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razabak10mm
04-25-2017, 03:59 PM
Playing on Xbox the other day trying the Herculean task of fulfilling all the Dominion orders without a constant stream of errors and DCs I decided to switch it up and moved on to fill the assasin order.

Knowing I haven't played a PK since campaign mode back at launch, I fully expected to quickly get destroyed for 5 matches then move back to my Raider.

The thing is, I didn't. In fact, I freaking walked around like the angel of death owning people like they were standing still. In every match I was 1st or 2nd at the end.

This is against players of all gear lvls and with knowing jack squat about how to play a PK. I didn't know any combos and couldn't even figure out how to do the triple stabby thing that's so annoying.

If my play style was kung fu you'd have to call it faceroll-button mash style. Yet I felt like an assembly line worker at a meat packing plant. They kept coming, and I kept carving them up.

Now I main a Raider and have played enough where I am at least competent with him. Most would probably say I still need to git gud though. But playing a PK was like a whole different game. It's God mode. I was wondering if I had accidentally entered some sort of cheat code.

How deadly/OP is she if she's your main and you actually know how to play even a little bit? Wow, way worse than I thought.

If you main a PK and don't own the board every time you play you should be embarrassed. If you die even once from a Raider, you should probably just move on to a different game. You might want to consider quitting video games altogether. They're probably just not your thing.



Dirteh Raider for life.

Devils-_-legacy
04-25-2017, 04:03 PM
Playing on Xbox the other day trying the Herculean task of fulfilling all the Dominion orders without a constant stream of errors and DCs I decided to switch it up and moved on to fill the assasin order.

Knowing I haven't played a PK since campaign mode back at launch, I fully expected to quickly get destroyed for 5 matches then move back to my Raider.

The thing is, I didn't. In fact, I freaking walked around like the angel of death owning people like they were standing still. In every match I was 1st or 2nd at the end.

This is against players of all gear lvls and with knowing jack squat about how to play a PK. I didn't know any combos and couldn't even figure out how to do the triple stabby thing that's so annoying.

If my play style was kung fu you'd have to call it faceroll-button mash style. Yet I felt like an assembly line worker at a meat packing plant. They kept coming, and I kept carving them up.

Now I main a Raider and have played enough where I am at least competent with him. Most would probably say I still need to git gud though. But playing a PK was like a whole different game. It's God mode. I was wondering if I had accidentally entered some sort of cheat code.

How deadly/OP is she if she's your main and you actually know how to play even a little bit? Wow, way worse than I thought.

If you main a PK and don't own the board every time you play you should be embarrassed. If you die even once from a Raider, you should probably just move on to a different game. You might want to consider quitting video games altogether. They're probably just not your thing.



Dirteh Raider for life.
the only thing a pk has is light spam the moment they get killed playing normal they turn to spam my as well be god mode lol no skill required for pk

Blasto95
04-25-2017, 04:10 PM
Playing on Xbox the other day trying the Herculean task of fulfilling all the Dominion orders without a constant stream of errors and DCs I decided to switch it up and moved on to fill the assasin order.

Knowing I haven't played a PK since campaign mode back at launch, I fully expected to quickly get destroyed for 5 matches then move back to my Raider.

The thing is, I didn't. In fact, I freaking walked around like the angel of death owning people like they were standing still. In every match I was 1st or 2nd at the end.

This is against players of all gear lvls and with knowing jack squat about how to play a PK. I didn't know any combos and couldn't even figure out how to do the triple stabby thing that's so annoying.

If my play style was kung fu you'd have to call it faceroll-button mash style. Yet I felt like an assembly line worker at a meat packing plant. They kept coming, and I kept carving them up.

Now I main a Raider and have played enough where I am at least competent with him. Most would probably say I still need to git gud though. But playing a PK was like a whole different game. It's God mode. I was wondering if I had accidentally entered some sort of cheat code.

How deadly/OP is she if she's your main and you actually know how to play even a little bit? Wow, way worse than I thought.

If you main a PK and don't own the board every time you play you should be embarrassed. If you die even once from a Raider, you should probably just move on to a different game. You might want to consider quitting video games altogether. They're probably just not your thing.



Dirteh Raider for life.

Are you trying to say Raider is bad? because if you are, that just shows how extremely uninformed you are about the current state of this game.

PK is strong yes, and OP on console. (probably still banned from tournaments on console) but shes has already been nerfed a little last patch, and her light spam which is the only OP thing about her now is being nerfed as well. So shes being addressed, you can stop complaining about her.

Raider, if played correctly, is one of the best heroes right now. PK is one of his weaknesses especially on console, but hes a very strong character if used properly. Unlocked, unparriable, unblock-able heavies and ZA, and ability to CGB while dodging. Theres a very good reason he is being used a very generous amount in tournaments.

kbvlcvfkhgc
04-25-2017, 04:16 PM
So so true, the PK is without doubt the choice of the coward,

When Ubisoft finally grow some and the PK finally gets nerfed to bring her within the same parameters governing all the other classes there is going to be a PK bloodbath,

i predict a mass quitting of PK's who come to the shocking realization that they are not in fact the gaming Gods that they believe themselves to be and that there is in fact more to winning a game than continuously spamming R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1,

the day of retribution is coming.

CandleInTheDark
04-25-2017, 04:41 PM
So so true, the PK is without doubt the choice of the coward,

When Ubisoft finally grow some and the PK finally gets nerfed to bring her within the same parameters governing all the other classes there is going to be a PK bloodbath,

i predict a mass quitting of PK's who come to the shocking realization that they are not in fact the gaming Gods that they believe themselves to be and that there is in fact more to winning a game than continuously spamming R1 R1 R1 R1 R1 R1,

the day of retribution is coming.

Except not all of us do this, I will be unaffected by the light spam nerf because I don't light spam. Streamers like to say we do, it's a popular thing to say, keeps their views up. Can't speakfor everyone but pk was my main before I even got the game, let alone knew what she could do, dual wielding knight assassin, pretty much all I needed to know.

Alustar.exe
04-25-2017, 04:49 PM
Except not all of us do this, I will be unaffected by the light spam nerf because I don't light spam. Streamers like to say we do, it's a popular thing to say, keeps their views up. Can't speakfor everyone but pk was my main before I even got the game, let alone knew what she could do, dual wielding knight assassin, pretty much all I needed to know.

I'm in the same boat here. I saw the tech demo for PK and knew where my time would be spent.

I did however check the forums and saw the light spam complaints and decided to check it out for validation. (I play on PS4) and much to my surprise(not really) the ones who really suffered from light spam were newer players.

More competent ones will wait for the second or third light hit, parry it and punish you. So instead I worked on my deflect and dash attack combos

razabak10mm
04-25-2017, 05:12 PM
"I never use cheese attacks" said every PK ever. Uh huh.

In a game of Rock Paper Scissors, PK is a hand grenade.

MasterChiefPON
04-25-2017, 05:15 PM
I'm in the same boat here. I saw the tech demo for PK and knew where my time would be spent.

I did however check the forums and saw the light spam complaints and decided to check it out for validation. (I play on PS4) and much to my surprise(not really) the ones who really suffered from light spam were newer players.

More competent ones will wait for the second or third light hit, parry it and punish you. So instead I worked on my deflect and dash attack combos

Nothing more satisfying than to parry a Peacekeeper's lights and throw a heavy at her face and watch her step back in realization like saying: well ****...

(At least on spammy ones that think they can just press R1 to win, a peacekeeper that faints and spams and mixes it up with zone attack cancel is hard to beat, especially with low stance change characters)

CandleInTheDark
04-25-2017, 05:16 PM
"I never use cheese attacks" said every PK ever. Uh huh.

In a game of Rock Paper Scissors, PK is a hand grenade.

I'll post the same I just did in the other one

Check my post history, even done some of the work for you.

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1622624-Peacekeeper-nerfs-are-counter-productive?p=12520573&viewfull=1#post12520573

The problem is they don't want to touch the speed (which with the lower fps on consoles affects them more than pcs) but as it is she has speed and damage and damage over time and can seemingly close to engage or get out of dodge at will. I have no problem with her being the best at combat in her range but because of the spam, people are not given any kind of chance to put her back in their range.

