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Archangel2980
04-04-2004, 05:32 PM
offline that is.

I've flown all the 109's up to 1943 and that darn spit is driving me insane. I have no problem downing 109's when I fly the spits, but vice versa it's hard. Can someone give me any advice on downing a spit. It can out climb me out turn me out snap roll me lol. Not to mention the AI is basicaly a sniper with wings.

Archangel2980
04-04-2004, 05:32 PM
offline that is.

I've flown all the 109's up to 1943 and that darn spit is driving me insane. I have no problem downing 109's when I fly the spits, but vice versa it's hard. Can someone give me any advice on downing a spit. It can out climb me out turn me out snap roll me lol. Not to mention the AI is basicaly a sniper with wings.

ajafoofoo
04-04-2004, 05:47 PM
It can't outclimb you, turn is not that much better, and AI is very predictable even on ace settings.

Just don't turn on first pass, zoom up and wait for AI to go after you then come back down and start slashing at him.

Really doesn't matter what plane AI is in for most part. They blow their energy right after the first pass almost every time.

The only thing AI excells at is cheating with it's sniper gunnery, and cheating with it's insane ability to slow down like it has airbrake-dragchutes.

Oso2323
04-04-2004, 06:27 PM
Generally speaking it's easier to fly and Turn & Burn aircraft against the AI, because the AI always adopts T&B tactics, no matter what the strengths of their plane.

Personally, I always try to climb whenever I see the enemy and build up energy. But then again, I'm not much of a B&Z player.

PBNA-Boosher
04-04-2004, 06:57 PM
Just like the P-51's, a few hits to the engine will set it aflame.

mike_espo
04-04-2004, 07:37 PM
You gotta get close; <100m, then hit him with a little deflection in the wing root or engine and he will go down. I can do it in a G.50 with two 12.7mm mgs. With the 20mm cannon, it should be easy.

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

Steaky_361st
04-04-2004, 07:48 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mike_espo:
You gotta get close; &lt;100m, then hit him with a little deflection in the wing root or engine and he will go down. I can do it in a G.50 with two 12.7mm mgs. With the 20mm cannon, it should be easy.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I beg to differ lol....Its either the spits are iron-clad or somethings off with the guns. I can put endless 20mm into that thing in the wing root, wing tip you name it, and the thing only shows a few small holes http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif . Not only that, Ive had a spit once take 5 37mm from my P63 in the wing and only show the partial wing damage http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Its probably just a one time thing, but still...


Steaky

BlitzPig_DDT
04-04-2004, 07:54 PM
Just got done some 1v1 vs Ace AI in the QMB. Took the G-6 early and late against the '42 and '43 Spits.

The 20mm is hard for me to be effective with, and I was frequently getting beat by the '42 in the G-6 early until I took the Mk108.

The '42 is an LF. It doesn't do too well up around 3Km. If you let your speed build to over 300 then pull gradually to a 270kph climn and hold it, then angle yourself to him, and pull it into a spiral climb as he gets near and tries to zoom, you will stall him out, not be hit, and then can roll and dive on him. At that point, you will get the first shot. If you're good, or have the 108, it should be over there.

The '43 CW is not an LF, so it's not as bad up high, instead, you want to use climb rate against him rather than a combination of that and alt performance. So, running full bore (as always in the beginning of a QMB match), dive very gently to an angle to him, you will have a lot of speed built up and he doesn't seem to know what to do. He will eventually try to dive on you, you can pull into a zoom climb at just enough of an angle that you evade his guns. He can't (and won't even try) to turn around fast enough to follow you and you can loop it over and dive on him (as he's usually trying to level out of the dive and get some speed and alt again).

With the G-6(late) I was able to beat the '43 CW with the 20mm. But it was a case of plinking him to the point that he crashed trying to dodge a slash I was making. Good thing too as I was low on ammo by that point. lol

Give those a try though, see if they help.

Also, the AI doesn't like being shot at. If you go for a head on, make sure you have either wide spread fire (lots of guns along the wings), or are a damned good shot. Fire before him and he will not fire back and won't try to turn right back on you. It changes the whole fight.

==================================
The Blitz Pigs - Not a squad, a Movement!

Come and spam on our front porch.

http://www.blitzpigs.com

Archangel2980
04-04-2004, 08:24 PM
Thanks guys.

clint-ruin
04-04-2004, 08:36 PM
1 x MG151/20 APIT round is enough to kill the Spits engine from most angles.

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/easydone.zip

http://users.bigpond.net.au/gwen/fb/easydone.jpg

Make the tracer round impact on the engine cowl and they're done.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

VW-IceFire
04-04-2004, 08:45 PM
All DM models are probably a little overdone and absorb way too much fire but aimed in the right places (the wing root or the engine compartment) she'll light on fire or break apart. Control surfaces are also very vulnerable...

