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Mitlov47
02-26-2004, 11:47 AM
I've developed a liking for the Airacobra, because of its excellent weapons (a combination of big punch and relatively small nose shake). I'm still working on figuring out how best to dogfight with it, though. Suggestions? Is this a plane I can turn-and-burn with, or should I B&Z, or what?

Mitlov47
02-26-2004, 11:47 AM
I've developed a liking for the Airacobra, because of its excellent weapons (a combination of big punch and relatively small nose shake). I'm still working on figuring out how best to dogfight with it, though. Suggestions? Is this a plane I can turn-and-burn with, or should I B&Z, or what?

diomedes33
02-26-2004, 12:01 PM
I've found that the p39 is better b&z. When you turn you loose a lot of airpseed, then you go into crazy stall land. If you find yourself going slow either extend out and try to gain speed or drop combat flaps (saved my virtual life many times when down low)

P39 has a querky unrecoverable flat spin that you have to watch out for.

http://www.public.asu.edu/~guthriec/ubi_sig.jpg

flyingskid2
02-26-2004, 12:31 PM
i found that i like the p39 also, after i tried it a couple of times. not a very fast plane but good maneuverability. I like it especially for good front and up views, good firepower, and good taxiing views. Ki-84 was my previous fav plane but i just hate that cockpit frame that runs along the top of the canopy. Hides bogeys right where they would be if you were pulling into them.

tttiger
02-26-2004, 12:35 PM
Best use for a P-39?

Boat anchor, maybe http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

VW-IceFire
02-26-2004, 12:51 PM
Treat the P-39 like a BNZ fighter with the possibility of following some fighters into a turn fight if you are absolutely confident in the P-39's controls...any slip up and you'll stall or flat spin.

The firepower is also condusive to BNZ since a single or pair of 37mm hits can be deadly....and the nose mounted .50 cals have more firepower than are normally given credit for.

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RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

Cardinal25
02-26-2004, 01:00 PM
The P-39 is an Energy fighter. Part BnZ, Part T&B.

-----------------------------
CWoS. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php)

92nd Fighter Group (http://www.92ndfg.com)

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Mitlov47
02-26-2004, 01:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diomedes33:
P39 has a querky unrecoverable flat spin that you have to watch out for.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As a I-16 pilot, there are three things that I do not fear:
1) The Fascist Invader
2) Brutal winters
3) Spins

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

---------------------------
I fly the I-16 because it's like a Welsh Corgi with razor-sharp teeth.

I fly the Yak-9K because I have a sick, sick sense of humor.

Mitlov47
02-26-2004, 01:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cardinal25:
The P-39 is an Energy fighter. Part BnZ, Part T&B.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What exactly does "energy fighter" mean? I've heard the term a lot but I don't understand it.

---------------------------
I fly the I-16 because it's like a Welsh Corgi with razor-sharp teeth.

I fly the Yak-9K because I have a sick, sick sense of humor.

diomedes33
02-26-2004, 01:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EMitton:
What exactly does "energy fighter" mean? I've heard the term a lot but I don't understand it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's the way I understand it, somebody correct me if I'm wrong. From physics total energy is the sum of potential and kinetic energy. Potential energy is proportional to the height of the ground and Kinetic energy is proportional to your velocity.

high and fast is the high energy state -- good
low and slow is low energy state -- bad

Energy fighting is maneuervering so that you bleed the least energy possible while making your opponent loose more energy to gain the advantage.

When you have a sufficient energy advantage you can pull maneuvers that you're opponent can not follow you in. Which will either allow you to drop in on thier six or they will crash.

The hard part is judging energy states and determining when you have the advantage. Also knowing what maneuvers will be best to create an energy gap in your favor.

http://www.public.asu.edu/~guthriec/ubi_sig.jpg

flyingskid2
02-26-2004, 01:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EMitton:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cardinal25:
The P-39 is an Energy fighter. Part BnZ, Part T&B.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What exactly does "energy fighter" mean? I've heard the term a lot but I don't understand it.

---------------------------
I fly the I-16 because it's like a Welsh Corgi with razor-sharp teeth.

I fly the Yak-9K because I have a sick, sick sense of humor.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


don't worry about it. if you fly the I-16 (which i also love btw), you don't need to know about energy fighting.

Chuck_Older
02-26-2004, 02:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by diomedes33:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by EMitton:
What exactly does "energy fighter" mean? I've heard the term a lot but I don't understand it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's the way I understand it, somebody correct me if I'm wrong. From physics total energy is the sum of potential and kinetic energy. Potential energy is proportional to the height of the ground and Kinetic energy is proportional to your velocity.

high and fast is the high energy state -- good
low and slow is low energy state -- bad

Energy fighting is maneuervering so that you bleed the least energy possible while making your opponent loose more energy to gain the advantage.

When you have a sufficient energy advantage you can pull maneuvers that you're opponent can not follow you in. Which will either allow you to drop in on thier six or they will crash.

The hard part is judging energy states and determining when you have the advantage. Also knowing what maneuvers will be best to create an energy gap in your favor.

http://www.public.asu.edu/~guthriec/ubi_sig.jpg
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd say that's about right. One addition is that if you are a good energy fighter, you can still enter and win a fight when you have an energy disadvantage, because you aren't simply looking to gain energy, you are also denying your opponent energy.

*****************************
from the Hundred Years war to the Crimea, from the lance and the musket and the Roman spear, to all of the men who have stood with no fear, in the service of the King~ Clash

Tank50
02-26-2004, 02:54 PM
Keep your speed up at all times and learn to fight in the vertical. P-39 has excellent energy retention and excells in the zoom climb. Also has good roll rate and is highly manuverable. All this and one shot kill capability. For best results map weapons 1and2(cannon and MG) to a single trigger like many of the Soviets did. You can win many fights that are looping type encounters. The plane can also T n B if you have to, but you must master the stall recovery first. Also a good scissors craft due to superior roll rate. It's been my favorite ride since Il2.

SlickStick
02-26-2004, 03:22 PM
Also, checkout a guy named meina222 on UBI. He gives me a helluva run for my money in his P39 and can really turn that biatch well.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I love the P39-Q1. The latest page of the screenshot thread has a shot of my P39 whacking a Ki-84.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

For me, the .50s in the Q1 just seem more effective than say the P40s or P51s .50s. Plus, as I was sharing with a WUAF flyer today, there's no substitute for a one-shot wonder in your nose.http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

___________________________
çk"*¯k 2004

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BpGemini
02-26-2004, 03:34 PM
For the most part whether you B&Z or T&B has more to do with your opponent than the plane you're in. Learning maneuvers and all that other crap is nice but having a feel for your plane is the best asset you'll have. That includes gunnery. Pick a plane and practice. The Cobra is a nice choice. Strategies at the moment are the reality online.

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IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

ZG77_Nagual
02-26-2004, 05:07 PM
I consider the p39 one of the easiest planes to win in - it does everything well - it is more like downhill skiing than dirt biking in that you have to rely on aerodynamics and gravity but, well flown, it's a match for anything in the game. Of the planes I like to fly it's certainly the easiest to win in.

p1ngu666
02-26-2004, 06:42 PM
nah, do what i have, mg and cannon on main, then mg and cannon seporate http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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georgeo76
02-26-2004, 07:24 PM
take the Q-10, you'll find the extra performance worth the downgrade in armament. The strength of the cobra is that it is pretty good @ every everything, the weakness of it is that it dose nothing exceptionally.

your fighting style will vary based on the opponent, but in every engagement you will strive for a similar 'wining' environment. The '39 is @ it's best in close-in energy fights. What I mean by this, is that the engagement should be a mix of vertical and horizontal maneuvers, but w/o the opponents getting more than 2 K from each other.

