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HeinzBar
07-16-2004, 09:40 AM
S!,
For sometime I've heard about the wonder weapon called the p63. I generaly dismissed it as poor pilots using the wrong techniques to down this beast. Last night, while flying on the War Clouds server, Blue encountered a flurry of p63 pilots. The ability of the p63 blew my mind last night. There were 4 LW pilots chasing this one p63 around for at least 5+ minutes. The p63 pilot had one move w/ a couple variations. Looping was the p63's preferred method of attack. It seems that the p63 has an endless supply of NRG when using this technique. Has anyone else noticed this? And how about that climb rate? It must have one of the best zoom climbs in the game? Anyhow, the LW pilots, where in a mixed bag of AC, BFs & FWs. All of us tried our best to catch this guy w/o any success. After the initial encounter, we manage to put some hits on him causing him to smoke. Did that slow him down? The p63 flew the entire time smoking w/o any apparent decrease in performance. When all is said and done, the p63 pilot managed to shoot down 2 LW AC and cripple me before out running the last bf109 chasing him.

After seeing this spectacle last night, I'm inclined to believe what others have been saying about the FM of the p63..BS! The way that plane behaved last night reminded me of the La5FN of the original IL2. We all remember the nightmare the La5FN was and how it's UFO abilities caused so much trouble. Well, the new UFO, from what I saw last night, is called the p63.

I'd love to hear from others about this plane and it's online prowess.

HB

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HeinzBar
07-16-2004, 09:40 AM
S!,
For sometime I've heard about the wonder weapon called the p63. I generaly dismissed it as poor pilots using the wrong techniques to down this beast. Last night, while flying on the War Clouds server, Blue encountered a flurry of p63 pilots. The ability of the p63 blew my mind last night. There were 4 LW pilots chasing this one p63 around for at least 5+ minutes. The p63 pilot had one move w/ a couple variations. Looping was the p63's preferred method of attack. It seems that the p63 has an endless supply of NRG when using this technique. Has anyone else noticed this? And how about that climb rate? It must have one of the best zoom climbs in the game? Anyhow, the LW pilots, where in a mixed bag of AC, BFs & FWs. All of us tried our best to catch this guy w/o any success. After the initial encounter, we manage to put some hits on him causing him to smoke. Did that slow him down? The p63 flew the entire time smoking w/o any apparent decrease in performance. When all is said and done, the p63 pilot managed to shoot down 2 LW AC and cripple me before out running the last bf109 chasing him.

After seeing this spectacle last night, I'm inclined to believe what others have been saying about the FM of the p63..BS! The way that plane behaved last night reminded me of the La5FN of the original IL2. We all remember the nightmare the La5FN was and how it's UFO abilities caused so much trouble. Well, the new UFO, from what I saw last night, is called the p63.

I'd love to hear from others about this plane and it's online prowess.

HB

http://www.jagdverband44.com/JV44Banner400x75.jpg

crazyivan1970
07-16-2004, 09:52 AM
Dang HB... i guess it really got to you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif It is a fast plane indeed... and very manuverable...but i believe problem is not all that, problem is untill you take its wings off, it flies like there is no tomorrow. To me it`s more of DM issue, As far as FM goes, nothing that 109 can`t handle IMO.

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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

HeinzBar
07-16-2004, 10:33 AM
S! Ivan,
I'm sure you're right and it's probably a skilled p63 driver, not to mention my poor flying skills. It was very frustrating to see that thing suck up hits and continue on like nothing happened.

I'd still be interested in seeing some charts on the p63 as I have no data concerning this plane. Heck, all the p39s series is similar to the p63 in regards to DM and FM. The only data I have on the p39s doesn't relate to the p39s I see in FB. Those things are tougher to bring down than an IL2 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BTW, I hope you start up the VFC DF servers again Ivan. We miss joining up w/you the rest of the VFC.

HB

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dadada1
07-16-2004, 10:33 AM
Im' not quiet sure its in the old La 5FN category which was a war winner, but considering it should be no faster than FW 190s Spit 9's and slower than the P47, it's performance is shall we say, good.

crazyivan1970
07-16-2004, 10:44 AM
I was putting it aside untill patch is release HB... but still running COOPs. Tonight perhaps http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif 9-9:30 Eastern US time http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

XyZspineZyX
07-16-2004, 11:05 AM
The P63 isn't alone in this regard. All P39 family derivatives do these endless 'Yeltsin loops', as do Yak9s, Yak3s, Lavochkins, and, alarmingly, P40s. You don't see it so much in the other US iron. Hurries used to do this too, but have been thankfully toned down from their anti-gravity days.

The combination of easy elevator authority (while your 109 is trying to get its nose up out of the bucket of concrete, ol' Yeltsin is happily pulling over the top of his loop onto your tail) and optimistic energy conservation make this happen.

KGr.HH-Sunburst
07-16-2004, 11:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HeinzBar:
S!,
For sometime I've heard about the wonder weapon called the p63. I generaly dismissed it as poor pilots using the wrong techniques to down this beast. Last night, while flying on the War Clouds server, Blue encountered a flurry of p63 pilots. The ability of the p63 blew my mind last night. There were 4 LW pilots chasing this one p63 around for at least 5+ minutes. The p63 pilot had one move w/ a couple variations. Looping was the p63's preferred method of attack. It seems that the p63 has an endless supply of NRG when using this technique. Has anyone else noticed this? And how about that climb rate? It must have one of the best zoom climbs in the game? Anyhow, the LW pilots, where in a mixed bag of AC, BFs & FWs. All of us tried our best to catch this guy w/o any success. After the initial encounter, we manage to put some hits on him causing him to smoke. Did that slow him down? The p63 flew the entire time smoking w/o any apparent decrease in performance. When all is said and done, the p63 pilot managed to shoot down 2 LW AC and cripple me before out running the last bf109 chasing him.

After seeing this spectacle last night, I'm inclined to believe what others have been saying about the FM of the p63..BS! The way that plane behaved last night reminded me of the La5FN of the original IL2. We all remember the nightmare the La5FN was and how it's UFO abilities caused so much trouble. Well, the new UFO, from what I saw last night, is called the p63.

I'd love to hear from others about this plane and it's online prowess.

HB

http://www.jagdverband44.com/JV44Banner400x75.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hear hear im saying simular things in other threads i even suggest it might be better to ban it untill its DM is fixed
the P63 got it all i guess thats why its so queit around this plane nobody wants a good DM for this plane it seems ,i wonder why?