As I see it, I think there needs to be more time between chains (meaning she is quick but she has to set herself up to be precise) including when they cancel a chain in favour of starting another, this keeps her speed and gives a chance for guardbreak or a dodge to get back to neutral, her damage on her lights needs to come down (I would be happy with pre way of the shark passive nobushi damage assuming that is less) and she needs to be punishable when she is out of stamina rather than able to roll as far as she does. If they want her to be quick then she needs to be quick and precise which means encouraging her kit over mindlessly pressing light attack. But then people get salty over bleed as well so no idea what to do about that, I just know I have to work harder and take more risks than just using light and the analogue stick for that damage.

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1619892-Opinion-on-pk-changes?p=12511881&viewfull=1#post12511881

At the same time, spam does exist. The changes benefit my play style because I use deflects and look to use all four ways to get bleed.If they are sold on the speed then one or more of a few things might help.

Take down the damage per hit on both lights and heavies, if people can't react to spam then her damage per hit puts her damage per second as higher than most other characters in real terms(in that while their attacks do more, they are less likely to land them).

Increase the time between ending one chain, whether complete or not, and starting another, make the most attractive option finishing her chain with the risk of block and parry that entails rather than using the quickest attack over and over.

Increase the stamina per light both hit and blocked so that spam is less feasible.

While they want her speed high while she has stamina, nerf her disengage options while she is out of stamina, meaning dodges and rolls need to have less distance and need to be slower. Along with the fact assassins can't avoid falling down now that makes running out of stamina more punishable.

There was another point raised that with the lower fps, they need to look at balancing console and pc separately, it could be that is what causes some of the issues also.

I'm speaking as someone who wants to like the peacekeeper, and hey I have seen at least two people say light spam is boring, I agree with that, we need less spammy peacekeepers out there. Overall she needs to be able to punish over-aggression (deflects and such, to some degree her attack speed, the other person needs to get back into their range which at the same time they need a fair chance to do) but also she needs to have a playstyle of quick but precise attacks.

At what point in any of this am I saying light attack spam is good or advocating use of it? Or did you just come here salty because a peacekeeper beat you?


Nothing more satisfying than to parry a Peacekeeper's lights and throw a heavy at her face and watch her step back in realization like saying: well ****...

(At least on spammy ones that think they can just press R1 to win, a peacekeeper that faints and spams and mixes it up with zone attack cancel is hard to beat, especially with low stance change characters)

Exactly this, mostly I dodge for deep gouge, flick out a light, get some space, or I will cancel a heavy into guardbreak. More recently I started throwing in deep gouge, light-light-feint heavy-light-heavy in which case I just hit you with most of two chains and have used feints to be able to land my heavy-heavy chain.

MumfordDaHound
04-25-2017, 05:24 PM
I play an LB and when a pk sees me and starts to attack its lights all day, can be a rep 1 and they have a damn good chance to light me to death. If I play another character they don't seem to do it as much. It's a better fight all around, vs LB (console) its flippin rough.

Morta_17L
04-25-2017, 05:26 PM
I get hate mail about playing PK all the time on PC. The light spam was cheesy, but patch 1.06(lastest) didn't delay the opening light attack, which in my experience, is what fcks you up. You guys want to play turtle guard break games but that's what makes the PK strong against predictable cookie cutter streamer combos. She can dodge all your guard break spam and open up with devastating combos especially after a successful deflect. She's squishy AF tho and by making one mistake can lead to instant death. The light spam was cowardly, but if you have gone 3v1 against 1 PK and you plus your buddies got rekt....well...this patch didn't fix players being better than your three-step guard break combos.

But yes, you will see a lot of PK disappear from this patch because they relied heavily on on 1v1 light spam...which won't work anymore. Get ready, the Law Bringer salt will be the next debate for patching.

CandleInTheDark
04-25-2017, 05:29 PM
I get hate mail about playing PK all the time on PC. The light spam was cheesy, but patch 1.06(lastest) didn't delay the opening light attack, which in my experience, is what fcks you up. You guys want to play turtle guard break games but that's what makes the PK strong against predictable cookie cutter streamer combos. She can dodge all your guard break spam and open up with devastating combos especially after a successful deflect. She's squishy AF tho and by making one mistake can lead to instant death. The light spam was cowardly, but if you have gone 3v1 against 1 PK and you plus your buddies got rekt....well...this patch didn't fix players being better than your three-step guard break combos.

But yes, you will see a lot of PK disappear from this patch because they relied heavily on on 1v1 light spam...which won't work anymore. Get ready, the Law Bringer salt will be the next debate for patching.

Yeah another PK main and I were speculating that PK numbers would drop sharply after patch notes came out. I'll still be using her whatever comes nerf-wise, she was my main before I knew what she could do.

DrExtrem
04-25-2017, 05:34 PM
the only thing a pk has is light spam the moment they get killed playing normal they turn to spam my as well be god mode lol no skill required for pk

You need skill if you want to play her without light spam. ;)

MasterChiefPON
04-25-2017, 05:35 PM
Exactly this, mostly I dodge for deep gouge, flick out a light, get some space, or I will cancel a heavy into guardbreak. More recently I started throwing in deep gouge, light-light-feint heavy-light-heavy in which case I just hit you with most of two chains and have used feints to be able to land my heavy-heavy chain.

Yeah, that's hard to beat beacuse you have to choose what to parry, if you try to parry a faint thinking it was a light you have no time to cancel it and block the incoming light, if a peacekeeper trips you with a faint she can punish you very quickly.
And I agree with something you said that makes peacekeeper very strong and is that she can engage and disengage almost (sometimes you catch them with a gb) at will, she dodges so far and so fast that she can come close make damage drain almost all her stamina and back out to avoid your "turn", so you have to parry her in mid attack cycle (bad for you if you trip for a faint) and punish her or if she is more passive you have to faint and try to trip her up.

CandleInTheDark
04-25-2017, 05:36 PM
You need skill if you want to play her without light spam. ;)

Yeah I like to keep the bleed clock going, so deflects, soft cancel bleeds,deep gouge, guardbreak when I am close to them two seconds.


Yeah, that's hard to beat beacuse you have to choose what to parry, if you try to parry a faint thinking it was a light you have no time to cancel it and block the incoming light, if a peacekeeper trips you with a faint she can punish you very quickly.
And I agree with something you said that makes peacekeeper very strong and is that she can engage and disengage almost (sometimes you catch them with a gb) at will, she dodges so far and so fast that she can come close make damage drain almost all her stamina and back out to avoid your "turn", so you have to parry her in mid attack cycle (bad for you if you trip for a faint) and punish her or if she is more passive you have to faint and try to trip her up.

Yeah i do think that the fact she can disengage at will is a little much, not that I don't use it because I base most of my game around the dodge attack. I do think the light-light nerf will help some even with this though since it gives a chance for something to happen in between, though we will have to see how that works on both pc and console in practice.

DrExtrem
04-25-2017, 05:41 PM
Deflects are not easy and the enemy needs to either use heavy strikes or you need luck.
Soft cancel bleed need good timing and can be blocked iirc.
Deep gauge can only be used after a successful heavy strike.
Good players know how to counter guard break.

In short, your play style is difficult and counterable. If you can play this style successfully against average to good players, you have my respect.

CandleInTheDark
04-25-2017, 05:46 PM
Deflects are not easy and the enemy needs to either use heavy strikes or you need luck.
Soft cancel bleed need good timing and can be blocked iirc.
Deep gauge can only be used after a successful heavy strike.
Good players know how to counter guard break.

In short, your play style is difficult and counterable. If you can play this style successfully against average to good players, you have my respect.

Deflects come rarer as I have gone up higher levels though if someone is swinging heavies thoughtlessly and not feinting them they will suffer for it. The soft parry is a safer way of punishing heavy use, though with less reward and yeah if you are blocking the heavy you block the cancel, though it can screw with parry timing as it comes quicker. Deep gouge I get off dodge attacks which yes are very blockable because you will see me dodge and you have to get the timing right to get the light follow up off. And yes you have to work to get a guardbreak, they need to think the heavy you are feinting is going to be something else.I am nearly rep five so I have put a lot of time into her lol though I am throwing in berserker matches now to keep it fresh.

