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NotFourthBro
04-05-2017, 08:39 AM
There has to be something about this that I don't know. Something that makes it easy. Because in ALL of my games for the past 2 days, my opponents have a 100% cancel rate on mine.

Even the ones that I can tell don't really know what they're doing in the game, and/or are kinda new. Still 100% cancel rate against the most untelegraphed of grabs.

So what is it?

kweassa1917
04-05-2017, 09:14 AM
There has to be something about this that I don't know. Something that makes it easy. Because in ALL of my games for the past 2 days, my opponents have a 100% cancel rate on mine.

Even the ones that I can tell don't really know what they're doing in the game, and/or are kinda new. Still 100% cancel rate against the most untelegraphed of grabs.

So what is it?

Anticipation and reflexes. There's nothing special to it.


Seriously, when you have two players who are at least over mediocre level, none of the two will be able to land any GBs face-to-face, because its not too hard to react to. Even in 1v2 or 1v3s, I can break from GB attempts from enemies I'm not locked on to, so long as I see them on my screen. It's a matter of anticipation. What are they gonna do when they surround me? Easy guess. The ones on my side are gonna try to GB me, since they don't want me to block attacks and get revenge mode. The only GBs I can't break away from are those I totally did not expect, ones that come from off-screen so couldn't see to react, or unbreakable, forced GBs coming out of parries.

And just to be sure, I'm a mediocre player with not very impressive reflexes. Like, even medium-level guys can break away GB easily.

The guys who are above mediocre and really good are often fast enough to react to even unexpected GBs or those coming from off-screen. They see that visual queue/effect and bam, they just react.

NotFourthBro
04-05-2017, 09:22 AM
It doesn't work that way for me. If the animation is happening, it's too late. It doesn't matter if I immediately react to it. It's just too late.

In fact, all day today, I would go for a grab, and instead, I'd GET grabbed. If we're both hitting it, shouldn't it be a cancel? Why am I BEING grabbed in the same instant that I'm trying to grab them? This should never, ever happen. But yet, here I am, having this exact problem.

I've concluded that fighting games are not supposed to be played online. My computer was mid-range specs when I made it ~6 years ago, and I generally have ~110 ping to other such things. Why would I ever assume that what I'm seeing on my screen is even close to what's happening live? I'm trying to play a reactive fighting game while perpetually stuck living in the past.

I'm so over this.

Herbstlicht
04-05-2017, 09:54 AM
It doesn't work that way for me. If the animation is happening, it's too late. It doesn't matter if I immediately react to it. It's just too late.

In fact, all day today, I would go for a grab, and instead, I'd GET grabbed. If we're both hitting it, shouldn't it be a cancel? Why am I BEING grabbed in the same instant that I'm trying to grab them? This should never, ever happen. But yet, here I am, having this exact problem.

I've concluded that fighting games are not supposed to be played online. My computer was mid-range specs when I made it ~6 years ago, and I generally have ~110 ping to other such things. Why would I ever assume that what I'm seeing on my screen is even close to what's happening live? I'm trying to play a reactive fighting game while perpetually stuck living in the past.

I'm so over this.

Ok, so if you start grab at the same time your opponent does, both get canceled. You start slightly after your opponent does: yours doesnt connect, your opponents does, you can't cancel - sucks, but it is the same for both parties, so it is fair.

Do you play on console? If so, try remapping the buttons. The dedicated controller button to cancel is bad to reach. You need godlike reflexes to work with it, specially if you play on an older tv set with higher display lag.

But, i do play on console too, and if i am not too sleepy, i feel pretty good when it comes to cgb'ing. So it is a lot about practice and muscle memory. Just keep at it, you will manage at some point, i am sure :)

NotFourthBro
04-05-2017, 10:53 AM
Ok, so if you start grab at the same time your opponent does, both get canceled. You start slightly after your opponent does: yours doesnt connect, your opponents does, you can't cancel - sucks, but it is the same for both parties, so it is fair.

Do you play on console? If so, try remapping the buttons. The dedicated controller button to cancel is bad to reach. You need godlike reflexes to work with it, specially if you play on an older tv set with higher display lag.

