speed scissors works every time against almost anything. There is no need to do a spiral climb at the expense of your engine. Also, you can very easily be shot while spiral climbing. It only works if you are already out of range. If you are in range then the La driver will just punch holes in you while you try to extend away. It is my experience that the Fw's don't fly too well after they get some holes in the wings. The spiral climb is best left to good climbing planes like the Bf-109, doing it in a 190 may work in a pinch but it should be considered a last resort.

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Spelling mistakes left in intentionally to annoy tttiger.

Maj_Death here, I/JG1_Death at HL

I build COOPs and DF maps. If you would like some of them you can get them atmy COOP page (http://www14.brinkster.com/triggerhappy770/default.htm)

I/JG1 Oesau is recruiting axis pilots who prefer to fly maximum realism. We accept both veterans and rookies. We fly in VEF2, VWF and may join other online wars in the future. I am currently the acting CO, if you are interested in joining please PM me here or page me in HL.
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robban75
08-18-2004, 03:46 PM
If you plan on outclimbing the La's make sure you know at which altitudes to do it.

The La-7 is absolutely superior in climb at altitudes from ground and up to 3000m. Between 4000 and 5000m the D-9 holds a slight advantage, but from 6000m to 9000m(!?) the La-7 is superior once more.

http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

Oberleutnant Oskar-Walter Romm thoughts on his aircraft.

"I found the Fw 190D-9 to be greatly superior to those of my opponents. During dogfights at altitudes of between about 10,000 and 24,000ft, usual when meeting the Russians, I found that I could pull the D-9 into a tight turn and still retain my speed advantage. In the descent the Dora-9 picked up speed much more rapidly than the A type; in the dive it could leave the Russian Yak-3 and Yak-9 fighters standing."

LW_lcarp
08-18-2004, 03:55 PM
Its even easier than that just dont go into rooms with LAs or Yaks in them and then its a fun sim again. With the UFOs in there its just a game

"If winning isnt everything why do they keep score"
Vince Lombardi

Hunde_3.JG51
08-18-2004, 03:59 PM
I never use climb under any circumstance to try to escape, but then I fly Antons mainly because I find the Dora's armament a bit anemic.

Against La-5, La-5F, and La-5FN high speed maneuvers work great. If you want to escape just dive (you should always have altitude to spare), then do a reversal after you have built up speed (half-roll, pulling out of the dive in the opposite direction you started) at a critical, specific speed. You will pull out near critical dive limit and it is impossible to follow. His controls are not responsive enough to follow and he will break up if he tries. With the La-7 this can work but it is much harder to pull off because its high speed controls are better than the La-5's. A shallow dive with high speed scissors as Major Death said would likely be your best bet, at least in the Anton as any sustained climb or turn will get you killed quickly in the FW-190A.

I am curious if you can spiral climb the La-7 in the Dora but experience tells me its not a good idea unless you are at higher altitude. Things may have changed however in last patch so I can't say but I may give it a try with squadmate for fun. Man, I love the Dora but it's armament is not very good. At least its not very good to kill opponents without some "latch on to any planes six o'clock bonehead" stealing your kill after you have severley wounded them, only to get shot down seconds later because he blew all of his speed/energy stealing your kill.

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Atomic_Marten
08-18-2004, 07:23 PM
I don't even know if there is a best manoeuvre vs. LA7 in Fw190, I think you if you get yourself in any kind of manoeuvre fight that will burn your energy and left you on low alt you have little chance to win battle. Even if you manage to get yourself in position on his dead 6. You just have to overshoot once, and you're in trouble. You're only chance lies in speed and alt (cumulative these two advantages will be preferable http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif). Once you lost altitude advantage or speed advantage, he have a far better position than you. So,

Fly high http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/93.gif

OldMan____
08-18-2004, 08:01 PM
bet way to avoid them.. is to shoot them in the first pass... never underestimate the efficiency of a lot of bullets on enemys plane‚¬īs flight path! Force negative angles attack (almost head on..) He will think you are too dangerous and will make a maneuver to put itself in a less danegrous approach on you...

That should buy you time to regroup (what!? What are you doing alone in Russian front? )


As last resort you can hit his wing with yours :P
Always remember.. nothing but p51 can maneuver with a 190 above 500 km/h.

If brute force does not solve your problem... you are not using enough!

lbhskier37
08-18-2004, 09:47 PM
What I usually do in a 190 when I am in a tough situation is dive for clouds. If there are clouds around, dive vertical and level just before you reach the clouds, once in the clouds half roll into a split S, but carry it all the way around into a vertical climb. This should bring you up through the clouds hopefully with a view of a confused enemy. If there are not clouds, dives with rolls to different vectors to pull out works good against most enemys. If they stay on your six you have plenty of speed to initiate a high speed scissors which no one will follow if done right.

