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View Full Version : Nerfs and buffs are pointless if you do not fix parries free damage,and defensve meta



Netcode_err_404
04-16-2017, 08:20 PM
Title.

Just a reminder.

CoyoteXStarrk
04-16-2017, 08:24 PM
I know parries and defensive strats have a place in a game like this but jesus christ if they don't piss me off faster than anything else in this game.

When it gets to the point that I cannot land a single hit because of blocking and parries it just gets so damn frustrating.


"STOP BLOCKING AND LET ME HIT YOU GOD DAMMIT" - Me

Netcode_err_404
04-16-2017, 08:27 PM
I know parries and defensive strats have a place in a game like this but jesus christ if they don't piss me off faster than anything else in this game.

When it gets to the point that I cannot land a single hit because of blocking and parries it just gets so damn frustrating.


"STOP BLOCKING AND LET ME HIT YOU GOD DAMMIT" - Me

Ever meet a last standing guy in elimination camping on a bridge, completely passive ? Thats a player who knows how to play this broken game.

"Im here, i dare you to attack me, so i can parry > GB > cliff"

And here that lies the funny part, because in a couple of hours this thread will fill with parry gods who will insult me because im trashhhhh!!!!

CoyoteXStarrk
04-16-2017, 08:29 PM
Ever meet a last standing guy in elimination camping on a bridge, completely passive ? Thats a player who knows how to play this broken game.

"Im here, i dare you to attack me, so i can parry > GB > cliff.

The environmental kills are the only thing in this game that takes me from 0 to pissed in a single moment.


No skill required. Just a button mashing fest of GBs and GB couters until one of us lands it finally and over the cliff you go.


Its complete BS

Hillbill79
04-16-2017, 09:34 PM
The environmental kills are the only thing in this game that takes me from 0 to pissed in a single moment.


No skill required. Just a button mashing fest of GBs and GB couters until one of us lands it finally and over the cliff you go.


Its complete BS

There is skill required though, both on his part to achieve it, and your part to avoid it. If you fall, you lose, if he falls he loses.

DON'T FALL!

Netcode_err_404
04-16-2017, 09:39 PM
There is skill required though, both on his part to achieve it, and your part to avoid it. If you fall, you lose, if he falls he loses.

DON'T FALL!

Waiting 5 minutes because you won't move from your precious bridge, sounds boring.

You are free to stay there passive, I am free to quit the game, if my quit will make the game crash, blame ubisoft.

CoyoteXStarrk
04-16-2017, 09:44 PM
There is skill required though, both on his part to achieve it, and your part to avoid it. If you fall, you lose, if he falls he loses.

DON'T FALL!

No it doesn't take any skill to keep mashing a single button over and over until your opponent misses the GB counter.


Environmental kills exist and that is something myself and others have to deal with but don't sit there and act like its some great skill.


Because its not.

Netcode_err_404
04-17-2017, 01:43 AM
Environmental kills are the last of the problems right now.

Parry is too powerful, defensive gameplay is too powerfull, only a bunch of classes can bypass that with spammable bashes, such classes like warden will get a nerf, and warlord is the next.

If they nerf thiese stuff before addressing the defensive meta issue, this game will be nearly unplayable for the majority of the people.

They clearly didn't thought people would bore themselves for 7 minutes just to win a single elimination round. Well nerds do such stuff. Now we all hope they fix it

Netcode_err_404
04-17-2017, 01:17 PM
I was considering parry may not be the only issue here.

Blocks are way too powerfull too, blocking an attack should cost a significant amount of stamina. I mean you need to decide, if you want attack or defend, at the moment you can defend all you want with no cons, seems a little too much.

Sykoink
04-17-2017, 01:49 PM
I was considering parry may not be the only issue here.

Blocks are way too powerfull too, blocking an attack should cost a significant amount of stamina. I mean you need to decide, if you want attack or defend, at the moment you can defend all you want with no cons, seems a little too much.

Doesn't this get you utterly destroyed in a game mode like Dominion when you are in situations (which happen a lot) where you have to fight multiple attackers? They already nerfed the revenge mode and i understand why but that also gave people a chance to fight off multiple attackers. What happens if you change/nerf the parrying and blocking in the game, people wouldn't stand a chance i think :O Especially of blocking costs a significant amount of stamina. A couple of blocks from different angles because 2 or more people are attacking you would drain you in an instant. Btw, i'm not trying to argue or attacking your opinion, i'm just adding to the discussion and i'm curious what you think about this.

Netcode_err_404
04-17-2017, 02:09 PM
Doesn't this get you utterly destroyed in a game mode like Dominion when you are in situations (which happen a lot) where you have to fight multiple attackers? They already nerfed the revenge mode and i understand why but that also gave people a chance to fight off multiple attackers. What happens if you change/nerf the parrying and blocking in the game, people wouldn't stand a chance i think :O Especially of blocking costs a significant amount of stamina. A couple of blocks from different angles because 2 or more people are attacking you would drain you in an instant. Btw, i'm not trying to argue or attacking your opinion, i'm just adding to the discussion and i'm curious what you think about this.

Is true.

However it can be bypassed with a simple fix.

-All hits blocked outside the lock on will be stamina free.

MumfordDaHound
04-17-2017, 02:55 PM
Block has no punish to it, parry does. If you miss the parry you eat a hit. I have no issue with parry. Block should have a higher chip dmg maybe, that way it forces you to try and parry more which leads to human error and more hits.