Besides its a top performer with tons of E good acceleration climb top speed and turn ALL are good
and not to forget that massive cannon
but for LW guys its just no fun to fight against it if you put 5+ mk108s in it and see it flying on happely and turning without much more E bleed http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

for now it is a UFO with a good shield

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kostek
07-16-2004, 11:19 AM
I didn't saw any p63 in action, becouse i fly VEF only, and i don't have any there, but reading HeinzBar text i "see p39".
CrazyIvan, pls belive us that p39 family FM is overmodelled, DM is overmodelled too (it can fly with leaking oil all the time, i'm sure about that).
La5 family is almost not overheating, and thanks to that u can't outrun it in 109 on high alt (6km) becouse it can fly a lot on radiator closed. And the final thing: WHY DID U MODELLED PROPELLER PITCH IN ALLIED PLANES IF IT DOESN'T WORK. I mean, all VVS gives 100% prop, 100% thrust (or even 110%), and fly like this all they time. They just don't use it.

crazyivan1970
07-16-2004, 11:27 AM
Hi kostek, just to make things clear, i`m not Oleg Maddox and not a part of dev team. I`m just a moderator here http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif P-39N seems to be ok in my book, G2 is capable of killing it in my opinion and as far as 1944 Q models, there is always G6/AS and G10 to deal with them. But that is just my opinion. I also believe that G2 is quiet capable in defeating La5 but G6 might have some problems with La5 FN as it should. Besides P-39 doesn`t take too many hits to be near unflyable. But P-63 was a problem since day one in my opinion, my record is 11 30mm rounds and darn thing kept flying. But in the same time it might take short MG burst to set it on fire. Kind of inconsitent.

V!
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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

faustnik
07-16-2004, 11:33 AM
Soviet ground crews replaced the metal covered Amercian-made P-63 wings with wings made of Delta wood. This gave them excellent resistance to German rounds up to 88mm. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Oh, Stigler, stop picking on the P-39! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

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kostek
07-16-2004, 12:04 PM
Sorry then CrazyIvan i thought u're in dev team :P.
But any way, i meet p39 i nearly 1/3 my flights since stalingrad, and i think they're overmodelled. If they flow like this, i'm starting to ask myself why does americans pilots hates them so much, that goverment decided to give them russians, italian, and dunno who else, and decided not to fly them anymore in U.S.A.F???
The other thing is that they can fly all the time loosing oil. I saw 1 p39 with loosing oil that killed 4 109 and get home flying with oil leak for 15 minutes!!! Is that ok???

crazyivan1970
07-16-2004, 12:36 PM
Believe it or not kostek, P-39 was the first light in the end of the tonnel for VVS. Accoring to Pokrishkin it was the first plane VVS has that could compete on vertical and was superior in horizontal manuever to anything LW had to offer. Maybe you just stumbled across a very good pilot. We have done 12 P-39N1 vs 12 G2 COOPs many times, and LW lost only once http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. Other times it was either LW won or draw.

V!
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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

jagdmailer
07-16-2004, 12:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kostek:
Sorry then CrazyIvan i thought u're in dev team :P.
But any way, i meet p39 i nearly 1/3 my flights since stalingradm and i think they're overmodelled.......<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But any way, i meet p39 i nearly 1/3 my flights since stalingrad, and i think they're overmodelled...No $hit.......

Jagd

Gibbage1
07-16-2004, 12:43 PM
HB. I was with you last night. I was one of the ones shot down by him. I am also the one who MODELED the damn thing and fly it 49% of the time, with 49% of the other time the P-39. The 2% left over was my brief time in a 109 last night with you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Let me say this. It cant do what he was doing last night. He was pulling consecutive loops without stalling on a smoking engine. When I fly the P-63, I cant do that because of the laminar flow wings dont like high AOA's. I know how a P-63 can fly better then almost anything.

I dont thrown around the word "hack" much, but I think its deserved in this case. The hack going around now is rather easy to do and is well known to give aircraft odd performances and invulnerability's. I think this guy was playing around with it to see how it works.

Its getting rather rampent like back in the CS days. I hope the patch is out soon.

faustnik
07-16-2004, 12:48 PM
That sucks Gibbage. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Hopefully the patch will end it.

Anyway, if anyone is really mad at the P-63, just take up a Ki84c and get even.

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Gibbage1
07-16-2004, 12:53 PM
I have never been accused of cheating in my P-63. Even when I tag someone 800M away with that 37MM. Im just so used to using it I know how to aim it.

That reminds me. I need to gid up my old copy of IL2 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
That sucks Gibbage. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Hopefully the patch will end it.

Anyway, if anyone is really mad at the P-63, just take up a Ki84c and get even.

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crazyivan1970
07-16-2004, 12:59 PM
I wouldn`t go that far with cheating accusations, i`v done some crazy stuff in P-63 myself and was amazed lol. Energy retention is rather good, turning abilities very good too, but ability to absorb damage is simply fenomenal. I still believe that it`s more of DM issues then anything. Besides being accused of cheating is very common nowdays. I get it 3-4 times per night just for shooting someone down. Nothing suprizes me anymore. Back in the day i`d take it as a compliment, now it`s rather irritating. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

V!
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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Gibbage1
07-16-2004, 01:03 PM
Ivan. I know how its done. I have not done it myself. When I played CS a lot, I would find the cheats and use them offline to see what it is and how to spot it. I was thinking about doing the same. If people simply know what to look for, I think the rampent cheater accusations would slow down and the people who ARE useing it will be removed.

Im not suggesting posting HOW. Just say what to look for and to be aware that its possible till the patch is out.

ZG77_Nagual
07-16-2004, 01:19 PM
I like the p63 - but I like the p39 better - particularly if you want to drift into the turn fighting arena vs things like yaks and ki84s. It does take alot of hits, but fm - wise I don't see much of a problem - though I think the rudder could be a little more effective.

p1ngu666
07-16-2004, 01:22 PM
only damage model is uber, its good at highspeed, but ive found elivotor tobe stiff.
oh and dont take the wing mg, they give it horrible handling

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HeinzBar
07-16-2004, 02:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
HB. I was with you last night. I was one of the ones shot down by him. I am also the one who MODELED the damn thing and fly it 49% of the time, with 49% of the other time the P-39. The 2% left over was my brief time in a 109 last night with you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Let me say this. It cant do what he was doing last night. He was pulling consecutive loops without stalling on a smoking engine. When I fly the P-63, I cant do that because of the laminar flow wings dont like high AOA's. I know how a P-63 can fly better then almost anything.

I dont thrown around the word "hack" much, but I think its deserved in this case. The hack going around now is rather easy to do and is well known to give aircraft odd performances and invulnerability's. I think this guy was playing around with it to see how it works.

Its getting rather rampent like back in the CS days. I hope the patch is out soon.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

S!,
Thanks for verifying my statement Gibbage. It helps to have a witness when one posts here http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BTW, as much as I'm ticked about the possible hack or the unrealistic behavior of the p63, I give you credit for a fine job modeling the p63. I only wish I could get close enough to shoot it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HB

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Steaky_361st
07-16-2004, 02:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kostek:
If they flow like this, i'm starting to ask myself why does americans pilots hates them so much, that goverment decided to give them russians, italian, and dunno who else, and decided not to fly them anymore in U.S.A.F???
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because the USAAF used it sparingly as a ground attack machine due to its overwhelming armnament. Because of this, the USAAF P39s were packed full of extra armor and stronger self sealing tanks, thus making the P39 suck as a fighter.

Since the P39 was struggling in the pacific we gave them to the Russians in the lend lease policy thing. When they got it, they admired the P39s armnament and wanted it as a fighter. So they took the armor and stuff out of them which toned down the weight and drag, thus making the previous ground pounder into a pretty good all around fighter.

The Russian P39 is what we have in the game, not the US version. So of course its gonna fly more like a good all around fighter instead of the draggy ground pounder of the americans.

