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View Full Version : A tactics question for you FR guys



WooHooToYou
03-18-2004, 04:11 AM
I've been doing a lot of FR lately and I have a question about the tactics used by some people.

When I am on the 6 of some guys they chop the throttle and then make a tight turn either to the left or right and then reapply the throttle.

They then do this a number of times in succession in an effort to get me off their 6.

Is this what a real WW2 fighter pilot did?

It seems to me that they are trying to use the limited situational awareness (compared to real life) in the game to throw you off their tail.

I thought in real life 'speed is life'; a real WW2 pilot would not throw away their speed in such a manner.

What do you guys think?

WooHooToYou
03-18-2004, 04:11 AM
I've been doing a lot of FR lately and I have a question about the tactics used by some people.

When I am on the 6 of some guys they chop the throttle and then make a tight turn either to the left or right and then reapply the throttle.

They then do this a number of times in succession in an effort to get me off their 6.

Is this what a real WW2 fighter pilot did?

It seems to me that they are trying to use the limited situational awareness (compared to real life) in the game to throw you off their tail.

I thought in real life 'speed is life'; a real WW2 pilot would not throw away their speed in such a manner.

What do you guys think?

Erbriac
03-18-2004, 04:19 AM
People do what they think will deny you the firing solution. You can't compare with RL where you got only 1 life. Did you ever stayed behind a Ki or Fw? Those jocks would be dead in RL just from the maneuvering or at best very very dizzy.

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312_Wraith
312. (Czechoslovak) Fighter Sq. RAF
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WWSensei
03-18-2004, 04:35 AM
"When I am on the 6 of some guys they chop the throttle and then make a tight turn either to the left or right and then reapply the throttle.

They then do this a number of times in succession in an effort to get me off their 6.

Is this what a real WW2 fighter pilot did?

It seems to me that they are trying to use the limited situational awareness (compared to real life) in the game to throw you off their tail.

I thought in real life 'speed is life'; a real WW2 pilot would not throw away their speed in such a manner.

What do you guys think?"
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If your aircraft was faster than his then maintaining speed would have only resulted in his dying. Going out on a limb here since I wasn't there but he could have been doing one of several things...

1) Force an overshoot. If you were closing fast a break turn would force you either to go up in starting a yo-yo or had you tried to follow you would have possibly slipped outside his turn circle and allowed him to come around for a solution.

2) Setup a flat or rolling scissors...

3) Just plain screwed up...

4) Playing bait for a wingmen to set you up in a lead and bracket...

Given the fact you said they chopped throttle to turn it is most likely they were trying to force the overshoot. You already had the jump on them and were behind their 3-9 line. The odds were in your favor so there are a limited number of options.

The "trying to use the limited situational awareness (compared to real life) in the game to throw you off their tail." is a jump in logic I wouldn't make right away. It would be about 10th on my list...

ptthome
03-18-2004, 05:15 AM
I think it was Hartman that said if there was anyone in shooting distance on his 6 - he would bang the stick forwards, do a split S then dive away at full speed.

All of which to me seems more concentrated on getting out of the line of sight/cockpit view of the enemy.

Of course it wont help you against bozos using padlock

http://perso.club-internet.fr/ptthome/vulogo3.JPG

ZG77_Lignite
03-18-2004, 08:47 AM
Certainly a valid tactic in real life was 'getting out of the enemies situational awareness'. In fact there is an excellent story about Walter Nowotny that describes nearly the exact same situation you described (an Osprey book I belive, haven't seen it on the internet). He attacked multiple Soviet Aircraft while his wingmen performed another attack (against bombers? memory foggy). While Nowotny was shooting down the ? (Yaks I believe) he was jumped by a flight of P39's (American aircraft he called them). He was unable to escape, so his 'last ditch' effort was multiple throttle chops to force an overshoot. He was successful on the 3rd attempt (again, memory foggy), and was able to shoot down the P39 as it passed him. He did recieve damage from enemy fire in this scenario.

LilHorse
03-18-2004, 09:01 AM
If you're that close up on his six then the whole "speed is life" dictum is something he has already neglected or you caught him unawares. Either way he's at a point where more desperate manouvers are necessary. As pointed out he may be trying to force an overshoot or initiate a scissors fight.

But the reason for chopping the throttle is because it allows you to manouver/ turn harder, although you then bleed off alot more E. Under power your engine and prop want to pull you more or less in a straight line. Chopping power allows your control surfaces to work without having to fight the engine and prop and allows more radical manouvering.

There's a great video of a training film for the P-47 where they emphatically stress that when doing a split-S that it should be done with "power off" because it allows you to pull through underneath more quickly than if the plane was under power. Otherwise you risk your engine wanting to pull you more straight down. And if your a little sparse on altitude that could be a problem.

BaldieJr
03-18-2004, 10:09 AM
Its a valid evasion technique that was indeed used.

http://www.fighterjerks.com/churchsign.jpg

heywooood
03-18-2004, 11:06 AM
couple of stall turns gets em low and slow in a hurry.. keep your energy and come around over the top and baboom. smoke and flames.

WarGod5475
03-18-2004, 12:11 PM
thier were all kind of variances but by far the most common evaisoin tactic was to split s and head for the deck as fast as you can and get away from the situation becuase thier is no gurante that you will be able to turn the tables in real life you just want to live.

this was done on the eastern and western front by the germans and americans that i know off. I havnt done much research on other fronts or airforces.

i use this almost exclusively and i have only been shot down one time in fr in this situation but i was in a 110 so i was a big target... but hey i bailed to fight another day.

BpGemini
03-18-2004, 12:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ptthome:
I think it was Hartman that said if there was anyone in shooting distance on his 6 - he would bang the stick forwards, do a split S then dive away at full speed.

All of which to me seems more concentrated on getting out of the line of sight/cockpit view of the enemy.

Of course it wont help you against bozos using padlock <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


He said FR IIRC which to me means no PL. Personally I don't think Internal PL is a bad thing. If you get out of the virtual pilots sight the Internal PL unlocks. External PL is lame.

http://www.blitzpigs.com/images/P-39_BlitzPig_Sig_01.jpg
IL-2 original P-39 vet soon to be P-63 vet.

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