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Future-
04-21-2004, 10:48 AM
Well, the title says it. Why has it been locked without any comment, and by whom?

If some mod thought it didn't belong in the ORR, well, I think that's not right, 'cause the problem adressed in that thread is definitely directed to the dev team.

And although the style of the thread is a bit... bumpy, it contained a more than valid request, not only by me or the thread initiator jimbolina, but also by several others.

So a little word of explanation would be nice, or even better, open the thread again!

S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

Future-
04-21-2004, 10:48 AM
Well, the title says it. Why has it been locked without any comment, and by whom?

If some mod thought it didn't belong in the ORR, well, I think that's not right, 'cause the problem adressed in that thread is definitely directed to the dev team.

And although the style of the thread is a bit... bumpy, it contained a more than valid request, not only by me or the thread initiator jimbolina, but also by several others.

So a little word of explanation would be nice, or even better, open the thread again!

S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

crazyivan1970
04-21-2004, 10:55 AM
Was locked by me, because it should have been locked yesterday...but didn`t work, not sure why. What`s the point of that thread? To steer up something? I did posted update last week, nothing changed since then, when something does i will make sure that you guys will get the info. Oleg is not around right now...so?

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-21-2004, 10:58 AM
mmmm...kay. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

Future-
04-21-2004, 11:34 AM
Well, I once again have to thank you for that update you gave us, but...

1.) a current plane list would be nice. The last time somone posted a list here, you just replied "not accurate", but didn't post a new list.

2.) I still believe the dev team is composed of more people capable of reading and understanding than just Oleg himself, so maybe one of them can also give us a heads-up on what they're mainly working on in that patch right now.

Well, I think both requests I brought up here could be served if you, Ivan, just post a (more or less complete) list of fixes, changes and planes currently in the patch, with the usual reminder marked on it that nothing is final till it's done.
But at least we would know what's in the works.

S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

crazyivan1970
04-21-2004, 11:41 AM
Why do you want me to anounce list of new planes Future? How about a surprize? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif There are plenty fixes and changes too. So, i would understand frustration if nothing was being done and patch was not promised. But when it`s complete opposite, why start those kind of topics? Besides that, i`m not stupid, i`v been around long enough to realize that "new" users starting topics in caps are not that "new" after all.

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Gryphonne
04-21-2004, 11:45 AM
@Future

Where did ivan post it was "not accurate"? Just curious as it got me a tad worrying. I hope the A6 is still in for the first patch :|

Regards,

Gryphon

crazyivan1970
04-21-2004, 11:47 AM
No worries Gryp http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

KGr.HH-Sunburst
04-21-2004, 11:50 AM
Future i think your crusade for more patch information will never work

not even a thousand posts will change that
Ubi/1C is known for letting us in the dark

dont get me wrong i to want some more info just as much as you do
and i dont understand why they cant give us some usefull info but it has always been that way
most of us arnt asking for a release date and neither do i,i dont care for a solid date.
If it isnt ready it isnt ready no matter how much we whine for it
all i want is some nice info about the patch.

http://www.freewebs.com/fightingpumas/

Red_Storm
04-21-2004, 12:06 PM
I don't know about you guys, but I love it the way it is. It makes it all the more fun when the patch ectually do gets released all of a sudden. I always get a sudden rush of adrenaline when I'm on one of my routine board checks and I see the homepage "1.2 PATCH has been RELEASED!" and then firing it up to see which new planes have been added. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Zen--
04-21-2004, 12:09 PM
Besides the fact that UBI has been this way for nearly 3 years, you'd think people would be used to it by now.

The patch arrives when it arrives. What is hard to accept about that?

-Zen-

Capt._Tenneal
04-21-2004, 12:16 PM
Will a compromise work ? Maybe the ReadMe to the patch can be released some time before the actual patch.

Not an attempt to incite anything. I'm just thinking of something to "throw a bone" to the patch-now folks without actually being pressured to release the patch before it's ready. If it's impractical or doesn't make any sense, please excuse me. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I'm perfectly willing to wait for the patch patiently.

BpGemini
04-21-2004, 12:27 PM
What ever happened to patience?