Although I do agree that the DM is sometimes a little screwy...

Steaky

VW-IceFire
07-16-2004, 02:32 PM
I fly the P-63 from time to time. Its one of those fighters I like to fly when I want to fly an "American" fighter but not something that is heavy like the P-47 or requiring some speed and altitude to mix it up like the P-51.

P-63 in some ways is just fine. Its a bit unstable and in a scissors fight with other planes only the really experienced will be able to stay in the fight...because if you use rudder, ailerons, and elevators all at once out of co-ordination you will spin it. Its very tricky, and as Gibbage mentions, the lamniar flow wings don't like high AoA. That said, I do agree...it can do some really loopy things (pardon the pun in this case http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif). I wasn't there, I didn't see it...

It does have a good climb rate (I think the best out of all USAAF aircraft?) and its one of the most manuverable of the USAAF aircraft. Its also considered fast...not like the P-47 or the P-51 but well enough at low altitude to be very competitive. I think max speed at alt is rated at 410 mph. That may be for the P-63A as well so the C may be a bit faster overall.

The problem, as Crazyivan, and Gibbage, and others have pointed out is largely the DM. The engine is VERY weak. A single machinegun hit will cause smoke and potential fire. Meantime, the wings, tail, and other sections are made of adamantium (X-men reference there http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) and can soak up enourmous damage.

For now, aim for the engine (midsection of the plane) and it will go down FAST. If you have a slow speed turn fighter, catch it in a slow speed turn fight...its a beast at stall speed.

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Korolov
07-16-2004, 03:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
It does have a good climb rate (I think the best out of all USAAF aircraft?)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It won't climb faster than a P-38. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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Gibbage1
07-16-2004, 03:06 PM
I just wanted to say a few things about my P-63.

I first find it funny how NOW people call it Uber. Its been in the game for a few months now. Nothing changed from 2.0 or 2.01. Its still the P-63 people first got to play, so whats differant NOW? Today alone there are 3 "P-63's are uber" post.

Yes, its a tough bird. But who are you to say it was not? I dont have any figures and I never in any of my research heard it was or was not a tough bird. If you going to post that it's to strong, please post proof. At least do some simple test's with a friend or in QMB and post the results.

Yes, its resistant to canon fire. But as someone who fly's the P-63 a LOT, its NOT impervious. You may not see much damage visually, but trust me. I FEEL IT!! Once I get just a few 20MM hits in the wing, its hard to keep that puppy in the air. I did not model any big gaping holes in the wing like you will see if you hit a 109 and such, that does NOT mean its not there. IL2's visual DM and real DM are in no way linked.

The DM is a little funkey in the P-63 yes. I was hit in the wing tip by a 7.62 bullete and my engine smokes. But that seems "on par" with the rest of them. P-47 engine stops with 1 7.62 in the chin. All P-38's guns get wiped out with a hit in the center gondola. FW-190's gunsight gets damaged if a bird hits your windshield. That stupid forcefield around TB3's that protect them against 90% of Mk-108's fired at it. The fact that the B-17 burns as much as a Betty bomber! The list goes on and on. But these are all minor things that ARE getting fixed over time. There were a LOT more in FB, and even more with IL2. This stuff would never get fixed in CFS3.

Hunde_3.JG51
07-16-2004, 03:30 PM
The DM on the P-63 is a terrible, nobody can convince me otherwise. It should be banned IMO until it is fixed. Engine is way too fragile, wings/fueselage are way too tough. This is the worst DM in FB by far and its the only one I have a real problem with, I just hope they fix it. Its a shame becuase I feel like all of Gibbage's great work is wasted on an obviously bugged plane IMO.

As far as flight model goes I can't say, but I am surprised more people don't talk about how good the P-63 is in FB. I've always wondered why people don't talk about it much, its performance is awesome.

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[This message was edited by Hunde_3.JG51 on Fri July 16 2004 at 08:41 PM.]

Willey
07-16-2004, 04:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
The P63 isn't alone in this regard. All P39 family derivatives do these endless 'Yeltsin loops', as do Yak9s, Yak3s, Lavochkins, and, alarmingly, P40s.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You forgot the 51. That one even builds up "NRG" while looping http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/354.gif. There's a track called "P-51weeeee.ntrk" around which shows it nicely http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

ZG77_Nagual
07-16-2004, 04:30 PM
Unlike some planes the P63 has a learning curve. Some of us have learned it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

That said I shot one down the other day in an excellent dogfight in a p39. It took a 37mm hit to the right wing which damaged it enough that the pilot disengaged and, about five minutes later, augered in - probably on approach.

crazyivan1970
07-16-2004, 04:34 PM
Actually i encountered this Nagual character not once @HL, and if i didn`t know him, i`d think he was a cheater http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

V!
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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Osirisx9
07-16-2004, 04:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
I just wanted to say a few things about my P-63.

I first find it funny how NOW people call it Uber. Its been in the game for a few months now. Nothing changed from 2.0 or 2.01. Its still the P-63 people first got to play, so whats differant NOW? Today alone there are 3 "P-63's are uber" post.

Yes, its a tough bird. But who are you to say it was not? I dont have any figures and I never in any of my research heard it was or was not a tough bird. If you going to post that it's to strong, please post proof. At least do some simple test's with a friend or in QMB and post the results.

Yes, its resistant to canon fire. But as someone who fly's the P-63 a LOT, its NOT impervious. You may not see much damage visually, but trust me. I FEEL IT!! Once I get just a few 20MM hits in the wing, its hard to keep that puppy in the air. I did not model any big gaping holes in the wing like you will see if you hit a 109 and such, that does NOT mean its not there. IL2's visual DM and real DM are in no way linked.

The DM is a little funkey in the P-63 yes. I was hit in the wing tip by a 7.62 bullete and my engine smokes. But that seems "on par" with the rest of them. P-47 engine stops with 1 7.62 in the chin. All P-38's guns get wiped out with a hit in the center gondola. FW-190's gunsight gets damaged if a bird hits your windshield. That stupid forcefield around TB3's that protect them against 90% of Mk-108's fired at it. The fact that the B-17 burns as much as a Betty bomber! The list goes on and on. But these are all minor things that ARE getting fixed over time. There were a LOT more in FB, and even more with IL2. This stuff would never get fixed in CFS3.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gibbage1... All I have to say is that I love your P-63. I fly it about 50% of the time and have logged countless hours in the thing. I will even dare say that I just about mastered the thing. I can immagine the frustrated faces of the 109 and 190 pilots as I saddle up on their six. Once I'm there your not shaking me. This plane has so many talents. Couple that with a optimistic DM and I can understand the frustration of the pilots who like to fly German. In an effort to promote good sportmanship I'll help the 109 and 190 pilots and give them a helpfull hint. The P-63 is very unstable in a low speed dogfight. If your in a lowspeed knife fight with a P-63 you can bet that the guy your trying to shoot down is a master and he is going to eventually shoot you down if there are no friendlies to help you. He suckered you into that position and he can break off the engagement on his own terms. Unfortuanaly, most of the time, that doesn't happen until he shoots you down. Only a master will fly a P-63 that close to the edge. Now, Back to my little tip I'm aboout to give you. If you are able to get on the six of a P-63, and the pilot is a little green , just wait until he makes a tight turn to get on your six. (This only works on green pilots or vets that dont see you) While he is in that tight turn, aim for the wingtip on the inside of the turn. Dont aim for the fuselage the DM is pretty tough there. By hitting the wingtip with a few rounds of cannon you will cause the P-63 go into a stall and spin. The pilot will try to correct the excess role induced by the canon hit and in the process stall the wing on the outside of the turn which is already at an excessive angle of attack and close to stalling and into the ground he goes. Remember that the P-63 is very unstable at lowspeeds and high angles of attack. You have to use that weakness. Your not going to bring it down by hacking away at it with your cannon because of the DM. Well just my 2 cents

RAF238thOsiris

Gibbage1
07-16-2004, 05:45 PM
Good tip Oririsx. *sarcasm* THANKS!