Once you can develop this situation, you'll play your opponents weaknesses by exploiting your mediocrity. use a variety of maneuvers. Because the cobra dose everything pretty well, you'll have no problem engaging your opponent using maneuvers that he doesn't do well. (turn against a FW190, climb against an I16, separate vs. a hurri).

For gun solutions you should look for short 'kill shots'. The early version can hit targets from far away, but both the .303s and the cannon benefit from well-aimed, well-placed, and close-in shooting. The nose .50 are great for deflection shots and have an uncanny ability to seek out 109 engines.

The cobra is fragile and suffers from abrupt and deadly stalls. Beware the spray and prey opponent, because even minor MG damage to your exposed engine or wing-roots will shut you down. Know how to fly the cobra @ the edge of the envelope and memorize those limitations. Often your life will depend on your ability to 'feel' the plane.

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"I don't think it's quite fair to condemn a whole program because of a single slip-up. "
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Steaky_361st
02-26-2004, 08:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tttiger:
Best use for a P-39?

Boat anchor, maybe http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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-----------------------------------------------
Steaks
Cpt 375thFS
"And you thought the meat last night was tough..."

karost
02-27-2004, 12:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Originally posted by EMitton:
What exactly does "energy fighter" mean? I've heard the term a lot but I don't understand it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Energy Fighter concept
=======================

# The Energy Fighter realizes that all things being equal, the plane with the energy advantage is assured a victory. Thus, when he has an energy advantage, he makes sure to maintain it and/or increase it. And when he is at an energy disadvantage, he does all that he can to try to force the convergence of energy states between himself and his opponent.

# The Energy Fighter is willing to forgo a quick victory achieved by either grabbing a rapid but risky angular advantage or through clever actobatic flying. The Energy Fighter realizes that a kill gotten without exposing one's plane unnecessarily to risk after a number of turns is quite satisfactory


# The Energy Fighter realizes that every action involves energy loss and perhaps gain.To win via energy fighting requires the cumulative amnagement of energy through quite a number of different maneuvers. or may say "Energy Fighters win the fight one turn at a time".

# The Energy Fighter looks to achieve a workable energy advantage. This means that the Energy Fighter will tend to avoid switching into Angles Fighting until he has achieved enough of an advantage that he may press in for the kill. There is no point in trying to cash in a small energy advantage that leaves you stuck in lag pursuit. At the time you cash in, you want your energy advantage to carry you to your appoent's six giving you to a tracking,lead pulling gun shot.

## The Energy Fighter avoids dumping energy and rather looks to conserve it wherever possible.


## The Energy Fighter tends to maneuver in the vertical because he understands the concept of how such maneuvering can give good turn rates and energy conservation at the same time.

## The Energy Fighter will often dislodge himself and climb away from an opponent going down to retain his energy as opposed to trying to artificially slow himself down. The Energy Fighter knows that if he retains his energy advantage, then he should be able to reacquire his opponent's six.


from :Mark Kratzer who write "Markshot's STK/EAW:Shoot to Kill/European Air War"


ok now, form my stupid idea http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


p39 advantage in speed drive, H-turn , pull up faster then 109 ( but energy loss fast too ) try to keep p39 speed not lower 350 km/h while hunting

50. mg is good for deflection your target not to kill but to disable their control
then his maneuvering is slow so keep shot with .50 when get closer check your 6 too
wait him pass your gunsigh then finish him with 37mm if he along. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


but if you let 109 climb turning away over you out of .50 gun range and you still stupid climb following him ,he will keep climb turn and see you spin or stall then roll and drive back to eat you at the end.



p39 pilot in FB is very lucky because p39 in IL2 Sturmovik is harder to control and most terrible spin.


mainly I fly 109 and looking for target at 5-6k , if I see La5s,7 or HK at same lever or over my head I will drive away at 750 km/h for make saparation range but , I will NEVER AND NERVER LET P39 OR YAK OVER MY HEAD , if I see him drive over me that is too late to hope http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


I like .50 MG in p39,p51,p40 for deflection shoting and that is the first skill to improve


S!