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/tmv-sig1.jpg
RCAF 412 Falcon Squadron - "Swift to Avenge"

WUAF_Badsight
04-04-2004, 10:51 PM
1) the Bf109 20mm nose cannon is back to spitting marshmellows like it was in FB v1.11

2) the Spits have awesome 20mm cannon

3) the Bf109's are fragile to wings hits & especially the motor being hit

4) the Spitfire has amazingly durable airframe , it can take a hell of a lot of punishment & still fly well enough to fight

exact opposite of the Bf109 & the Hayate

5) they retain speed better than the Bf109's so you have to ALWAYS be a lot faster or they can catch you in loops & turns eaisly

Oso2323
04-05-2004, 12:11 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
5) they retain speed better than the Bf109's so you have to _ALWAYS_ be a lot faster or they can catch you in loops & turns eaisly<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but I find that the AI G-2 turns with the Spit at lower speeds (ie. &lt;350kph). Or maybe I'm just having a bad night.

Tully__
04-05-2004, 06:57 AM
I just flew a QMB against a spit in a G2 and found that a very short burst in the engine was enough. Surprised the daylights out of me, I'd forgotten I had arcade mode on and got this huge speech balloon "Engine of fire, I'm RTB" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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DeerHunterUK
04-05-2004, 07:13 AM
Last week my Squadron had it's dogfight server up. I ended up in a fight in my A6m2 against 3 Spitfire Vb's, I managed to down 2 of them before the 3rd got me.

No1_Moggy
-----
In memory of 'The Few'
http://www.lima1.co.uk/Sharkey/spitfire.jpg
The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmerepilots-raf.co.uk/
Know your enemy and know yourself; in a hundred battles, you will never be defeated.

glottis77
04-05-2004, 07:32 AM
good to know about the engine, because yesterday online a spit survived 3 bursts of my fw190a9 which surprised me incredibly much, since 2 bursts are enough to bring down an il2 in most cases.
i generally think that planes which are getting implemented late (e.g. in aep or by patches) are better than the ones which are originally in the game. maybe i'm wrong, but i'd never take a 1943 bf109 over a spit.

darkhorizon11
04-05-2004, 09:27 AM
Haha now you know how the Germans must've felt!

Stalker58
04-05-2004, 10:32 AM
You can't kill a Spit? Neither me.Maybe because I still don't have AEP? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Altitude, speed, manoeuvre and.... CRASH!

Xnomad
04-05-2004, 11:05 AM
I assume when you said it could outclimb you you meant that it can pitch up quicker due to better elevator response? As there is no way a Spit will outclimb the late 109's

http://www.xnomad.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/sig.jpg

mman1066
04-05-2004, 11:36 AM
I can get them off line but on line? Haven't gotten one yet. With my machine and frame rates it is impossible to get any real accuracy with the way most human pilots throw that thing around. I can get them to smoke but I always run out of ammo. They then just fly away leaving me cursing. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

BlitzPig_MM

mortoma
04-05-2004, 11:59 AM
I'm not trying to be cocky but after reading every post in here, all I could do is go, hmmmmmmmmm.
I then stopped going hmmmmmmmmm and decided to settle this matter once and for all in QMB. First of all the original poster complained that the Spit DM was basically too tough for him, epsecially when he used the German 20mm cannon against said Spitfires. Then I saw posts about how the German 20mm is supposedly too weak. So just to make myself laugh even harder, I decided to try the 109F2 against a Spit, which only has the 15mm. There have been plenty of whines about how ineffective the 15mm supposedly is too. I find the 15mm extremely effective at close range and I can shred anything literally to pieces with the Jerry 20mm. People get too used to M108s and then think anything lesser is weak, maybe they should not become reliant on the huge cannons so much??? Of course anything seems weak if you get used to giant cannons for months at a time. I went up against the Spit 1vs1 set one ace, and after loosing the first few to initial head on sniper passes. I started to totally blow away the ace Spits with the 15mm ( plus Mgs fired simultaneously ) and had no trouble at all. Every time the Spit ended up in a blazing hole in the ground after I got used to the 109F2.
Also no special tactics were needed to get on his AI six, none of this fancy smancy extension with spiral climb or Bnz. Just pure TnB!!!
I was able to either get the engines smoking or the engines on fire every time. I think the problem is there are people who need to practice gunnery, not that any given gun is too weak.
Maybe they need practice at basic manuevers also. Practice until you get to be a better shot, that's all you need. By the way, I have a .zip file with 12 QMB sessions showing me blowing away Spits ( usually the '42 L.F. model ) using the so-called underarmed 109F2. I can email them to anybody............

[This message was edited by mortoma on Mon April 05 2004 at 11:17 AM.]

tttiger
04-05-2004, 12:46 PM
Oh my!

If they can't kill a SpitV with a G2, the best dogfighter they've got and almost two years more modern than the Spit, imagine the teeth gnashing when the SpitIX arives.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

SKG10_Oiink
04-05-2004, 12:47 PM
short terms

simple luftwaffe mathmatic

Potentional energy (alt) + kinetic energy(dive speed) = dead spit

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

mortoma
04-05-2004, 12:57 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by tttiger:
Oh my!

If they can't kill a SpitV with a G2, the best dogfighter they've got and almost two years more modern than the Spit, imagine the teeth gnashing when the SpitIX arives.[QUOTE]

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Give me an E4 Emil and I will blow your sorry a$$ Spit IX to smithereens...........Try and stay away from me in the PZ.11C too by the way. If you know what's good for you.