Some "grown" people act like 5 year olds on Christmas morning.
Take your Riddilin!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.blitzpigs.com/images/P-39_BlitzPig_Sig_01.jpg
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

VW-IceFire
04-21-2004, 01:27 PM
I'm kinda hoping that the patch doesn't arrive till after my last exam next Wednesday but I'm used to disappointment as well http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

h009291
04-21-2004, 01:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
What ever happened to patience?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're kidding right??

6 weeks+ of that damn "On-line, Start-Game, AI warping into position, crash" Bug is starting to piss me off.

http://www.medals.org.uk/united-kingdom/images/uk654.jpg

BpGemini
04-21-2004, 02:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by h009291:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
What ever happened to patience?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're kidding right??

6 weeks+ of that damn "On-line, Start-Game, AI warping into position, crash" Bug is starting to piss me off. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


That almost sounds simply like a bad connection. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

That's the first I've heard of that "bug". The sound bug that created timeouts was easy to fix.

Beside do you want the patches done right or do you want more "bugs"? They'll get it to you when they are done.

http://www.blitzpigs.com/images/P-39_BlitzPig_Sig_01.jpg
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

Future-
04-21-2004, 02:43 PM
Seems some people like Zen misunderstood me, so I once again make it clear:

It's fine by me if 1C/Ubi has adopted the 3dRealms credo "When it's done" ( as if that serves them well, sheesh ), all I want is some solid information on what's going on.

Besides, the fact that many companies leave their customers "in the dark" is only possible because the community doesn't yell loud and often enough for a change in this "tradition".
History has shown that ongoing cries for a change actually lead to a change sooner or later, I'm quite surprised that this fine community is actually mostly willing to do whatever 1C/Ubi pleases, in this case sittin' around and not knowing an' not doing anything. WE are the ones that paid for their products, WE are the reason why they decided to get more projects going, and WE are the ones that are supposed to once again pony up some good money for their next product. Without US, no project, and no pay cheque either.

Besides, there has to be some kind of status report, cause you can't tell me that noone but the dev team knows what's going on... imagine this:

Company boss: "Where's the status report on our current project?"

Employee: "I'm sorry Sir, but the dev team decided not to give out any information on current status."

Company boss: "What the... get me the team leader RIGHT NOW! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif "


See, bosses can fire an employee if he doesn't give updates on what he's doing, and also lacks to bring up any results.
But if a big number of customers gets mad, the entire company has to feel the effect when they try selling their next product.

In other words, this "information blockade" is just either misplaced arrogance, or an unfortunate decision made by someone who thinks he knows what he's doing.


To put this in short: if this community now and then stands up, things can only get better. If we act as a whole, we might make a difference.
Maybe we might even get some solid information http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ...

As Tenneal suggested, bringing up the current ReadMe would be nice.
Of course, their would be whines, but I vote for this plan:

Release the readme, and let us, the "veterans", deal with the whines and discussions!
Give us something to work with!


With all due respect, and hoping that I was understood correctly,

S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

Future-
04-21-2004, 02:53 PM
@ Gryphonne: It took me a few minutes, but I found the proper thread with the "not accurate" reply:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=564103463


S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

clint-ruin
04-21-2004, 03:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Future-:
It's fine by me if 1C/Ubi has adopted the 3dRealms credo "When it's done" ( as if that serves them well, sheesh ), all I want is some solid information on what's going on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

B-25s, desert map, re-done anticheat and weapon damage code ..

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Besides, there has to be some kind of status report, cause you can't tell me that noone but the dev team knows what's going on... imagine this:

Company boss: "Where's the status report on our current project?"

Employee: "I'm sorry Sir, but the dev team decided not to give out any information on current status."

Company boss: "What the... get me the team leader RIGHT NOW! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif "


See, bosses can fire an employee if he doesn't give updates on what he's doing, and also lacks to bring up any results.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here is what happens on an internet message board:

Customer [who for some reason assumes that he is indeed anything like the developers "boss"]: Are we there yet?

developer: no.

customer: are we there yet?

developer: no.

customer: are we there yet?

developer: no.

customer: are we there yet?

developer: no.

customer: why don't you treat us like adults? we won't buy your next game!

developer: developers owe you nothing.

time passes, expansion pack/next game comes out.

customer: are we there yet?

developer: no. I thought you weren't going to buy our next game?

customer: *shuffles feet awkwardly*

Seriously - future - they have released information in Crazys sticky thread at the top of ORR. The planes list and fix list is most likely not yet finalised and it serves noone for them to overpromise and then underdeliver.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

noshens
04-21-2004, 03:23 PM
I totally agree with future. I also think that the dev team at least should tell us what are we going to get or what are they working on right now. If Oleg can't predict release date I don't see the point in saying that the patch will be out in 2 weeks if that‚'s not even close to be estimation. And why don't we get any updates on the patch in the Friday's development update?