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The190Flyer
08-19-2004, 07:55 AM
I know that speed and another pilots bullets are a La's pliots worst enemy. In the Dora I can outrun em easily I'll have to try the high speed manuvers and hope they still follow, usually they break off. I tried BnZ on some of em but they climb with me, and I don't get enough altitude on em, Hunde I think your wrong about the armament, it has two machine guns and two cannons, plenty enough for me, any gun is a deadly one if you can get hits with it. Well I guess you can call me a Luftwhiner, but the La's are the only plane I whine about, cause they take no talent what-so-ever to fly!
Robben I can outclimb a La anytime anywhere its not hard. 190's much better.

"Once I saw the P-51's flying over Berlin, I knew the jig was up."-Hermann Goering

robban75
08-19-2004, 08:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The190Flyer:
In the Dora I can outrun em easily <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Beware of the La-7, it's just as fast as the D-9 '45 at the lower altitudes, and it accelerates much faster. The La-7 is faster than the '44 version.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Robben I can outclimb a La anytime anywhere its not hard. 190's much better.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you have more speed than him, sure, but if both have similar speeds, forget it. See below. Climbtimes with full boost and full fuel.

La-7

3000 - start timer
4000 - :50 - (20)
5000 - 1:40 - (20)
6000 - 2:34 - (18.5)
7000 - 3:41 - (15) Overheat warning
8000 - 5:07 - (11.6)
9000 - 6:57 - (9.1) Engine Normal(?)
10000 - 9:30 - (6.5)

D-9 '45

3000 - start timer
4000 - :46 - (21.7)
5000 - 1:35 - (20.4)
6000 - 2:33 - (17.2) Overheat warning
7000 - 3:42 - (14.5)
8000 - 5:12 - (11.1)
9000 - 7:32 - (9.1)

The La-7 has a 27.8m/sec climbrate at SL to 1000m, after that it can maintain 25m/sec to 2000m. The D-9 '45 maxes out at 21.7m/sec at SL, the D-9 '44 is slightly better.


http://members.chello.se/unni/D-9.JPG

Oberleutnant Oskar-Walter Romm thoughts on his aircraft.

"I found the Fw 190D-9 to be greatly superior to those of my opponents. During dogfights at altitudes of between about 10,000 and 24,000ft, usual when meeting the Russians, I found that I could pull the D-9 into a tight turn and still retain my speed advantage. In the descent the Dora-9 picked up speed much more rapidly than the A type; in the dive it could leave the Russian Yak-3 and Yak-9 fighters standing."

Hunde_3.JG51
08-19-2004, 08:23 AM
190flyer, I can get hits with it just fine http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. I'm not saying the armament on the Dora sucks, I'm saying I get tired of using it because if flown prorperly it will still take several passes and I don't like to slow down to finish off a wounded opponent. What happens is I usually make a pass, wound opponent, zoom back up for another dive or two, and at some point while this is going on someone else sees me up high and assumes its ok to finish my opponent off by latching onto him. Now if I nose in I look like the kill stealer and the guy who latched on often gets killed for blowing his speed/energy. I still feel the armament is slightly underpowered, but not enough to be ineffective. I just don't like using it for the reason I mentioned above, with more maneuverable planes you can afford to slow down a bit and finish people off, but not in the FW-190. Still, the performance of the Dora is awesome and I feel almost invincible when flying it.

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Formerly Kyrule2
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JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
08-19-2004, 08:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by The190Flyer:
Hi everybody, I was wonderin what is your best manuver(s) to evade from a La geek in a 190 for all of you Butcher Bird fans like me. Also what type do you like to fly? My fav is the 1944 Dora and the A-5 1943 version.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

start running and praying.

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LStarosta
08-19-2004, 08:38 AM
I'd have to agree with whoever suggested high speed maneuvers.

Get in a shallow dive, gain speed and dupe the La into pursuit. As soon as he gets a guns solution on you (according to your judgment), turn into him and snap back in the opposite direction. If you have a wingman, try to maneuver in such a way so that you can execute a drag and bag maneuver, thus neutralizing the threat.

I'd only spiral climb against certain opponents at certain ranges, but I'd prefer not to risk the maneuver, especially in a 1 on 1 or 1 on 2 engagement, where I am alone.

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VFA-195 Snacky
08-19-2004, 09:13 AM
Ever been in a game and shot someone down in a real plane then they immediately respawn with the LA7? Theres a reason for that. The LA7 will always be the old faithfull of FB.


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[This message was edited by Snacky_195th on Thu August 19 2004 at 08:21 AM.]