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View Full Version : Fixnig Nuboshi at high level of play



Oupyz
04-19-2017, 12:52 PM
hey Ubisoft,

1) Can you please fix the slowguard stance of Nuboshi and the other 2 handers , thus we can keep up with assassins light spam , thank you :)
2) Make all upper light attack same speed as the sides light attack
3) Make light attack coming out of hidden stance 100-100ms faster , thus it can be blocked and not parried
4) kick is not being used , cause it's very easy to dodge it and her recovery time is very slow after the kick , she will be punished hard

i really feel bad that most of her light attack is being parried , and she has no way to open up a defender , i even feint light into hidden stance and into another light and that also get parried

hope you will consider some of my ideas

thanks for reading , let the flame begin with Nuboshi is op :)

Dizzy4213
04-19-2017, 01:19 PM
hey Ubisoft,

1) Can you please fix the slowguard stance of Nuboshi and the other 2 handers , thus we can keep up with assassins light spam , thank you :)
2) Make all upper light attack same speed as the sides light attack
3) Make light attack coming out of hidden stance 100-100ms faster , thus it can be blocked and not parried
4) kick is not being used , cause it's very easy to dodge it and her recovery time is very slow after the kick , she will be punished hard

i really feel bad that most of her light attack is being parried , and she has no way to open up a defender , i even feint light into hidden stance and into another light and that also get parried

hope you will consider some of my ideas

thanks for reading , let the flame begin with Nuboshi is op :)

That's a nice list off buffs. I agree with all those changes except for #3. I don't think speeding up the lights out of hidden stance is the way to go, but I'm fine with speeding up the top light to match the side lights. I'd also like to see:

1) Hidden Stance stamina penalty reduced. HS is a what makes her unique, it's a shame it's so costly to use when Nobushi has so little stamina.

2) Kick is carried through dodges. I think it was during the Open Beta that this was stealth patched. Basically, it was a bug that allowed you to use sidewinder then dodge and then kick. I think it would be nice if this was brought back to give little Nobu some better zoning potential since her range is her greatest strength

I think with all those changes, Nobushi would be perfect.

TheLastPandaa
04-19-2017, 01:34 PM
Right now devs believe (and i totally agree) that the nobu is one onf the most balanced (if not the most) chararcter of the game. The tyniest change on her must be very carefully studied and planed otherwise you will break her.

As a rep 8 Nobu player, o dont agree with your buffs.

Oupyz
04-19-2017, 01:45 PM
u know even from skill 17 rating which medium to high not super high like 21-24 , Nuboshi cannot land one light without getting parried

but i'am on pc so console is different , no offence on the low level comment , but they should only balance the game at high skill rating , if they focus on low tier , all characters are unbalanced

Draghmar
04-19-2017, 01:52 PM
Reputation is not the thing that specify your skill level. Not directly. OP is clearly stating that when top players are fighting there issues with Nobushi that could be addressed.
I play mostly as Nobushi but I don't consider myself as a top tier. Medium at best. ;) But I find that parring light attacks happens often and kicks are often dodged when someone know what Nobushi can do. I don't know if this deserve buff in any way but I think at least devs should monitor situation.

I really like the idea of kick being possible after combo: sidewinder, dodge, kick. But I think this could to much. ;)

Edit:

but i'am on pc so console is different , no offence on the low level comment , but they should only balance the game at high skill rating , if they focus on low tier , all characters are unbalanced
That depends on their focus. Lower-medium level is where the majority is and if it also generate income then... :)

PecarCZ
04-19-2017, 01:57 PM
Nobushi really need buff to her light attacks because in duel exp player can easy parry all her Light/heavy attacks.They need buff her light top attack to same speed as LB top light

TheLastPandaa
04-19-2017, 02:35 PM
Reputation is not the thing that specify your skill level. Not directly. OP is clearly stating that when top players are fighting there issues with Nobushi that could be addressed.
I play mostly as Nobushi but I don't consider myself as a top tier. Medium at best. ;) But I find that parring light attacks happens often and kicks are often dodged when someone know what Nobushi can do. I don't know if this deserve buff in any way but I think at least devs should monitor situation.

I really like the idea of kick being possible after combo: sidewinder, dodge, kick. But I think this could to much. ;)

Edit:

That depends on their focus. Lower-medium level is where the majority is and if it also generate income then... :)

i dont know if you say that because of my coment, anyway i totatally agree with you. But only to let things clear here: Acorcing to TRN FH tracker network, im on the #447 - Top 0.1% and on the top 2% with the nobu witch os not even my main character.

The problem with her is that ppl just try to spam so in the end it becomes so easy to parry her, but thats not because of the hero, thats because of ppl who dosnt know how toreally play with her. I can sure you that a good nobu player is almost untouchable not even with a pk.

