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View Full Version : Getting hit hit with a guardbreak while dodging should not be a thing.



CoyoteXStarrk
04-19-2017, 04:35 AM
Title says it all.

That_guy44
04-19-2017, 04:42 AM
I used to say this as well but it hurts the defense meta a little. How else would you open up an opponent that won't stop dashing?(I dash often myself). If I'm facing a turtle one of my strategies is to feint up close and guardbreak as they dash away. It does help that rolls aren't affected by guard breaks I guess.

Felis_Menari
04-19-2017, 05:14 AM
I am absolutely for GBs on side steps. Back dodging though...that magnet hand bull **** can go die in a fire. I got enough of that crap from banshees in ME3MP.

CoyoteXStarrk
04-19-2017, 05:17 AM
I am absolutely for GBs on side steps. Back dodging though...that magnet hand bull **** can go die in a fire. I got enough of that crap from banshees in ME3MP.

This is mainly what I am talking about

kweassa1917
04-19-2017, 05:24 AM
It does feel really frustrating when you're up against -- for instance -- a class like the PK, with a class like a Lawb... basically the other guy's holding all the cards, and your only option is to try to mitigate as much incoming attacks possible. Your only chance is to try and stay out of light-spam/GB range so you can at least scratch off two options from the PK's cards... and the easiest way to retain distance is by dodging...

...except the PK closes ALL that distance in one move, right back at light-spam/GB range, can't walk out of that light-spam, can't dodge out of light-spam beause GBd... *urggggh*


That being said, I think its still fine -- IF, GBs STOP GIVING OFF FREE HEAVY HITS AS GUARANTEED. If not, well, that sucks, but still can manage.

Bob__Gnarly
04-19-2017, 06:41 AM
The title doesn't say anything, it's just a statement with nothing backing it up.

I love how GBs counter dodge spammers, works a treat.

DovaahisPGM
04-19-2017, 08:13 AM
Works great against fricking peacekeepers so nope

NickyNoNeko
04-19-2017, 08:38 AM
The problem is it removes some char abilities like deflect(you have to dash to trigger deflect) for Orochi, why choose deflect and take the risk to get GB when you can stay neutral and just parry + GB + Heavy riposte ?

Actually I think that dashing should cost stamina, like in dark souls, and in this game if you get GB when exhausted you are punished by a free riposte (riposte is getting by parry in others cases)

TheMalakith
04-19-2017, 09:28 AM
Remove invulnerability frames and make a dodge cost about 25% stamina and it should be good. If you only remove the GB option it will become op as hell.

I just hate the invulnerability frames, the amount of times my poleaxe just flies through them without hitting is getting extremely annoying. They should have to dodge away from an attack not into it (except for deflect).

CandleInTheDark
04-19-2017, 12:56 PM
The problem is it removes some char abilities like deflect(you have to dash to trigger deflect) for Orochi, why choose deflect and take the risk to get GB when you can stay neutral and just parry + GB + Heavy riposte ?

Thing is that is the risk/reward element of it, if anything, going for deflect is too forgiving as odds are if I miss my timing I still get a dodge and gb is the only way to punish that.


Remove invulnerability frames and make a dodge cost about 25% stamina and it should be good. If you only remove the GB option it will become op as hell.

I just hate the invulnerability frames, the amount of times my poleaxe just flies through them without hitting is getting extremely annoying. They should have to dodge away from an attack not into it (except for deflect).

On the one hand yeah that can be annoying, and like I say, the timing is too generous, I go for deflect, miss, oh I get a dodge. At the same time i-frames are pretty much their way of doing a dodge mechanic without having to do an animation that fits every single weapon and attack of that weapon, coming from monster hunter it w as pretty intuitive to me. I do feel at the very least that they need bringing back a little because deflect needs to be less forgiving in terms of if I get that wrong rather than actually trying to dodge I should be eating a hit.

Pope138
04-19-2017, 03:23 PM
A lot of people are complaining about turtling, so I don't think it would be a good idea to take away one of the ways to open up a turtle. If I couldn't feint a heavy into a gb that catches someone dodging I'd have to rely on a headbutt (warlord main) which would make me too predictable.

NickyNoNeko
04-19-2017, 11:36 PM
Thing is that is the risk/reward element of it, if anything, going for deflect is too forgiving as odds are if I miss my timing I still get a dodge and gb is the only way to punish that.


Not really since parry is easier and do more damages :
parry : low risk / high reward
deflect : high risk / low reward

There are only 3 situations where deflect + hurricane blast is more efficient than parry (in dmg): against storm rush, riptide strike and warden zones. There are 152 moves in total in the games, so 3/152 = 1.97 %
1.97% cases where deflect is effective...Should i cry or laugh ?

CandleInTheDark
04-19-2017, 11:39 PM
Not really since parry is easier and do more damages :
parry : low risk / high reward
deflect : high risk / low reward

There are only 3 situations where deflect + hurricane blast is more efficient than parry (in dmg): against storm rush, riptide strike and warden zones. There are 152 moves in total in the games, so 3/152 = 1.97 %
1.97% cases where deflect is effective...Should i cry or laugh ?

Except I am a peacekeeper, I get guaranteed bleed. And honestly, I still believe the high ranked orochi who have clearly made the character work for them than people moaning that they are not good enough to use the kit and so the kit must be flawed.

CaptainPwnet
04-19-2017, 11:48 PM
The problem is it removes some char abilities like deflect(you have to dash to trigger deflect) for Orochi, why choose deflect and take the risk to get GB when you can stay neutral and just parry + GB + Heavy riposte ?

Actually I think that dashing should cost stamina, like in dark souls, and in this game if you get GB when exhausted you are punished by a free riposte (riposte is getting by parry in others cases)

It does not remove the deflect option at all. If you are attempting to deflect heavies that soon that you are getting caught with feint>GB it means you are not timing for a deflect at all but just dodge spamming. If you do the same timing on a light then that can't be feinted to GB.

Your issue of parry>deflect is only an issue because parry is grossly OP and nothing else.

NickyNoNeko
04-20-2017, 12:04 AM
If you watch every good streamers that main orochi, you can see easily that the most efficient tactic is to stay neutral and go for Top Lights and zones most of the time.

I don't like to use flashy moves if they are worthless, I like to be efficient. Fighting games are like maths, for each situations if you have several possibilities, I'll choose the one which has the highest probability to succeed.
And in every cases parry will always be better than others moves. And that's pretty sad actually

CandleInTheDark
04-20-2017, 12:15 AM
Ok, what is going to do more damage?

Parry-guardbreak-heavy

Stornrush or Riptide strike, then either guardbreak-heavy or two top lights?

That is what you get out of using those moves, and thusly the orochi how he is designed to be, in a counter attacking manner, as for the rest, like with any other character, as the guy in the video I showed you said they are best used when the opponent is off balance.

NickyNoNeko
04-20-2017, 12:32 AM
Parry + GB + Heavy do most damages for the lowest risk since you can cancel your parry and back to neutral.

I'm sorry to say that but the guy in the video you showed is not that good, Scott Jund aka damnnohtml is way better and has a deeper knowledge about the game mechanics. Scott hosted several tourney on PC, and one was with more than 1000 dollars for the first price.

And if you look at the best player at the moment, Petemoo, that won 11 tourney with only "basic" and safe moves, you'll understand the sad truth

xLeapingLizardx
04-20-2017, 12:36 AM
I've always thought the same thing, but like everyone said it is one way to open a turtle. And without that dodging would be 100% safe.

My biggest problem is that dodging is something you must do to escape certain moves in the game.
I guess that's what can make vortex's so cheap because the one way you can get out of it is dodging but then they can just guard break.
Warden shoulder bash, dodge but he guardbreaks.
Lawbringer dash forward to act like you going to push they dodge, guardbreak.
Warlord dash forward to act like your going to headbutt they dash, guardbreak.
(In my opinion on if the most annoying ones:) Valkyrie hits 2 lights, goes for a sweep you dodge. Valkyrie hits 2 lights you dodge back but she guardbreaks this time.

It's like almost better to be caught in the vortex instead of dodging to get out of it to possibly encounter an uncounterable guardbreak...
Maybe if the guardbreak was actually counterable? I dunno....

NickyNoNeko
04-20-2017, 12:51 AM
Some links from the competitiveforhonor for you CandleInTheDark

https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/5v91nr/the_problem_with_orochi_is_that_she_is_extremely/
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/62m4ln/help_taking_orochi_to_the_next_level/
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/5zb292/orochis_competetive_future/

CandleInTheDark
04-20-2017, 01:04 AM
Parry + GB + Heavy do most damages for the lowest risk since you can cancel your parry and back to neutral.


Right, so your answer to the question I asked is that a single heavy does more damage than two heavies or a heavy and two lights, good to know :rolleyes: I specifically didn't ask what was less risky, you are playing a counter attacker, that comes with risk and the fact is if you master those moves you get a heavy which you can then follow up with a guardbreak to heavy or two lights. More risk, but if you get it right free damage. The simple fact is that the orochi is where the devs want him in both regular and high level play and this feels a lot like trying to be the squeaky wheel to raise his priority with the devs over characters that truly are underperforming. If you don't like using safe moves, do something about it and learn to use his kit, because he is a counter attacker and it sounds very much like you and every other person that is whining about him are trying to use him as a stand and trade offensive character. His description is agile counter attacker, not stand there and trade safe lights, you might get more out of him if you play him the way he was designed.

NickyNoNeko
04-20-2017, 09:59 AM
Ok you don't seem to understand is not about not to play how it supposed to play orochi but how bad he/she bad designed and balanced. But ok, think what you want man, I would love to see you Bo9 HHHmmm1, or Scott Jund to prove your point. Or maybe ask Petemoo. Yeah ask them and come back to talk to me.

And FYI during the alpha, Orochi deflect was trigger by a simple block, all his/her kit has been nerf

For now i'm done with you.
peace

Nxtgen_Soco
04-20-2017, 11:29 AM
Title says it all.

Yeah lets just let peacekeepers hop around without being caught great idea .......