View Full Version : Possible "remedies" for Revenge troubles

04-26-2017, 08:58 AM
There are some possibilities of changes, or remedies to how some of the basic functions of combat may be altered while in Revenge mode -- which could aid those having trouble with it, not by way of just massively increasing base stats, but by way of increasing the potential rewards of skillful play.

In the end, what people hated about the "old-revenge" is that it provides an advantage in a "brute-strength" style that makes it quite frustrating for the opponent to handle under normal circumstances. If a system must provide advantages, you make it so they aid the efficiency of your actions, not boost every stat so it makes it irrelevant whatever your actions are and simply cream the other guy. Conversely, this "no-brainer" method of increasing odds of survival (by way of simply killing everything that attacks you :rolleyes:) is the reason why the so-called "revenge whiners" appear en masse in these boards. It's basically easymode.

That being said, there could be different types of changes, ones that aid you not by just giving you crazy high damage resistance and stupid levels of attack damage as if yu were using a trainer tool in some singleplayer game. There are a few methods which I've considered the possibility of which could aid the player survive a bit easier -- provided, if the player shows at least some amount of basic skill to utilize it.

1. Changes to Revival mechanics
- changes involving Revival mechanics, as described in the following post:

"Devs: Potential problems with "ganks" and revival mechanics"

2. Better protection at initial activation
- IMO, this I view to be an oversight on part of the devs. Revenge mode, during activation sequence, seems to be tagged/flagged as a type of a block, which if contacted will knock the attacker down.

- The existance of this knockdown mechanic pretty much makes it clear that the devs intended timed revenge activation as a type of a counter to incoming attacks from all directions, and provide an temporary opening for the lone defender to exploit and land hits to knocked enemies.

- The problem is that this activation sequence is vulnerable, and I mean TOTALLY vulnerable against UBs. It's even more vulnerable than usual because revenge activation roots you in place

- The result is that the mechanic of revenge activation that's supposed to give you some initiative == to try and even out the odds even for a little bit at the start of revenge == actually makes you more vulnerable and helpless to enemy attacks PROVIDED there's a typical UB spamming class (Lawbs.. Shugs.. WLs.. Wards.. Conqs..etc..) among your assailants. This is undeniably COUNTER INTUITIVE

- Honestly, Lawb or Shug players of some competency know what I'm talking about. With these classes, THEY ACTUALLY ANTICIPATE AND WANT the focused opponent to use revenge, to make him waste it. Wait for flash, and "flip the pancake", so to speak. :rolleyes: C'mon Lawb players, you know, I know. :)

- One possible, circumstantial evidence that the devs may not have intended this, is that there are actually bugs associated with being hit by UBs during revenge activation. While at low stamina, and just as you activate revenge, you are hit by the Lawb pancake... and it exhausts you when you're supposed to have full stamina. To me, this signifies a situation where the devs did not expect this to happen, and therefore didn't think about the results that would ensue when someone lands a UB at the moment == hence, the contradictory situation where you're seeing grey and exhausted when you are in revenge mode.


- Revenge ACTIVATION animation sequence, is protected against incoming UBs, and knock down the assailant just as with any other incoming skill.

Still vulnerable against UBs DURING revenge, but nothing should disrupt the base intent and function of the fire-up sequence itself.

3.Crowd Control

- One of the most important action when fighting multiple assailants, even in real life (if you cannot avoid it), is crowd control.

- It is very important to move and position yourself, and try as much as possible to keep enemies overlapping each other's LOS(line of sight), but in general, aside from this, and parries and GB-throws knocking the opponent down, crowd control options are severely limited in FH.


- Successful CGB knocks down the opponent
- When opponents come into contact with the opponent you have CGBd, they are also knocked down.
- When opponents come into contact with another opponent that has been GB-thrown by you, they are also knocked down
- When opponents come into contact with another opponent being swiveld around by your GB-direction change, they are staggered and pushed back
- When opponents are GBd, and swiveled around by you, they receive FULL FF DAMAGE.

These are all interesting suggestions IMO that could significantly increase the 'mindgames' portion of FH during revenge-combat, and also quite immersive, if I do say so myself. First suggestion is basically a reward to a successful CGB.. and the lord knows surrounding assailants can't get enough of it when you are in revenge. If you are skilled enough to CGB the opponent's GB attempt, just as with a successful parry during revenge, it will knock them down. Not only that, but also if they come into contact with someone else while being knocked down, it will knock them down as well.

This basic crowd control will apply to GB-position change mechanics as well, and especially since the UI provided by revenge increases your chances of landing an unavoidable GB on the opponent significantly, it will be a useful defense mechanic to use. Multiple enemies around? Grab one and throw them to his friends, knock 'em down, and decide if you want to ZA them, or use the opportunity to run.

I'd especially be interested to see how the "human shield" mechanic works out -- when you grab and swivel someone around, they will receive normal FF damage -- which implies that when one of their teammates is grabbed by you, at least for a moment, they would hesitate and stay their blade. ...or they'd just attack anyway and kill you along with their friend :rolleyes:... whichever scenario sounds both interesting to me.

I don't think this is too penalizing for the assailant's side, as control of a nearby enemy and using them as shields, objects, deterrents to save yourself from incoming blows is a tactic/technique practiced bt many marshall arts in real life as well.


Basically, these 3 suggestions, changes, would be what I would do, to help it make easier for people having problems with revenge. One might notice that it's mostly about defensive techniques, way to manipulate your opponents surrounding you, to increase odds of survival, rather than just kill all of them with one~two shots and bask in your glory.. All of the suggestions require basic skill and judgement to use effectively, instead of just flat-out, idiotic, massive stat increase into a "cheat mode".

"...3 guys surround me. I activate revenge. As I activate it the Lawbringer tries to pancake me, but it knocks him down. Second guy comes at me, I immediately switch target to him. He swings. I decide to clench my teeth and take the hit, so I can GB him. I swing him around and throw him at the third guy, both of them fall to the ground. I throw a ZA to damage them. The Lawb is back up, he tries to GB me, I CGB him, he falls again. The two other guys are getting back up, the Lawb is down.. what should I do? Not much time left in revenge, I decide to run...while they are all down"

If it's this kind of a revenge mode sotry, rather than something like this...

"...3 guys surround me. I activate revenge. They attack me. It tickles. I mash heavies and ZAs. Some of it connects. I kill them all. I win"

...then I can dig it.