Truth is, ANY hits in the wing will make a P-63 squirly to a point I cant turn without it snapping out from under me. Then even a P-47 can turn fight with me. Just put a few 20MM's into the wing (only 1 wing, hitting both will equal out) and enguage him. He cant turn for squat and hitting the wing WILL damage his engine so he cant run/entend. Only friends can same him.

Its funny how hitting both wings will even the P-63 out. A 109 hit me with a few 20MM in the left wing. I got really squirly and flopped a few times. I was just about to give up on the fight when he hit my RIGHT wing. Then the AC started flying better! My left wing was no longer dropping out when I used a little elivator. So I killed the annoying 109 and flew home. I was in trouble the moment I dropped my flaps though. Crashed on landing. Another problem with the P-63's wings. If you get hit there, DONT DEPLOY FLAPS! Lol.

All these LW boys expect ripping tails/wings and big explosions. Just because you dont get that does NOT mean you have not crippled us. A kill is a kill weather its a big wingless fireball or a slightly smoking P-63 that augers in from a flat spin enduced from wing damage.

LuftLuver
07-16-2004, 05:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ZG77_Nagual:
Unlike some planes the P63 has a learning curve. Some of us have learned it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Such a truthful statement. About the time when some of us learned how to use the P51 low and slow, we had 3 and 4 daily threads whining about the Mustang's low speed handling.

You luft guys amaze me on a daily basis. You now have 109s that are among the best turning planes in FB but you will never be happy. So some folks are honing their craft in the P63. By all means come to these forums and cry until the plane is neutered.

You blue people will be happy under one condition: All American planes fly just the P47 so you can shoot US fliers down in droves and RTB patting each other on the back about your skillz in these "experten" luftenkrafts. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif I fly blue when I want easy kills, be sure.

Time to be honest folks.

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VW-IceFire
07-16-2004, 06:06 PM
I don't think it should be banned. Its not that bad...its not to the point where its totally impervious. If you shoot the P-63 it will die. Just be smart for now and really target the center midsection. A well flown (and I mean WELL) FW190 is just as deadly and just as capable of some amazing moves as a P-63 is as a Zero is as any plane is. This really ammounts to the pilot.

The original post here mentions the plane but also the pilot behind it. Yes there are some bugs with the P-63 but not to the point where it doesn't invalidate the pilot.

Gibbage is also correct...fly a P-63 and take a few hits in the wing (heavy mg or a few 20mm) ...it doesn't fly well after that. Fly it and then shoot it (human, not AI) and you'll see that its not a super plane.

As for the Mustang loop....I talked to the guy who could do it, I even tried it myself, I even saw the tracks that he did it in...its not that it doesn't exist either...the plane can loop...but its a very rough loop and its not a viable tactic. So whatever this P-63 pilot was doing it was probably the same good tactics that gets you past in any aircraft of similar ability (or he was doing other things, won't mention it).

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BSS_Vidar
07-16-2004, 08:29 PM
My feelings exactly Luftluver. Ironic name BTW http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I know a P-51 ace and a man who owns one "planes name, Sizzelin' Liz" here in North Florida. I told'em about "Uncle Olegs Uber German and Russian Flying Circus", oops I mean IL-2FB, and the "effectiveness" of their beloved aircraft. They both just shook their heads and grined. To actually see the difference in effectiveness of German flightmodels and ammo over the P-51 and other allied fighters, go to the Greatergreens stats page. You'll see all LW fighters have a 2 to 1 kill ratio over the P-51. Not exactly historical is it. Good pilots in those planes too.
Pacific Fighters can't come out fast enough. Maybe alot of lessons learned have been emplimented. If not, I fly carrier missions with my M8's in Coops.

BSS_Vidar

faustnik
07-16-2004, 09:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftLuver:


You blue people will be happy under one condition: All American planes fly just the P47 so you can shoot US fliers down in droves and RTB patting each other on the back about your skillz in these "experten" luftenkrafts. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif I fly blue when I want easy kills, be sure.

Time to be honest folks.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice post. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif Does it make things easier for you to stereotype people like that? Many of us "blue people" have spent a lot of time trying to Allied a/c improved.

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crazyivan1970
07-16-2004, 09:27 PM
Bravo Luft and Vidar... "well" said http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

V!
Regards,

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VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

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Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

WWMaxGunz
07-16-2004, 09:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kostek:
If they flow like this, i'm starting to ask myself why does americans pilots hates them so much, that goverment decided to give them russians, italian, and dunno who else, and decided not to fly them anymore in U.S.A.F???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Simple. US pilots flew and comment on P-39D model which was not acceptable to Russians either.
But Russia worked with Bell Aircraft to make major internal changes resulting in the N and Q
series, probably why there was ever a P-63 at all.

Still I am not sure the FB P-39's CEM is what it should be regarding the later models after
reading from a Russian Ace how the later models had automatic pitch and throttle controls
tied together and he did not like them. It might have been the N-10 on, I forget. He had
much the same kind of comments on the P-40 and others that I don't see match the sim. Maybe
the next sim, or the one after when fewer flyables are featured and I hope the AI limited to
more realistic behaviours, not diving past limit speeds or climbing incredibly at stall speed
and things like that plus some random to aim but ability to lead with also random error with
correction in time.


Neal

Hunde_3.JG51
07-16-2004, 10:31 PM
As I said in another post, I have a track that clearly shows most of my 13mm and 20mm rounds going right through wing and making no contact at all. It's like the wing isn't there. I then hit very outter wingtip and the engine bursts into thick black smoke.

I will send track to any who would like to see it. If so I recommend waiting until second pass, then going to 1/4 speed and watch from dead six zoomed in on P-63 as many rounds go right through wing without hitting/making contact.

I think this is reason enough for ban, but that is just my opinion and others are free to disagree. But IMO there is little doubt that there is something very wrong with P-63 DM as I have said all along.

Also, track already sent to Oleg.

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faustnik
07-16-2004, 10:59 PM
I've reviwed Hunde's track and agree with his opinion. Parts of the DM model seem to be actually missing for the P-63.

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Gibbage1
07-16-2004, 11:27 PM
Im now 100% convinced there is a big bug in the P-63 DM. I will address it with Oleg and I hope its known and fixed in 2.04. I love flying this bird, but I dont want to fly it knowning its porked.