TwinStiletto
04-25-2017, 06:01 PM
Agreed that spamming Light Attacks is rather cowardly. A True Peacekeeper wouldn't need to spam. Use of combos and guerilla tactics are what make a deadly Peacekeeper.
True, spamming is a "legit strategy" but it doesn't make the gamer any more skilled. They just know that single set of moves.
I prefer hit and run tactics because the PK is squishy! Even with high Block Damage Resistance a good Kensei will still tear me apart if I miss one parry.
Tactics, creativity, and good sportsmanship are what makes games like this enjoyable.

Devils-_-legacy
04-25-2017, 06:06 PM
You need skill if you want to play her without light spam. ;)

Only seen light spam on ps4 I just hate pks the moment they lose they resort to light spam. Not a skilled player on ps4 then lol

Devils-_-legacy
04-25-2017, 06:10 PM
I get hate mail about playing PK all the time on PC. The light spam was cheesy, but patch 1.06(lastest) didn't delay the opening light attack, which in my experience, is what fcks you up. You guys want to play turtle guard break games but that's what makes the PK strong against predictable cookie cutter streamer combos. She can dodge all your guard break spam and open up with devastating combos especially after a successful deflect. She's squishy AF tho and by making one mistake can lead to instant death. The light spam was cowardly, but if you have gone 3v1 against 1 PK and you plus your buddies got rekt....well...this patch didn't fix players being better than your three-step guard break combos.

But yes, you will see a lot of PK disappear from this patch because they relied heavily on on 1v1 light spam...which won't work anymore. Get ready, the Law Bringer salt will be the next debate for patching.

Shouldn't be a debate if the devs know it's a instant win it's ment to be a game of skill not spam

cragar212
04-25-2017, 06:12 PM
Pk is very strong. Fastest attack in the game as well as the highest damage non stam punish in the game.

Pk and WL will dominate this patch.

I have no clue why they are so unwilling to knock these 2 characters down to A tier.

Netcode_err_404
04-25-2017, 06:54 PM
If they nerf light spam before adreessing defensive meta, the game will die.

razabak10mm
04-25-2017, 07:02 PM
I think it's hilarious to see all these PK apologists try to put up a defense with a bunch of game theory and rationalization.

The fact remains that a kindergartner could pick up a PK and wipe the floor with 90% of the player base.

Gray360UK
04-25-2017, 07:27 PM
The fact remains that a kindergartner could pick up a PK and wipe the floor with 90% of the player base.

Play all of the classes and you'll find that to be the case with most of them.

BananaBlighter
04-25-2017, 07:58 PM
Deflects are not easy and the enemy needs to either use heavy strikes or you need luck.
Soft cancel bleed need good timing and can be blocked iirc.
Deep gauge can only be used after a successful heavy strike.
Good players know how to counter guard break.

In short, your play style is difficult and counterable. If you can play this style successfully against average to good players, you have my respect.


In the past I would've said that deflecting is harder than parrying, and in a way it is, but on lights I find deflecting to be much easier. It's especially easy on the 2nd light of a combo, as I know WHEN an attack is about occur, just not from WHERE, so I can get my finger ready on the dodge button. For example, I have a lot of trouble parrying and even blocking the Valk's light light shield sweep, but I found that deflecting the 2nd light is actually much easier. On heavies I always parry unless they are a long-ranged character like the Nobushi.

Soft cancel bleed I have found is very useful against players who keep dodging. They avoid the heavy strike, but then the light catches them because it usually tracks. Even against people who side dash attack, this seems to interrupt them on occasion.

Yes, deep gouge can only be used after a successful heavy, but you'd be surprised how many dash attacks (including forward) you can get with the proper timing to punish an enemy's mistakes. If someone whiffs an attack, a regular old heavy is a good way to punish them too (tho those get blocked a lot unless you have perfect timing).

Yes good players can CGB, but even good players can't do so after a parry. Also the PK can feint a heavy into GB, and this can throw off even good players, especially when used in a combo.

I'm really excited for the next patch which will supposedly weaken her light spam, so then people can stop complaining about us, even the ones that rarely touch the L1 button. I use it on occasion, especially to stop a GB, but even when I do, I refrain from using the 2nd in the combo simply because the moment you do that it is seen as spamming. I wouldn't mind seeing the side dash attack go back to it's old damage tho, because I never feel like using it anymore.

Alustar.exe
04-25-2017, 08:45 PM
I think it's hilarious to see all these PK apologists try to put up a defense with a bunch of game theory and rationalization.

The fact remains that a kindergartner could pick up a PK and wipe the floor with 90% of the player base.

I think it's even funnier to hear the butt hurt even after the majority of PK mains in here have even said they will be glad the light spam will be toned down. Not to mention we've given free advice on how to deal with her. The fact that you aren't paying attention to that tells me all I need to know about how adaptable a player you are.

FootlessRhino
04-25-2017, 08:49 PM
Pk is very strong. Fastest attack in the game as well as the highest damage non stam punish in the game.

Pk and WL will dominate this patch.

I have no clue why they are so unwilling to knock these 2 characters down to A tier.

lol, why are you saying PK will dominate on a patch that's nerfing her? and what is "the highest damage non stam punish"?

razabak10mm
04-25-2017, 09:13 PM
I think it's even funnier to hear the butt hurt even after the majority of PK mains in here have even said they will be glad the light spam will be toned down. Not to mention we've given free advice on how to deal with her. The fact that you aren't paying attention to that tells me all I need to know about how adaptable a player you are.

Go back to the top post. I explained how easy it was for me as a mediocre player to pick up a PK with no experience and dismantle most players. I wasn't even light spamming till I was blue in the face.

But by all means keep whining. My Raider is fueled by PK tears.

Alustar.exe
04-25-2017, 09:34 PM
Go back to the top post. I explained how easy it was for me as a mediocre player to pick up a PK with no experience and dismantle most players. I wasn't even light spamming till I was blue in the face.

But by all means keep whining. My Raider is fueled by PK tears.

Your original post says you don't played PK before, now you say you had no experience? Which is it? Secondly, if you've been playing other characters you already have a leg up on most other fresh players in that you already know inherent game mechanics.
So really you are doing well with your PK because you now know the game better.

razabak10mm
04-25-2017, 09:51 PM
I don't think you actually read it. Go, try again. Maybe read it it slower this time so you don't get so confused.

Alustar.exe
04-25-2017, 10:03 PM
Knowing I haven't played a PK since campaign mode back at launch...


Go back to the top post. I explained how easy it was for me as a mediocre player to pick up a PK with no experience and dismantle most players. I wasn't even light spamming till I was blue in the face...

So here's proof that you don't have any consistency. Next time think before you talk **** about others not reading. Instead maybe you should work on your own information retention since it seems you can't even get your own stories straight.

razabak10mm
04-25-2017, 10:45 PM
So playing through the campaign is all it takes to master the PK?

I guess you kinda just proved my point for me. Thanks.

cragar212
04-25-2017, 10:58 PM
lol, why are you saying PK will dominate on a patch that's nerfing her? and what is "the highest damage non stam punish"?

She isn't getting nerfed unless you are a LA spammer. No decent pk is a LA spammer.

Two other S tier classes (Shug, Warden) received nerfs knocking them down to A tier.

Off a GB she can do more damage then any other class in the game if the opponent isn't out of stamina (2 stabs, wall stun, heavy lunge, stab)

Alustar.exe
04-25-2017, 11:17 PM
So playing through the campaign is all it takes to master the PK?

I guess you kinda just proved my point for me. Thanks.

Please tell me where I said anything about mastering anything particularly where PK is concerned? Here I'll help you out:


I think it's even funnier to hear the butt hurt even after the majority of PK mains in here have even said they will be glad the light spam will be toned down. Not to mention we've given free advice on how to deal with her. The fact that you aren't paying attention to that tells me all I need to know about how adaptable a player you are.


Your original post says you haven't played PK before, now you say you have no experience? Which is it? Secondly, if you've been playing other characters you already have a leg up on most other fresh players in that you already know inherent game mechanics.
So really you are doing well with your PK because you now know the game better.

