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View Full Version : PK doesn't need nerf, there's a better solution



Burn-The-Sinner
04-02-2017, 01:24 PM
Erase it from game. POS broken character can't be fixed. Simply delete it.

Gray360UK
04-02-2017, 01:27 PM
Someone just got owned by a PK? ;)

CandleInTheDark
04-02-2017, 01:29 PM
Someone just got owned by a PK? ;)

I hope she didn't say ni at him, that's borderline inhumane.

Gray360UK
04-02-2017, 01:37 PM
I hope she didn't say ni at him, that's borderline inhumane.

I can see the nerf NI! threads already ...

CandleInTheDark
04-02-2017, 01:39 PM
I can see the nerf NI! threads already ...

Ni is clearly overpowered,needs nerf. My fighter fell on his backside cowering, this needs to be fixed.

Burn-The-Sinner
04-02-2017, 01:53 PM
Tournaments already ban this character from playing. That is a huge slap in the face.

I played pk yesterday just to see what is like and suffice to say: everyone bled to death. Didn't even bother with zone attack all that much, just parry into bleed with occasional light spam.

It's just broken and shame on Ubisoft for not trying their own stuff before they release it to the public.

It's very simple: just have two employees play against each others for couple of days, one pk, the other variable. Other online games have alternative beta servers that are used to test balance changes by having actual players participate - hand picked, limited amount.

Ubisoft will win much more money by diverting employee time into testing this stuff than to just throw it out In the public and lose massive amount of player base (aka customers). Can't believe how simple this stuff is. It's braindead fundamental.

CandleInTheDark
04-02-2017, 02:00 PM
Light spam is a problem and it is one that a bunch of peacekeeper mains on here want dealing with because people get salty for us existing pretty much. As for the bleed, yeah that is my game, at the same time I need to initiate guardbreak without getting hit so usually a parry to make that safe, deflect an attack which comes with some risk, try deep gouge which means landing a heavy usually after a feint or from a dodge and again requires very specific timing to pull off or the soft cancel from the heavy attack which if I miss it will be punished. For me, I am having to work hard enough and take enough risks that I don't feel I am gaming the system by that. I can see where some get frustrated, but honestly see that as a more skilled way of playing than light spam and there are things like the oni rush or the headbutt that feel like they do as much with less effort or risk (though full disclaimer, I have never played the shugoki or warlord).

Honestly I try to use the full kit, the biggest problem for me is that at least in low level play (working up to high level but can't say anything about that yet outside of that people have used her in tournaments to make a point) it is by far less effective than spam which turns into a newbie killer and an annoyance when people are equally skilled.

Gray360UK
04-02-2017, 02:02 PM
I played pk yesterday just to see what is like and suffice to say: everyone bled to death. Didn't even bother with zone attack all that much, just parry into bleed with occasional light spam..

Everyone huh? On your level 1 PK? Wow ... :rolleyes:

Suuuuuure that's why you want them removed from the game ;)

Gray360UK
04-02-2017, 02:03 PM
Light spam is a problem and it is one that a bunch of peacekeeper mains on here want dealing with because people get salty for us existing pretty much. As for the bleed, yeah that is my game, at the same time I need to initiate guardbreak without getting hit so usually a parry to make that safe, deflect an attack which comes with some risk, try deep gouge which means landing a heavy usually after a feint or from a dodge and again requires very specific timing to pull off or the soft cancel from the heavy attack which if I miss it will be punished. For me, I am having to work hard enough and take enough risks that I don't feel I am gaming the system by that. I can see where some get frustrated, but honestly see that as a more skilled way of playing than light spam and there are things like the oni rush or the headbutt that feel like they do as much with less effort or risk (though full disclaimer, I have never played the shugoki or warlord).

Wow, you took him seriously? Really? ;)

Burn-The-Sinner
04-02-2017, 02:07 PM
Everyone huh? On your level 1 PK? Wow ... :rolleyes:

Suuuuuure that's why you want them removed from the game ;)

there are 0rep level 8 pk that reached finals in tournaments against rep 10 that do tournaments on regular basis.

CandleInTheDark
04-02-2017, 02:25 PM
Wow, you took him seriously? Really? ;)

I try new things, sometimes they don't work.

CoyoteXStarrk
04-02-2017, 02:27 PM
I try new things, sometimes they don't work.

I feel like that entire phrase sums up America this year :(

CandleInTheDark
04-02-2017, 02:29 PM
I feel like that entire phrase sums up America this year :(

Yeah it's no easier in Britain right now, what we are doing is not necessarily wrong but we are doing it for the wrong reasons. But that is politics.

In terms of my post, hopefully someone who comes in with an open mind might at least get the other side.

Alustar.
04-02-2017, 02:33 PM
there are 0rep level 8 pk that reached finals in tournaments against rep 10 that do tournaments on regular basis.

What tournaments? You act like this games been out for years, it's been out less than three months!
Also basing an opinion off of 1v1 tourney is a bad idea, especially since seeing your complaint you are obviously not one who is going to take part.
Lol noob

Gray360UK
04-02-2017, 02:35 PM
What tournaments? You act like this games been out for years, it's been out less than three months!

6 weeks I believe :)

But of course if he killed 'everyone' with his PK yesterday, there must be a problem, right? ;)

I killed 'everyone' with my Kensei the other day. Delete those too.