Hunde_3.JG51
07-16-2004, 11:55 PM
"Im now 100% convinced there is a big bug in the P-63 DM. I will address it with Oleg and I hope its known and fixed in 2.04. I love flying this bird, but I dont want to fly it knowning its porked."

Thanks Gibbage, glad to hear you are on the case. Glad I could help.

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Formerly Kyrule2
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WUAF_Badsight
07-17-2004, 07:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:

I first find it funny how NOW people call it Uber. Its been in the game for a few months now. Nothing changed from 2.0 or 2.01. Its still the P-63 people first got to play, so whats differant NOW? Today alone there are 3 "P-63's are uber" post.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

because its about time its DM was put in the spot light

i love to fly it , but i aint gunna BS about how tuff it is

i have only ever seen its wing get shot off once

i have flowen UNBELIEVEABLE amounts of time with a smoking engine

unlike the Mustang or KI-84 , wing hits dont make it suffer too much loss of speed

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
07-17-2004, 07:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:

Let me say this. It cant do what he was doing last night. He was pulling consecutive loops without stalling on a smoking engine. When I fly the P-63, I cant do that because of the laminar flow wings dont like high AOA's. I know how a P-63 can fly better then almost anything.

I dont thrown around the word "hack" much, but I think its deserved in this case.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


are you 100% sure dude ?

i have had some unreal 1v1s lately where i was outflowen with ease & it really makes you go hmmmm......

that aside , the P-63 & P-39 are loopers

a good pilot who controls his piloting well is what we all try to be & some simply are better than others at it

what i mean is that the P-63 dont suffer much power loss when its smoking (i dont buy into the "fragile motor" debate)

& you get a guy who is basically a good stick he can make you go " hmmmm "

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

HeinzBar
07-17-2004, 09:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftLuver:
Such a truthful statement. About the time when some of us learned how to use the P51 low and slow, we had 3 and 4 daily threads whining about the Mustang's low speed handling.

You luft guys amaze me on a daily basis. You now have 109s that are among the best turning planes in FB but you will never be happy. So some folks are honing their craft in the P63. By all means come to these forums and cry until the plane is neutered.

You blue people will be happy under one condition: All American planes fly just the P47 so you can shoot US fliers down in droves and RTB patting each other on the back about your skillz in these "experten" luftenkrafts. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif I fly blue when I want easy kills, be sure.

Time to be honest folks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Give this man a pill please, he's off his meds.
Instead of trying to help out, Luftlover is one of several posters here who's main mission is start flame wars. Do a search on this guy and look for yourself. In every case his attitude is belligerent, and at best, his contribution is none.

Stoogeovik; def: Those posters that refuse to believe that there are bugs in Luftwaffe aircraft. Posters that would rather make general statements against Luftwaffe aircraft w/o posting counter evidence.

W/O/R,

HB

PS, Thanks for making a track available Hunde.

http://www.jagdverband44.com/JV44Banner400x75.jpg

[This message was edited by HeinzBar on Sat July 17 2004 at 07:42 PM.]

diomedes33
07-17-2004, 12:43 PM
Here's an interesting "feature" I found, that relates to the questionable p-63 dm.

before
http://www.public.asu.edu/~guthriec/p63ki1.jpg

after
http://www.public.asu.edu/~guthriec/p63ki2.jpg

I found as long as you shoot the wing first, you can do this almost every time.

http://www.public.asu.edu/~guthriec/ubi_sig.jpg

diomedes33
07-17-2004, 01:02 PM
Here another one with the tail section and a dora.

http://www.public.asu.edu/~guthriec/p63190d1.jpg

Maybe the sections are detaching in spirit and forgetting to fall off physically.


aka 3./JG51_Specter
http://www.public.asu.edu/~guthriec/ubi_sig.jpg

KGr.HH-Sunburst
07-17-2004, 05:36 PM
WOW so the P63 is in some cases a GHOST plane
no wonder it always scares the $h!t out of me when its behind me http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

no i mean it i rather meet 2 stangs or spits then one P39/P63 maybe they are flown by good pilots i dunno http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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ImpStarDuece
07-17-2004, 06:41 PM
Holy Flying Dutchman Batman!

Its a Ghost Plane!

Nice pics diomedes.

Hmmm... i have a nagging feeling that the P-63 Dm is a smidge off (sarcasm intended).

That said i think the Fm is pretty good, maybe a touch generous in E retention but i think that is more of a universal, engine related problem than an issue with just the P-63. Climb is great though and high speed handeling is pretty good as well.

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steiner562
07-17-2004, 07:01 PM
The damage model is screwed but lets get it straight their not impossible to bring down at the moment IMHO go head to head with one yu win eveytime or atleast damage them severly if your aim is any good.

http://www.bf109.com/gallery/grayeagle/gallgray01sm.jpg

Hunde_3.JG51
07-17-2004, 08:11 PM
Steiner, on my end I have no trouble downing P-63's, I have killed alot of them. But the manner in which I must do so is often ridiculous and this needs to be fixed. I think the people that love to fly the P-63 would agree (as Gibbage said), that they want this fixed so they don't have to feel like they are flying a bugged/porked plane.

And nice pics Specter (you guys know him as Diomedes), more 3.JG51 brilliance http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif.

http://www.brooksart.com/Ontheprowl.jpg

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VW-IceFire
07-17-2004, 08:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BSS_Vidar:
My feelings exactly Luftluver. Ironic name BTW http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I know a P-51 ace and a man who owns one "planes name, Sizzelin' Liz" here in North Florida. I told'em about "Uncle Olegs Uber German and Russian Flying Circus", oops I mean IL-2FB, and the "effectiveness" of their beloved aircraft. They both just shook their heads and grined. To actually see the difference in effectiveness of German flightmodels and ammo over the P-51 and other allied fighters, go to the Greatergreens stats page. You'll see all LW fighters have a 2 to 1 kill ratio over the P-51. Not exactly historical is it. Good pilots in those planes too.
Pacific Fighters can't come out fast enough. Maybe alot of lessons learned have been emplimented. If not, I fly carrier missions with my M8's in Coops.

BSS_Vidar<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hopefully they get a second opinion just to be sure. I'm not convinced of uncle Oleg's uber anything frankly.

I also find it interesting that you are holding up the records of Greatergreen and then suggesting that they should be historically matched. That kind of reasoning is terribly flawed for so many reasons (least of which being pilot training, strategic advantage, morale, supplies, etc.).

I fly for all sides...I'm just as experienced in the P-51 and the Spitfire as I am in the FW190. I'm not a good 109 pilot but I can get kills in it if I'm a little lucky. I can make the P-47 work for me and the P-63 is kind of fun to fly on occasion. Yak's I have an interesting time with as well.

Point being that I fly for virtually all sides and aircraft and find none particularly more difficult than another. Each aircraft has its quirks...if learned, then you can be effective in it.

In anycase, way off topic.

P-63 DM needs a bit o work and she'll be fine http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Gibbage1
07-19-2004, 03:11 AM
Just spoke with Oleg.

P-63DM bug is now known. Unfortunatly its to late to get it in the next patch (2.04 at the moment) and must wait for the next patch.