LW_Icarus
04-21-2004, 03:35 PM
Personally speaking, I dont see where the 1C maddox team has done anything to be critisized for. They have exceeded my expectations with Aces A/C and maps. love it.

Ubi, on the other hand released a premature product. I imagine Oleg and crew wouldve rather released the expansion when it was in a finished state.

The biggest pain is lack of dedicated server software. if we, the cable users behind a router, could host games it may be better, but since we cannot, and we are the majority of the flyers, and now our remote dedicated servers are down, there is hardly anywhere to fly.

The few rooms that are using 2.0 are either noob settings, or full all the time. and if ya do get in a room,it lags all over the place to the point of being unplayable.

Ubi Support wont reply to my emails anymore, and I have been very civil in all contact with them, since I hosted before 1.11 patch, and subsequent Ubi update,I know its possible to fix.

How can Ubi simultaneously have the best games out there, and the worst support for their customers. people argue that because of the low numbers of players in FB online that we are less important to them. WTF? don't these people understand the basis of customer service?

Don't release premature software, and when there is a problem for your customers, at least seem half interested in solving it.

I have at least 10 Ubi titles,most of which were purchased when new, at hi prices, and most of which Im happy with. but I may hesitate the next time I look at an Ubi game that involves an online component.

If another developer/producer team produced a flight sim 80% as good as maddox's titles, but with the support it deserved, and a company smart enough not to put themselves in a position where people could be rightfully critical of their business practices, then FB would dry up like a raisin.

Anyway, imho, a server patch shoulda been on the disc. and if its an "extra" then those of us with multiple internal ips need to be able to host. release planes and maps at your leisure, we already have a ton of stuff to fly, and lotsa real estate to fly over.

whitetornado_1
04-21-2004, 03:37 PM
Your customer probably had a copied version anyways clint http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

This old customer will not buy the game(battle in the Pacific)
Oh did I specify buy and not copy? oh ya I did http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Future-
04-21-2004, 03:40 PM
Pardon me Icarus, of course I forgot to include the request for information regarding the dedicated server software.

Thanks for adding this here, it even more shows there's a serious need for an update here.

S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

VW-IceFire
04-21-2004, 03:41 PM
"Two weeks" is a joke we have here in the community. Maybe not everyone is aware of that but its usually said with enough happy faces and other emoticons that most people catch on. I don't know where it came from but I find it funny and deadly accurate.

I'll say it again...if any of you have done software development or anything else that goes by a schedule you'll know that things are prone to delay, to complication, to bugs, crashes, losses of data, bizzar weather events, personal issues, and a variety of unaccounted for glitches and requests. That is the simple answer for why not to give a release date.

I'd love to know more about what is going on...but I also totally understand that if they tell the general public here something and something else happens then you get a whole bunch of people asking where whatever that something was, where it is, why Oleg can't give it to us, and why aren't they listening to us.

Its a catch 22 that most software developers keep even further away from the line than what Oleg does. We've got it very lucky here...we've got a very open channel to the developers that does not exist in many other places.

We deserve to know something and we do know...but we want more and we just can't have it right now. Maybe soon http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Future-
04-21-2004, 03:45 PM
@ clint-ruin: I'm not asking if we are "there" yet... I'm requesting information. And I'm trying to show that there are quite simple and reasonable ways to give us the requested information, just as Tenneal proposed.

Besides, employees that openly treat customers bad aren't the hit of the party in a good company.
Unless of course you want to imply that 1C/Ubi don't really care forus customers in this matter, in that case Icarus would be right.

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

Future-
04-21-2004, 03:51 PM
@ Icefire: I don't want a release date!

All I want is some information (like the current patch readme) on the development. And, as I proposed, let us, the community, deal with the responses to that info.