Burn-The-Sinner
04-02-2017, 02:54 PM
What tournaments? You act like this games been out for years, it's been out less than three months!
Also basing an opinion off of 1v1 tourney is a bad idea, especially since seeing your complaint you are obviously not one who is going to take part.
Lol noob

Like this one for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71TgrpfeEJ4

You people are obviously main PKs. No need to be salty about it. It's just facts about a broken piece of **** class that relies on 2 gimmicks and nothing else.

Burn-The-Sinner
04-02-2017, 02:55 PM
6 weeks I believe :)

But of course if he killed 'everyone' with his PK yesterday, there must be a problem, right? ;)

I killed 'everyone' with my Kensei the other day. Delete those too.

Yeah, it's a problem. Your brain may be slow, but we're getting there.

Gray360UK
04-02-2017, 03:22 PM
Like this one for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71TgrpfeEJ4

You people are obviously main PKs. No need to be salty about it. It's just facts about a broken piece of **** class that relies on 2 gimmicks and nothing else.

You know that video doesn't show what you think it shows? 2 Gimmicks? :rolleyes:

Like at 1:10, for example, the PK blocks the overhead, Guard Breaks, Double stabs, back kicks out of it, forwards lunges with a Heavy and then Deep Gouges , blocks again, and again, Guard Breaks again, Triple stabs this time and uses ONE light attack to finish.

That is 11 seperate attacks, all different, all requiring different skills / button presses / timing ... but all PKs win with 2 gimmicks, right?

I guess it doesn't matter that he loses 2 rounds of Duel either and a Nobushi takes him to Round 5, right?

Your ignorance and blind hatred is showing ;)

That is actuall really good Duel footage, not all the Light Attack spam montage I thought it was going to be. Both were skilled, all the rounds were close. The Nobushi was obviously less skilled though and deserved to lose. The second duel was sad because the PK won two of the rounds using environmental kills, but otherwise that's a really good video.

Come back when you have played a PK / watched a YouTube video with your eyes open, you have nothing to say.

corazondedelfin
04-02-2017, 03:25 PM
Gray, your PK will soon be ruined, you can be sure of that. Probably me and my Orochi wont be no longer in the game though cause as you know, I dont like it, but I will stay till they give me my platinum, sell it and move on.

Just wanted to let you know, as its related to this. Dont think that you will end being a lightspammer PK, because your character is not going anywhere in some time. Start finding a new one if you want to keep playing this broken videogame ;)

Gray360UK
04-02-2017, 03:39 PM
Gray, your PK will soon be ruined, you can be sure of that. Probably me and my Orochi wont be no longer in the game though cause as you know, I dont like it, but I will stay till they give me my platinum, sell it and move on.

Just wanted to let you know, as its related to this. Dont think that you will end being a lightspammer PK, because your character is not going anywhere in some time. Start finding a new one if you want to keep playing this broken videogame ;)

I have plenty of characters, don't go getting all worried about me and my happiness now, people will start to think we are friends ;)

Burn-The-Sinner
04-02-2017, 04:07 PM
You know that video doesn't show what you think it shows? 2 Gimmicks? :rolleyes:

Like at 1:10, for example, the PK blocks the overhead, Guard Breaks, Double stabs, back kicks out of it, forwards lunges with a Heavy and then Deep Gouges , blocks again, and again, Guard Breaks again, Triple stabs this time and uses ONE light attack to finish.

That is 11 seperate attacks, all different, all requiring different skills / button presses / timing ... but all PKs win with 2 gimmicks, right?

I guess it doesn't matter that he loses 2 rounds of Duel either and a Nobushi takes him to Round 5, right?

Your ignorance and blind hatred is showing ;)

That is actuall really good Duel footage, not all the Light Attack spam montage I thought it was going to be. Both were skilled, all the rounds were close. The Nobushi was obviously less skilled though and deserved to lose. The second duel was sad because the PK won two of the rounds using environmental kills, but otherwise that's a really good video.

Come back when you have played a PK / watched a YouTube video with your eyes open, you have nothing to say.

haha, no matter how you twist and turn this, it's a lvl 2 player that have never touched a PK before in a tournament. Is your head really that far in your ***?

Gray360UK
04-02-2017, 04:23 PM
haha, no matter how you twist and turn this, it's a lvl 2 player that have never touched a PK before in a tournament. Is your head really that far in your ***?

I knew you'd have to come back and flog the dead horse with a 'witty' response (being kind).

Honestly, you've embarassed yourself enough. If I wanted to show people how many skills / moves a good Peacekeeper uses in a single duel round, I would use your video.

That you think it shows 2 gimmicks is hilarious and just illustrates how little you know. and how quick you are to form an opinion / make a judgement / jump on a bandwagon with no substantiating evidence / experience of your own / thought.

I list 11 seperate attacks in a video you claim shows 2 gimmicks and you say that's me twisting it? Really?

Don't be a sheep. The guy is clearly looking to appeal to people like you, who just blindly follow and don't think. "Not gonna be hard" he says at the start of the duel, then loses 2 rounds and has to take it to Round 5. Wins the second Duel with Environmental kills. Stop being a sheep, watch the moves, see how much time he has spent practicing, read between the lines and spot the agenda, and use your own intelligence (assuming you have any) to decide for yourself what's happening.

But by all means, continue ...

https://i.imgsafe.org/117b5338a2.jpg

Burn-The-Sinner
04-02-2017, 04:50 PM
Why don't you go apologize to the Pope and the organizer of that other tournament that banned PK from playing. Tell them how complicated and deep PK are and that you'd need months of constant play to master their numerous moves if you want to stand a chance in a tournament. Surely you can't just roll out a lvl 2 PK and slaughter everyone... Laughable. Banned.