Thanks everyone for nailing this one and not letting it get into a "No its not/Yes it is" war. Please remember. If you find something like this, TEST TEST TEST!

As a beta tester, the first thing you do is make sure it happens again, and it if does, make sure its repeatable and record it.

ImpStarDuece
07-19-2004, 07:26 AM
Good neews Gibbage. Thanks for the info.

Another bug bites the dust!

Flying Bullet Magnet... Catching Lead Since 2002

"There's no such thing as gravity, the earth sucks!"

"War is just an extension of politics carried out by other means" von Clauswitz.

HeinzBar
07-19-2004, 07:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Just spoke with Oleg.

P-63DM bug is now known. Unfortunatly its to late to get it in the next patch (2.04 at the moment) and must wait for the next patch.

Thanks everyone for nailing this one and not letting it get into a "No its not/Yes it is" war. Please remember. If you find something like this, TEST TEST TEST!

As a beta tester, the first thing you do is make sure it happens again, and it if does, make sure its repeatable and record it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

S!,
Outstanding news Gib. At least we've got an acknowledgement that there is something wrong w/ the p63...hmm, could the p39s also have this problem? LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Anyhow, now there is a legitimate reason to exclude the p63 in DF servers until it is corrected.

Thanks for bringing this to Oleg's attention Gib.

HB

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diomedes33
07-19-2004, 09:32 AM
Great news gib, thanks for letting us know.


aka 3./JG51_Specter
http://www.public.asu.edu/~guthriec/ubi_sig.jpg

Functio
07-19-2004, 09:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Bravo Luft and Vidar... "well" said http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm - be realistic please

- don't judge the aircraft by the way things work in dogfight servers. If you do, you have to imagine that all combat took place below 2000m with all pilots getting into constant turn fights http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

- P-51s did well in real life partly because they were very good up high (as was the Jug and the Lightning) - this is also the case in FB/AEP - and partly because there were alot of them flying over Europe.

Time and time again people whine about various planes simply because they spend all of their time in DF servers. Co-ops give a much better impression of what any given plane can do - but they also show that the FMs can still be screwy. People should try and replicate actaul combat conditions/scenarios before discussing any plane - and you won't get any good idea about what you're talking about if you just fly DF games. The US planes are lethal in the right hands, but one rarely sees anyone flying them at their best - especially not in DF games. It's just not a factor.

Gibbage1
07-19-2004, 11:49 AM
I dont know about excluding it from DF servers. Its still easy to shoot down. Just dont mail for the wings! A few MG's into the engine produces a nice ball of flame!!!

I think having the P-63DM this way will help Luftwaffa aim! Think about it. With the Mk-108 you rely on having a high deflection shot at the wings. Now that you can only hit the engine, you will need to aim more!

I wont be flying the P-63 much myself, but its still a fine bird. I would hate to see it banned from servers till the next patch. We dont even know when that will be.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HeinzBar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Just spoke with Oleg.

P-63DM bug is now known. Unfortunatly its to late to get it in the next patch (2.04 at the moment) and must wait for the next patch.

Thanks everyone for nailing this one and not letting it get into a "No its not/Yes it is" war. Please remember. If you find something like this, TEST TEST TEST!

As a beta tester, the first thing you do is make sure it happens again, and it if does, make sure its repeatable and record it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

S!,
Outstanding news Gib. At least we've got an acknowledgement that there is something wrong w/ the p63...hmm, could the p39s also have this problem? LOL http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Anyhow, now there is a legitimate reason to exclude the p63 in DF servers until it is corrected.

Thanks for bringing this to Oleg's attention Gib.

HB

http://www.jagdverband44.com/JV44Banner400x75.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

VMF513_Sandman
07-19-2004, 07:47 PM
this plane does have amazing speed. 2 things i notice tho is, narrow forward visibility, and it's abrupt stall characteristics if u forget to trim the bird level. apparently on start up, 1 wing will be mis-trimmed along with the rudder. its also apparent that this plane needs speed and alot of it. armored like a brick chithouse, but so is the ki-84-c. if u shoot the fusalage of the ki, u wont get much except for a fuel leak...if ur lucky, a pk(aim for the center of the tail; 1 20mm cannon shot right in the rudder from dead 6 will kill the pilot). in the tracks in game, i noticed the p-38's aimed for the wing roots, and it started a fire on that wing. i've lit the wings with 50 caliber hitting the wingroots of the 84-a, but the c model is a bit over-armored.

Gibbage1
07-19-2004, 07:55 PM
Ya. ITs the only bird that will chase down Luftrunners. That was one thing I hated about the P-39. Any target could disenguage at-will and simply run if the fight turns sour. Unless I am hit in the engine in a P-63 (ANY hit effects the engine) then I can out-run anything but a 109Z down low. Plus I can put a 37MM up your rudder from 500-800M away.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VMF513_Sandman:
this plane does have amazing speed. 2 things i notice tho is, narrow forward visibility, and it's abrupt stall characteristics if u forget to trim the bird level. apparently on start up, 1 wing will be mis-trimmed along with the rudder. its also apparent that this plane needs speed and alot of it. armored like a brick chithouse, but so is the ki-84-c. if u shoot the fusalage of the ki, u wont get much except for a fuel leak...if ur lucky, a pk(aim for the center of the tail; 1 20mm cannon shot right in the rudder from dead 6 will kill the pilot). in the tracks in game, i noticed the p-38's aimed for the wing roots, and it started a fire on that wing. i've lit the wings with 50 caliber hitting the wingroots of the 84-a, but the c model is a bit over-armored.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WUAF_Badsight
07-19-2004, 10:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Functio:


- don't judge the aircraft by the way things work in dogfight servers. If you do, you have to imagine that all combat took place below 2000m with all pilots getting into constant turn fights .<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

fly in more servers

high alt happens a lot

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!"
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WWMaxGunz
07-19-2004, 10:48 PM
P-51's are still used as racing planes today, down low even.
There's also at least one F6F. The airframes must not have
that much of a problem with drag or they wouldn't be used,
wouldn't take home prizes.

But a P-40 should outturn it at least at combat speed.


Neal

HeinzBar
07-20-2004, 07:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Functio:
Hmm - be realistic please

- don't judge the aircraft by the way things work in dogfight servers. If you do, you have to imagine that all combat took place below 2000m with all pilots getting into constant turn fights http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

S!,
No disrespect intended, but most of the nearly full real DF servers, ie. War Clouds, will have guys flying at 4000m+ on a regular basis. I know I nearly always fly my Dora above 4000+m...it just works better up high. You'll see alot of the 310th pilots, like Diablo, up that high w/ their jugs and Stangs. It makes for great fun and is so much nicer than turning in the mud.

HB

http://www.jagdverband44.com/JV44Banner400x75.jpg

Functio
07-20-2004, 08:00 AM
Yep, I'm sure there are some servers where people actually use tactics and work with their plane's best qualities. But on the other hand there are alot more servers out there were this is not the norm. This is why I think that alot of whining, etc. is misplaced, because alot of people still fly the planes in this sim as if it was a FPS.

