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View Full Version : This game is just a human reaction time test



Extropy
04-17-2017, 10:20 AM
Honestly, that's the biggest fundamental disappointment for me. Before the release I expected For Honor would be a tactical and intelligent game where you have to play mind games, outsmart and outmaneuver your enemy, and maybe it is for you if you're one of those people who played competitive street fighter since you were 5 years old and your reaction time is in the top 5% of all humanity, but for me (and I assume most others) the experience is vastly different.

My experience in the game boils down to constantly getting hit by attacks I can do nothing about and feeling like I have zero options or chances to improve. Orochi/Warden do an overhead light or zone, warlord does a headbutt, PK does literally anything and I simply get hit before I have a chance to react. By the time I see the attack I am already hit, before I have a chance to move my guard or push dodge. It's really a demoralizing feeling when you lose, review what you did and realize there's literally nothing you could have done differently. "What should I have done?" "OH ya I guess I should have made my central nervous system process information faster, I'll go buy some crystal meth for my next duel"

And please spare me the "oh but For Honor is actually slow compared to [insert name of niche fighting game with a small playerbase]", I don't care. And unless Ubisoft wants For Honor to also become a niche fighting game with a small playerbase they should look into their game mechanics. Because the current meta of only using attacks that are too fast for the average human reaction time, and getting heavily punished for any slower attack, is awful.

CoyoteXStarrk
04-17-2017, 10:25 AM
That title describe 99% of all competitive games lol

Gray360UK
04-17-2017, 01:27 PM
So ... why aren't YOU doing THIS to THEM?

Are you playing too defensively? There's only so far you can take trying to play mind games before you have to actually hit them with something.

Extropy
04-17-2017, 01:36 PM
So ... why aren't YOU doing THIS to THEM?

Are you playing too defensively? There's only so far you can take trying to play mind games before you have to actually hit them with something.

So you think that two players exchanging attacks that are too fast for either of them to react to makes for fun and engaging gameplay? Might aswell go play counterstrike and snipe each other then. This game could be so much more.

Gray360UK
04-17-2017, 01:54 PM
So you think that two players exchanging attacks that are too fast for either of them to react to makes for fun and engaging gameplay? Might aswell go play counterstrike and snipe each other then. This game could be so much more.

Well, experience tells me that isn't the case anyway. The forums will tell you the same thing, with all the talk of the 'Defensive Meta'. At the end of the day though, there is only so long you can keep pretending to hit someone, keep blocking, and keep guarding. It's not chess. While playing Guard Simulator 2017 might be your idea of fun, no one is going to die playing that way. Sooner or later you do have to attack. You can't mind game someone to death, you have to hit them with something sharp and pointy. Fast attacks are a way around people who just want to defend against everything. They are part of the mind games even. If you're just going to guard against everything and not open up, then they'll attack with something you can't guard against easily, which forces you to either evade or parry or be more aggressive yourself.

You seem to want a world where you can defend against everything they do easily, not get hit, and only attack when it suits you. Have you considered Warlord? ;)

Extropy
04-17-2017, 03:08 PM
I want a world where you get hit because you made a mistake, not because it was impossible for you to react to something in time. Compare For Honor to a game like Chivalry: Medieval Warfare, over there all the attacks are significantly slower than the fastest attack in For Honor and people still get hit regularly, it's a very different combat system but my point is speed doesn't have to be everything.

Look I'm not saying nerf attacks, leave everything the same and let's have a super defensive meta. I'm saying give us tools to get through someone's defense that don't rely solely on reaction time. So far their way of buffing underpowered characters has been purely to increase the speed of their attacks and at this rate everyone is just gonna be spamming 500 ms attacks and safe unblockables and doing nothing else. I don't find such a meta particularly fun.

ViciousOphidian
04-17-2017, 04:03 PM
I don't think For Honor will ever be what you want. They may introduce some new things in the long run, but i think right now they are focused on getting out of Beta.
Based on what you desire in a game i suggest you try DotA 2 and SMITE Arena. And if you don't like them, they're free so...

AzureSky.
04-17-2017, 06:19 PM
Honestly, that's the biggest fundamental disappointment for me. Before the release I expected For Honor would be a tactical and intelligent game where you have to play mind games, outsmart and outmaneuver your enemy, and maybe it is for you if you're one of those people who played competitive street fighter since you were 5 years old and your reaction time is in the top 5% of all humanity, but for me (and I assume most others) the experience is vastly different.

My experience in the game boils down to constantly getting hit by attacks I can do nothing about and feeling like I have zero options or chances to improve. Orochi/Warden do an overhead light or zone, warlord does a headbutt, PK does literally anything and I simply get hit before I have a chance to react. By the time I see the attack I am already hit, before I have a chance to move my guard or push dodge. It's really a demoralizing feeling when you lose, review what you did and realize there's literally nothing you could have done differently. "What should I have done?" "OH ya I guess I should have made my central nervous system process information faster, I'll go buy some crystal meth for my next duel"

And please spare me the "oh but For Honor is actually slow compared to [insert name of niche fighting game with a small playerbase]", I don't care. And unless Ubisoft wants For Honor to also become a niche fighting game with a small playerbase they should look into their game mechanics. Because the current meta of only using attacks that are too fast for the average human reaction time, and getting heavily punished for any slower attack, is awful.

And i want it to be that way, Thank you! :) but you already have a lot easier games to play, for honor was made to that little % of people like me that wants the highest skill ceiling possible, if you want to get into the club go play something that improves your skill and reactions, then come back (i suggest furi in the hardest difficulty, you need to beat the normal one first, this will increase your reaction in games by a lot)

The only bad thing of this (and i accept it too) is that connection is very important in this kind of reaction games, too bad the current netcode sucks, but maybe in patch 1.06 it will be fixed.