JediGamerFurius
04-02-2017, 05:15 PM
The problem is that everybody is complaning about PK. I must admit, I've never played with her before but must be something wrong yeah, cus everybody is complaning about it. So, remember that, and it goes for every player who thinks that he discovered some OP atack or whatever wich will get to the top. It will not stand forever, IT WILLL GET NERFED acept that it hurt less...

Gray360UK
04-02-2017, 05:29 PM
Why don't you go apologize to the Pope and the organizer of that other tournament that banned PK from playing. Tell them how complicated and deep PK are and that you'd need months of constant play to master their numerous moves if you want to stand a chance in a tournament. Surely you can't just roll out a lvl 2 PK and slaughter everyone... Laughable. Banned.

Why don't you go apologize to your brain for not using it?

PK has some issues, it's just none of them are in that video and it shows how you can't think for yourself and just follow the herd. You hate PK because you are told you should, not because of anything you have seen or done. You Argue that PK has 2 gimmicks and kills 'everyone' and then submit a video in which the player uses 11 attacks and loses 2 rounds. It's an epic facepalm. You've also got that whole hero worship thing going on with tournaments, as if they are superior beings from the planet 1337, rather than gamers exactly the same as you and I. You realise most / all of them probably play For Honor less than I do? But ZOMG this guy in a tournament said .... :rolleyes:

I'm not really sure what about your silly first post made me think I'd get anything intelligent out of you, but I wasn't expecting it to be this bad. ;)

CandleInTheDark
04-02-2017, 05:31 PM
The problem is that everybody is complaning about PK. I must admit, I've never played with her before but must be something wrong yeah, cus everybody is complaning about it. So, remember that, and it goes for every player who thinks that he discovered some OP atack or whatever wich will get to the top. It will not stand forever, IT WILLL GET NERFED acept that it hurt less...

Here's the thing about coming into a community with preconceptions, jumping on the bandwagon and not actually reading around. The two peacekeeper mains in this thread? We've been the ones making noise that the nerfs announced only encourage the type of gameplay that people are complaining about in the first place. There are other threads but you might want to read this one before thinking that everyone is all DON'T NERF MY MAIN THERE IS NOTHING WRONG. http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1619892-Opinion-on-pk-changes

JediGamerFurius
04-02-2017, 05:33 PM
Here's the thing about coming into a community without reading anything with preconceptions, jumping on the bandwagon and not actually reading around. The two peacekeeper mains in this thread? We've been the ones making noise that the nerfs announced only encourage the type of gameplay that people are complaining about in the first place. There are other threads but you might want to read this one before thinking that everyone is all DON'T NERF MY MAIN THERE IS NOTHING WRONG. http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1619892-Opinion-on-pk-changes

OHHH YEAAAAHHHH THERE IT GOES THE MR KNOW IT ALL!! Everybody in the comunity is wrong. Get out of here.

Fenrirwolf24
04-02-2017, 05:35 PM
I think the biggest problem with PK is that heavies have a hard time blocking her. The bleed isnt really that bad considering her gb bleed attack does just a little bit more damage than a heavy. Her light spam is ridiculous. The same could be said about other characters. So some possible fixes would be speed up stance speed on heavies, slow down the PK attack speed, or if PK is blocked it staggers her back but it doesnt give the oppenet a free attack.

Gray360UK
04-02-2017, 05:35 PM
OHHH YEAAAAHHHH THERE IT GOES THE MR KNOW IT ALL!! Everybody in the comunity is wrong. Get out of here.

You didn't even read what he wrote did you? :rolleyes:

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/109/590x/Lamb-in-the-grass-567099.jpg

CandleInTheDark
04-02-2017, 05:35 PM
OHHH YEAAAAHHHH THERE IT GOES THE MR KNOW IT ALL!! Everybody in the comunity is wrong. Get out of here.

Did you actually read what I just wrote or are you just here to abuse pk mains? Because there are plenty that claim it is balanced, we're the ones trying to actually get the right things nerfed.

CandleInTheDark
04-02-2017, 05:37 PM
I think the biggest problem with PK is that heavies have a hard time blocking her. The bleed isnt really that bad considering her gb bleed attack does just a little bit more damage than a heavy. Her light spam is ridiculous. The same could be said about other characters. So some possible fixes would be speed up stance speed on heavies, slow down the PK attack speed, or if PK is blocked it staggers her back but it doesnt give the oppenet a free attack.

Again, preaching to the choir.

The devs don't want to touch speed, they said that on warrior's den, the ironic thing is people are treating Gray and myself in this thread as if we are blindly defending our main, do me afavour and read the thread I linked, we're the ones making noise that it needs to be light spam that is nerfed.

That thread again since it is on a different page http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1619892-Opinion-on-pk-changes

JediGamerFurius
04-02-2017, 05:42 PM
Did you actually read what I just wrote or are you just here to abuse pk mains? Because there are plenty that claim it is balanced, we're the ones trying to actually get the right things nerfed.

There is a pool or something that shows that the major is complaning about it? Show me the pool, the people demands that PK is ok. Let me tell you something, I got some chars in the others games who was OP and I like to play with them, and belive me I will love to play PK but guess what, I don't take it, I learn my lesson, they get nerfed in the end, so I spare myself of this.

Fenrirwolf24
04-02-2017, 05:43 PM
Again, preaching to the choir.

The devs don't want to touch speed, they said that on warrior's den, the ironic thing is people are treating Gray and myself in this thread as if we are blindly defending our main, do me afavour and read the thread I linked, we're the ones making noise that it needs to be light spam that is nerfed.