Oupyz
04-19-2017, 03:12 PM
that's my profile according to for honor tracking leaderboard
1
Paiin-
Top 1% 52,603 2436
2
Feveryo
Top 1% 36,961 2106
3
Zyllex
Top 1% 33,908 1779
4
MaTriX_ManSon
Top 1% 29,897 1435
5
Uponger
Top 1% 27,594 1869
6
Kinseymister.tv
Top 1% 27,416 2114
7
Vigos22
Top 1% 24,967 1356
8
Counteredpie
Top 1% 24,764 1331
9
xamdralin
Top 1% 24,227 1351
10
LordKracen
Top 1% 24,021 1413
11
Tichrai
Top 1% 23,065 1371
12
Nobunaga.
Top 1% 22,750 1878
13
omelet191
Top 1% 22,666 1666
14
AtreyusNinja
Top 1% 22,243 1349
15
Noobushi.
Top 1% 21,543 1108
16
SaulApostle
Top 1% 21,506 1474
17
TopShelfCuck
Top 1% 21,429 1170
18
Crazy-Lisa
Top 1% 21,419 985
19
Fyuran
Top 1% 21,403 1158
20
Natsaru
Top 1% 20,716 1175
21
Gabuniyaa
Top 1% 19,215 1081
22
Oupyz
Top 1% 18,908 1457

i'am top 22, agree to disagree with me , but when i say you cannot land a kick or a light at high level of play , believe me i know what i'am talking about :)

TheLastPandaa
04-19-2017, 03:49 PM
that's my profile according to for honor tracking leaderboard
1
Paiin-
Top 1% 52,603 2436
2
Feveryo
Top 1% 36,961 2106
3
Zyllex
Top 1% 33,908 1779
4
MaTriX_ManSon
Top 1% 29,897 1435
5
Uponger
Top 1% 27,594 1869
6
Kinseymister.tv
Top 1% 27,416 2114
7
Vigos22
Top 1% 24,967 1356
8
Counteredpie
Top 1% 24,764 1331
9
xamdralin
Top 1% 24,227 1351
10
LordKracen
Top 1% 24,021 1413
11
Tichrai
Top 1% 23,065 1371
12
Nobunaga.
Top 1% 22,750 1878
13
omelet191
Top 1% 22,666 1666
14
AtreyusNinja
Top 1% 22,243 1349
15
Noobushi.
Top 1% 21,543 1108
16
SaulApostle
Top 1% 21,506 1474
17
TopShelfCuck
Top 1% 21,429 1170
18
Crazy-Lisa
Top 1% 21,419 985
19
Fyuran
Top 1% 21,403 1158
20
Natsaru
Top 1% 20,716 1175
21
Gabuniyaa
Top 1% 19,215 1081
22
Oupyz
Top 1% 18,908 1457

i'am top 22, agree to disagree with me , but when i say you cannot land a kick or a light at high level of play , believe me i know what i'am talking about :)
Top 22? For sure?
Are you this guy?
k/d: 098
Win ratio:50%
Score: 20 519
top:0.05
http://i64.tinypic.com/5cag4g.jpg
If so i find it funny you even try to talk about high lv play.

But coming back to the subject: As i see you only play with the nobu i dont understan how cant you not know tha t she has some few cute mechanics to let you land unespected kicks (i am not talking about hidden stance btw). Ofcourse you can not spam them, but they still a very usefull tool at high lv. But i play on ps4 with its 30 frames. Maybe on pc is diferent so who knows.

Oupyz
04-19-2017, 03:56 PM
https://fhtracker.com/leaderboards/pvp/pc/SiteScore/hero/SamuraiHybrid


check again and this is only for pc

look very carefully at the leaderboard and my winrate is bad because i have 6 heroes who i have bad ratio with them , focus on Nubo

and we are speaking about pc balancing , if u have the game on pc feel free to add me and we can play few rounds , i will show u the difference between playing on pc and ps4 30fpsvs165fps

believe me u will even reconsider that u said she is good at high level =))

TheLastPandaa
04-19-2017, 04:13 PM
Yes, you are focus on ONE only character and you still have so bad performance when it should be the other way around.

If you want to start a discussion of who has it bigger, you will loose this one with me.
just an example:

warden r5
conq r5
Pk r1
Lb r2
raider l1
wl r7
Zerk r3
valk r2
kensei r8
shug l5
oro l2
nobu r8

Even playing with so many characters, i duble your general performance in every section and even your specific ratios with the nobu that dosnt include bots killing and things like that.
Ofcourse i also spent more time playing fh than you (24 days and 4h vs your 4days and 18h) so i think is fair to presume not only that im a way better player than you, but also a more experienced one in every possible way.