1C/Ubi shall dish the readme out, with their usual "nothing set in stone" phrase on it, and let us deal with it.
If some people start complaining then, we can take this in our hands.

S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

clint-ruin
04-21-2004, 03:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Future-:
@ clint-ruin: I'm not asking if we are "there" yet... I'm requesting information. And I'm trying to show that there are quite simple and reasonable ways to give us the requested information, just as Tenneal proposed.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As much information as can be confirmed has been released.

...

Do you want unconfirmed information that may not necessarily reflect what we end up with in the final version? Do you know what kind of erruption that would cause to happen in ORR? :&gt;

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Besides, employees that openly treat customers bad aren't the hit of the party in a good company.
Unless of course you want to imply that 1C/Ubi don't really care forus customers in this matter, in that case Icarus would be right.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

UBI couldn't care less about after sales support. In fact a few moves they've done have quite actively turned people off ever dealing with them again. Whoever picks the titles to finance and publish does a fantastic job of it, though, I must say.

1c/Maddox Games, on the other hand .. am I understanding you correctly? They're releasing a free, robustly tested patch which not only fixes bugs and adds the planes listed on the CD manual, but a whole pile more .. and this shows that they don't care for their customers? :&gt;

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

crazyivan1970
04-21-2004, 04:02 PM
I just want to make one thing clear. Dev team doesn`t own explanation to any of us. Please keep that in mind. Olegs presence on this forums is rather extraordinary. I hope everyone understands and appriciates it.

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/coop-ivan.jpg

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/vfc/home.htm

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

LW_Icarus
04-21-2004, 04:04 PM
Clint, I think you are very wrong.

yes I understand software development and deadlines,although I write no code.but honestly, how hard is it to patch the dedicated server software or adjust the netcode so I can host? I'm thinking not very long. I know someone said that they were holding ded server for after patch so it could be compatible, but couldnt they make so we could fly in the months after the expansion. months. uncalled for.

remember. the most important part of any business is its customers. if I treated customers at my job the way I perceive Im being treated by Ubi, Id be fired. seriously, Support wont aknowledge my emails even.

LW_Icarus
04-21-2004, 04:08 PM
And again, I believe 1C/Maddox is not to blame for this, I believe they wouldve held aces till it was done, and dedicated server was ready, and we'd all be happier.

Lock on is the only other gamethat i know of where you can talk to dev team members. it is nice

Gryphonne
04-21-2004, 04:16 PM
Hmm, this is what somebody posted at SimHQ:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
New planes in 2.01beta6:

I-185 M-71 ('42)
I-185 M-82A ('42)
LaGG-3 (29 serija) ('42)
LaGG-3 (35 serija) ('42)
Spitfire Mk.IXc ('43)
Spitfire L.F. Mk.IXc (CW) ('43)
Spitfire Mk.IXe ('43)
Spitfire L.F. Mk.IXe (CW) ('43)
Spitfire H.F. Mk.IXe ('43)
Yak-3P ('45)
Yak-7A ('41)
Yak-9B ('44)
Yak-9M ('43)
Yak-9UT ('45)


Fw-190A6 ('43)
I.A.R. 81A ('40)
Hawk 75A-3 ('38)
Hawk 75A-4 ('38)

AI planes:
B-25C-25NA ('41)
B-25G-1NA ('43)
B-25H-1NA ('43)
B-25J-1NA ('42)


New desert and 8 types of empty map (just flat landscape with few air bases, no rivers or anything else on it, 3 are winter maps). Me-163 now take's off without problem. Even height meter in Bf110 works now! BK3.7 is now firing straight ahead, but 110 has lost twin MG151s when you chose BK3.7!
Sadly still no sign of flyable Tu-2 and Pe-2/3:-(( <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Regards,

Gryphon

RiesenSchnauzer
04-21-2004, 04:17 PM
I like the fact that on the LOMAC site they keep everybody abreast of current patch progress when it comes to fixes. While some people argue that it doesn't make a difference, one practical aspect of telling everybody what specific fixes are being made is that people know whether or not to bring up a particular bug or problem they are having. If it is already on the list then it is no longer necessary. I think that info. would cut the number of threads on these boards in half. It would also eliminate all of the "when is the patch out?" type threads.