Right. I main Valk and i dont have much trouble with PK becuase light spam vs light spam lol. But if i play raider i get wrecked by all assains which i did hear they are gonna buff raider hopefully. I think in general all the spams need to be looked at like PK, Zerkers, Nobushi, and Conquerer.

CandleInTheDark
04-02-2017, 05:49 PM
Right. I main Valk and i dont have much trouble with PK becuase light spam vs light spam lol. But if i play raider i get wrecked by all assains which i did hear they are gonna buff raider hopefully. I think in general all the spams need to be looked at like PK, Zerkers, Nobushi, and Conquerer.

Aye, Warden (speaking as someone who plays them) and Valk(got a few levels in that too) as well. I know there are some people that will just yell git gud, some of us are actually trying to be part of the solution. And not a dig at you, you've been reasonable, but a comment in general, people on all sides need to actually be willing to work with that if things will get better.

Fenrirwolf24
04-02-2017, 06:00 PM
Aye, Warden (speaking as someone who plays them) and Valk(got a few levels in that too) as well. I know there are some people that will just yell git gud, some of us are actually trying to be part of the solution. And not a dig at you, you've been reasonable, but a comment in general, people on all sides need to actually be willing to work with that if things will get better.

I dont have much of a problem with wardens. Honestly warden vs raider is my favorite match up. And the Valk spam is there cant deny that but atleast in my experince its really not that bad. I dont only play Valk i have all vikings to rep 1 with Zerker being rep 2

CandleInTheDark
04-02-2017, 06:06 PM
I dont have much of a problem with wardens. Honestly warden vs raider is my favorite match up. And the Valk spam is there cant deny that but atleast in my experince its really not that bad. I dont only play Valk i have all vikings to rep 1 with Zerker being rep 2

Aye I'm more casual, I have peacekeeper halfway to rep 2, warden at rep 1, nobushi, valk and berzerker nearly there and about six levels with conqueror. I quite like the warden gameplay without shoulder charge spam, the best mirror match I had we had three duels and we used the shoulder charge about five times between us over those rounds. The other guy's feint game was amazing.

JediGamerFurius
04-02-2017, 06:19 PM
I dont have much of a problem with wardens. Honestly warden vs raider is my favorite match up. And the Valk spam is there cant deny that but atleast in my experince its really not that bad. I dont only play Valk i have all vikings to rep 1 with Zerker being rep 2

Yeah man, you'rre right. I got a warden, conqueror, valk, kensei (all rep 2) and an orochi rep 8. The warden has a slow heavy atack, but he can counter and shoulder bash. I like him despite of all the oods. I will try to learn to play with instead of playing with another char, I really don't care about having advantage in the game, all I want is learn to play the character I want.

Merlin4421
04-02-2017, 06:21 PM
So pk gets a nerf and meanwhile several classes become invincible at 108. Lawbringer is ungodly at all levels right now. But hey whatever.

Fenrirwolf24
04-02-2017, 06:24 PM
So pk gets a nerf and meanwhile several classes become invincible at 108. Lawbringer is ungodly at all levels right now. But hey whatever.

If your having trouble with LB then either you are bad or he is just really good. LB and Raider are by far the hardest characters to play. Stance switching is slow af and their attacks are slow af. So it all comes down to gb, stuns, parries, and finding openings. Meanwhile all PK has to do is spam lights and bleed.

Merlin4421
04-02-2017, 06:27 PM
Most matches I've been in lb ends up with 0 deaths. Since update. LB are hard to play? That's comical.

Fenrirwolf24
04-02-2017, 06:30 PM
Most matches I've been lb end up 0 deaths. Since update. LB are hard to play? That's comical.

Must just be 4v4 cause in duels i destroy all LB. and when i play LB i only do good if its not a fast attacker im fighting.

Burn-The-Sinner
04-02-2017, 07:54 PM
If your having trouble with LB then either you are bad or he is just really good. LB and Raider are by far the hardest characters to play. Stance switching is slow af and their attacks are slow af. So it all comes down to gb, stuns, parries, and finding openings. Meanwhile all PK has to do is spam lights and bleed.

On the stance switching issue - it is consistent across characters unless you're jerking your stance like a *****. Here's a nice video with proof. But even if switching was 0 time, you're still human and simply can't react to it, because it's broken. PLS delete PK.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSWm4YIPd1U

STAR_Detox
04-02-2017, 08:23 PM
Im not a Pk main but shes fine but all they need to do is get rid of the ability to cancel her zone attack thats all they need to do her with her. then why is everyone complaining that her light attack speed is to fast cause a couple other characters can do the same thing they attack to fast and you can barley block it.

Viruletic
04-02-2017, 08:31 PM
Interesting, I have no problems blocking PK on anything but LB. And they're so predictable I straight up murder them on my own PK.

PK class punishes noobs extremely hard, if you haven't figured her out in mid tier play you must be a noob, because I have yet to see another decent PK at almost rep 5 that isn't completely predictable and easy to counter.

At higher levels she's an issue with light attack spam and ZA abuse, with ubusoft even saying they did no Balance among higher level play.

Also did it ever occur to you that, just because they had no gear, that they just didn't unlock the character? I still haven't unlocked all the Vikings but still play Zerker and warlord, probably be rep 1 by now with them if I had. And let's not forget custom matches.

SendRickPics
04-02-2017, 09:10 PM
Everybody in the comunity is wrong. Get out of here.
Well actually, yeah. Not all that uncommon.

The "everybody says 'x' , so it must be true" argument is an appeal to the mob type fallacy, or Argumentum ad Populum.