Do to clarify I'm saying you going in now after having played the class through the campaign and then gone through multiplayer as one(or more) classes, only to switch it up and try out PK for a little while.
Do you want to know why you performed well? Probably because as you stated you are a moderately skilled player. Then you pick up the fastest hero in the game currently and run it for ****s and giggles.
That is like a professional NASCAR racer taking a Bugatti out for a test drive, tearing through downtown in record time then shrugging saying it was all because the car.
No one is denying light spam needs to be looked at (Candle, Grey and myself all main PK and agree it isn't cool)
So how about you do something other than dodging real topics and talking points and ending your comments with a half baked attempt at a snide tongue and cheek "zinger" thinking you've actually won a debate.

Alustar.exe
04-25-2017, 11:25 PM
She isn't getting nerfed unless you are a LA spammer. No decent pk is a LA spammer.

Two other S tier classes (Shug, Warden) received nerfs knocking them down to A tier.

Off a GB she can do more damage then any other class in the game if the opponent isn't out of stamina (2 stabs, wall stun, heavy lunge, stab)

Except you are forgetting that is blockable/counterable. That's a combo. And every part of that can technically be blocked, even the stabs from guard break. While heavier classes like kensei and raider have UB moves that do massive damage in one blow.
It balances out.

ArlianDeBias
04-25-2017, 11:45 PM
God forbid people use their characters to their advantage and defeat PK using their characters own kit.

No, we should just nerf PK into the ground so that novice players can easily defeat her and feel good about themselves.

ScottJund
04-25-2017, 11:54 PM
Except you are forgetting that is blockable/counterable. That's a combo. And every part of that can technically be blocked, even the stabs from guard break. While heavier classes like kensei and raider have UB moves that do massive damage in one blow.
It balances out.

What are you talking about? If you get parried, you are going to get guard broken, stabbed twice, thrown into a wall, heavy lunged, and final bleed stabbed by any PK who knows what he is doing. You cannot stop that. You cannot block the stabs from a guard break. PK's parry punish is the best in the game, not including OOS punish.

cragar212
04-25-2017, 11:56 PM
Except you are forgetting that is blockable/counterable. That's a combo. And every part of that can technically be blocked, even the stabs from guard break. While heavier classes like kensei and raider have UB moves that do massive damage in one blow.
It balances out.

Uhm. There is/was a glitch that allowed you to block pk stabs only if you were playing an assasin also. You have to notice her guard stance prior to her GBing you. You then have to manage to time the block which is hard asf. You almost never even see the top players in the world do it in tournaments. The attack when your wall stunned is unreactable cause you're stunned...


*edit* here is a vid. I think they fixed the glitch though anyways. As you can see the guy says the timing is really tough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng8EzH5JWyQ

Gray360UK
04-26-2017, 12:03 AM
Off a GB she can do more damage then any other class in the game if the opponent isn't out of stamina (2 stabs, wall stun, heavy lunge, stab)

I'm pretty sure any class can knock you into a wall and stun you and then hit you with a heavy while you are stunned. Many can do it far easier than a PK (hello2u Warlord, Raider, Conqueror, Lawbringer, Nobushi ...)

I think your argument is getting a little desperate if you're including being knocked into a wall as part of what makes the PK dangerous.

What next, PK is OP because she can kick you over a ledge? :rolleyes:

C'mon man, you're grasping ...

Alustar.exe
04-26-2017, 12:03 AM
What are you talking about? If you get parried, you are going to get guard broken, stabbed twice, thrown into a wall, heavy lunged, and final bleed stabbed by any PK who knows what he is doing. You cannot stop that. You cannot block the stabs from a guard break. PK's parry punish is the best in the game, not including OOS punish.

1 of you got parried, that's different, 2 you can still block the heavy lunge after hitting the wall. 3 yes, yes you can block the stabs from guard break. There's no telegraph for the hit, so you have to guess. But yes, you can.

cragar212
04-26-2017, 12:11 AM
I'm pretty sure any class can knock you into a wall and stun you and then hit you with a heavy while you are stunned. Many can do it far easier than a PK (hello2u Warlord, Raider, Conqueror, Lawbringer, Nobushi ...)

I think your argument is getting a little desperate if you're including being knocked into a wall as part of what makes the PK dangerous.

What next, PK is OP because she can kick you over a ledge? :rolleyes:

C'mon man, you're grasping ...

Wait what?

I know you just play vs AI and stuff but in fighting games a huge part of balance is determined by a classes ability to punish mistakes.

The developers intentionally calculate how much damage each class can do off of each various mistake.

It is a simple fact they gave pk the highest GB damage punish in the game. /shrug

ScottJund
04-26-2017, 12:14 AM
1 of you got parried, that's different, 2 you can still block the heavy lunge after hitting the wall. 3 yes, yes you can block the stabs from guard break. There's no telegraph for the hit, so you have to guess. But yes, you can.

You are wrong on so many levels I don't even want to continue.

Gray360UK
04-26-2017, 12:15 AM
Wait what?

I know you just play vs AI and stuff but in fighting games a huge part of balance is determined by a classes ability to punish mistakes.

The developers intentionally calculate how much damage each class can do off of each various mistake.

It is a simple fact they gave pk the highest GB damage punish in the game. /shrug

As long as there's a wall nearby .... lol :rolleyes:

Why don't you ask Ubisoft to nerf walls?

You're talking crap fella, sorry.

And for the record I have one of the highest player K/D and K/A/D's in the game, so stop trying to measure your epeen against mine, you'll lose.

cragar212
04-26-2017, 12:18 AM
As long as there's a wall nearby .... lol :rolleyes:

You're talking crap fella, sorry.

And for the record I have one of the highest player K/D and K/A/D's in the game, so stop trying to measure your epeen against mine, you'll lose.


Dude pretty much anything you have ever posted on this forum shows you have next to 0 understanding of the games basic mechanics lul

Gray360UK
04-26-2017, 12:24 AM
Dude pretty much anything you have ever posted on this forum shows you have next to 0 understanding of the games basic mechanics lul

If "make sure you are always fighting next to a wall" is one of the games basic mechanics then I guess you are right :rolleyes:

So basically all Ubisoft need to do is remove walls and you'll be happy with the PK? ;)

You're hilarious.

cragar212
04-26-2017, 12:39 AM
If "make sure you are always fighting next to a wall" is one of the games basic mechanics then I guess you are right :rolleyes:

So basically all Ubisoft need to do is remove walls and you'll be happy with the PK? ;)

You're hilarious.

Hmm yes unless you are fighting a shugo you have an advantage when near walls...

Reducing PKs GB punish would be a good start to nerfing her yes.

But it would be impossible to have a realistic balance conversation with someone completely ignorant of the games basic mechanics.

Gray360UK
04-26-2017, 12:44 AM
Hmm yes unless you are fighting a shugo you have an advantage when near walls...

Reducing PKs GB punish would be a good start to nerfing her yes.

But it would be impossible to have a realistic balance conversation with someone completely ignorant of the games basic mechanics.

So when she's standing out in the open she's not as powerful anymore? Because no walls? Right? Just making sure I have this straight. But when another class charges you into a wall, or shoulder bashes you into a wall, or shield bashes you into a wall, or kicks you into a wall, or throws you into a wall, that's okay? It's PKs in particular and the way they use walls that is unfair? ... and you're not grasping at all? :rolleyes:

"The Peacekeeper is OP because walls" Cragar212 26th April 2017

I love it ;)

CandleInTheDark
04-26-2017, 12:47 AM
Hmm yes unless you are fighting a shugo you have an advantage when near walls...

Reducing PKs GB punish would be a good start to nerfing her yes.

But it would be impossible to have a realistic balance conversation with someone completely ignorant of the games basic mechanics.

Oddly enough, people weren't complaining about the fact that she could knock people into a wall, like anyone else can, when they were saying she was op, they were complaining that the side shank did too much damage (nerfed several times since the start judging by the videos), her zone abuse (nerfed in revenge and given reaction frames when blocked) her zone flicker (being fixed for everyone in a future patch) and her light spam (nerfed in this patch),then you can add that she also had her side dodge attack nerfed which was balanced by giving a buff in a harder to pull off skill. Hey I was one of the ones saying quite loudly she was unbalanced and I main her, but there is wanting nerfs, which she has gotten, and wanting to nerf her into the ground which the devs aren't keen to do because they did that once already with Valkyrie.

And by the by I like how you say someone's opinion doesn't matter because they fight against ai and you ignore completely the fact that he has one of the highest player k/a/d's in the game.