NorrisMcWhirter
07-20-2004, 11:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Dang HB... i guess it really got to you http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif It is a fast plane indeed... and very manuverable...but i believe problem is not all that, problem is untill you take its wings off, it flies like there is no tomorrow. To me it`s more of DM issue, As far as FM goes, nothing that 109 can`t handle IMO.


I agree with this. The P63 FM seems reasonable but the DM is more of a point of contention with me.

Cheers,
Norris
V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
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HeinzBar
07-27-2004, 11:49 PM
S!,
Just letting off steam again. I hate the p63's DM. I really wish I didn't, but the lack of a decent DM just drives me mad.

Once again, 4 of us chased a p63 around, up and down, placing hit, after hit, after hit on it and it kept going. And, once again, the p63 flew away smoking after soaking up multiple cannon shots and countless MGs shots.

Perhaps, a correct DM will be at the top of the 'to do' list for the next patch. As it is right now, I just don't have any respect for the plane and its' screwed up DM.

HB

http://www.jagdverband44.com/JV44Banner400x75.jpg

[This message was edited by HeinzBar on Wed July 28 2004 at 10:46 AM.]

Hoarmurath
07-28-2004, 12:03 AM
Well, as there is a recognized bug in its DM, serious servers should remove it from their plane set...

http://hoarmurath.free.fr/images/sighoar.jpg (http://hoarmurath.free.fr/files/internationale-ru.mp3)
56Kers are strongly advised to NOT click on my signature http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LuftLuver
07-28-2004, 12:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HeinzBar:
S!,
Just letting off steam again. I hate the p63. I really wish I didn't, but the lack of a decent DM just drives me mad.

ONce again, 4 of us chased a p63 around, up and down, placing hit, after hit, after hit on it and it kept going. And, once again, the p63 flew away smoking after soaking up multiple cannon shots and countless MGs shots.

Perhaps, a correct DM will be at the top of the 'to do' list for the next patch. As it is right now, I just don't have any respect for the plane and it's screwed up DM.

HB

http://www.jagdverband44.com/JV44Banner400x75.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gee, Heinz.

Now you know what it's like for allied players shooting at the bogus 190 DM. Only in the last patch or 2 has it become slightly mortal. Still too tough, but we are soldiering on with nary a forum complaint.

OOPS! Till now. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

β"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Ά
"All your bases are belong to us."

HeinzBar
07-28-2004, 11:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftLuver:

Gee, Heinz.

Now you know what it's like for allied players shooting at the bogus 190 DM. Only in the last patch or 2 has it become slightly mortal. Still too tough, but we are soldiering on with nary a forum complaint.

OOPS! Till now. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Give me a break LL. The fw190 has always been the red-headed step child of the entire IL2 series. It has had more trouble w/ inaccuracies than any other plane in this sim series. People have been dealing the DM & FM of the fw190 since it's inception and yet people still fly it. The list is too long about how many things were wrong w/ it. It was only through the effort of others that many things were corrected, ie Flip-Flop low speed handling.

However, as usual w/you stoogeviks, you'd rather cast doubt and innuendo rather than bring problems into the forefront to be addressed. Rather than trying to side track this thread, try to help out. Provide proof that the p63 is correct or incorrect. I, and I'm sure many others, would appreciate the effort more than the subtle snippets you're infamous for.

Hint: I would suspect it's your gunnery skills that need addressing if you can't down a 190 now rather than the fw190 being too tough. I know I've been shot down enough by the likes of Diablo, GoodK1ght, and other online pilots while flying the fw190.

HB

http://www.jagdverband44.com/JV44Banner400x75.jpg

JG7_Rall
07-28-2004, 12:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BSS_Vidar:
My feelings exactly Luftluver. Ironic name BTW http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif I know a P-51 ace and a man who owns one "planes name, Sizzelin' Liz" here in North Florida. I told'em about "Uncle Olegs Uber German and Russian Flying Circus", oops I mean IL-2FB, and the "effectiveness" of their beloved aircraft. They both just shook their heads and grined. To actually see the difference in effectiveness of German flightmodels and ammo over the P-51 and other allied fighters, go to the Greatergreens stats page. You'll see all LW fighters have a 2 to 1 kill ratio over the P-51. Not exactly historical is it. Good pilots in those planes too.
Pacific Fighters can't come out fast enough. Maybe alot of lessons learned have been emplimented. If not, I fly carrier missions with my M8's in Coops.

BSS_Vidar<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You gotta remember though, by the end when the mustangs where showing up in big numbers, many of the 109 pilots were hitler youth with less than 10 hours of flying time.

"Son, never ask a man if he is a fighter pilot. If he is, he'll let you know. If he isn't, don't embarrass him."
Badges!? We don't needs no stinkin' badges!

LuftLuver
07-28-2004, 03:46 PM
BOOM! Direct hit on a Heinzbar nerve.

Well my post was fairly tame and ended with a funnie. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif In fact my marksmanship is quite good and I've put my share of 190s down BEFORE and after the DM adjustments. If you want a specific problem, then go and put 3-4 37mm rounds into a 190 and see how funny it is.

No I will not record a trak and post it here, because everyone and their dog is fully aware.

β"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Άβ"Ά
"All your bases are belong to us."

NorrisMcWhirter
07-29-2004, 10:31 AM
Hi,

The P63 is the same joke as the old 'Ki84 DM' gag that was with us some time ago and it's painfully obvious that if it weren't for fanbo...er...location of servers, it would have been banned a long time ago.

As to the 190 having a dodgy DM... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
www.chavscum.co.uk (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)

'Bugs? What bugs?'
'AAA steals online kills, crash landing if good landing but out of fuel, muzzle flashes, kill given for planes that have landed OK, AI steals offline kills, gauges not working, Spitfire never overheats, FW190 view, P63 damage model, weird collision modelling...'
'Yeah, but look on the bright side - at least the 0.50s are fixed!'
Moral: $$$ + whining = anything is possible

WWMaxGunz
07-29-2004, 08:31 PM
I am sure that the planes are 'right ones' on the Norris server.

I look forward to all the new sims from the biggest complainers of IL2/FB/AEP.


Neal

NorrisMcWhirter
07-30-2004, 07:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
I am sure that the planes are 'right ones' on the Norris server.

I look forward to all the new sims from the biggest complainers of IL2/FB/AEP.


Neal<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi,

Actually, you are quite incorrect - there is a good selection of planes on the Norris server except the Ki84-1c just because it unbalanced the map and not because it was decided to be somehow uber.

We even have a P-63 on one map even though it is unbelievably bad in the DM department. That aside, though, most of the maps steer clear of late war UFOs because this is where FB can just get a little bit silly.

As to new sims, why? I think the pros in FB outweigh the cons but how long it stays like this, with changes made just because of the amount of saline solution ejected from tear ducts, I'm not sure.

