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View Full Version : Zero A6M2 and AM5a in AEP 2.04 big problem!



semitary_gates
08-12-2004, 01:06 PM
Hello everyone

I'm an entusiast of the Japanese Zero's. I've bought the IL2: Forgotten Battles with the Ace Pack and I'm flying the Zero about 99% of the time. But I've found some errors that really are bothering me. I'm studing for aeronautic engeneering and I'm researching a lot about the Zero's. Please, reaply if you have noticed it too or if I'm wrong. I would be pleased with any comments. The errors are:


* the altimeter's bigger needle displays the 1000's (thousand) meter and the little one seems inoperative. The correct would be the bigger one for 100's meter(hundred) and the little one for the thousand

* the airspeed indicator show airspeed in km/h when the correct would be knots. The size of airspeed indicator is correct to the real thing, like where it is written "14" that would mean 140 kts but the aircraft is at 140km/h. The bigger number at the indicator is "30" that means 300kts. But in the game you are usely above the "30" and the airspeed ind. seems inoperative beacuse actualy it's saying that you are above 300km/h (no more than 170 kts) and that's very common in dogfights (to be above 170kts). Just for comprovating that I'm right on my point: do you realy think that Zero max speed would be 300 km/h?!

* Zero seems to be a bit slower than actual thing. I've read from a lot of fonts and all they said that max airspeed at 2600rpm and 40"MP would be about 540 km/h. I just can reach it when I dive for several seconds. I can't reach over 400 km/h with the plane leveled, usely.

* Zero looses too much power at high altitudes. It ceiling is about 30.000ft but when you get closer your speed decreases too much. You can't fly above 220km/h at these altitudes. Before you say, yes, I've tried to disable the option to control the mixture, so it was controled automatic by the game.

* I think that the gunsight is a bit "fogged" (I realy can't find a better word). I don't know if it was intended to be like that or if my ViedoCard (GF 5200 FX) is the problem but you can't see very clearly trhout it like you can on all other airplanes.


You may compare the cockpits in the IL2 and in CSF2, where the Zero shows correctly the airspeed and the altitude and reach higher speeds.

When I say Zero, I mean both A6M2 and A6M5a. I think that most people don't even noticed the indicators bug beacuse they usuely fly with the 'speed bar' on, but I realy like to do it like the real thing. And sure the Model 52 has some extra power over the Model 21, but both are with the "not reaching high speeds" problem

Well, I think that I may be wrong. If all of this is my mistake, PLEASE, reply it to me and I'd be very greatfully. I'm just trying to make the game better. I realy think that IL2 is the best simulator ever, no doubt about it.

Thanks for reading and sorry about my English (I'm a Brazilian guy).
Gilberto Agostinho (semitary_gates@yahoo.com)

semitary_gates
08-12-2004, 01:06 PM
Hello everyone

I'm an entusiast of the Japanese Zero's. I've bought the IL2: Forgotten Battles with the Ace Pack and I'm flying the Zero about 99% of the time. But I've found some errors that really are bothering me. I'm studing for aeronautic engeneering and I'm researching a lot about the Zero's. Please, reaply if you have noticed it too or if I'm wrong. I would be pleased with any comments. The errors are:


* the altimeter's bigger needle displays the 1000's (thousand) meter and the little one seems inoperative. The correct would be the bigger one for 100's meter(hundred) and the little one for the thousand

* the airspeed indicator show airspeed in km/h when the correct would be knots. The size of airspeed indicator is correct to the real thing, like where it is written "14" that would mean 140 kts but the aircraft is at 140km/h. The bigger number at the indicator is "30" that means 300kts. But in the game you are usely above the "30" and the airspeed ind. seems inoperative beacuse actualy it's saying that you are above 300km/h (no more than 170 kts) and that's very common in dogfights (to be above 170kts). Just for comprovating that I'm right on my point: do you realy think that Zero max speed would be 300 km/h?!

* Zero seems to be a bit slower than actual thing. I've read from a lot of fonts and all they said that max airspeed at 2600rpm and 40"MP would be about 540 km/h. I just can reach it when I dive for several seconds. I can't reach over 400 km/h with the plane leveled, usely.

* Zero looses too much power at high altitudes. It ceiling is about 30.000ft but when you get closer your speed decreases too much. You can't fly above 220km/h at these altitudes. Before you say, yes, I've tried to disable the option to control the mixture, so it was controled automatic by the game.