AgentCelt
04-17-2017, 06:36 PM
I can just imagine a real war scenario back in the medieval times.

Soldier 1: "But I outsmarted you with superior mind games..."

Soldier 2: "Yeah but my sword is in your head lol gg scrub"

But in all seriousness, this game is the furthest thing from a war simulator. Maybe if it was like 12 v 12 tactics and strategy would matter more. But with 4 v 4 being the max, it all comes down to the best team or the better player. Even dominion is just a glorified game of 4 v 4 domination with all the little soldiers having their own fight.... until you come along and wipe 15 out in one swing.

darkspawn2101
04-17-2017, 06:45 PM
Well, experience tells me that isn't the case anyway. The forums will tell you the same thing, with all the talk of the 'Defensive Meta'. At the end of the day though, there is only so long you can keep pretending to hit someone, keep blocking, and keep guarding. It's not chess. While playing Guard Simulator 2017 might be your idea of fun, no one is going to die playing that way. Sooner or later you do have to attack. You can't mind game someone to death, you have to hit them with something sharp and pointy. Fast attacks are a way around people who just want to defend against everything. They are part of the mind games even. If you're just going to guard against everything and not open up, then they'll attack with something you can't guard against easily, which forces you to either evade or parry or be more aggressive yourself.

You seem to want a world where you can defend against everything they do easily, not get hit, and only attack when it suits you. Have you considered Warlord? ;)

Exept for the fact he's entirely correct, and you can adopt a purely defensive playstyle and win over and over.

Have you seen tournament fights? Have you seen high level play? It's precisely this. And he's not endorsing it, quit strawmaning him.

CrimsonWolf753
04-17-2017, 06:52 PM
Honestly, that's the biggest fundamental disappointment for me. Before the release I expected For Honor would be a tactical and intelligent game where you have to play mind games, outsmart and outmaneuver your enemy, and maybe it is for you if you're one of those people who played competitive street fighter since you were 5 years old and your reaction time is in the top 5% of all humanity, but for me (and I assume most others) the experience is vastly different.

My experience in the game boils down to constantly getting hit by attacks I can do nothing about and feeling like I have zero options or chances to improve. Orochi/Warden do an overhead light or zone, warlord does a headbutt, PK does literally anything and I simply get hit before I have a chance to react. By the time I see the attack I am already hit, before I have a chance to move my guard or push dodge. It's really a demoralizing feeling when you lose, review what you did and realize there's literally nothing you could have done differently. "What should I have done?" "OH ya I guess I should have made my central nervous system process information faster, I'll go buy some crystal meth for my next duel"

And please spare me the "oh but For Honor is actually slow compared to [insert name of niche fighting game with a small playerbase]", I don't care. And unless Ubisoft wants For Honor to also become a niche fighting game with a small playerbase they should look into their game mechanics. Because the current meta of only using attacks that are too fast for the average human reaction time, and getting heavily punished for any slower attack, is awful.

I'm guessing you play on console?

Slower frame rate = less responsive controls and less visual animation of attacks, to make a short summary of it.

On computer the attacks look more telegraphed and fluid, also the controls are better. Parrying lights is normal on PC, whereas on console (in my experience) lights aren't parried all that often.

Maybe the console versions should be slowed down a bit to compensate for the frame rate, and input delay of controllers and the tv

Gray360UK
04-17-2017, 06:59 PM
Exept for the fact he's entirely correct, and you can adopt a purely defensive playstyle and win over and over.

Have you seen tournament fights? Have you seen high level play? It's precisely this. And he's not endorsing it, quit strawmaning him.

Except he can't, and that was the point of his original post, so you don't even know what you are talking about ... :rolleyes:

Worry about your lack of reading comprehension or concentrate on putting your own views forward, rather than trying to take apart mine.

SplugeKing
04-17-2017, 07:20 PM
and maybe it is for you if you're one of those people who played competitive street fighter since you were 5 years old and your reaction time is in the top 5% of all humanity.

Top 5% reaction time in all humanity...Lol

Karma_Ghost
04-17-2017, 08:50 PM
Honestly, that's the biggest fundamental disappointment for me. Before the release I expected For Honor would be a tactical and intelligent game where you have to play mind games, outsmart and outmaneuver your enemy, and maybe it is for you if you're one of those people who played competitive street fighter since you were 5 years old and your reaction time is in the top 5% of all humanity, but for me (and I assume most others) the experience is vastly different..

It sounds like the game you want is Chess.

Herbstlicht
04-17-2017, 08:55 PM
Uhm. You can't react on some stuff on console, no matter how good you are.
However, most stuff is reactable and the game is highly tactical. Only thing here is: decisions are made extremely fast, and often, specially in frentic 4on4's, the outcome is decided in few seconds. So dunno where the problem is ...

fyipa
04-18-2017, 01:10 AM
I agree that reaction speed is important, but it's not everything. At the end of the day, are you having fun?

I'm in my mid-40's, and I'm really bad at the game. I try, but I fumble the combos and am way too slow. Guard break and deflect, nope, not for me. I watch my 12-yr-old play, and he's pretty amazing; I could never play like that.

But I still enjoy the game (until I'm kicked out due to server errors, but that's another story).

teksuo1
04-18-2017, 01:16 AM
yes and no ; albeit more yes than no.

I mean there's a few situations where my "slower" (i'm 30sumthing) reflexes actually helped me.
The guys that love to feint are often confused as i don't always react to their feints and it makes me look good when it happens.

Same thing with foosball. i used to be a great goalie against fancy players since i wouldn't always react to their fancy stuff.
At least i could blame it on the booze in this case :rolleyes:

Frappenstain
04-18-2017, 07:58 AM
And controlled deadzones is ruining those reactions...