Now, if you want to say that i am a console peasant and i dont deserve any credibility, thats up tu you but i know what i am talking about when i say that Nobu dont need the buff you proposed because that will break her.

Edit to add:
I did not say she was a top tier character like warden for example. I sayed she is the most balanced hero of the game because all his strong points can be countered and her weak points can be hidden from the enemy. is a character that requires SKILL to be used at high lv and to be competitive with it. She has no cheassy mechanics that can be exploited to easy win every fight no matter who you face (like shugo 4 example who is the most broken hero of the game) and yet she can be very dangerous in the RIGHT HANDS making you almost untachble if you keep you mind clear, but she is still a glass cannon and if you let your oponent to drive the fight his way, you will pay it.

Oupyz
04-19-2017, 04:17 PM
I find it funny console players consider themself peasants.

Back to the subject i really wish u have the game on pc so u will understand and see the difference yourself

TheLastPandaa
04-19-2017, 04:42 PM
I find it funny console players consider themself peasants.

Back to the subject i really wish u have the game on pc so u will understand and see the difference yourself

I wish you spend more time playing to actually see how horribly wrong you are. What you are asking is to make a monster out of the nobu because you are not good enoght nor have the enought experience and commons sense to realise that every character of the game shoud be like she is in terms of balance (weak and strong points). You are basically asking for a pk2.0

CandleInTheDark
04-19-2017, 04:51 PM
I wish you spend more time playing to actually see how horribly wrong you are. What you are asking is to make a monster out of the nobu because you are not good enoght nor have the enought experience and commons sense to realise that every character of the game shoud be like she is in terms of balance (weak and strong points). You are basically asking for a pk2.0

And as a pk 1.0 main, the one we have is bad enough when people abuse her.

Oupyz
04-19-2017, 04:55 PM
We will see , iam just glad they are not balancing for the after-thought platforms
Instead focusing on the pc , where pro and tournaments player play

CandleInTheDark
04-19-2017, 05:00 PM
We will see , iam just glad they are not balancing for the after-thought platforms
Instead focusing on the pc , where pro and tournaments player play

And that elitist attitude is why it is a good idea that you are not the one doing the balancing. You really do want pk with longer range whereas a good deal of us using pk are trying to get her down to everyone else.

Oupyz
04-19-2017, 05:09 PM
speeding her upper light attack to match her side attack and fixing her slow guardstance , will make her pk 1.0 ?
really

if so , so let it be

and pk on pc is not as bad as pk on console due to higher frame rate

RunnerRunner22
04-19-2017, 05:24 PM
I think it is safe to assume that Nobushi is weaker on PC since it is easier to parry her lights there.

Also, when talking about the skill level, the only relevant metric is the skill rating for the respective modes. K/d and W/L are irrelevant because naturally your k/d and W/L for Duels will converge to 50% when you have reached your actual skill rating, since your opponents will be just as good as you are.

The only time you have a high W/L in Duel is when you still work your way up through the skill levels until you have reached your level or if you are so good that there are no other players of equal skill so that you get matched against weaker players. (Or if you quit matches before you lose, but this is basically cheating).

Edit: @thelastpandaa
If you boast about your stats, it would be nice to post a link to your FHTR profile.

lDelicious
04-19-2017, 05:36 PM
You should support the original thread where all of this was discussed as the devs already have seen these suggestions....

http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1618041-Nobushi-Issues-Balance-Suggestions

This is a response to a certain individual (you know who you are). Hopefully you find this thread useful.

The reasons are simple:

1) Predictable attacks: Due to the nature of using a Naginata, the vast majority of her attacks will involve a lunge. Add to the fact that changing guard with the Nobushi is quite clunky, it is easy to understand that where her guard is determines where her attack comes from. Even when you use the Sidewinder (with a delay), it is easy to differentiate this move from Cobra strike as one is immediate whilst one is delayed.

2) Attack Speed: The speed of her side attacks are not good, but not bad either. They are at a reasonable speed, but are very easy to parry. This also applies to her top light which comes out slower than her side attacks. Attacking from Hidden Stance also presents the same attack speed (in regards to the first light attack which counts as the second attack in a light chain).

As for Cobra Strike, the attack is also not slow BUT not fast either, and again (due to the nature of the Naginata), makes the attack very mediocre at high level play. The same applies the Sidewinder (which was described above). As for Vipers Retreat, it is understandable that this move is not lightning fast due to the bleed property.

3) Risk vs Reward: The big problem with the Nobushi is that the R.V.R element can be achieved with other characters that are much easier to play. Even light attacking with the Nobushi is extremely risky as most characters get a free side heavy which leaves the Nobushi with little over half HP. As mentioned above, adding to the fact that the Naginata requires most of the moves to involve a lunge, the Nobushi is simply too easy parry.