As far as new planes go, though, I think CrazyIvan makes a good point that a little element of surprise is more fun.

clint-ruin
04-21-2004, 04:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LW_Icarus:
Clint, I think you are very wrong.

yes I understand software development and deadlines,although I write no code.but honestly, how hard is it to patch the dedicated server software or adjust the netcode so I can host? I'm thinking not very long. I know someone said that they were holding ded server for after patch so it could be compatible, but couldnt they make so we could fly in the months after the expansion. months. uncalled for.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is the dedicated server an advertised feature anywhere? Why is it owed to you?

Releasing a 'quick fix' 2.00 dedicated server would indeed be possible. It would also be very likely that upon releasing that, an entirely new revision would need to be developed and tested for version 2.01. So now two entire development and testing cycles are required for the same piece of code, the first one only to be used by online internet gamers for a matter of weeks. This also takes coding and testing and project management resources away from finalising the 2.01 DS and patch.

You may wish to look up the term "zero sum game".


http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

LW_Icarus
04-21-2004, 04:28 PM
You of course are right, because you believe you are.

I of course am wrong because you say I am.

I shouldnt be able to fly online, since that is why I have this particular title.

you are wrong because you liken us to children, in the back seat of a car.sorry I didnt quote the statement, but when I wrote it you had no other post in this thread.

VFA-195 Snacky
04-21-2004, 04:29 PM
I really hope that one day we can get rid of the Publisher all together and just deal directly with the programmers and developers.

http://www.x-plane.org/users/531seawolf/Corsairs.jpg

Chuck_Older
04-21-2004, 06:05 PM
Woof! Woof Woof Woof!

*****************************
The hillsides ring with, "Free the People",
Or can I hear the echoes from the days of '39?
~ Clash

h009291
04-21-2004, 06:44 PM
[/QUOTE]

That almost sounds simply like a bad connection. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

That's the first I've heard of that "bug".

[/QUOTE]

1. Bad connection? 640 kb/sec Upload / 1.5 MB/sec Download?

errr .. yeah right. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif

2. Never heard of this before? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif
You never play COOPS? You never have lined up in a line of AI's / Humans? Try it sometime.

It has been all related to that stupid "Speedcheck Cheat" option that never did do anything. Get rid of it.

3. Fly VEF / VOW or any online Virtual war ... You will see.

Purely DF server jumper or Offliner you are obviously http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif

http://www.medals.org.uk/united-kingdom/images/uk654.jpg

Bolt40
04-21-2004, 06:51 PM
Bump what he said , As far as coming back to a sim like IL2 , I've talked to too many folks who hated it , for the same reasons listed above , maybe the IL2 team can get off their high horse & follow in the same path like other Sim's & let folks who have stuck with & splurged the money for all 3 IL2 games Pass on some info on the patch , I don't like surprises , I like to know what's going to be added & the bugs that will be fixed , we've given you $100.00 ( more or less ) for all 3 games , the LEAST you can do is give us info on the patch..I find it odd you send us updates on the Pac Fighter Sim & BoB ..but nothing in a simple request for the AEP patch / add-on ..wanna keep your investors happy ? keep them informed ... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/10.gif

_VR_ScorpionWorm
04-21-2004, 07:07 PM
Not to sound cruel but, have any of your whiners http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif actually beta tested a game or a patch? The testing is there for a purpose, to catch new bugs, if we get no developments then beta testers are working hard to find everything they can.

I for one would like a bug free patch and not have it rushed by gamers who want the patch that bad. Im enjoying the game the way it is bugs and all....I know they will get fixed in the future. Suprises or not we should be so lucky that we get any developments at all considering the way the attitude of some of the community members act. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Anyways Im not trying to sound too negative just expresing my opinion regarding this matter. If this offends you I appologise for it, thats not what my intentions are. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"We went like this, He went like that, I said to Hollywood 'Where'd he go?', Hollywood said, 'Where'd WHO go'-TOPGUN

VW-IceFire
04-21-2004, 07:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ScorpionWorm1:
Not to sound cruel but, have any of your whiners http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif actually beta tested a game or a patch? The testing is there for a purpose, to catch new bugs, if we get no developments then beta testers are working hard to find everything they can.

I for one would like a bug free patch and not have it rushed by gamers who want the patch that bad. Im enjoying the game the way it is bugs and all....I know they will get fixed in the future. Suprises or not we should be so lucky that we get any developments at all considering the way the attitude of some of the community members act. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Anyways Im not trying to sound too negative just expresing my opinion regarding this matter. If this offends you I appologise for it, thats not what my intentions are. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"We went like this, He went like that, I said to Hollywood 'Where'd he go?', Hollywood said, 'Where'd WHO go'-TOPGUN<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You shouldn't have offended anyone. You are right on there with what you said. Its entirely reasonable and acceptable. Well said http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

h009291
04-21-2004, 08:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Not to sound cruel but, have any of your whiners actually beta tested a game or a patch? The testing is there for a purpose, to catch new bugs, if we get no developments then beta testers are working hard to find everything they can.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They should have taken your advice before they released AEP then .. huh?? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.medals.org.uk/united-kingdom/images/uk654.jpg

Future-
04-21-2004, 08:56 PM
@ Scorpionworm: Though I ge the feeling that I'm repeating myself... actually we don't want the patch rushed, or a release date.

We just want to know what's going on. That's all. Please re-read this thread (if you like), you might have missed the point of this on your first pass http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .

@ All: By the way, I'm quite glad to see that we managed to keep things mostly civil here... carry on gentlemen!

S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

Snyde-Dastardly
04-21-2004, 08:57 PM
Ya know I was gonna post something in here but,,Theres way to much crying goin on.
I dont think anyone could hear it

http://img21.photobucket.com/albums/v62/Vic-Whiplash/GRDN.bmp

Future-
04-21-2004, 09:04 PM
@ h009291: You got a point there... though I don't know who decided to release AEP when it was released, there's somehting I heard that's quite interesting:

I think Oleg once said that the bug with the Me-163's engine (for example) was accidently placed in the game shortly before it went out for mass production. So I wonder what they were doing that could have caused such a bug, especially since the testing phase for the release version of AEP most obviously was over at that time.
Plus the timeout bug and the overall problems with he new anti-cheat routines weren't detected as well by neither the beta testers nor the dev team - 'cause judgingfrom Oleg's reaction when we brought those problemsup,they were actually new to him.


S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

h009291
04-21-2004, 10:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Future-:
@ h009291: You got a point there...

... So I wonder what they were doing that could have caused such a bug,

.... weren't detected as well by neither the beta testers nor the dev team
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't get me wrong ... I spend more time playing this thing than I should. That speaks volumes how good it is. BUT ... I bought AEP .. like I bought the original IL2 and FB.

I as well as others that bought it have a RIGHT to b!tch and complain. We payed for that right.

The warp bug that causes the AI to slide into the lineup of other planes (in COOP missions and the like), it is completely unacceptable that this wasnt fixed ASAP with a Quick Fix patch release. Much like that .dll sound file release that "fixed" most of the on-line timeouts that plauged the game out of the box.

http://www.medals.org.uk/united-kingdom/images/uk654.jpg

BpGemini
04-22-2004, 01:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by h009291:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>That almost sounds simply like a bad connection. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

That's the first I've heard of that "bug".

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. Bad connection? 640 kb/sec Upload / 1.5 MB/sec Download?

errr .. yeah right. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/88.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I didn't say you HAD a bad connection. Read again. I'll use crayon if you need me to.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by h009291:
2. Never heard of this before? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif
You never play COOPS? You never have lined up in a line of AI's / Humans? Try it sometime.

It has been all related to that stupid "Speedcheck Cheat" option that never did do anything. Get rid of it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Co-ops vs Humans = Fun
Co-ops vs AI = No challenge

To each his own.
I was under the immpression that one of the sound file fixs helped eleviate the bug that was brought on by the 'Speed HACK cheat' fix.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by h009291:
3. Fly VEF / VOW or any online Virtual war ... You will see.

Purely DF server jumper or Offliner you are obviously http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/35.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only fly offline when testing one of my maps. Other than that I never fly Offline. I DO however stick with Human opponents as they offer a MUCH better challenge.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Btw, it's funny how you're posting "They should have taken your advice before they released AEP then .. huh??" and then turning around and offering the opinion that they should hurry with the patch! You fail to see the irony eh?

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/52.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.blitzpigs.com/images/P-39_BlitzPig_Sig_01.jpg
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

CWoS FB forum. More Cheese, Less Whine. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=25)

TacticalYak3
04-22-2004, 01:21 PM
Personally, I think the IL-2 community is showing a lot more patience then in previous patch delays.

I agree with the Mod regarding his comments concerning Oleg's forum participation, yet I believe when AEP was being released there was promise/indication by someone official (who I can't remember) that the patch would be released when AEP was released in Europe (because the bugs were known by the development team but too late to include before the North American release).

We're fortunate to get patches, though this is not a one-way relationship. If bugs are not corrected then any game will eventually lose it's appeal and marketability.

What impresses me the most is Oleg's personal commitment and zeal for this WW-2 flight sim, not necessarily the release of patches.

Finally, when I did read that the patch would be released shortly after AEP hit the stores, I thought why would they promise this after what happened with the other delayed patches? I could only conclude that it must be true.

Of course we'll wait until the patch is completed, and most will be happy. Just still not sure why the promise concerning the patch was made. It would have been much better not to have committed on a specific release date in my opinion mates.

Regards,
TactS!

‚"Throughout the story of air fighting runs the quest for height, for the fighter on top had control of the air battle.‚"Ě (Air Vice-Marshal J.E. ‚"Johnnie‚"Ě Johnson, RAF)

:FI:TacticalS!

kalo456
04-22-2004, 01:38 PM
Just wanted to say I agree with Future. I have posted many times regarding just getting some updated info. Just once a week or once every 2 weeks. In the Dev updates all we get are screenshots. Thats cool but it leaves alot to be desired when you are really anticipating fixes for a product you love and also paid for. I think (wanted to say know, but) we are mostly all intelligent people that play sims. We understand delays happen, we understand quality vs. quickness. I am cool with all the above, but if your customers ask to read bug reports and such from the Beta patches, what's the problem? It probably takes longer to format pictures and post those up than it would to compile some reports into text files and make those available. As far as suprising me goes, well yeah suprises are fun, but not when they relate to my favorite game!!!!! lol

As some one posted, I think we are all handling this like gentlemen. Perhaps the Dev team can meet us half way?

Kalo

Future-
04-23-2004, 03:39 AM
A big BUMP!!!! for this worthy cause.

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

Future-
04-23-2004, 07:29 PM
Since the latest dev update also lacks updates on AEP (as it can be commented here: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=23110283&m=138106073 ), I'm giving this another BUMP!, with the request tomake this thread sticky, or at least to bring this to the developer's attention.

S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

Franzen
04-23-2004, 07:55 PM
I don't blame them for not giving much info or plane lists. What if they did so and the beta testers found something really wrong, and had to take out a plane for further devlopment to be given in the following patch? Can you imagine the whining there after? He he he, it's for our own good, and when we grow up we'll thank them for it. Until then, we just have to trust them and be patient. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz Franzen

Future-
04-23-2004, 09:14 PM
If they would have to take out a plane, they could tell us they do and tell us why they do it. And most whines would be prevented.

S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

Franzen
04-23-2004, 09:28 PM
Future, you are either too optomistic or new to this forum. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz Franzen

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-23-2004, 09:49 PM
I'm all for surprises.

I'll wait, but not patiently. I need to go to the firing range...or kick my cat...or something



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/il2sig2.jpg

Future-
04-23-2004, 10:09 PM
@ Franzen: I was born optimistic http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Seriously, whines are also fueled by lack of information. But if there's an explanation WHY this and that was done, then it should be ok for most people.


@ Thunderbolt: Maybe this will help you:
http://home.satx.rr.com/amber/catinfan.wmv
Enjoy! You even might wanna try this with your cat... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/59.gif

S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://www.310thvfs.com , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

GK.
04-23-2004, 10:52 PM
i hear there will be a flyable mitchell bomber and that is the reason for the patch delay.

http://data.photodump.com/gk/shidensig.jpg
*Proud Chute Shooter*
"P40's can't out run the zero, so we'll have to outfly them." -Ben Affleck

clint-ruin
04-23-2004, 11:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GK.:
i hear there will be a flyable mitchell bomber and that is the reason for the patch delay.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could you tell us where you heard that and who from? I don't really think there's much call for setting up the ORR rumourmill at this point.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg