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View Full Version : My idea to destoy the turtle meta



kanuzira
04-18-2017, 11:15 AM
I had the idea to make the first heavy from heavy class + Lawbringer un parriable but only hard blockable ( no damage ) for vanguards with the exeption on a normal block they wil get 40% damage pushed trough, but for the assassin classes they will receive 60% of the damage for a normal block and 40% for a hard block ( because you cand just hold your sword up for an uncomming axe/kanabo etc. Swung by a monserous guy. Assassin's could have their riposte jump timing window somewhat enlarged to make it more fair to them.

Now for the second/third heavy.

Vanguards: 20% pushed trough on a normal block

Assassin's: 30% pushed trough on normal block
25% on hard block

For vanguard to vanguard heavies do 20% of the damage on a normal block and on the second/third heavy 15% everything can be parried due to that the heroes are in the same class.

To assassins heavies are only hard blockable. With on the 1st heavy 30% pushed trough and on the second/third 20% pushed trough

Assassins to assassins same as vanguard, heavies do 20% of the damage on a normal block and on the second/third heavy 15% everything can be parried due to that the heroes are in the same class.

It took some time to come up with this.
Please give your opinion on this or help with giving tips.

Maby this way we can destroy the turtle meta.

Lumina-US
04-18-2017, 11:48 AM
Or maybe, JUST maybe, you guys can stop complaing about and pointing out that so called turtle meta all the time and JUST accept, that this game heavily favors defense.

It's like in the NFL, where they often tend to say, "Offense wins games, defense wins championships".

Long story short - trying to turn the games table into a more attack-favoured playstyle, is only likely to make things worse and will result in "For Honor" turning into an even bigger gankfest than it already is.

And if you are looking for a perfect balance between the best of both worlds - forget it, you'll never be able to achieve that, since tons and tons of players in PVP-focused games, always will take the nearest and cheapest exit for a win.

That's how it is - deal with it.

And btw., at least on XBOX, players are nowhere near turtling that much.
At least in the playing region of Central Europe, they seem to play rather offensive.

ViciousOphidian
04-18-2017, 12:03 PM
I just think attacks should do some amount of damage through block unless parried/deflected. I try to parry 90% of the time which usually gets me wrecked, but that means that if everyone is inclined to parry, even the Defense Pros may get tricked instead of just standing there with their finger on the GB button and showing their guard dance moves.
And throwing people of ledges should be made more difficult somehow though i don't know how they could do this.

Capoupacap
04-18-2017, 01:21 PM
Defense has to stay strong in a fighting game otherwise all these furious skilless player will keep spamming like hell :)

Pope138
04-18-2017, 02:57 PM
Work on your feint game, OP.

Dude_of_Valor
04-18-2017, 03:19 PM
Or maybe, JUST maybe, you guys can stop complaing about and pointing out that so called turtle meta all the time and JUST accept, that this game heavily favors defense.

It's like in the NFL, where they often tend to say, "Offense wins games, defense wins championships".

Long story short - trying to turn the games table into a more attack-favoured playstyle, is only likely to make things worse and will result in "For Honor" turning into an even bigger gankfest than it already is.

And if you are looking for a perfect balance between the best of both worlds - forget it, you'll never be able to achieve that, since tons and tons of players in PVP-focused games, always will take the nearest and cheapest exit for a win.

That's how it is - deal with it.

And btw., at least on XBOX, players are nowhere near turtling that much.
At least in the playing region of Central Europe, they seem to play rather offensive.

Could not agree more especially the part with Xbiox players.

RatedChaotic
04-18-2017, 03:28 PM
Or maybe, JUST maybe, you guys can stop complaing about and pointing out that so called turtle meta all the time and JUST accept, that this game heavily favors defense.

It's like in the NFL, where they often tend to say, "Offense wins games, defense wins championships".

Long story short - trying to turn the games table into a more attack-favoured playstyle, is only likely to make things worse and will result in "For Honor" turning into an even bigger gankfest than it already is.

And if you are looking for a perfect balance between the best of both worlds - forget it, you'll never be able to achieve that, since tons and tons of players in PVP-focused games, always will take the nearest and cheapest exit for a win.

That's how it is - deal with it.

And btw., at least on XBOX, players are nowhere near turtling that much.
At least in the playing region of Central Europe, they seem to play rather offensive.

Agree....I think this "turtle meta" is a myth.... tbh.... If its really a thing show me a video of a player turtling up and going full defense with no attacks ever and winning.

kweassa1917
04-18-2017, 03:39 PM
Or maybe, JUST maybe, you guys can stop complaing about and pointing out that so called turtle meta all the time and JUST accept, that this game heavily favors defense.

It's like in the NFL, where they often tend to say, "Offense wins games, defense wins championships".

Long story short - trying to turn the games table into a more attack-favoured playstyle, is only likely to make things worse and will result in "For Honor" turning into an even bigger gankfest than it already is.