Cheers,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
www.chavscum.co.uk (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)

'Bugs? What bugs?'
'AAA steals online kills, crash landing if good landing but out of fuel, muzzle flashes, kill given for planes that have landed OK, AI steals offline kills, gauges not working, Spitfire never overheats, FW190 view, P63 damage model, weird collision modelling...'
'Yeah, but look on the bright side - at least the 0.50s are fixed!'
Moral: $$$ + whining = anything is possible

Ki_Rin
07-31-2004, 01:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
Soviet ground crews replaced the metal covered Amercian-made P-63 wings with wings made of Delta wood. This gave them excellent resistance to German rounds up to 88mm. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


If bullets were made of deltawood, nobody would have a problem taking down P63s, and mk108s would be redundant http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/mdegnan/_images/FaustSig
_http://www.7jg77.com is recruiting_
_http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=31_<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Consequences are for lesser beings; I am Ki-Rin...that is sanction enough"

Fehler
07-31-2004, 01:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LuftLuver:
Gee, Heinz.

Now you know what it's like for allied players shooting at the bogus 190 DM. Only in the last patch or 2 has it become slightly mortal. Still too tough, but we are soldiering on with nary a forum complaint.

"All your bases are belong to us."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, we (190 drivers) told Oleg that we wouldnt do any work for him unless he made it that way; he listened.

And, it's "All your base are belong to us." Not base(s). It's from an English dubbed (Poorly) Sega Genesis game called Zero Wing.

In A.D. 2101
War was beginning.
Captain: What happen ?
Mechanic: Somebody set up us the bomb.
Operator: We get signal.
Captain: What !
Operator: Main screen turn on.
Captain: It's You !!
Cats: How are you gentlemen !!
Cats: All your base are belong to us.
Cats: You are on the way to destruction.
Captain: What you say !!
Cats: You have no chance to survive make your time.
Cats: HA HA HA HA ....

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/FehlerSig.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

WWMaxGunz
07-31-2004, 07:09 AM
Hey Norris, I like the early to midwar planes the best, myself.
Especially about 42 on Eastfront, maybe 43 when VVS isn't in
too bad but not too good a position.

one big reason I liked West Front WWI sims is the back and forth
development advanatges situation. A few months and your side has
it better but not uber and then the other side comes out with the
next new plane(s) and you are on the defense. It forces players
to change tactics and styles, adapt and kill to adapt or die.

But I still believe that freedom of choices lets servers proliferate
and gives players more places to be happy, spread the word and get
others to play. I think this is good all around so I say, let them
do as they wish as it is their time and money.


Neal

p1ngu666
07-31-2004, 11:43 AM
yep early/mid war is the most fun http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://www.pingu666.modded.me.uk/mysig3.jpg
&lt;123_GWood_JG123&gt; NO SPAM!

NorrisMcWhirter
07-31-2004, 07:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WWMaxGunz:
Hey Norris, I like the early to midwar planes the best, myself.
Especially about 42 on Eastfront, maybe 43 when VVS isn't in
too bad but not too good a position.

one big reason I liked West Front WWI sims is the back and forth
development advanatges situation. A few months and your side has
it better but not uber and then the other side comes out with the
next new plane(s) and you are on the defense. It forces players
to change tactics and styles, adapt and kill to adapt or die.

But I still believe that freedom of choices lets servers proliferate
and gives players more places to be happy, spread the word and get
others to play. I think this is good all around so I say, let them
do as they wish as it is their time and money.


Neal<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

^ I agree - there should be choice and there should be variety (two different things, in my book). I find it disheartening, though, when choice is limited through bias.

This is why I like &lt;= 1943; I think the plane sets are more reasonable (historical?) at this time.

Regards,
Norris

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
www.chavscum.co.uk (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)

'Bugs? What bugs?'
'AAA steals online kills, crash landing if good landing but out of fuel, muzzle flashes, kill given for planes that have landed OK, AI steals offline kills, gauges not working, Spitfire never overheats, FW190 view, P63 damage model, weird collision modelling...'
'Yeah, but look on the bright side - at least the 0.50s are fixed!'
Moral: $$$ + whining = anything is possible

LBR_Barkhorn
08-05-2004, 05:20 PM
I know that P63 DM is overmodeled, but, if you aim for the tail section and rudder, you will get a good result, even in a plane without MK108. Just try it and write your results here.

Hauptmann G. Barkhorn - "White 11"
I/ZG1 "Wespe"
Bf-110G2 experten!!!

http://www.alldata.com.br/fischer/Avatares/banner_bark.gif

BigganD
08-06-2004, 08:00 AM
all russian DM are at last fixed for the mk108s, still as now meny knows the p63 isnt, and i want to add that the P51NA/1944 has an also f***ed DM..

"Get close .. when he fills the entire windscreen ... then you can't possibly miss." Erich Hartmann

DaBallz
08-06-2004, 08:38 AM
Don't worry, the P-63 has been dumbed down in a big
way for patch 2.04.

All the western allied aircraft I have tried
in the FB2.04 patch have been dumbed down so much
as to be laughable.
Oleg has turned this sim into a "Farenheight 911"
flight sim. Bad flight models, a sad joke
on consumers.
Hopefully someone else will build a better
more honest flight simulator.

IL2/FB always STUNK of nationalism, now it's so
bad it's a sad joke.

Da...

gates123
08-06-2004, 09:56 AM
Lets see proof!!! Enough speculation and nationalistic comments. No proof = stfu

http://www.fightingcolors.com/custompagestuff/b17visibility72.jpg
Did anyone see that or was it just me?

crazyivan1970
08-06-2004, 10:16 PM
DaBallz, all you do is talk... can you even fly? I highly doubt it. If you did, you`d know better...
I think who really stunk of NATIONALISM is you. Those who weak behind the joystick are looking for tiny little details to justify their weakness.... try and prove me otherwise.
Good luck.

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/band.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

NorrisMcWhirter
08-07-2004, 06:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DaBallz:
Don't worry, the P-63 has been dumbed down in a big
way for patch 2.04.

All the western allied aircraft I have tried
in the FB2.04 patch have been dumbed down so much
as to be laughable.
Oleg has turned this sim into a "Farenheight 911"
flight sim. Bad flight models, a sad joke
on consumers.
Hopefully someone else will build a better
more honest flight simulator.

IL2/FB always STUNK of nationalism, now it's so
bad it's a sad joke.

Da...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

================================================== ==========

: Chris Morris - Blue Jam :
http://cabinessence.cream.org/

: More irreverence :
http://www.tvgohome.com/

: You've seen them... :
www.chavscum.co.uk (http://www.chavscum.co.uk)

'Bugs? What bugs?'
'AAA steals online kills, crash landing if good landing but out of fuel, muzzle flashes, kill given for planes that have landed OK, AI steals offline kills, gauges not working, Spitfire never overheats, FW190 view, P63 damage model, weird collision modelling...'
'Yeah, but look on the bright side - at least the 0.50s are fixed!'
Moral: $$$ + whining = anything is possible

ZG77_Nagual
08-07-2004, 07:04 AM
definitely don't agree about that. The P63 is quite good and seems to turn a little better. Only US plane I have any complaints about is the P38 - and I just think it's low speed turn should be a tad better, be nice if the rudders were a little crisper too but I have no proof for that. Anywho, I don't see the bias.

JaBo_HH-BlackSheep
08-07-2004, 08:46 AM
to be honest i think daBallz has no....

http://home.arcor.de/sebastianleitiger/FB/Screens/Fw%20190A-4guns.JPG (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=185103665)

DarthBane_
08-08-2004, 08:13 AM
true