I'd say a majority of players never touched PK in all their time playing this game, or if they have, only sparingly. They never actually looked over her kit, her move list, and saw that she's actually VERY limited in her abilities.

Felis_Menari
04-02-2017, 09:16 PM
Well actually, yeah. Not all that uncommon.

The "everybody says 'x' , so it must be true" argument is an appeal to the mob type fallacy, or Argumentum ad Populum.


I'd say a majority of players never touched PK in all their time playing this game, or if they have, only sparingly. They never actually looked over her kit, her move list, and saw that she's actually VERY limited in her abilities.

Limited, yes, but extremely effective, at least on consoles.

SendRickPics
04-02-2017, 09:21 PM
Limited, yes, but extremely effective, at least on consoles.

That's an issue with console limitations and Ubisoft's programming. The Xbox One and the PS4 can certainly render games at 60+FPS, but Ubisoft chose to clock the game in at 30 FPS.

CandleInTheDark
04-02-2017, 09:24 PM
Well actually, yeah. Not all that uncommon.

The "everybody says 'x' , so it must be true" argument is an appeal to the mob type fallacy, or Argumentum ad Populum.


I'd say a majority of players never touched PK in all their time playing this game, or if they have, only sparingly. They never actually looked over her kit, her move list, and saw that she's actually VERY limited in her abilities.

Ironic thing is I wasn't even saying everyone in the community was wrong but there we go.

I quite like the kit the peacekeeper has with her bleeds, they are good both for opening up turtles and punishing mindless aggression. In terms of her combo chains, that is the thing, her heaviesare not as easy to mix in as say the warden's (not that I am saying it should be made easier before I get salt for that), heavies are generally for feinting, they can be feinted into anything unless they are dodge heavies, so you have hard and soft feint options to keep people guessing, if I do get a chance for the heavy because they whiffed through throwing beyond their range, that is where the heavy gets let go and followed with deep gouge or after a dodge attack. Something that I only learned from watching the hero school vid on her, right at the start of a wind up to a heavy she can dodge out of it, not as useful as the berserker's, but still has its uses.

For me the main problem is that light chain, if they don't want to mess with the speed, something else needs to give as she has speed and damage and damage over time and the ability to close distance or escape at will, I absolutely would not mind her lights having the same as the nobushi before her way of the shark passive kicks in so you don't see near half a bar go in one chain (I am assuming without knowing the numbers that that is less, correct me if anyone knows better, point is less damage). Possibly to a slightly lesser extent (at least it doesn't get as much rage) her dodge, I sometimes feel a bit bad dodging as far as I do, thing is though I still need to dodge and if I have you bleeding and all I have to do is stay alive, well I'm not going to trade with you.

darkspawn2101
04-02-2017, 09:26 PM
Needs removed. Period. It's the worst class in the game balance wise and the people who are defending her are just resistant to change.

When she's banned from tournaments, you know she's bad.

Gray360UK
04-02-2017, 09:31 PM
Needs removed. Period. It's the worst class in the game balance wise and the people who are defending her are just resistant to change.

When she's banned from tournaments, you know she's bad.

So when someone else tells you she's bad, she's bad, you mean?

That's all the proof you need, right?

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/109/590x/Lamb-in-the-grass-567099.jpg

It was one Tournament as well, I believe, because people whined. Sheeple whined. Like many people do here. We're not playing in your Tournament anymore if you let PKs in, waaaaaaaaa.

If I make a GRAY360UK Tournament and ban Raiders, they're bad too, right? :rolleyes:

CandleInTheDark
04-02-2017, 09:32 PM
So when someone else tells you she's bad, she's bad, you mean?

That's all the proof you need, right?

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/109/590x/Lamb-in-the-grass-567099.jpg

It was one Tournament as well, I believe, because people whined. Sheeple whined.

If I make a GRAY360UK Tournament and ban Raiders, they're bad too, right? :rolleyes:

That sheep is so cute it makes me smile. The other sheep not so much.

JediGamerFurius
04-02-2017, 09:35 PM
So when someone else tells you she's bad, she's bad, you mean?

That's all the proof you need, right?

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/109/590x/Lamb-in-the-grass-567099.jpg

It was one Tournament as well, I believe, because people whined. Sheeple whined. Like many people do here. We're not playing in your Tournament anymore if you let PKs in, waaaaaaaaa.

If I make a GRAY360UK Tournament and ban Raiders, they're bad too, right? :rolleyes:
Your main character is going to be nerfed, learn to play with she again or if your not happy, get another char and learn to play with it. Quit crying.

CandleInTheDark
04-02-2017, 09:39 PM
*shrugs* whatever they do to her I'll play her, she was the one I wanted before I bought the game and before I knew any of her capabilities other than that she was a dual wielding knight-assassin.

Gray360UK
04-02-2017, 09:42 PM
Your main character is going to be nerfed, learn to play with she again or if your not happy, get another char and learn to play with it. Quit crying.

Don't be a child. No one is crying. The pages on your 'How to Forum Troll' manual must be getting a bit worn with all that overuse ...

Try to talk like an adult. Please?

If you want to take part seriously, you will see that Candle and I are calling for nerfs, not crying about them, and making it clear that what they are currently planning to nerf is not going to make the PK nightmare go away, quite the opposite.

You will get Light Attack spammed just as much as you always did, don't you worry about that.

More, probably, as that ever popular too fast / can't react / can't block move, which the community loves so much, the very reason she got banned from the MLG tournament, is not being nerfed at all ;)

JediGamerFurius
04-02-2017, 09:43 PM
Don't be a child. No one is crying. The pages on your How to Forum Troll manual must be getting a bit worn with all that overuse ...