* I think that the gunsight is a bit "fogged" (I realy can't find a better word). I don't know if it was intended to be like that or if my ViedoCard (GF 5200 FX) is the problem but you can't see very clearly trhout it like you can on all other airplanes.


You may compare the cockpits in the IL2 and in CSF2, where the Zero shows correctly the airspeed and the altitude and reach higher speeds.

When I say Zero, I mean both A6M2 and A6M5a. I think that most people don't even noticed the indicators bug beacuse they usuely fly with the 'speed bar' on, but I realy like to do it like the real thing. And sure the Model 52 has some extra power over the Model 21, but both are with the "not reaching high speeds" problem

Well, I think that I may be wrong. If all of this is my mistake, PLEASE, reply it to me and I'd be very greatfully. I'm just trying to make the game better. I realy think that IL2 is the best simulator ever, no doubt about it.

Thanks for reading and sorry about my English (I'm a Brazilian guy).
Gilberto Agostinho (semitary_gates@yahoo.com)

Jieitai_Tsunami
08-12-2004, 03:00 PM
Hi semitary_gates,

My squad should be flying primary the A6m2 at the moment, but we will move up later.

I have also been doing some research on the Zero from a pure Zero engineering and flying site. With interviews from Saburo sakai on how to fly the Zero. Though it is all in Japanese http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

When I'm reading I have to ignore some of the info because it just isn't in the game. And IL2 has always been working in Meters and Knots when not all countries use them. The Zeros gauges are also not finished I guess so, the altimeter is almost useless to me. So I just use the ingame digital info when I need it.

The sight needs some getting used to but I see it as the best in the game. You can judge distance perfectly when you remember how.. Try zoom in.

The Zero does naturally loose power and I guess this is more engine mechanics? You can tell the Manifold or what I like to call 'Boost gauge' goes down as you climb. The Zero naturally does not have good power so you must use your mix and RPM/ fuel selectors (If these were in the game http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif). To get your engine working perfectly. I'm working on that right now and can fly fine at 7000ms.

Main thing, this is a game, the Zero is not complete yet, you must compensate http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. But the Zero is truly a fine plane! and I have worked around almost all so called bugs!

P.S I'm always happy to see Zero fans, hope to see you online some time. Maybe show you what our squad can do, when all members know what they are doing that is http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

http://www.jieitai.bravehost.com/http://www.jieitai.bravehost.com/Images/Main%20logo.jpg

Cajun76
08-12-2004, 03:13 PM
At altitude, Indicated Airspeed (IAS) is different than True Airspeed (TAS). For a quick way to test, turn cockpit off (Ctrl F1) to see TAS. Also, you won't reach max speed at sea level. Don't know best speed at which altitude myself, but the Zero was generally slower than it's opponents at all altitudes they shared.

Good hunting,
(56th)*Cajun76
http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/p47nh.jpg
If you have trouble hitting your objective, your secondary targets are here and here,
an accordian factory and a mime school. Good luck, gentlemen. - Admiral Benson

mortoma
08-12-2004, 05:16 PM
Are you sure the airspeed indicator was in knots??
Why would the Japanese use knots? The use of knots ( correct me if I'm wrong ), started in the U.S. after WWII. All the American planes used in WWII, as far as I know, used miles per hour (MPH). Only the U.S. and British Navies used knots, as did most civilians mariners. Maybe the Japanese used MPH and you're confusing knots and MPH?? There is a big difference, 100 knots is 115.07 miles per hour.

semitary_gates
08-12-2004, 10:30 PM
Hello all of you, thanks a lot for replying. Let me reply all of you in one single message:

* Yes, I think that Zero gauges are not so accurate because there are only 2 japanese types of aircraft against very much US, Russian and German aircraft. So they may not be well finished, but I realy would expect that it was... hope Pacific Fighters make it better http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
You said that you can fly fine at 7000m. But actualy both model 21 and 52 could reach and fly at about 10000m. And I'll visit your site too, I really like to talk to other Zero enthusiast http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

* the max speed that Zero reaches that I've said I'm pretty sure that is IAS and not TAS. I realy read from very comfiable fonts that it reaches about 540 km/h IAS... and yes,I agree it is slower but not that much. I've seen a test of a Zero against a Spitfire V (I can send the test in .txt for you if you want) and near the Zero ceiling, at 27k ft, Zero was only 25mph slower than the spit. Now try it in the game... you'll see the spit running away VERY fast even when you aplicate full power and WEP in model 52...

