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View Full Version : This video basically sums up all the problems of the "defense/Turtle" meta...



kweassa1917
04-19-2017, 02:32 PM
What we thought we would be getting with For Honor


https://youtu.be/IV3yvOkooYA




What we actually got


https://youtu.be/POAD9s4szKw

...yep, right down to the feint spamming, stance change spamming, passive defense, keeping range, using only "safe" attacks... waiting for the other guy, and taunt spamming... "revenge mode" 1-shotting at 02:43... even to the same music style :D ....this is what we got!



:D :D :D

Gray360UK
04-19-2017, 02:36 PM
Haha, brilliant, and so true ;)

Netcode_err_404
04-19-2017, 03:02 PM
Second one is an average 1v1 duel nowadays.

Except duels lasts 5 minutes each round :(

FootlessRhino
04-19-2017, 03:25 PM
lol, on point

Vordred
04-19-2017, 03:35 PM
yep, that pretty much sums it up

RatedChaotic
04-19-2017, 04:51 PM
What we thought we would be getting with For Honor


https://youtu.be/IV3yvOkooYA




What we actually got


https://youtu.be/POAD9s4szKw

...yep, right down to the feint spamming, stance change spamming, passive defense, keeping range, using only "safe" attacks... waiting for the other guy, and taunt spamming... "revenge mode" 1-shotting at 02:43... even to the same music style :D ....this is what we got!



:D :D :D


I've ran into those videos myself. I enjoyed the 20vs20 match. The guys with the polearms wacking away. Its brutal.

Netcode_err_404
04-19-2017, 05:10 PM
BTw i was watching the first video, i've seen 5-6 mins so far, damn, its pretty cool <3

RatedChaotic
04-19-2017, 05:28 PM
Theres a few videos of them doing a somewhat castle seige...It was fun to watch guys in full armor drop kicking people. lmao

Kaotic_CipherTV
04-19-2017, 06:17 PM
I see what youre getting at but im gonna disagree. On console atleast we get a blend of both videos. The only reason the people in the first go all out and dont care about unsafe attacks is because at the end of the fight they both walk away. If it was life and death they would be more careful.

In for honor the same applies. Both characters dont go all out with swings because its not a game of score but of killing the other player. So stamina must be maintained and giving the enemy a free attack can mean death.

Netcode_err_404
04-19-2017, 06:34 PM
I see what youre getting at but im gonna disagree. On console atleast we get a blend of both videos. The only reason the people in the first go all out and dont care about unsafe attacks is because at the end of the fight they both walk away. If it was life and death they would be more careful.

In for honor the same applies. Both characters dont go all out with swings because its not a game of score but of killing the other player. So stamina must be maintained and giving the enemy a free attack can mean death.

If real medieval fights were like for honor.

All crusaders would have died of boredom, believe me.

Kaotic_CipherTV
04-19-2017, 06:57 PM
If real medieval fights were like for honor.

All crusaders would have died of boredom, believe me.

And i get that, but theres just some things that cant be interpreted into a game format. Like the force of an attack or getting a flail wrapped around a weapon and disarming. It has to be simplified, which is what we have.

Some characters cant dodge much, others can. In a real scenario dodging wouldnt be that cool and relies more on sword skill. Sadly you just cant make the game have that much realism.

rossato2109
04-19-2017, 07:16 PM
Yeah, they screwed up. Its funny, there are very few classes that can actually attack people (PK and valkyre I think). PK is already getting "fixed" to prevent that. Basically pvp in this game is just a stare contest. The first one that attacks loses. Funny enough, feints are basically pretending to attack to stay on defense and to get the other guy to attack instead, in short, playing on defense mode as well.

They are screwing up seriously in this game. Getting really tired of the way they are balacing the game.

corazondedelfin
04-19-2017, 07:22 PM
This is great man, you made my day. Hope the developers actually see this video and the piece of sh1t of videogame they ended developing instead of what WE WANTED.

Netcode_err_404
04-19-2017, 08:03 PM
Yeah, they screwed up. Its funny, there are very few classes that can actually attack people (PK and valkyre I think). PK is already getting "fixed" to prevent that. Basically pvp in this game is just a stare contest. The first one that attacks loses. Funny enough, feints are basically pretending to attack to stay on defense and to get the other guy to attack instead, in short, playing on defense mode as well.

They are screwing up seriously in this game. Getting really tired of the way they are balacing the game.

What you say is true, however PK needs a fix, is too superior to others.

But as I always said, nerfing and buffing classes BEFORE having adressed the def meta, is pointless.

SK-LorD4rk
04-20-2017, 01:53 AM
What we actually got


https://youtu.be/POAD9s4szKw

...yep, right down to the feint spamming, stance change spamming, passive defense, keeping range, using only "safe" attacks... waiting for the other guy, and taunt spamming... "revenge mode" 1-shotting at 02:43... even to the same music style :D ....this is what we got!