But, i do play on console too, and if i am not too sleepy, i feel pretty good when it comes to cgb'ing. So it is a lot about practice and muscle memory. Just keep at it, you will manage at some point, i am sure :)

No.

When we both do it, I get grabbed, not canceled. I play on PC.

The more I play this game, the more I feel like what I'm seeing is about a second behind reality. And in a fighting game, being even 0.1 seconds off is game-changing.

And often when I go for a dodge parry, even when I do it in the right direction, I just end up actually dodging, and the attack just slides right off of me rather than parrying it. Which is a huge waste, especially when their attack was quick enough to now be able to parry my retaliation.

Draghmar
04-05-2017, 11:17 AM
I had many problems with CGB. I still have but lately I've manage to make more and successful CGBs. The problem is that you have really small window to make it. If you see red icon on opponent then it's already too late. Unfortunately what NotFourthBro said is true - you have to pay attention and foresee what will come next. There are classes that like to GB in some specific situations. And most people will try to GB when gets closer.
There's a one additional thing though. I think there are times when latency or lag can change something that looked like correct CGB into being GB. But that's something I can not prove...

FledgeSRondo
04-05-2017, 01:25 PM
Could be a slight latency, I've felt it too. Sometimes I'll be fighting Expert Player A who's playing a specific hero and I can guard break and parry easily, and then I'll run into Casual Player B playing the same hero and it seems like I have to input everything half a second earlier for anything to connect properly. You'll even see weird animation jumps, like I'll see the opponent guarding high and I'll throw a high light attack, and then there's a weird visual skip and they've been magically hit somehow and are no longer blocking high. It's frustrating not only because the other player can have a distinct advantage connecting attacks that I'm already anticipating and reacting to properly, but because I know the timing and suddenly have to adjust to this one person with even stricter reaction times, which are still doable but nevertheless that much more difficult to humanly pull off. Or vice versa, in some instances I can't help but think I must be having some kind of lag advantage over the other player. I can't say how many times I've encountered that one slightly laggy player online who telegraphed a slow attack, I anticipated it and input parry at the proper time but then got hit anyways, then had to adjust for the rest of the match to parry slightly earlier and it worked. Sometimes I just have to forgo parrying altogether because the lag window is too narrow even for me, and instead keep my distance and wait for more forgiving openings instead, though it's pretty painful when I can't get my Guard Break Interrupts going. I would say this kind of nuanced lag is the worst because it's elusive, punishing and frustrating, worse than those occasions when you see your opponent is moving at a smooth clip while you watch your own character moving painfully slow.

But hey, that's where online fighting games are right now, these kinds of occasional frustrations come with the territory. Compared to other fighting games I've played, I'm grateful these kinds of lag issues in For Honor aren't as pernicious, and that there's enough non-hairtrigger gameplay variety besides to round out those instances where it's pretty obviously bad (whether it's objective grabbing, power-ups gathering, minion slaying, etc.).

kweassa1917
04-05-2017, 01:49 PM
No.

When we both do it, I get grabbed, not canceled. I play on PC.

The more I play this game, the more I feel like what I'm seeing is about a second behind reality. And in a fighting game, being even 0.1 seconds off is game-changing.

And often when I go for a dodge parry, even when I do it in the right direction, I just end up actually dodging, and the attack just slides right off of me rather than parrying it. Which is a huge waste, especially when their attack was quick enough to now be able to parry my retaliation.

When two players GB at the same time, they bump into each other and both recoil backwards. Hence, you're not "both doing it", you're doing it slower.

The difficult thing with complaints like yours is that often, people have a selective memory -- they tend to remember the way they WANTED to do it, rather than the way they ACTUALLY did it. It's why making recordings of your bout helps. When you have a "3rd person's view" on what you were doing you come to realize that there were a lot of mistakes made you didn't know at the time.

I don't mean any disrespect and that's why I'm careful to say it here, but the problem, in my opinion, in all likelihood, is your reaction is simply too slow because you're not used to the game as you might like to think. If you have a friend, try duels and ask him to help you out with certain moves -- it helps a lot.

There's not an ounce of bullsheez to what I've said -- "tech"ing away from GBs is simply reflex and anticipation, and both can be acquired through patience and experience.