Try to talk like an adult. Please?

Oh no yeah sure... learn not to be stupid

CandleInTheDark
04-02-2017, 09:45 PM
Oh no yeah sure... learn not to be stupid

Given your reading and understanding levels appear to be lacking I suggest that is a matter of pot and kettle there.

JediGamerFurius
04-02-2017, 09:51 PM
Don't be a child. No one is crying. The pages on your 'How to Forum Troll' manual must be getting a bit worn with all that overuse ...

Try to talk like an adult. Please?

If you want to take part seriously, you will see that Candle and I are calling for nerfs, not crying about them, and making it clear that what they are currently planning to nerf is not going to make the PK nightmare go away, quite the opposite.

You will get Light Attack spammed just as much as you always did, don't you worry about that. More, probably ;)

Not just light atak, bleed as well, and isn't me who was talking, is the hole comunity. It will be allways like that when they create a game, I've seen this a thousand times, some class are stronger than others. They try to ballance to make a good fun for everybody. There is a some videos on youtube wich proves OP and it has been posted here. But anyway, keep ask for not nerfing.

Gray360UK
04-02-2017, 09:57 PM
Not just light atak, bleed as well, and isn't me who was talking, is the hole comunity. It will be allways like that when they create a game, I've seen this a thousand times, some class are stronger than others. They try to ballance to make a good fun for everybody. There is a some videos on youtube wich proves OP and it has been posted here. But anyway, keep ask for not nerfing.

Candle was right about the understanding part I guess ...

You're one of those people who isn't actually listening to the other person, you're just waiting for your chance to say what you already thought again, right?

JediGamerFurius
04-02-2017, 10:06 PM
Candle was right about the understanding part I guess ...

You're one of those people who isn't actually listening to the other person, you're just waiting for your chance to say what you already thought again, right?

No you don't listen. I just sayed, they will do some modifications, play as usual, if it needs to change your gameplay with PK, then change it. Simple as that.

CandleInTheDark
04-02-2017, 10:11 PM
Thing is you're not actually reading what we are saying but whatever,your choice to not learn how to communicate I guess.

Bob__Gnarly
04-02-2017, 11:05 PM
LOL PK only needs some minor tweaks and is getting them, players get so salty in this game.

UbiJurassic
04-02-2017, 11:32 PM
As a reminder, it is against Forum Rules to flame one another (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/907678-Forum-Rules?p=10142071&viewfull=1#post10142071). Please refrain from this behavior going forward or the community team will be forced to close this thread.

Raven-Mad
04-03-2017, 04:24 AM
So when someone else tells you she's bad, she's bad, you mean?

That's all the proof you need, right?

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/109/590x/Lamb-in-the-grass-567099.jpg

It was one Tournament as well, I believe, because people whined. Sheeple whined. Like many people do here. We're not playing in your Tournament anymore if you let PKs in, waaaaaaaaa.

If I make a GRAY360UK Tournament and ban Raiders, they're bad too, right? :rolleyes:

Not that I agree with his reasoning, but your response is equally unsound. He didn't say because someone else says so, that therefore it's true. He said because a large group of the best players (essentially experts) say so, it's probably true. MLG and high level opinion do matter, it's like having a bunch of biologists say authoritatively the theory of evolution is true. That doesn't make the theory of evolution true, but it provides evidence that it is because they're experts and likely to be correct when speaking in unison.

Also afaik, it was a series of tourneys, I could be wrong though. I'm a PC player, don't partake in console tourneys.

SendRickPics
04-03-2017, 04:48 AM
Not that I agree with his reasoning, but your response is equally unsound. He didn't say because someone else says so, that therefore it's true. He said because a large group of the best players (essentially experts) say so, it's probably true. MLG and high level opinion do matter, it's like having a bunch of biologists say authoritatively the theory of evolution is true. That doesn't make the theory of evolution true, but it provides evidence that it is because they're experts and likely to be correct when speaking in unison.

That's actually another logical fallacy right there. Appeal to authority fallacy, Argumentum ad Verecundiam or Argumentum ad Auctoritatem.

Nothing makes these players "experts" other than that they have some talent in this game and that they've participated in tournaments, which almost anyone can do with enough practice.

Essentially you're saying that these people who are claiming themselves to be experts, or you yourselves are designating them as "expert" and that should give their word more weight or even be taken as gospel. While an authority in a field can add their opinion to a discussion, ultimately the most weight is thrown about by the objective evidence at play. Objectively we have numbers, statistics, etc. showing what the character is capable of. When in the right hands, they can push the character to her potential, however that point is subjective and varies from person to person.



As an aside, The "Theory of Evolution" is actually pretty close to being a scientific and biological law, the problem is that scientific laws have to be expressed within a concise mathematical equation. Evolution cannot be broken down as such, which is why it is regarded as a Theory, however one that has much merit. As a life sciences major myself I've studied numerous data points and examples of evidence showing that evolution does in fact take place, both in slow and quick paces. The difference between your comparison of Biologists "authoritatively states that the Theory of Evolution is true" vs the "MLG experts of For Honor" as you put them, is that the Biologists have to have peer reviewed evidence. Tested, retested, and tested some more. They have to have evidence that is beyond reproach.

However that's another discussion for another time.

katarzyna1974
04-03-2017, 05:03 AM
Well yes PK doesn't need a nerf, because its already the weakest class in the game. Ubisoft needs to make this class viable for competitive play. I'm not talking about noobs in MLG tournaments, but people that actually know how to play. Peacekeeper is a noob killer and nothing more.