Sounds heckuva lot better than revenge gear scrubs turtling with C-block for back-to-back revenge to 2-shot 1v3 situations and argue that's "skill."



And if you are looking for a perfect balance between the best of both worlds - forget it, you'll never be able to achieve that, since tons and tons of players in PVP-focused games, always will take the nearest and cheapest exit for a win.

That's how it is - deal with it.

Oh people deal with it just fine, thank you. It's just that you're probably the minority in this issue, and the odds are things will change in the favor of people who disagree with you.

So looking forward you to "deal with it" in the future as patches keep coming through, eh? *snicker*



And btw., at least on XBOX, players are nowhere near turtling that much.
At least in the playing region of Central Europe, they seem to play rather offensive.

You mean those guys who lag behind the update curve and talk about the long-gone era which every PC user has since long past?

They're so fascinating, It's like listening to my great-grandfather, rest his soul. :rolleyes:

NeoVidia
04-18-2017, 03:52 PM
I had the idea to make the first heavy from heavy class + Lawbringer un parriable but only hard blockable ( no damage ) for vanguards with the exeption on a normal block they wil get 40% damage pushed trough, but for the assassin classes they will receive 60% of the damage for a normal block and 40% for a hard block ( because you cand just hold your sword up for an uncomming axe/kanabo etc. Swung by a monserous guy. Assassin's could have their riposte jump timing window somewhat enlarged to make it more fair to them.

Now for the second/third heavy.

Vanguards: 20% pushed trough on a normal block

Assassin's: 30% pushed trough on normal block
25% on hard block

For vanguard to vanguard heavies do 20% of the damage on a normal block and on the second/third heavy 15% everything can be parried due to that the heroes are in the same class.

To assassins heavies are only hard blockable. With on the 1st heavy 30% pushed trough and on the second/third 20% pushed trough

Assassins to assassins same as vanguard, heavies do 20% of the damage on a normal block and on the second/third heavy 15% everything can be parried due to that the heroes are in the same class.

It took some time to come up with this.
Please give your opinion on this or help with giving tips.

Maby this way we can destroy the turtle meta.


Saw the whole turtle meta coming since the game was released. But then again, what did you expect if its beneficial to parry an attack more than it is to take a risk to a attack first.

Want to destroy the turtle meta? Remove blocking how it is now, the parry mechanic becomes blocking without the benefits, just make the timing a tiny bit easier. There you go, easy as hell and will never happen.
EDIT: The only ones who should have the current blocking mechanic should be shield users. Its a bit stupid that sporting a shield gives no real benefit other than the 360blockscope. Remove 360 block to make em less effective turtles and give em current block mechanics without a parry. Dodge parry's like valkyrie bleed MIGHT be fine.

Netcode_err_404
04-18-2017, 04:18 PM
Saw the whole turtle meta coming since the game was released. But then again, what did you expect if its beneficial to parry an attack more than it is to take a risk to a attack first.

Want to destroy the turtle meta? Remove blocking how it is now, the parry mechanic becomes blocking without the benefits, just make the timing a tiny bit easier. There you go, easy as hell and will never happen.
EDIT: The only ones who should have the current blocking mechanic should be shield users. Its a bit stupid that sporting a shield gives no real benefit other than the 360blockscope. Remove 360 block to make em less effective turtles and give em current block mechanics without a parry. Dodge parry's like valkyrie bleed MIGHT be fine.

I was thinking the same thing, removing parry and make blocks the new parry would fix a lot of issues, but i doubt they will rebalance the whole game, removing parry entirely

FootlessRhino
04-18-2017, 04:45 PM
Want to destroy the turtle meta? Remove blocking how it is now, the parry mechanic becomes blocking without the benefits, just make the timing a tiny bit easier. There you go, easy as hell and will never happen.


and thus the era of light attacks would begin lol. everyone would play either assassins or shield classes. blocking would become extremely difficult for other classes and shield classes would pretty much stay the same. Of course depends on how much easier would be to perform this block-parry on light attacks but it's hardly a fix in my opinion. people are crying about PK being too fast already, making harder to block will transform people into piles of salt.

Netcode_err_404
04-18-2017, 05:07 PM
and thus the era of light attacks would begin lol. everyone would play either assassins or shield classes. blocking would become extremely difficult for other classes and shield classes would pretty much stay the same. Of course depends on how much easier would be to perform this block-parry on light attacks but it's hardly a fix in my opinion. people are crying about PK being too fast already, making harder to block will transform people into piles of salt.

Well, its just an idea, would be ubisoft's duty to properly balance it in the actual gameplay.

For example lights would lose the stagger ability. just a quick idea.

SirRegisKeg
04-18-2017, 05:23 PM
Or maybe, JUST maybe, you guys can stop complaing about and pointing out that so called turtle meta all the time and JUST accept, that this game heavily favors defense.

It's like in the NFL, where they often tend to say, "Offense wins games, defense wins championships".

Long story short - trying to turn the games table into a more attack-favoured playstyle, is only likely to make things worse and will result in "For Honor" turning into an even bigger gankfest than it already is.

And if you are looking for a perfect balance between the best of both worlds - forget it, you'll never be able to achieve that, since tons and tons of players in PVP-focused games, always will take the nearest and cheapest exit for a win.

That's how it is - deal with it.

And btw., at least on XBOX, players are nowhere near turtling that much.
At least in the playing region of Central Europe, they seem to play rather offensive.

So we're just going headlong into a future game where we start a match where no one attacks for 2 minutes straight until one player gets board of waiting, I'm OK with this because either way I will get good, I just want everyone to understand what you're saying and what will eventually be the standard play style of every player.

Long stare matches until an attack is made and parried.

FootlessRhino
04-18-2017, 05:44 PM
Well, its just an idea, would be ubisoft's duty to properly balance it in the actual gameplay.

For example lights would lose the stagger ability. just a quick idea.

I dunno, I think it would be easier to get rid of full guard stance in general, or make it to last for a very short period of time. like 0.5s so players would have to use it based on reaction and maybe increase the reward a bit.

Netcode_err_404
04-18-2017, 06:42 PM
I dunno, I think it would be easier to get rid of full guard stance in general, or make it to last for a very short period of time. like 0.5s so players would have to use it based on reaction and maybe increase the reward a bit.

Yep, cool idea.

Lumina-US
04-18-2017, 07:14 PM
You mean those guys who lag behind the update curve and talk about the long-gone era which every PC user has since long past?

They're so fascinating, It's like listening to my great-grandfather, rest his soul. :rolleyes:Just quit your PC is DA Masterrace-Schnitzelsh1t already - we know it, (though you're still lacking many great games, like The Last of us or Until Dawn for example - yes, i got a PS4 as well - sack my ballzz) and yet, tons and tons of people, still prefer playing on consoles - so just shut the **** up about it mkay.

But that still does NOT change the fact of what i have seen, when it comes down to how people play FH on XBOX.

Btw. i hope your PC explodes someday (better sooner than later) as a "reward" for being so polite towards console-players - cheers!

UbiJurassic
04-19-2017, 02:11 AM
I had the idea to make the first heavy from heavy class + Lawbringer un parriable but only hard blockable ( no damage ) for vanguards with the exeption on a normal block they wil get 40% damage pushed trough, but for the assassin classes they will receive 60% of the damage for a normal block and 40% for a hard block ( because you cand just hold your sword up for an uncomming axe/kanabo etc. Swung by a monserous guy. Assassin's could have their riposte jump timing window somewhat enlarged to make it more fair to them.

Now for the second/third heavy.

Vanguards: 20% pushed trough on a normal block

Assassin's: 30% pushed trough on normal block
25% on hard block

For vanguard to vanguard heavies do 20% of the damage on a normal block and on the second/third heavy 15% everything can be parried due to that the heroes are in the same class.

To assassins heavies are only hard blockable. With on the 1st heavy 30% pushed trough and on the second/third 20% pushed trough

Assassins to assassins same as vanguard, heavies do 20% of the damage on a normal block and on the second/third heavy 15% everything can be parried due to that the heroes are in the same class.

It took some time to come up with this.
Please give your opinion on this or help with giving tips.

Maby this way we can destroy the turtle meta.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on how to combat the defense meta! The team is currently investigating and testing ways to give offensive play the boost it needs. We hope to have more information and specifics in the future.

Dude_of_Valor
04-19-2017, 10:58 AM
Do people experience this defense meta on the PC only?

If so maybe PC needs to have the switch to GB slower and match console. I know I will be ridiculed for this, but I don't see such meta on Xbox and wonder if the same is true for the PS?

Lumina-US
04-19-2017, 12:27 PM
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on how to combat the defense meta! The team is currently investigating and testing ways to give offensive play the boost it needs. We hope to have more information and specifics in the future.I certainly get the feeling, that you guys don't test anything on consoles and just cater to all the likes and certain dislikes of PCers only...

Like Dude of Valor posted, next to none of this "turtling" is present on XBOX - really, almost everyone i see, goes all-in on offense there (and i haven't heard much about that so called turtle meta from the PlayStation community either) - so please, think twice this time, before just overhauling things you wouldn't even need to.

Or at least keep such changes PC specific only, since the problem only seems to exist there.

Netcode_err_404
04-19-2017, 03:05 PM
I certainly get the feeling, that you guys don't test anything on consoles and just cater to all the likes and certain dislikes of PCers only...

Like Dude of Valor posted, next to none of this "turtling" is present on XBOX - really, almost everyone i see, goes all-in on offense there (and i haven't heard much about that so called turtle meta from the PlayStation community either) - so please, think twice this time, before just overhauling things you wouldn't even need to.

Or at least keep such changes PC specific only, since the problem only seems to exist there.

I remember you they are the same guys who left in the warchdog's code a string "Who cares its the pc version". TRololololololo