ScottJund
04-26-2017, 12:52 AM
Oddly enough, people weren't complaining about the fact that she could knock people into a wall, like anyone else can, when they were saying she was op, they were complaining that the side shank did too much damage (nerfed several times since the start judging by the videos), her zone abuse (nerfed in revenge and given reaction frames when blocked) her zone flicker (being fixed for everyone in a future patch) and her light spam (nerfed in this patch). Hey I was one of the ones saying quite loudly she was unbalanced and I main her, but there is wanting nerfs, which she has gotten, and wanting to nerf her into the ground which the devs aren't keen to do because they did that once already with Valkyrie.

And by the by I like how you say someone's opinion doesn't matter because they fight against ai and you ignore completely the fact that he has one of the highest player k/a/d's in the game.

The problem is she has been "nerfed" but none of the nerfs actually address what make her so strong.

Her Side dash attack was nerfed, but what competent PK relies on that? In fact, that's one of her weakest attacks. Her Zone Attack was "nerfed" except the only nerf it actually had was spamming it in revenge. Its still unreactably fast with flicker. Now, her light spam was nerfed, but again, what good PK just only spams lights? Nerfing the recovery of the 2nd light does nothing since good PKs don't spam more than 2 lights in a row without changing it up.

Almost nothing about her was actually nerfed. It's like if they took all the complaints about Warden's vortex and said a Warden nerf was coming, and then they nerfed his side light damage only.

cragar212
04-26-2017, 12:53 AM
So when she's standing out in the open she's not as powerful anymore? Because no walls? Right? Just making sure I have this straight. But when another class charges you into a wall, or shoulder bashes you into a wall, or shield bashes you into a wall, or kicks you into a wall, or throws you into a wall, that's okay? It's PKs in particular and the way they use walls that is unfair? ... and you're not grasping at all? :rolleyes:

"The Peacekeeper is OP because walls" Cragar212 26th April 2017

I love it ;)

She gains the biggest advantage from wall punish other then Shugo. It's a fact. Reducing this damage would make her slightly weaker. It's a fact.

But talking to you is like talking to an autistic 14 year old. Waste of time.

Gray360UK
04-26-2017, 12:56 AM
The problem is she has been "nerfed" but none of the nerfs actually address what make her so strong.

Her Side dash attack was nerfed, but what competent PK relies on that? In fact, that's one of her weakest attacks. Her Zone Attack was "nerfed" except the only nerf it actually had was spamming it in revenge. Its still unreactably fast with flicker. Now, her light spam was nerfed, but again, what good PK just only spams lights? Nerfing the recovery of the 2nd light does nothing since good PKs don't spam more than 2 lights in a row without changing it up.

Almost nothing about her was actually nerfed. It's like if they took all the complaints about Warden's vortex and said a Warden nerf was coming, and then they nerfed his side light damage only.

Damn, so there are these really good PKs out there who don't use Sidesteps, Zones or Lights? What the hell do they use?

Ooh ooh, I know ... WALLS! ;)

lmao, this is one of the funniest threads I have ever seen on these forums, I am in tears here. Candle ... help ... I can't even ....

CandleInTheDark
04-26-2017, 12:58 AM
The problem is she has been "nerfed" but none of the nerfs actually address what make her so strong.

Her Side dash attack was nerfed, but what competent PK relies on that? In fact, that's one of her weakest attacks. Her Zone Attack was "nerfed" except the only nerf it actually had was spamming it in revenge. Its still unreactably fast with flicker. Now, her light spam was nerfed, but again, what good PK just only spams lights? Nerfing the recovery of the 2nd light does nothing since good PKs don't spam more than 2 lights in a row without changing it up.

Almost nothing about her was actually nerfed. It's like if they took all the complaints about Warden's vortex and said a Warden nerf was coming, and then they nerfed his side light damage only.

In terms of zone attack, you are forgetting that the devs fixed the bug that meant the indicator showed later than it should, while the move itself is no slower, players get more time to react to it, about twice as much since the indicator triggered half way through, that is the same as slowing it down but not fixing the indicator.The flicker is, as I said, being fixed for everyone, and most people were complaining about lights, in fact in another thread not many hours ago, someone said, more than once, that when pressured all pk does is r1 r1 r1 r1 r1 r1. Most of the complaints, on this forum anyway, have been exactly that, her light spam.

ScottJund
04-26-2017, 01:00 AM
Damn, so there are these really good PKs out there who don't use Sidesteps, Zones or Lights? What the hell do they use?

Ooh ooh, I know ... WALLS! ;)

lmao, this is one of the funniest threads I have ever seen on these forums, I am in tears here. Candle ... help ... I can't even ....

What the hell are you talking about? I'm saying her Zone and lights are extremely strong.

cragar212
04-26-2017, 01:07 AM
What the hell are you talking about? I'm saying her Zone and lights are extremely strong.

Hey are you the real Scottjund? You won't find any reason here dude.

Dry.Fish
04-26-2017, 01:08 AM
She can still feint the heavy at the end of her chain then continue with another light, rinse and repeat.

Gray360UK
04-26-2017, 01:09 AM
What the hell are you talking about? I'm saying her Zone and lights are extremely strong.

You're talking as much crap as the other guy, although you're less coherent. You've just listed everything that got nerfed and then said 'good' PKs don't use any of those anyway (then why nerf and why months of complaints / tournament bans etc?). You are just showing your ignorance of the class and the issues.

At least you're not blaming walls I guess.

I can only recommend you actually become one of these 'good' Peacekeepers you think you know all about, because ironically in a thread suggesting that PKs should be embarrassed, you and Cragar are doing a spectacular job of embarrassing yourselves. I am one of your 'good' Peacekeepers, so is Candle, so if you want to know what we use and how we play, listen to the people who know, instead of jumping on the PK hate bandwagon and making yourself look like an idiot.

I think I can speak for Candle as well as myself, when I say that our primary goal as Peacekeepers is not to locate the nearest wall. :rolleyes:

cragar212
04-26-2017, 01:12 AM
You're talking as much crap as the other guy, although you're less coherent. You've just listed everything that got nerfed and then said 'good' PKs don't use any of those anyway (then why nerf and why months of complaints / tournament bans etc?). You are just showing your ignorance of the class and the issues.

At least you're not blaming walls I guess.

I can only recommend you actually become one of these 'good' Peacekeepers you think you know all about, because ironically in a thread suggesting that PKs should be embarrassed, you and Cragar are doing a spectacular job of embarrassing yourselves. I am one of your 'good' Peacekeepers, so is Candle, so if you want to know what we use and how we play, listen to the people who know, instead of jumping on the PK hate bandwagon and making yourself look like an idiot.

I think I can speak for Candle as well as myself, when I say that our primary goal as Peacekeepers is not to locate the nearest wall. :rolleyes:

Lol scottjund is one of the best players in the worlds. The noobs on this forum smh...

ScottJund
04-26-2017, 01:13 AM
Hey are you the real Scottjund? You won't find any reason here dude.

Yeah I just saw the guy I was arguing with saying he has one of the highest KDAs in the game. Checked it, console Peacekeeper with 0.61 KDA in Duels and 1.20 in Brawls. Console Peacekeeper. Console Peacekeeper. With those stats. I should probably leave.

CandleInTheDark
04-26-2017, 01:13 AM
She can still feint the heavy at the end of her chain then continue with another light, rinse and repeat.

Costs her a chunk of stamina for the feint and you still get the time between lights resetting that you would if she had the reset she is getting in this patch. So basically your complaint is she needs a little more skill like anyone else feinting has to show, can do it less before her stamina runs out and still has to have that time for the opponent to retake the initiative between the lights.

FirestormX5
04-26-2017, 01:21 AM
Playing on Xbox the other day trying the Herculean task of fulfilling all the Dominion orders without a constant stream of errors and DCs I decided to switch it up and moved on to fill the assasin order.

Knowing I haven't played a PK since campaign mode back at launch, I fully expected to quickly get destroyed for 5 matches then move back to my Raider.

The thing is, I didn't. In fact, I freaking walked around like the angel of death owning people like they were standing still. In every match I was 1st or 2nd at the end.

This is against players of all gear lvls and with knowing jack squat about how to play a PK. I didn't know any combos and couldn't even figure out how to do the triple stabby thing that's so annoying.