Gray360UK
04-03-2017, 12:43 PM
Not that I agree with his reasoning, but your response is equally unsound. He didn't say because someone else says so, that therefore it's true. He said because a large group of the best players (essentially experts) say so, it's probably true. MLG and high level opinion do matter, it's like having a bunch of biologists say authoritatively the theory of evolution is true. That doesn't make the theory of evolution true, but it provides evidence that it is because they're experts and likely to be correct when speaking in unison.

Also afaik, it was a series of tourneys, I could be wrong though. I'm a PC player, don't partake in console tourneys.

No he didn't say that. You're assuming that on his behalf. He said 'when she is banned from tournaments, you know she is bad'. It's more likely that hearing that a tournament has banned PKs (were forced to by people threatening not to participate, more accurately) is all the 'evidence' he needs. Therefore, someone else says so ... We have nothing to indicate he has come to his own conclusions based on anything he has seen or done or played.

I disagree that they are 'experts' (no more so than I am) and they are certainly not on a par with Biologists who know things we don't because of years of study and personal experience in the field. Especially when we are talking about a game that has been out for 6 weeks.

I press X to Guard Break, these 'experts' of yours press X to Guard Break. There's too much hero worship going on when it comes to anyone who livestreams, YouTubes or hosts a tournament. Anyone can do these things. There is absolutely nothing special about these individuals at all. They do not have 'high level opinion', or at least, if they do, so do I.

You know if a bunch of whiny ragequitters decide to host a tournament they are still a bunch of whiny ragequitters? Considering that we are posting in a thread where someone calls for PKs to simply be deleted .... do you think such people can't end up in tournaments? Do you think tournament participants have to pass some kind of 'reasonable person' test?

What makes anyone who plays a lot / hosts a tournament into an immaculate being that can't be wrong / must be right? See this is the problem I am getting at. The guy you are talking about, saying 'well tournaments did this ...' is happy to accept their opinion without question because of who they are. They're in a tournament, wow! They're special! Why? To me this is only a small step above the teenage fan girls who squee over Justin Bieber because he is so special, when actually he appears to be a bit of a [censored]. It's not a good thing when you let others tell you how things are because you believe they are at some sort of elevated level.

Case in point, if 'everyone' says For Honor is bad / dead is it bad / dead?

Anyway, pedantics aside, let's see how she plays when the next patch hits and if people stop moaning. I doubt it because they haven't touched light spam, but thats another discussion ...

CandleInTheDark
04-03-2017, 01:12 PM
And as was shown in this thread, the bandwagon is now so mindless that people don't even know skilled play from the kind of play that gave peacekeeper her bad image to begin with, they just know that the person who did it says she is overpowered and others say she needs to be deleted. That is when it is dangerous to go by he said she said.

Prophit618
04-03-2017, 04:26 PM
I don't really have anything to add, but as another PK main asking for intelligent nerfs (mostly get rid of the ZA cancel, or at least do something about the speed of the first part), I feel like I should chime in here....
So yeah. What Candle and Gray said.
If you have a choice between listening to someone parroting the "community"'s whining and someone actually making reasoned points and trying to back up their statements without simply resorting to personal attacks....go with the latter.

Raven-Mad
04-03-2017, 11:16 PM
That's actually another logical fallacy right there. Appeal to authority fallacy, Argumentum ad Verecundiam or Argumentum ad Auctoritatem.

Do you know how infuriating it is (as someone who studies philosophy day in and day out) to see random people on the web repeatedly and egregiously misuse "fallacies"? They always have to use the Latin words for it too instead of using the common English for it, usually to demonstrate how knowledgeable they are. Ugh.

Arguments from authority are not inherently fallacious, They're fallacious when used deductively in place of actual evidence, or when the person isn't an actual authority, or when the individual happens to be a minority among authorities on the subject in question (or is controversial among experts at least).

It is, however, logically sound to suggest that if there's an authority consensus, it's probably correct.

Sources:

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/21/Appeal-to-Authority
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority


Nothing makes these players "experts" other than that they have some talent in this game and that they've participated in tournaments, which almost anyone can do with enough practice.

The high level/MLG community, for any game, is as close as you can get to experts. This doesn't mean they're absolutely correct, we all have biases and misunderstandings. This does not mean they're not experts, they are as I'm using the term. They're the most experienced and best players in the game on average.


Essentially you're saying that these people who are claiming themselves to be experts, or you yourselves are designating them as "expert" and that should give their word more weight or even be taken as gospel. While an authority in a field can add their opinion to a discussion, ultimately the most weight is thrown about by the objective evidence at play. Objectively we have numbers, statistics, etc. showing what the character is capable of. When in the right hands, they can push the character to her potential, however that point is subjective and varies from person to person.

I formed a probabilistic argument, nothing about taking their word as gospel is required. These premises are not part of an argument, but please tell me if you disagree with either of them:

1) The MLG/High level part of the community generally know more about the mechanics/balance than others in the community because they use it and experience it most frequently and in it's highest/purest form (IoW, they're always trying super hard to win so they abuse mechanics and play for any small advantage)..
2) If this first claim is true, then when they act in unison as a whole their proclamation DOES mean more than your average joe's proclomation from an epistemic sense (note epistemic, google it if you don't understand it please).

Again, you'd be hard pressed to find a person in the high level community that DOESN'T main PK who doesn't feel PK is far too strong in it's current iteration.


As an aside, The "Theory of Evolution" is actually pretty close to being a scientific and biological law, the problem is that scientific laws have to be expressed within a concise mathematical equation. Evolution cannot be broken down as such, which is why it is regarded as a Theory, however one that has much merit. As a life sciences major myself I've studied numerous data points and examples of evidence showing that evolution does in fact take place, both in slow and quick paces. The difference between your comparison of Biologists "authoritatively states that the Theory of Evolution is true" vs the "MLG experts of For Honor" as you put them, is that the Biologists have to have peer reviewed evidence. Tested, retested, and tested some more. They have to have evidence that is beyond reproach.

Interesting, though it is off topic until the latter portion. In fact many biologists need have no tested evidence for the theory of Evolution, only those who worked on Evolution specifically did/do. Not all biologists focus on objects directly involving the theory of evolution, so their opinions can be relatively uncertain on the subject.

Also since philosophy of science is a hobby of mine, I'm gonna have to correct you on a small point: scientific "evidence" is never beyond reproach in many fields of science, as they rely on inductive reasoning and induction can be and often is wrong. Whereas a mathematical equation is done through deduction, and is a theoretical matter of the fundamental laws of logic, inductive methods hold certain assumptions that make it open to failure. That's why I believe the theory of Evolution is certainly probably true to a large extent, but not certain like, say, 2+2 = 4 or all married men are not bachelors (law of non-contradiction).

Raven-Mad
04-03-2017, 11:44 PM
No he didn't say that. You're assuming that on his behalf. He said 'when she is banned from tournaments, you know she is bad'. It's more likely that hearing that a tournament has banned PKs (were forced to by people threatening not to participate, more accurately) is all the 'evidence' he needs. Therefore, someone else says so ... We have nothing to indicate he has come to his own conclusions based on anything he has seen or done or played.

There's something called a charity filter in philosophy and more broadly in human interaction and discussion. You take what your opponent/conversation partner is saying in it's strongest form, you assume he or she is making the best point he could be from what he has said unless you have reason not to. We can all target each other harshly for slight misteps in speaking, or phrase each other's arguments to be as weakly as they possibly could... but then we get nowhere.


I disagree that they are 'experts' (no more so than I am) and they are certainly not on a par with Biologists who know things we don't because of years of study and personal experience in the field. Especially when we are talking about a game that has been out for 6 weeks.

An expert can be a relative statement, not an absolute one. An expert doesn't need to meet an absolute line (say years of study) to be an expert, he need only be especially qualified to discuss a certain topic. Certainly the game is young, but there are those among us who do understand it's mechanics rather deeply already.


I press X to Guard Break, these 'experts' of yours press X to Guard Break. There's too much hero worship going on when it comes to anyone who livestreams, YouTubes or hosts a tournament. Anyone can do these things. There is absolutely nothing special about these individuals at all. They do not have 'high level opinion', or at least, if they do, so do I.

It's not about livestreaming, youtubes, or hosting tournaments. It's about people we've consciously witnessed and experienced participating in combat at a very high level consistently for quite a while. It's not BECAUSE say Extheleon is a youtuber that he's an expert on Warden, it's because when you watch his Youtube or Twitch if you know what you're looking for you can tell he's leagues beyond most Wardens and plays at that level pretty consistently.


You know if a bunch of whiny ragequitters decide to host a tournament they are still a bunch of whiny ragequitters? Considering that we are posting in a thread where someone calls for PKs to simply be deleted .... do you think such people can't end up in tournaments? Do you think tournament participants have to pass some kind of 'reasonable person' test?

But we're not talking about faux MLG or high level players. If you want to challenge the people as being not truly MLG/high level in specific, then fine, let's go over it and look at the evidence. I personally think it's very reasonable to suggest that most MLG/high level players are far above the average in terms of skill and knowledge, as this has been my experience in literally every game ever. If you disagree, let's discuss that. A ragequitter isn't suddenly mlg/high level if he hosts a tourney. If he's an MLG/high level player who also rage quits, his rage quitting does not disqualify him from having very educated views.


What makes anyone who plays a lot / hosts a tournament into an immaculate being that can't be wrong / must be right? See this is the problem I am getting at. The guy you are talking about, saying 'well tournaments did this ...' is happy to accept their opinion without question because of who they are. They're in a tournament, wow! They're special! Why? To me this is only a small step above the teenage fan girls who squee over Justin Bieber because he is so special, when actually he appears to be a bit of a [censored]. It's not a good thing when you let others tell you how things are because you believe they are at some sort of elevated level.

There's this constant straw manning here of phrasing my point as if I'm saying you can't challenge them. I'm not. I'm saying they're fairly trustworthy when taken as a GROUP, not as individuals. That's not to say they actually are right, they could be wrong in spite of that fact.


Case in point, if 'everyone' says For Honor is bad / dead is it bad / dead?

No because now you're conflating appealing to experts to appealing to the majority. I'm not doing that, I'm appealing to a consensus among experts or those who are the closest thing we have to experts.

As a side not, again, despite what some of you have read on wikipedia, argumentum ad populum can be a valid inductive point. Fallacies like these are usually only fallacies in terms of deductive reasoning (as you put it, lots of people believe x, therefore x is true).


Anyway, pedantics aside, let's see how she plays when the next patch hits and if people stop moaning. I doubt it because they haven't touched light spam, but thats another discussion ...

Oh I agree, this nerf hasn't gone quite far enough. The zone attack needed nerf. The dodge attack idk if it needed it, but it's only 5 points different (significant but it hardly eliminates it as a useful move). The lights need to be dealt with after the zone is.