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View Full Version : Zone Attacks...SERIOUSLY?!



Paladin_Evans
04-18-2017, 02:08 PM
What the hell is the deal with zone attacks? Surely as the name implies they are to clear the zone around you, NOT to spam in a 1v1 duel. They are just pathetic and take no skill to to use, and their speed makes it an almost guarenteed hit if your reactions aren't quite up to scratch.

You shouldn't be able to use zone attacks AT ALL in a 1v1 duel, they are just a joke. People winning with a skilless free hit is ridiculous. They should only work if a minion (soldier) is going to die in the process, or if more than one person is locked onto you.

Some characters it's ok for, like the Raider, Kensei, Warlord, Conqueror, Lawbringer as these are fairly slow and the Warlord doesn't have the most extensive moveset.

For characters like Peacekeeper, Warden, Orochi, Nobushi it's an absolute joke. These 4 are hard to block because of the ridiculous zone attack being faster than their light attacks. It shouldn't work like that.

This is the next bs thing that needs patching.

Draghmar
04-18-2017, 02:19 PM
The idea of zone attack is ok. Even in 1v1. But the execution is much worse. There are to fast and rewards too much because they doesn't force you to do anything, just spam. Especially Warden one is fast as hell. They should be used as a way to attack more then one person at once or to clear minions. I think they could be almost as slow as one Kensei uses (I'd speed it up a little) and make it faster one revenge is up.

cragar212
04-18-2017, 02:19 PM
Well zone attacks are made much worse by the flicker glitch.

If say your zone comes out of right guard but you are in high guard and press light just before heavy the opponent sees the top indicator first making the zone almost guaranteed.

kweassa1917
04-18-2017, 02:52 PM
Well zone attacks are made much worse by the flicker glitch.

If say your zone comes out of right guard but you are in high guard and press light just before heavy the opponent sees the top indicator first making the zone almost guaranteed.


There's actually a very easy fix. A system like this can be seen in some games.

For example, Warden ZA is a right attack from the Warden's PoV, and a left attack from the defender's PoV. The "flicker" problem happens simply because unlike normal attacks, ZA activates to its designated direction directly by just bypassing the stance chance phase of an attack.

The solution? Very simple, actually.

- if ZA activates, you go into forced stance change, and then the skill activates
- when you already are at that stance then the ZA activates immediately to its normal speed.

So with this in place what you will see, is for example, the Warden has a top stance, and then as he tries the 1-button 50/50, the ZA doesn't just come out -- the Warden changes stance to his right, and then it comes out.

Really simple, indeed. No bullshi* 1-button "top-or-side?" 50/50, and the attack speed of the skill itself is not altered. Only the "ZA ignores all stances and just activates" part is retouched, so as with all skills, there is at least a minimum telegraphing of guard/attack stance change -- as with any other skill.

Nothing's "nerfed". It's only making an abnormal skill behave normally.

guffffff
04-18-2017, 03:37 PM
Spot on, when are you releasing your patch kweassa1917 :D

Alustar.
04-18-2017, 04:51 PM
It's not a glitch, it's an empty cancel mechanic. On my PK if I start from right or top stance and perform what's known in fighting games as a "slide input" you will see my hero start from the right or topside before switching.
Every class has this ability and to my knowledge the only one that gets the shaft as far as viability in combat is conquerer.

cragar212
04-18-2017, 04:59 PM
It's not a glitch, it's an empty cancel mechanic. On my PK if I start from right or top stance and perform what's known in fighting games as a "slide input" you will see my hero start from the right or topside before switching.
Every class has this ability and to my knowledge the only one that gets the shaft as far as viability in combat is conquerer.

Hmmm no.

Ubisoft directly said it's a glitch and are in the process of fixing.

Vordred
04-18-2017, 05:56 PM
There's actually a very easy fix. A system like this can be seen in some games.

For example, Warden ZA is a right attack from the Warden's PoV, and a left attack from the defender's PoV. The "flicker" problem happens simply because unlike normal attacks, ZA activates to its designated direction directly by just bypassing the stance chance phase of an attack.

The solution? Very simple, actually.

- if ZA activates, you go into forced stance change, and then the skill activates
- when you already are at that stance then the ZA activates immediately to its normal speed.

So with this in place what you will see, is for example, the Warden has a top stance, and then as he tries the 1-button 50/50, the ZA doesn't just come out -- the Warden changes stance to his right, and then it comes out.

Really simple, indeed. No bullshi* 1-button "top-or-side?" 50/50, and the attack speed of the skill itself is not altered. Only the "ZA ignores all stances and just activates" part is retouched, so as with all skills, there is at least a minimum telegraphing of guard/attack stance change -- as with any other skill.

Nothing's "nerfed". It's only making an abnormal skill behave normally.

i said something similar awhile back, it should be the same as with doing any other attack.

will use the warden, if you throw a top heavy from a side stance, it switches first and then does the attack, but of course if your already in top stance, it comes out right away.

and it does make a difference, if you throw a guy into the wall well in top stance, you can get a top heavy on him, but if you were in a side stance, that little bit of delay well it switches stances cause the attack to be blockable.

ZA attack should follow the same rules as the rest of the attacks.

but as much as i love this game, haven't played for awhile now, the game seem to devolving into more and more of a mess, and short of a heavy rework (which is not going to happen) i don't really see it getting that much better

SlashingElbow
04-18-2017, 05:59 PM
Lol you noobs that cant handle the game are actually killing this game faster then the devs and support staff.. good job

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
04-18-2017, 06:08 PM
It's not a glitch, it's an empty cancel mechanic. On my PK if I start from right or top stance and perform what's known in fighting games as a "slide input" you will see my hero start from the right or topside before switching.
Every class has this ability and to my knowledge the only one that gets the shaft as far as viability in combat is conquerer.

But, It is a glitch, the devs said this was not intended.
I also love how you're defending the flicker seeing as your class is the one that benefits the most from it, considering the fact that it makes you unreactable.

Alustar.
04-18-2017, 06:36 PM
But, It is a glitch, the devs said this was not intended.
I also love how you're defending the flicker seeing as your class is the one that benefits the most from it, considering the fact that it makes you unreactable.

1. I'd defend it even if I didn't main PK cause it's a clever feature.
2. As much as my class benefit s from it I still don't use it unless I have more than 1 opponent.
3 it's not unreactable, it's just not as easy to defend against. I get punished on zone attacks frequently.

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
04-18-2017, 06:45 PM
1. I'd defend it even if I didn't main PK cause it's a clever feature.
2. As much as my class benefit s from it I still don't use it unless I have more than 1 opponent.
3 it's not unreactable, it's just not as easy to defend against. I get punished on zone attacks frequently.

1. It's not a clever feature, it's unintended and benefits certain classes way to much
2. This doesn't change the fact that it is broken in 1v1
3. The average human reaction time is 280 MS, combine that with Deadzones, TV lag and the flicker and it becomes unreactable.

CoyoteXStarrk
04-18-2017, 11:35 PM
Lol you noobs that cant handle the game are actually killing this game faster then the devs and support staff.. good job

Yeah.


How dare we want a balanced game lol



What tools we are :rolleyes:

kweassa1917
04-19-2017, 06:12 AM
Yeah.

How dare we want a balanced game lol

What tools we are :rolleyes:

I actually remember someone who used to exploit the "shadow throw" bug in Street Fighter 2 all the time, who used to say the exact same thing that SlashingElbow guy said.

NickyNoNeko
04-19-2017, 08:45 AM
The problem is not how fast is the zone atk, it's the indicator bug.

that being said, you can easily block the warden zone by reflex, and when you block his zone you get a free GB it's an highly punishable move.

Paladin_Evans
04-19-2017, 04:19 PM
The problem is not how fast is the zone atk, it's the indicator bug.

that being said, you can easily block the warden zone by reflex, and when you block his zone you get a free GB it's an highly punishable move.
Free guardbreak? No? You just knocked back with the force of attack :/

Paladin_Evans
04-19-2017, 04:21 PM
Lol you noobs that cant handle the game are actually killing this game faster then the devs and support staff.. good job
And you must be one of the game ruining players who thinks it's ok to spam this nonsense...

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
04-19-2017, 05:04 PM
Free guardbreak? No? You just knocked back with the force of attack :/

I force out a zone all of the time for a free GB
It's not that difficult.

NickyNoNeko
04-19-2017, 08:39 PM
Free guardbreak? No? You just knocked back with the force of attack :/

Try it with a friend and you'll see. The GB after blocking warden's zone is guaranteed

NickyNoNeko
04-19-2017, 08:43 PM
Free guardbreak? No? You just knocked back with the force of attack :/

Try it with a friend and you'll see. The GB after blocking warden's zone is guaranteed

cragar212
04-19-2017, 09:05 PM
Free guardbreak? No? You just knocked back with the force of attack :/

Yeah you get a free GB off blocked warden ZA. Its still just a guessing game though since most wardens tend to flicker high guard.

Xynrex
04-19-2017, 09:25 PM
I find the ZA of orochi way faster than of warden.

cragar212
04-19-2017, 09:38 PM
I find the ZA of orochi way faster than of warden.

Nah both the same. 400ms i think?

NickyNoNeko
04-19-2017, 11:41 PM
I find the ZA of orochi way faster than of warden.

it's wrong, Big Hat Logan did a full post about it : https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/5ziyt4/accurate_framedata_animationlength_light_and/
tl;dr : Warden zone and Orochi zone are exactly the same : 500 ms > http://i.imgur.com/0wOPGfK.png

RoosterIlluzion
04-20-2017, 02:27 AM
Hehe. I'm not too sure about other heroes off hand, but Warden's zone attack does about 1/2 bar of damage and cost half total stamina. It's fine.