* Yes, I'm sure Zero indicator was in kts. Try looking at google about it, but I'm sure of it. Look pictures of the real cockpit, the mas number is, like I said, 30 that means 300. Now do you think that japanese would make a gauge that displays only less than 300km/h when the airplane can fly at 540km/h? It was in kts for sure. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks you all for replying, realy made me happy. Well, I'm looking for tha and ubi adress that I can send theis report so if they make a now patch, these thing would get improved. Or, the probably thing that I'll do, I'll expect for Pacific Fighters.

Thanks again guys, I'm waiting for new comments
Nice flights
Gilberto Agostinho

semitary_gates
08-12-2004, 10:34 PM
Sorry, last phrases got wrong and I think they can't be understood. Let me correct myself:

-----------------------------------------------

* Yes, I'm sure Zero indicator was in kts. Try looking at google about it, but I'm sure of it. Look pictures of the real cockpit, the MAX number at the gauge is, like I've said before, 30 that means 300. Now do you think that japanese would make a gauge that displays only less than 300km/h when the airplane can fly at 540km/h? It was 300kts, so it was kts for sure

Thanks you all for replying, realy made me happy. Well, I'm looking for a ubi adress that I can send this report so if they make a now patch, these thing would get improved. Or, the probably thing that I'll do, I'll expect for Pacific Fighters.

-----------------------------------------------

Gilberto Agostinho

WUAF_Badsight
08-12-2004, 10:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cajun76:
Don't know best speed at which altitude myself, but the Zero was generally slower than it's opponents at all altitudes they shared.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

did he at first mention other planes at all ?!?!?!?!

he said the ZEROs top speed

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WUAF_Badsight
08-12-2004, 10:38 PM
the Zeros gunsite is "fogged" because it was drawn that way by the maker of the FB Zeros cockpit

the orange lines of the gunsite are "glowing" & do not have definite edges , which adds "haze" to the clear parts of the gunsite glass

.
__________________________________________________ __________________________
actual UBI post :
"If their is a good server with wonder woman views but historic planesets...let me know!" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2004, 11:49 PM
Semitary Gates? Is that a Smiths reference? If so, cool! I was also a big fan! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As to your Zero woes, if you want to finally fly a well modeled Zero, may I direct your attention to Target:Rabaul (http://www.targetware.net).

WTE_Galway
08-13-2004, 12:04 AM
i had the impression that knots was very common in aviation pre-WWII

knots makes a lot of sense because the nautical mile is directly related to degrees of longitude on maps in a way that simplifies navigation

the measurement that makes the least sense is MPH becaus ethe mile is an arbitary distance that is not related to anything else

semitary_gates
08-13-2004, 12:58 AM
Hello everyone again.

Yes, semitary gates is a Smiths and Ramos (pet semitary) reference that explain the switched letters http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I'm going to visit the link you sent me Stiglr, hope I can find a better model. thanks

About the knots I researched again today about it and I'm very sure about the Zero's airspeed indicator's unit.

I've said above that I've found a test of Spitfire V vs. Zero. here goes the link for it:

http://www.tgplanes.com/Public/snitz/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=161

It's a very interesting test, reply saying what you think about it. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Well, returning to my point, I pretty sure that the gauges are with some problem in IL2. About the "fogged" gunsight, well, I understand it but I do not like it, yet. But about Zero performance, I really think that's IL2 major problem. I'm going to look in the link that Stiglr and see if I can find a better model.

Well, thank you guys. I think I've found an e-mail adress intended to be used for beta testers, hope that they read my msg since I'm not a tester.

See you and nice flights
Gilberto Agostinho

gorillasika
08-13-2004, 01:56 AM
Hello and welcome to FB,

You can send reports of real bugs to il2beta@1c.ru

You can also discuss this on the Pacific Fighters forum, where I think might be even more knowledge about, well, pacific fighters.

Jieitai_Tsunami
08-13-2004, 03:42 AM
If you are interested in gauges, I think this is probably the best gauge site I can find:

http://www.sam.hi-ho.ne.jp/ki-44/index.htm

About knots, I'm not sure about if Japan used knots but why would they only be used lately when knots are 100s of years old??.