If my play style was kung fu you'd have to call it faceroll-button mash style. Yet I felt like an assembly line worker at a meat packing plant. They kept coming, and I kept carving them up.

Now I main a Raider and have played enough where I am at least competent with him. Most would probably say I still need to git gud though. But playing a PK was like a whole different game. It's God mode. I was wondering if I had accidentally entered some sort of cheat code.

How deadly/OP is she if she's your main and you actually know how to play even a little bit? Wow, way worse than I thought.

If you main a PK and don't own the board every time you play you should be embarrassed. If you die even once from a Raider, you should probably just move on to a different game. You might want to consider quitting video games altogether. They're probably just not your thing.



Dirteh Raider for life.

I play as an Orochi and PK, they have the same rep and gear rep 7 gear 108, PK is very good, but I still prefer the Orochi I cant list her cons as there are a few (but I cant give tips to beat me lol) but against noobs PK will be like a god.
however warlord, conqueror, Nobushi are just as good as a PK if used right..

CandleInTheDark
04-26-2017, 01:24 AM
Yeah I just saw the guy I was arguing with saying he has one of the highest KDAs in the game. Checked it, console Peacekeeper with 0.61 KDA in Duels and 1.20 in Brawls. Console Peacekeeper. Console Peacekeeper. With those stats. I should probably leave.

If you mean me, I never said I have one of the highest k/d/a's in the game, that was Gray, who cragar had said was not relevant because he only went against ai and it was that I was referencing. Helps if you read up more than a few ;)

ScottJund
04-26-2017, 01:31 AM
If you mean me, I never said I have one of the highest k/d/a's in the game, that was Gray, who cragar had said was not relevant because he only went against ai and it was that I was referencing. Helps if you read up more than a few ;)

Oh no, I was referring to Gray. He also said you were an example of a good PK but you're not arguing with me so I'm not going to go there.

Dry.Fish
04-26-2017, 01:41 AM
Costs her a chunk of stamina for the feint and you still get the time between lights resetting that you would if she had the reset she is getting in this patch. So basically your complaint is she needs a little more skill like anyone else feinting has to show, can do it less before her stamina runs out and still has to have that time for the opponent to retake the initiative between the lights.
She is still committing to the chain finisher and can still have the initiative, but this really can't be discussed until 1.06 goes live

ScottJund
04-26-2017, 01:49 AM
You can add how long I've duelled for and how you know any of them were on my Peacekeeper any time you like. Maybe include my Peacekeepers KDA ... something relevant like that.

But then you'll just blame it on wall abuse or something like the other guy.

You've played 65 hours total on Peacekeeper. Over 20% of your kills are on bots. You play Peacekeeper on console, where literal tournament winners struggle to block her, much less parry, due to the multitude of issues consoles have with For Honor. All of this is mostly in Dominion mode, where yes, you can get more kills because its Dominion and relative skill with Feats and Gearscore is extremely low for random matches. Assists are fairly irrelevant because they almost never happen in Duels and Brawls.

ArlianDeBias
04-26-2017, 01:49 AM
I'd like to hear the opponents thoughts on the viability of PK's kit after she gets nerfed a second time.

How exactly is PK meant to kill people after all the proposed decreases to her attack speed and bleed effects?

PK is well balanced after the recent 1.05 patch. I find a healthy amount of enemies who know how to use their kit against a peacekeeper.

Yeah, she shreds enemies who don't know how to play against her, but that's the same for every other character in the game. It's also the same in every other multiplayer game out there.

This isn't about decreasing an overpowered character, it's about grinding a balanced character into the dirt so that inexperienced players can feel better about themselves.

ArlianDeBias
04-26-2017, 02:00 AM
http://i.imgur.com/psf1BZb.jpg

By the way, these are my stats on PK after 300 hours of play. I use her full kit without any spam or cheese tactics.

The only change Peacekeeper needs is a slight delay added on to her zone attack. I'm not sure if the zone flicker has been fixed as I've been playing other characters, but that also needs to be fixed.

ScottJund
04-26-2017, 02:01 AM
I'd like to hear the opponents thoughts on the viability of PK's kit after she gets nerfed a second time.

How exactly is PK meant to kill people after all the proposed decreases to her attack speed and bleed effects?

PK is well balanced after the recent 1.05 patch. I find a healthy amount of enemies who know how to use their kit against a peacekeeper.

Yeah, she shreds enemies who don't know how to play against her, but that's the same for every other character in the game. It's also the same in every other multiplayer game out there.

This isn't about decreasing an overpowered character, it's about grinding a balanced character into the dirt so that inexperienced players can feel better about themselves.


Again, you say "nerfed a second time" but she really has barely been touched even once. She is not well balanced. People that win tournaments with PK even admit they know they're using something very silly. She is entirely banned on console tournaments.

Granted, most of this comes from her Zone Attack on PC. On Console, its pretty hopeless. There is no reason she needs the fastest side lights, fastest top lights, fastest followup lights, and the fastest zone which also has almost no recovery and has insane forward tracking, all while doing far more damage than she should with that speed., while also having the best parry punish in the game.

Honestly I'd take just a 100ms nerf to her followup light, which is unblockable in certain scenarios, but the real issue is her Zone Attack.

ArlianDeBias
04-26-2017, 02:24 AM
Again, you say "nerfed a second time" but she really has barely been touched even once. She is not well balanced. People that win tournaments with PK even admit they know they're using something very silly. She is entirely banned on console tournaments.

Granted, most of this comes from her Zone Attack on PC. On Console, its pretty hopeless. There is no reason she needs the fastest side lights, fastest top lights, fastest followup lights, and the fastest zone which also has almost no recovery and has insane forward tracking, all while doing far more damage than she should with that speed., while also having the best parry punish in the game.

Honestly I'd take just a 100ms nerf to her followup light, which is unblockable in certain scenarios, but the real issue is her Zone Attack.

I'd argue that the changes in patch 1.05 are actually a lot larger than you believe them to be.


Zone Attack first strike is now set up as a light attack to trigger an interrupt reaction on block.
Cancelling a blocked Zone attack while in Revenge will now force an exit of 600ms preventing you from attacking again.
[Bug Fix] Zone Attack UI indicator will now correctly start at the beginning of the animation instead of 100ms later.
Sidestep Strike recovery on Interrupt Block increased to 800ms (from 700ms).
Sidestep Strike damage decreased to 15 (from 20).
Riposting Stab damage increased to 30 (from 25). Bleed effect remains unchanged.


These are small changes, but they all add up together to drastically change how she's effectively played. For example, I rarely use sidestep strike after the patch as the risk of it getting blocked / parried outways the benefits or causing an anemic 15 damage to the enemy. The riposting stab is also rarely used as it's still too risky to attempt with the current net code and preventing damage to PK's very small health pool will take priority over the riposting stab maybe working and dealing damage to the enemy. My current play style has devolved into mostly parry into GB stabs with zones and lights mixed into it after the recent patch. One thing Ubisoft has yet to fix is Peacekeepers buggy block which seems to not actually block attacks 10% of the time, and this doesn't happen on any other character I've played. This rarely gets mentioned in threads like this though.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with all of the changes they implemented thus far as it's stopped the majority of cheese tactics by PK players. I'm just worried that any further decreases to her attack speed will limit her options in battle, and she'll end up with nothing else but parrying into GB, while other characters still have their cheese attacks and abilities intact ready to shove their axe / versatile implement / sword straight into her defenseless self.

ScottJund
04-26-2017, 02:31 AM
I'd argue that the changes in patch 1.05 are actually a lot larger than you believe them to be.


Zone Attack first strike is now set up as a light attack to trigger an interrupt reaction on block.
Cancelling a blocked Zone attack while in Revenge will now force an exit of 600ms preventing you from attacking again.
[Bug Fix] Zone Attack UI indicator will now correctly start at the beginning of the animation instead of 100ms later.
Sidestep Strike recovery on Interrupt Block increased to 800ms (from 700ms).
Sidestep Strike damage decreased to 15 (from 20).
Riposting Stab damage increased to 30 (from 25). Bleed effect remains unchanged.


These are small changes, but they all add up together to drastically change how she's effectively played. For example, I rarely use sidestep strike after the patch as the risk of it getting blocked / parried outways the benefits or causing an anemic 15 damage to the enemy. The riposting stab is also rarely used as it's still too risky to attempt with the current net code and preventing damage to PK's very small health pool will take priority over the riposting stab maybe working and dealing damage to the enemy. My current play style has devolved into mostly parry into GB stabs with zones and lights mixed into it after the recent patch. One thing Ubisoft has yet to fix is Peacekeepers buggy block which seems to not actually block attacks 10% of the time, and this doesn't happen on any other character I've played. This rarely gets mentioned in threads like this though.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with all of the changes they implemented thus far as it's stopped the majority of the cheese on the character. I'm just worried that any further decreases to her attack speed will limit her options in battle, and she'll end up with nothing else but parrying into GB, while other characters still have their cheese attacks and abilities intact ready to shove their axe / versatile / sword straight into her defenseless self.

The problem is you worry about limiting her options in battle, but that's what almost every character in the game struggles with. Its one of the core problems with For Honor - inability to break turtles. You play a Peacekeeper so the problem isn't as obvious to you but you wouldn't be nerfed to unplayable levels, you'd just actually be "normal." The fact that that disparity exists, by definition makes PK "overpowered." Its also why Warlord, pre-nerf Conq, and pre-nerf Warden, and pre-nerf Shugoki had the same issue, and only Warlord remains relatively untouched now since the others were patched for the same issue.

ArlianDeBias
04-26-2017, 02:49 AM
The problem is you worry about limiting her options in battle, but that's what almost every character in the game struggles with. Its one of the core problems with For Honor - inability to break turtles. You play a Peacekeeper so the problem isn't as obvious to you but you wouldn't be nerfed to unplayable levels, you'd just actually be "normal." The fact that that disparity exists, by definition makes PK "overpowered." Its also why Warlord, pre-nerf Conq, and pre-nerf Warden, and pre-nerf Shugoki had the same issue, and only Warlord remains relatively untouched now since the others were patched for the same issue.

So your answer to the turtle meta is to nerf the one character who can theoretically* beat them? I'm a little confused with your whole post actually, you're saying that PK is overpowered but then point to the core problem with For Honor being turtle characters, something which PK is the furthest from being. What did you mean by this?

In any case, I'd say PK is "normal" as of the 1.05 patch and anything outside of extremely minor tweaks to her zone and her lights are unwarranted and unneeded.

*I say theoretically because I've met very good conq players who blocked every single light I threw at them, including the second faster chain lights. Proof that PK lights balanced? Illuminati confirmed.

Alustar.exe
04-26-2017, 02:58 AM
The problem is you worry about limiting her options in battle, but that's what almost every character in the game struggles with. Its one of the core problems with For Honor - inability to break turtles. You play a Peacekeeper so the problem isn't as obvious to you but you wouldn't be nerfed to unplayable levels, you'd just actually be "normal." The fact that that disparity exists, by definition makes PK "overpowered." Its also why Warlord, pre-nerf Conq, and pre-nerf Warden, and pre-nerf Shugoki had the same issue, and only Warlord remains relatively untouched now since the others were patched for the same issue.

So then maybe the arguent shouldn't be to nerf PK, but buff others abilities to penetrate defenses and press attacks.

Let's also not forget, each hero has a role, don't get upset because the other kid has a toy you don't have, because you've got plenty he doesn't. I've tried to argue for years that balanced team based combat comes across, not out of equalizing every class to the same parameters, but rather supporting a diverse, specialized team of fighters who know how to work together. Playing off their strengths and defending their weaknesses.

CandleInTheDark
04-26-2017, 03:33 AM
The problem is you worry about limiting her options in battle, but that's what almost every character in the game struggles with. Its one of the core problems with For Honor - inability to break turtles. You play a Peacekeeper so the problem isn't as obvious to you but you wouldn't be nerfed to unplayable levels, you'd just actually be "normal." The fact that that disparity exists, by definition makes PK "overpowered." Its also why Warlord, pre-nerf Conq, and pre-nerf Warden, and pre-nerf Shugoki had the same issue, and only Warlord remains relatively untouched now since the others were patched for the same issue.

See I do disagree a little here because other characters do have options and tools that she doesn't have. Bear in mind that I am not complaining about this, but she doesn't have an unblockable (raider and kensei, kensei's can be turnedinto a side uninterruptable) she doesn't have uninteruptables (again kensei, shugoki, berzerker, the latter of which can finisha duel in four attacks though the opponent would have to be lacking in reflexes to not block top), she doesn't have a health gain in non feat matches that is capable of one shot killing even if he has not landed a single blow prior (Shugoki) she doesn't have a disabler (valkyrie, lawbringer) or an easily spammable shove (lawbringer, warden, conqueror) or an all defence (valkyrie, conqueror, warlord), like I said, I am not complaining about her not having that, she is a counter attacker, the guardbreak, bleed, deflect and dodge attacks lead into that.

What we have been told for months is that the light spam and zone is ridiculously op, and I agree with that, I wasn't one of the people shouting git gud, I was one of those saying that is what the devs have to work on, (like I have said to others in this thread, look at my post history, posted a couple of examples back on page 2 I think it was) but then just after two patches have been announced that have dealt with what the console community at least was complaining about, suddenly it is oh she has the biggest guardbreak punish and she has barely been nerfed at all and that is where I am all 'what now?' Because as soon as the devs have dealt with the complaints, a new complaint, out of nowhere has been found because in very situational circumstances, where you have to be near and facing a wall and she has to have stamina at the time to pull it off, she gets a little bit more damage because she can do what everyone else can, that being push someone into a wall and get a punish, after stabbing them a couple times first and that is where it is a case of do people want her nerfed all over because of where she was at the beginning? Bear in mind that without that situational wall bit, her triple stab is probably somewhere around where the other characters' guardbreak options are, I know it was op in beta, I saw videos, but that got nerfed to bring it into line also.

All the characters have things that make them unique, the PK had some grade a BS with the lights and the zone, the devs have said they don't want to mess with the speed but are handling the spam in other ways with the recovery frames. And remember that the devs are looking to deal with the defensive meta somewhat and I am guessing that will make a lot of things that are not currently viable more so.

And I will tell you something that annoys me immensely, nearly as much as bad players that abuse the stuff you mentioned, people keep saying that all of us picked the peacekeeper because she is OP. Absolute BS, the peacekeeper was my main before I saw a single video or tier list involving her,she was a dual wielding knight assassin, that was all I needed to know, hell it is why I bought the game when it was full price to begin with, she would still be my main if she were trash tier and for people to make that assumption and accept nothing else but what the mindless bandwagon tells them is galling.

ScottJund
04-26-2017, 03:52 AM
So your answer to the turtle meta is to nerf the one character who can theoretically* beat them? I'm a little confused with your whole post actually, you're saying that PK is overpowered but then point to the core problem with For Honor being turtle characters, something which PK is the furthest from being. What did you mean by this?

In any case, I'd say PK is "normal" as of the 1.05 patch and anything outside of extremely minor tweaks to her zone and her lights are unwarranted and unneeded.

*I say theoretically because I've met very good conq players who blocked every single light I threw at them, including the second faster chain lights. Proof that PK lights balanced? Illuminati confirmed.

My point was you were saying PK was not overpowered, and I said by virtue of being able to open up opponents she is better than most of the characters in the game. Now whether or not everyone gets buffed to her level or she gets nerfed to everyone else's level is irrelevant, I'm just saying one is clearly better than most as of right now. On console she is almost undefendable from what I hear. Its not as bad on PC.

I still don't know how you can say PK is "normal." Like really, compare her with someone like Kensei who has literally no openers and tell me they are on the same level. Where are all the Kenseis winning tournaments? There is a reason the same classes continually win tournaments. Once the flicker bug is fixed, it will be a lot easier to deal with PK, but then classes like Orochi who pretty much solely rely on it will become even more worthless than they already are at high level.

Alustar.exe
04-26-2017, 03:06 PM
See I do disagree a little here because other characters do have options and tools that she doesn't have. Bear in mind that I am not complaining about this, but she doesn't have an unblockable (raider and kensei, kensei's can be turnedinto a side uninterruptable) she doesn't have uninteruptables (again kensei, shugoki, berzerker, the latter of which can finisha duel in four attacks though the opponent would have to be lacking in reflexes to not block top), she doesn't have a health gain in non feat matches that is capable of one shot killing even if he has not landed a single blow prior (Shugoki) she doesn't have a disabler (valkyrie, lawbringer) or an easily spammable shove (lawbringer, warden, conqueror) or an all defence (valkyrie, conqueror, warlord), like I said, I am not complaining about her not having that, she is a counter attacker, the guardbreak, bleed, deflect and dodge attacks lead into that.

What we have been told for months is that the light spam and zone is ridiculously op, and I agree with that, I wasn't one of the people shouting git gud, I was one of those saying that is what the devs have to work on, (like I have said to others in this thread, look at my post history, posted a couple of examples back on page 2 I think it was) but then just after two patches have been announced that have dealt with what the console community at least was complaining about, suddenly it is oh she has the biggest guardbreak punish and she has barely been nerfed at all and that is where I am all 'what now?' Because as soon as the devs have dealt with the complaints, a new complaint, out of nowhere has been found because in very situational circumstances, where you have to be near and facing a wall and she has to have stamina at the time to pull it off, she gets a little bit more damage because she can do what everyone else can, that being push someone into a wall and get a punish, after stabbing them a couple times first and that is where it is a case of do people want her nerfed all over because of where she was at the beginning? Bear in mind that without that situational wall bit, her triple stab is probably somewhere around where the other characters' guardbreak options are, I know it was op in beta, I saw videos, but that got nerfed to bring it into line also.

All the characters have things that make them unique, the PK had some grade a BS with the lights and the zone, the devs have said they don't want to mess with the speed but are handling the spam in other ways with the recovery frames. And remember that the devs are looking to deal with the defensive meta somewhat and I am guessing that will make a lot of things that are not currently viable more so.

And I will tell you something that annoys me immensely, nearly as much as bad players that abuse the stuff you mentioned, people keep saying that all of us picked the peacekeeper because she is OP. Absolute BS, the peacekeeper was my main before I saw a single video or tier list involving her,she was a dual wielding knight assassin, that was all I needed to know, hell it is why I bought the game when it was full price to begin with, she would still be my main if she were trash tier and for people to make that assumption and accept nothing else but what the mindless bandwagon tells them is galling.

The hate on assassin types has been a trend since as far back as I can remember. From DnD to wow, rift and everything in between, any community and forum I've been apart of the class players are most critical of are classes like PK.
I called it before I even picked up my copy of this game that my class(PK) would be flamed for being OP and broken.

And here we are close to another patch that will fix some issues with her, and already players are teeing up for the next "OP" aspect of her layout.

And honestly? I feel this iteration of an assassin is possibly the most balanced and least OP I've found. Case and point, be glad she has no ability to stun like is typical for a bleeder type like her.

CandleInTheDark
04-26-2017, 03:10 PM
The hate on assassin types has been a trend since as far back as I can remember. From DnD to wow, rift and everything in between, any community and forum I've been apart of the class players are most critical of are classes like PK.
I called it before I even picked up my copy of this game that my class(PK) would be flamed for being OP and broken.

And here we are close to another patch that will fix some issues with her, and already players are teeing up for the next "OP" aspect of her layout.

And honestly? I feel this iteration of an assassin is possibly the most balanced and least OP I've found. Case and point, be glad she has no ability to stun like is typical for a bleeder type like her.

Yeah that was the one I forgot when saying what other characters have, she has no stun like the kensei, shugoki and raider though that might fall under disabler. And all that stuff others have, while the PK's is most viable currently, if the devs do properly fix the defensive meta, those other tools might suddenly be much more valuable than they are currently. Like I say it is just getting old now where suddenly it seems that the devs have patched what people are complaining about but wait there's more.

razabak10mm
04-26-2017, 04:16 PM
And honestly? I feel this iteration of an assassin is possibly the most balanced and least OP I've found.

Bwahahaha!!!!! The truth comes out. That made my day!

If you want walk around wearing a hood shanking people at will and killing them with ease there's a really popular game out. They even made a movie about it. It's called Assasins Creed, you should really go check it out.

Alustar.exe
04-26-2017, 04:38 PM
Bwahahaha!!!!! The truth comes out. That made my day!

If you want walk around wearing a hood shanking people at will and killing them with ease there's a really popular game out. They even made a movie about it. It's called Assasins Creed, you should really go check it out.

Lol, I like how you've yet to address a single point with anything other than "PK OP" it's clear to me that you've obviously not played much in the way fantasy titles with varied classes. when you actually decide to add something beneficial to the argument let me know, Till then, Troll harder nub.

razabak10mm
04-26-2017, 06:19 PM
You know, you're right man. You've convinced me the poor PK has been fighting an uphill battle this entire time. Apparently the devs think so too. I'll be glad to see her get some buffs in the upcoming patch:

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1645012-Peacekeeper-Balance-Changes-Confirmed

Alustar.exe
04-26-2017, 06:34 PM
Yeah at this point your acting just like every other player complaining about rogues across any other game/platform I've been a part of.

JayyRupp
04-26-2017, 06:45 PM
Playing on Xbox the other day trying the Herculean task of fulfilling all the Dominion orders without a constant stream of errors and DCs I decided to switch it up and moved on to fill the assasin order.

Knowing I haven't played a PK since campaign mode back at launch, I fully expected to quickly get destroyed for 5 matches then move back to my Raider.

The thing is, I didn't. In fact, I freaking walked around like the angel of death owning people like they were standing still. In every match I was 1st or 2nd at the end.

This is against players of all gear lvls and with knowing jack squat about how to play a PK. I didn't know any combos and couldn't even figure out how to do the triple stabby thing that's so annoying.

If my play style was kung fu you'd have to call it faceroll-button mash style. Yet I felt like an assembly line worker at a meat packing plant. They kept coming, and I kept carving them up.

Now I main a Raider and have played enough where I am at least competent with him. Most would probably say I still need to git gud though. But playing a PK was like a whole different game. It's God mode. I was wondering if I had accidentally entered some sort of cheat code.

How deadly/OP is she if she's your main and you actually know how to play even a little bit? Wow, way worse than I thought.

If you main a PK and don't own the board every time you play you should be embarrassed. If you die even once from a Raider, you should probably just move on to a different game. You might want to consider quitting video games altogether. They're probably just not your thing.



Dirteh Raider for life.

Yeah she pretty much has 0 learning curve.

PK Flow Chart: Spam Lights - Attempt bleed - Run away if they're bleeding - If they're not bleeding - Spam Lights - Attempt bleed - Run away if they're bleeding - Repeat

Alustar.exe
04-26-2017, 07:30 PM
Lol so let me get this straight, you guys would rather have straight and immediate damage done by PKs rather than a DoT effect that allows you a window to recover and overcome? To me this is pretty much saying "I don't want a chance to win against a PK, instead I wish any future encounter ends with the PK annihilating me in 10 secs or less so I can move on to the next".

razabak10mm
04-27-2017, 03:26 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5_Gw5g3rzbs

This sums up the PK pretty much perfectly. Especially the part about the 14 second learning curve.

Alustar.exe
04-27-2017, 03:58 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5_Gw5g3rzbs

This sums up the PK pretty much perfectly. Especially the part about the 14 second learning curve.
Lol that sounds like every other youtuber fishing for up votes.
You have some serious PK envy. It'd be hilariously if it wasn't so sad.

Knight_Gregor
04-27-2017, 04:55 PM
I feel like this thread is talking about all the wrong things. Why put the blame on the class itself? In my opinion the Peacekeeper's biggest problem is the light attack speed, how much time is given to react to it, and fluctuations in the network further compounding the issue.

But this is not exclusive to the Peacekeeper. Nobushi and Valk light attacks. Orochi and Warden zone attacks. Even the occasional lucky light attack from the berzerker that gets through. The issue is each player's individual rendering of the "Simulation," discrepancies in transferring the input data, and how long or far the "Simulation," allows itself to desync before it corrects itself on all player's individual rendition, or hysteresis.

It's why we scream at the monitor or tv when we know we've blocked something in time. Why we sometimes damage an opponent after seeing them change guard in time to block. It's why dodging bashes and unblockables are inconsistent. Nerfing a particular class into the ground will not fix the issue.