Netcode_err_404
04-17-2017, 03:49 PM
Block has no punish to it, parry does. If you miss the parry you eat a hit. I have no issue with parry. Block should have a higher chip dmg maybe, that way it forces you to try and parry more which leads to human error and more hits.

rISKS ? How ? Parries can be feinted as well as heavies.

What risks do you see ? If parry will allow me to have free dam,age or a free GB, whats the point in attacking in the first place ? Look tourneys, top players barely attack with something else than a fast or ultra safe bash. Thats why nobody watchthem, because they are boring as **** to see.

Peligrad
04-17-2017, 03:58 PM
I have been saying exactly what the OP said in the title for 2 months now.

They'd be better off reworking the whole combat system first, putting emphasis on the "art of war" zone combat and away from parry and GB and THEN balancing/reworking kits.

Of course, the team on this game is incompetent, hence why they have lost 99% of their player-base in 2 months.

MumfordDaHound
04-17-2017, 03:58 PM
rISKS ? How ? Parries can be feinted as well as heavies.

What risks do you see ? If parry will allow me to have free dam,age or a free GB, whats the point in attacking in the first place ? Look tourneys, top players barely attack with something else than a fast or ultra safe bash. Thats why nobody watchthem, because they are boring as **** to see.

If you miss time the parry you get hit, which happens a lot. Nobody parries everything, once in awhile they may but everyone screws up. If they block add chip damage to it (or more then now).

Dizzy4213
04-17-2017, 04:29 PM
I think parries are fine. Blocking costing stamina or taking chip damage from light attacks wouldn't be fair on the heroes with a low stamina pool. What they need to do is add meaningful chip damage from heavies. For example, if you block a heavy you'll take 10 chip damage. This then forces the opponent to parry if they don't want to take the damage. At this point, you can play mind games with your opponent to bait a parry. Only problem with this is assassins who have invincibility frames on their dodges and can avoid the damage altogether.

Netcode_err_404
04-17-2017, 05:04 PM
I think parries are fine. Blocking costing stamina or taking chip damage from light attacks wouldn't be fair on the heroes with a low stamina pool. What they need to do is add meaningful chip damage from heavies. For example, if you block a heavy you'll take 10 chip damage. This then forces the opponent to parry if they don't want to take the damage. At this point, you can play mind games with your opponent to bait a parry. Only problem with this is assassins who have invincibility frames on their dodges and can avoid the damage altogether.

10 damage is a joke.

ANd parries are not fine, if they can guarantee free damage every time.

Blocking needs a rework, as well as parries. Seems pretty logic.

If they will balance each class, low stamina poll ones won't be affected.

MumfordDaHound
04-17-2017, 05:08 PM
10 damage is a joke.

ANd parries are not fine, if they can guarantee free damage every time.

Blocking needs a rework, as well as parries. Seems pretty logic.

If they will balance each class, low stamina poll ones won't be affected.

10 dmg is more then some lights. I don't get why risking parrying an attack vs a block isn't a risk? You get chains to start etc. It'll force ppl to block less (turtle) and try and parry more attacks, ppl will screw up.

Netcode_err_404
04-17-2017, 07:53 PM
10 dmg is more then some lights. I don't get why risking parrying an attack vs a block isn't a risk? You get chains to start etc. It'll force ppl to block less (turtle) and try and parry more attacks, ppl will screw up.


When 2 competent players will fight they both will avoid to attack because they know they could get parried.

Thats the main issue here. There are some classes that heavily rely on comboes and are absolute garbage, why ? Because its obvious they will get parried. And getting parried opens a lot of possobilities such as free heavy, free wall + top heavy, free gb.

Can you see the problem ? When people turtle and go for paaries if you class does't have a noob spammabe dash, you are screwed

MumfordDaHound
04-17-2017, 09:55 PM
When 2 competent players will fight they both will avoid to attack because they know they could get parried.

Thats the main issue here. There are some classes that heavily rely on comboes and are absolute garbage, why ? Because its obvious they will get parried. And getting parried opens a lot of possobilities such as free heavy, free wall + top heavy, free gb.

Can you see the problem ? When people turtle and go for paaries if you class does't have a noob spammabe dash, you are screwed

Thats why blocking has chip then, you turtle you take damage just blocking. I main LB for the most part so I know what slow attacks can do to you.

Netcode_err_404
04-17-2017, 11:50 PM
Thats why blocking has chip then, you turtle you take damage just blocking. I main LB for the most part so I know what slow attacks can do to you.

Blocking a locked target must consume stamina.

Parry needs to stop to guarantee free damage

Comboes need to not be interrupted by sim'ple blocks. Or kense, LB, and any other class without mix ups, will be left behind

invalid target0
04-18-2017, 12:11 AM
Holy **** the whole game is parry. I have serious questions about the dev's competence to fix this game.

MumfordDaHound
04-18-2017, 12:48 AM
Blocking a locked target must consume stamina.

Parry needs to stop to guarantee free damage

Comboes need to not be interrupted by sim'ple blocks. Or kense, LB, and any other class without mix ups, will be left behind

One thing that might help is when you get parried you don't lose a ton of stamina, it's the exhausted thing that gets you killed after a parry. Lose some but that can scare ppl to not attack cause they will get wasted once out of stamina.

Netcode_err_404
04-18-2017, 12:48 PM
One thing that might help is when you get parried you don't lose a ton of stamina, it's the exhausted thing that gets you killed after a parry. Lose some but that can scare ppl to not attack cause they will get wasted once out of stamina.

IMHO game would be better without parry, but its a part of the game, and needs to be usefull, just not THAT much.

Slow class without mix ups is basically a gg against parry kings