I have also been flying in TR for afew months, but people on this forum seem to think it is krap http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif. I love the complex engine management as opposed to IL2 arcade engine management lol.

http://www.jieitai.bravehost.com/http://www.jieitai.bravehost.com/Images/Main%20logo.jpg

semitary_gates
08-13-2004, 07:26 AM
Hello guys

Yes, htat was the adress that I've emailes with the bugs I mentioned in this post. About the Target Kabul, I didn't undersant what it is very well. My connection is a **** here and I'm waiting to go to a friends house whom have DSL and then I'll donwload. From what I've read, I understood that it is a MOD to something called Targetware or somehting like that... well, I don't think here is the right place to talk about this http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I'm realy interested in the japanese's gauges and I really find that link impressive, from tsunami.
One lack of IL2 to other sims is that I cannot have a axis for controling mixture (I have a complex throtlle myseld and can't use it with full capabilities). Even CFS2 had mixture axis... and you can't pilot 2 engine aircraft with 2 engine axis too, you have to use only one....

Well, I'll post this on Pacific Fighters Forum. I agree it'll be better located and would previne they from using this AEP Zero model on PF.

Thank you all, have nice flights
Gilberto Agostinho

XyZspineZyX
08-13-2004, 08:38 AM
Tsunami wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...but people on this forum seem to think it [Targetware] is krap <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>.

That's not entirely true. We've had some people go over and try it, see in 10 minutes that it's not a carbon copy of IL-2 and proclaim it's not for them. Well, maybe because they can't immediately roar off into the sky at full throttle (they crash on take off because there actually is torque and P-factor), and get kills immediately, it must be ****. They don't even spend enough time to learn the distinct ways Targetware is different from IL-2 (and in many aspects, superior).

Also, some have trouble getting set up. Despite a pretty comprehensive User's Guide, prominently linked to on the front page, people don't "RTFM", and then blame the sim because "it doesn't work". And, admittedly, there are a couple of setup types that are problematic. A visit to the Targetware forums, similar in setup to this one, and a post will usually get you help within hours or even minutes.

On the other hand, I've seen some folks over there whose handles I recognized from here, and some folks have sent me email mentioning the fact that they've come from IL-2 land. And many of them are staying, even though it's in beta, and numbers are low due to the "under the radar" profile Targetware is taking until it's truly ready for prime time. And it's getting pretty close to that lately.

As always, I challenge people to 1) get acquainted with the flight model, the engine and fuel management and things of that nature and then 2) explore some of the matchups, like the A6M2 Zero vs. the F4F Wildcat, the Zero vs. the P-40E Warhawk, and see for themselves how eerily accurate it is to real-life accounts. You'll see how the Zero is a real killer at low speeds, but a bear to handle past certain speeds (you have to keep the stick forward just to keep the nose down!!), but then you'll also see how US planes use their superior roll and dive capabilities to frustrate and hold off the Zero. It *really* happens that way in Target:Rabaul.

CRSutton
08-13-2004, 10:54 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>


* Yes, I'm sure Zero indicator was in kts. Try looking at google about it, but I'm sure of it. Look pictures of the real cockpit, the mas number is, like I said, 30 that means 300. Now do you think that japanese would make a gauge that displays only less than 300km/h when the airplane can fly at 540km/h? It was in kts for sure. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Thanks again guys, I'm waiting for new comments
Nice flights
Gilberto Agostinho<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am guessing that it is because the zero was a navy plane. Custom and server interservice rivalries might have come into play. Just a guess. Were Japanese army planes dials in knots as well?

Cajun76
08-13-2004, 11:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Stiglr wrote:
.......... 2) explore some of the matchups, like the A6M2 Zero vs. the F4F Wildcat, the Zero vs. the P-40E Warhawk, and see for themselves how eerily accurate it is to real-life accounts. You'll see how the Zero is a real killer at low speeds, but a bear to handle past certain speeds (you have to keep the stick forward just to keep the nose down!!), but then you'll also see how US planes use their superior roll and dive capabilities to frustrate and hold off the Zero. It *really* happens that way in Target:Rabaul.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Some of those matchups happen in IL2, and I can use high speed vector rolls, dives, and high-speed, shallow climbs to outmanuever and position myself to an advantage. It "really" happans here, too. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif When PF comes out, we'll be able to get a Wildcat matchup, too. Wingman a must against Zero's. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Good hunting,
(56th)*Cajun76
http://img12.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/p47nh.jpg
If you have trouble hitting your objective, your secondary targets are here and here,
an accordian factory and a mime school. Good luck, gentlemen. - Admiral Benson

JG53Frankyboy
08-13-2004, 11:27 AM
well , the Reisen is a Navy plane, so, it was realy knots as speed indicator. Army planes used so far i remember Km/H !


btw, should the A6M2 have rudder trim ? had not the A6M2 and A6M3 model32 "only" ruder Tabs like the Bf109 (so no adjustable rudder trim from the pilot)? and first with A6M3 model22 rudder trim flaps were introduced ?