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NickyNoNeko
04-18-2017, 11:32 PM
I have watched last warrior's den and I was upset that once again there are absolutely no changes about Orochi aka only one oponer (Kensei and others suffer from the same issues but my main is orochi so I focus on her/him).
I have done a poll and hope it will help for a change : https://strawpoll.com/yy1bye7
Nothing.

But maybe I'm wrong actually, and I'm probably not good enough to analyze his/her moveset. Why not, I'm just an average player after all.
And I think the devs know their jobs, when they design something like an attack or a special move, they think at the same time about a counter to that special move. It's how it works for every fighting games. So if the devs have no plans about buffing Orochi, it means that it works as intended. (Irony inside)

There are 12 heroes at the moment, and each heroes have 3 basic atk : 1 Light atk, 1 Heavy and 1 Zone Atk.
And here are all the movesets available in the game :

Warden : Vanguard’s Advance, Guardian’s Assault, Warden’s Wrath, Rushing Slash, Crushing Counterstrike, Shoulder Bash, Shoulder Bash Mix Up : 7 + 3 = 10 moves
Peacekeeper : Twisting Blade, Dervish Strikes, Sword Dance, Slipping Lunge, Deep Gouge, Dashing Thrust, Sidestep Strike, Stab, Riposting Stab : 9 + 3 = 12 moves
Conqueror: Charging Heavy Attack, Conscript’s Attrition, Final Argument, Reaper’s Crush, Full Block Stance, Charging Shield Crush, Shield Bash, Shield Bash Mix Up, Shield Bash Riposte : 9 +2 = 12 moves
Lawbringer : Book, Chapter and Verse, Judge, Jury and Executioner, Swift Justice, Swift Justice Finisher, Impaling Charge, Impaling Riposte, Blind Justice, Light Riposte, Make Way, The Long Arm, Shove, Shove Alternative, Shove Mix Up : 13 + 3 = 16
Nobushi : Poke the Nest, Hiss and Bite, Death Rattle Form, Slithering Thrust, Coiling Slash, Hidden Stance, Cobra Strike, Cobra Strike Mix Up, Viper’s Retreat, Kick, Sidewinder Form, Swift Recoil : 12 + 3 = 15 moves
Shugoki : Charging Heavy attack, Bash and Smash, Bonecrusher, Crashing Thunder, Charge of the Oni, Demon's Embrace, Demon Ball, Headbutt : 8 + 3 = 11
Orochi : Crosswind Slashes, Lightning Strikes Twice, Tidal Wave Slashes, Crashing Wave, Riptide Strike, Storm Rush, Lightning Strike, Zephyr Slash, Wind Gust, Hurricane Blast : 10 + 3 = 13 moves
Kensei : Dawn of the Steel Sun, Spirit of the Inevitability, Form of the Dragon, Doom of the Kensei, Rushing Sweep, Helm Splitter, Swift Strike, Grasping Pounce : 8 + 3 = 11 moves
Warlord : Focused Strikes, Hack and Slash, Crashing Charge, Headsplitter Leap, Headsplitter Leap Alternate, Headsplitter Leap Combo, Board and Blade, Block and Stab, Shield Counter, Shield Counter Combo, Headbutt, Headbutt Riposte, Headbutt Combo : 13 + 3 = 16 moves
Raider : Chop and Poke, Wild Swinging, Winding Slashes, Raider Fury, Stampede Charge, Reaping Charge, Stunning Tap, Rushing Guardbreak : 8 + 3 = 11
Beserker : Dance of the Paired Blades, Bear Mauler, Boar Rush, Head Slicer, Spin Chop, Head Crusher, Slashing Rush : 7 + 3 = 10 moves
Valkyrie : Boar Hunter, Thrust and Slash, Harrier’s Fury, Hunter’s Rush, Pouncing Thrust, Hunter’s Strike, Shield Crush, Shield Tackle, Sholder Pin, Ram’s Headbutt, Spear Sweep, Shield Crush to Spear Sweep : 12 + 3 = 15 moves

So there are : 10+12+12+16 + 15+11+13+11 +16+11+10+15 = 152 moves in total (all chains are counted as a move because of the speed follow-up)

On the subreddit CompetitiveForHonor, an user, iSinner, asked to give him one scenario where deflect is better than parry : https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/65y5us/give_me_one_scenario_where_deflect_on_orochi_is/

Here are the answers :

Deflecting warden zone guarantees hurricane blast for 50 damage
Deflecting Riptide Strike and Storm Rush guarantees hurricane blast for 50 damage


Therefore there are 3 situations where deflect is actually effective and better than parry>>> 3/152 = 1.97 %

Woooooaw, that's amazing, what a good job ubisoft, it's truly stunning, 1.97% that's unbelievable. GG ubisoft, GG.
Ladies and gentlemen, can you applause them because they deserve it.

The most hilarious is Riptide Strike and Storm Rush counter by HB because they're also Orochi's and are also borderline useless
Honestly, I don't know what to feel : should I laugh or feel sad about this ?

But okay, why not. Like I said, maybe I'm wrong, and maybe all the players on competitiveforhonor are not enough experienced, so right now, I'm asking for your help.
Tell me, yeah tell me in which situations are these technics efficient ?
I mean, this char is not supposed to get his/her win ratio from Top Lights and zones only, isn't it ?

So, I'm waiting for your answer


Crosswind Slashes : ?
Lightning Strikes Twice : ?
Tidal Wave Slashes : ?
Crashing Wave : ?
Riptide Strike : ?
Storm Rush : ?
Lightning Strike : ?
Zephyr Slash : ?
Wind Gust : ?
Hurricane Blast : ?

NB : keep in mind because of the turtle meta, all you have to do is block, and go for top lights or feint then top light lights or Zone. Because they are the fastest atk and "hard" to react. The thing is Warden is as fast as orochi (Top and zone) and PK is also as fast as orochi. So why should I pick orochi when PK and Warden do exactly the same thing ?
The answer would be "because you don't play them the same way", but since the meta is just block and go for the fastest atk, all the special moves are worthless in comparison. So you play them the exact same way...

CandleInTheDark
04-18-2017, 11:46 PM
Perfect uses of riptide strike and storm rush in this video, perfectly in keeping with his status as a counter attacker, around 3:20 in, also the guy goes over all the others you mentioned


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3Z_aSRFBlQ

Devs have orochi in the range they want him against others against all but one character so as far as they are concerned they have a lot of things to do before revisiting him and no amount of squeaky wheeling should change that.

cragar212
04-18-2017, 11:53 PM
Shoulda also check out the streamer hhhmmmm1, he is first Orochi to win a PC tourny.

CandleInTheDark
04-18-2017, 11:59 PM
Shoulda also check out the streamer hhhmmmm1, he is first Orochi to win a PC tourny.

Good to know. The complaint over storm rush and riptide strike is one that I am utterly sick of at this point, people want to use them offensively so they are useless...um no they are counter attacking moves, orochi is a counter attacker. I always roll my eyes as a peacekeeper when I see someone telegraphing their storm rush because by now that is free deflect bleed to me but used properly they are brutal punishers.

NickyNoNeko
04-19-2017, 12:02 AM
Perfect uses of riptide strike and storm rush in this video, perfectly in keeping with his status as a counter attacker, around 3:20 in, also the guy goes over all the others you mentioned


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3Z_aSRFBlQ

Devs have orochi in the range they want him against others against all but one character so as far as they are concerned they have a lot of things to do before revisiting him and no amount of squeaky wheeling should change that.

Thank you for answer but it's wrong.

Because parry is better and safer and easier than riptide, and since your opponent can feint, parry > all
Concerning SR, you have to timing it perfectly because your oppponent can continue his chain and break you in the middle of your animation. Si in conclusion, not safe and very situational

NickyNoNeko
04-19-2017, 12:04 AM
Shoulda also check out the streamer hhhmmmm1, he is first Orochi to win a PC tourny.


I know him, and I think that Scott Jund is better imho. All they do most of the time is Top Top Top Top Zone Top Top Top random heavy Top Top Top and zone

NickyNoNeko
04-19-2017, 12:06 AM
Good to know. The complaint over storm rush and riptide strike is one that I am utterly sick of at this point, people want to use them offensively so they are useless...um no they are counter attacking moves, orochi is a counter attacker. I always roll my eyes as a peacekeeper when I see someone telegraphing their storm rush because by now that is free deflect bleed to me but used properly they are brutal punishers.


They are counter move but parry is better and safer as a counter move, so there are no reasons to use them instead of parry. Except if you want to be flashy. I don't want to be flashy, I want to be effective