Even the Sidewinder can easily be parried easily when a player understands how the Nobushi works (which most players do at high level of play). At this point, a Nobushi is left to poke with Vipers retreat, but even this move is easily parried and forces Nobushi players to give up map control for little to no gain. As most of you know, the 1vs1 maps in this game are not the greatest (not enough space, too much un-level ground & etc), thus you can not zone for ever or you will be trapped in an un-favourable position on the map.

This then leads to HS, which can (in certain scenarios), be extremely powerful. The question is whether it warrants the risk. Yes, you can dodge heavy attacks and subsequently get two guaranteed lights (the last hit being a bleed), but is it consistent in actual combat? Only Nobushi mains will honestly be able to answer this question. I for one play with a controller, and as controller players know, the tolerance for HS is extremely small. Not to mention that once your opponent see's you using HS, they will simply turtle / feint bait until they can get a parry (which is also a symptom of the current meta).

-------

At the moment, the amount of effort required to effectively play the Nobushi just isn't worth the effort in comparison to other heroes. Yes, you can catch people off guard initially with the fancy HS and Sidewinder / Cobra Strike mix ups, but at high level play the vast majority of these attacks are easily parried. This is why you see so many Nobushi players turtle up after a while, because playing the parry / GB game is much more effective than continually be parried for close to half of your HP.

Some simple balance changes could include:

1) Increase the speed of HS light attacks: I suggest increasing the speed of the HS light attacks by 5 - 10ms. Whilst this might sound like a small increase, you need to look at the bigger picture. If the opposing player is used to parrying normal Nobushi light attacks (which is a very easy to do), the small ms difference could help alleviate the excessive parrying of the HS attacks which would make it more effective.

The reason why I wouldn't increase the speed of the heavy attacks is because they do considerable damage already.

2) Equalise attack speed for all normal light attacks: As many of you Nobushi mains know, the attack speed of the normal top light is slower than the side lights. By equalising the speed of all three attack directions, it will allow Nobushi players to increase their attack initiation from 2 to 3 directions (if they are using light attacks of course). This

3) ]Allow the Kick to be delayed by 5- 10ms more: This would allow the Nobushi to have a greater chance of having this attack actually hit. The reason I highlighted this point in red is because this move can also be performed unlocked. if the devs confirm that they intended to have certain moves be more effective unlocked, then this suggestion should be ignored.

4) Increase tolerance of HS for controller: Slightly increasing the zone of which HS is activated (on controller), would make the move more reliable in high octane fights. Right now, even if a Nobushi player can hit HS most of the time, there are certain time where the slightest margin of error leads to the Nobushi failing to activate the move and thus take damage.

5) Reconsider light attack punishment*: The reason this point is highlighted in red is because this point depends on what the next balance patch will look like. Nobushi mains know that having a light attack is severely punishing at the moment (considering how easy and predictable they are to parry). Perhaps you developers could look into this because to be frank, it is ridiculous and goes against the whole notion of Nobushis being "light, aggressive fighters" as stated in your marketing.

-----

Bugs that need addressing

1) Guard Stance needs to be looked at as it appears to have a delay. I have been informed that this issue is known to the developers, however, I wanted to re-post it here just to be sure.

2) The Viper Retreat bleed can be applied without hitting the opponent. If a Nobushi keeps activating this move when the bleed tick happens, the bleed will be re-applied even if the Nobushi has not damaged the opposing player.

3) When the Nobushi walks back, unlock, ZA's and then lock back on, it does a very buggy attack that is extremely hard to predict. It is clear that this is not working as intended, so this needs to be addressed; and no, it is NOT tech.

-----

If a Dev comes across this thread, then by all means take these ideas back to HQ. Thanks for reading!

Oupyz
04-19-2017, 06:38 PM
what's the Maximum Skill Rating in for honor tracking 24 ?

@RunnerRunner22

he will not post anything , don't worry

RunnerRunner22
04-19-2017, 07:08 PM
28 is the highest skill rating I've seen for Duels, but I don't know if that's the limit.

Oupyz
04-19-2017, 07:23 PM
Truetalent is a pro tournament player is on 23 , :xD

impressive if someone reached 28

UbiNoty
04-20-2017, 12:55 AM
Thanks for all the feedback guys. While we don't necessarily have any solid plans on any changes to Nobushi for the near future, we are always open to feedback and suggestions from you all. Like Fred said in the other thread - keep the feedback coming! We'll make sure it gets passed over to the team.

Dry.Fish
04-20-2017, 02:45 AM
My k/d is negative 3 but I think hidden stance stamina cost should be decreased