:D :D :D

Dude, I LOLed so hard at the feint spam video (so true btw) that I woke up my wife... AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Porch-Skunk
04-20-2017, 03:08 AM
I feel like the way for honor is with its so called turtle meta is great tho. I never see two equally skilled players having an issue either in game or on internet videos. In this post, vid 2 is representative of two masters, where as vid 1 is just mindless clashing. If you want mindless clashing play dynasty warriors or street fighter. I think (just my opinion) no other fighter has this type of play style, it is unique. People want game play to be so fast and mindless these days, this game is a rare example of real time strategy and thinking several steps ahead of movements unlike marvel vs capcom or other games where ya just kinda see who can get better at smashing buttons in a better order. A fight lasting more than 30 seconds is kinda nice IMO.

Theirs also Chivalry medieval warfare, thats more like vid 1 if thats your thing.

CaptainPwnet
04-20-2017, 04:08 AM
I feel like the way for honor is with its so called turtle meta is great tho. I never see two equally skilled players having an issue either in game or on internet videos. In this post, vid 2 is representative of two masters, where as vid 1 is just mindless clashing. If you want mindless clashing play dynasty warriors or street fighter. I think (just my opinion) no other fighter has this type of play style, it is unique. People want game play to be so fast and mindless these days, this game is a rare example of real time strategy and thinking several steps ahead of movements unlike marvel vs capcom or other games where ya just kinda see who can get better at smashing buttons in a better order. A fight lasting more than 30 seconds is kinda nice IMO.

Theirs also Chivalry medieval warfare, thats more like vid 1 if thats your thing.

Street fighter mindless clashing? I don't enjoy streetfighter as it's a pretty meh fighting game. But You obviously have little to no knowledge of actual fighting game gameplay lol. The reason you don't see games with a similar type of playstyle to For Honor's defensive favoritism is because it has been tried and true throughout any successful fighting game that offense should always be greater than defense or else the core of the game just breaks down. For Honor is an example of this, boring matches 1 ill-advised attack at a time.

Then the characters that do have safe attacks abuse them to no end and as such we have nothing but WL,PK,Warden,Shugoki, Conq being the only ones able to play th egame at a high lvl. And it's not even that these characters make high lvl gameplay exciting you only have 2 maybe 3 unique attacks that each of them use over and over and that is it. WL nonstop headbutt spam, PK light/zone spam, Warden shoulder bash/top light/zone, Conq nonstop shield bash spam, shugoki oni charge nonsense. Then each of them fishing for GB's and their applicable punishes. Hardly thrilling gameplay when you break it down.

Marvel vs Capcom, Streetfighter, Guilty Gear etc. etc all have much much deeper mechanics and thought process and skill required to do well. This game requires very little skill and knowledge as the mechanics from the core to individual movesets are very shallow and prone to very boring 1v1 staring contest gameplay. Half of any given characters moveset is pretty much useless and never used, attack chains in general for 3/4 of the cast are unusable in 1v1 thx to lights clanking players back to neutral every time on block and heavies being free parries if unfeinted. It's easy to see For Honor was never meant to be a 1v1 oriented game, Dominion is its flagship mode and at it's core is better played as a team game. But even in team modes whenever it comes to a 1v1 on a point between 2 skilled players, the winner is almost invariably the one who's teammate shows up first.

Like seriously, who in their right mind thinks that this scenario is balanced and makes sense for a competitive atmosphere to promote exciting gameplay:

I decide to throw a light attack, supposed to be fast and low risk but also will do minimal damage if it lands. But half the casts light attacks are slow enough that it is incredibly easy to not only block that attack and make it useless every time. But you can just as easily parry that attack and deal 2 or more times the damage of that light attack back at your attacker guaranteed. It could even result in a 1 shot kill on the person who decided to throw a simple light attack lol.

The risk vs reward here is completely out of whack and it's no wonder no one wants to risk attacking at high lvl unless you have lights the likes of what PK has.

Haplo_Bane
04-20-2017, 04:19 AM
It's funny 'cause it's true

Dude_of_Valor
04-20-2017, 11:34 AM
Very funny video. Still I prefer to watch well calculated moves than just smash bash and crash.

Draghmar
04-20-2017, 12:03 PM
Second one is really great parody of turtle/defense meta! :D

But the first one has nothing to do with real fighting (and I didn't expect For Honor will go this way and I hope it won't). They know that they won't hurt each other too much when fighting like that. That's why they are so 'brave' and attack so aggressively. Look at boxing or other martial arts. They don't rush into attack because it's stupid - you can get hurt. And if that was life-death scenario they would think 4 times before charging...they would look for some opening. They would put some feints or lite attacks here and there and look for a way to throw something heavy to finish opponent.

b1gb4d0rc
04-20-2017, 03:44 PM
Video 1 is what you have in every single button-mashing game. For Honor is more tactical... yes, more like the second one, because 1 hit could (should) be fatal.
So, yes, that is For Honor, you don't like that, you can go back to....ermmmm... Dinasty Warriors 24...

Netcode_err_404
04-20-2017, 03:51 PM
Video 1 is what you have in every single button-mashing game. For Honor is more tactical... yes, more like the second one, because 1 hit could (should) be fatal.
So, yes, that is For Honor, you don't like that, you can go back to....ermmmm... Dinasty Warriors 24...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhckuhUxcgA