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View Full Version : Deflects are kinda useless: Suggestion



blue23454
03-29-2017, 10:21 PM
So Twitch streamer Allakazzaror made a comment last night that would make for a neat game mechanic. I say neat, specifically, because it's an interesting idea that I don't think would see much use in play.

He called this a light parry, if you light attack during the parry window, it initiates the light parry, both parties take no damage, neither gets staggered, and both are able to continue their chains. Kinda sounds like a deflect if you ask me.

So what if that's how Assassins deflected instead of dodging. Currently deflecting is much harder, more punishable (feint into gb), and nets less reward than parrying. Deflecting by light parry would:

Make deflecting easier than it currently is, without being as easy as alpha (and still having less value than a parry)
AND
Make deflect attempts harder to punish, but more punishing. Ex. your opponent can get a free parry on your light if you try to deflect (light attacks are committed to on input); if your opponent is expecting to parry a heavy you may get some damage in same as a feint into light attack to open up your opponent (deflects and parries can be alternated as a sort of mix up)


Of course there's more important things like the turtle meta and zone flicker that need fixing first, but I do believe deflects would be a nice tool for assassins to have if implemented this way.

Simi_Xiamara_
03-29-2017, 10:28 PM
How are deflects worthless? Orochi has a light and heavy deflect that auto procs and berserker has a guardbreak deflect. PK only one with a worthless deflect but adding deflects to a pk light attack don't sound like a good idea.

Fruttie
03-29-2017, 10:29 PM
I haven't had alot of experience with assasin hero's but from what I can tell deflect is not supposed to be easy to land. Its a high risk, high reward thing. The besterker for example gets an autoguardbreak if he gets a deflect on his opponent. If you have to consider feinting then it gets harder yes, but assasins dodge alot in general anyway so I dont really see the probem with this.

Simi_Xiamara_
03-29-2017, 10:31 PM
This would be a great mechanic for all heros if they made chip damage a actual threat that way ppl have to "light parry it" make light parry easyer then a parry and. This would kill turtle meta completely.

Fruttie
03-29-2017, 10:41 PM
This would be a great mechanic for all heros if they made chip damage a actual threat that way ppl have to "light parry it" make light parry easyer then a parry and. This would kill turtle meta completely.

Giving all hero's a light parry would be silly though. People will just cancel eachothers attacks out for days that way.

But yeah chip damage should matter more then it does now. I'd say chip damage should do between 20~40 percent of your original attack depending on the "block damage" and "block damage resistance" stats of gear.

CandleInTheDark
03-29-2017, 11:23 PM
The thing is that cancels out heroes that already have that mechanic like the Valkyrie with theitr light attacks and the Warden with their top light, there are others but I can't bring them to mind right now. Speaking as someone with assassin levels, I also kind of find that harder but that is partially because I have a lotof game time on Monster Hunter and dodging into the direction of the attack to set off i-frames is key to surviving the later game ,especially when you played the less armoured range weapons as I did, so in my case deflect was only a matter of learning the timing against the bots.

eliteslayer66
03-30-2017, 12:37 AM
I personally think that sideways attacks should never be dashed through UNLESS you deflect.

BOOM! helped law and raider while also making deflect more valuable.

Mia.Nora
03-30-2017, 12:51 AM
Deflect, or intentionally attempting to do so is stupid at best in current mechanics.

* If you fail to parry, you can fall back to guard.
* Deflect is way harder to perform than parry.
* Deflect reward is so small compared to free GB after parry.
* Deflect is bugged(?) right now, when you successfully deflect one attack, enemy can still keep attacking and sometimes even hit you before your deflect+(insert class specific) is performed
* Also being baited to parry is not that deadly since you can also cancel. If you do get baited to deflect that is handing a free GB

All in all it is an extremely high risk, and extremely low reward mechanic. I only do it to see how cool it looks, that's all.

cragar212
03-30-2017, 12:59 AM
Why they added useless stuff like deflect just shows lack of testing

CandleInTheDark
03-30-2017, 01:00 AM
It's not that difficult, I could get deflect six times in ten as a peacekeeper and another two were outright dodges. Not played as the orochi but berserker also if I went for a deflect guardbreak I was on about the same form as peacekeeper, the only character I had a problem with was the valkyrie possibly because it was deflect or nothing so it was a riskier move for her.

Egotistic_Ez
03-30-2017, 01:30 AM
Deflect is only worthless because parry is overpowered. You're trying to treat a symptom, not the cause.

teksuo1
03-30-2017, 01:36 AM
conqueror's version of deflect often allows me to shift momentum and takeover.
*it's not technically a deflect but the block automatically goes to the direction i dodge towards.
parries are sweet and all but it's nice to have other options.

MassiveD.
03-30-2017, 02:20 AM
Real talk, deflect is insane on Valkyrie tho.

Since she gets directional blocking in the direction she is dashing, its actually kinda god like, since you can substitute parrying with it.

It really neuters feinters, since you can't fake her out if shes trying to catch you with deflect, and it's really good against people with long reach weapons

CandleInTheDark
03-30-2017, 02:27 AM
I keep getting hit going in but that is perhaps hitting the attack for shoulder pin too early in anticipation since yeah the shield leads.

TCTF_SWAT
03-30-2017, 03:47 AM
PK's delfect is rather pointless. Since parry>GB is a thing.

The zerk's and (sadly) cockroach's deflects are better. PK's deflect only does 24 damage (a hair under a bar). I said this before. Get rid of PK's bleed on verything except her GB stabs. And give her something else.

corazondedelfin
03-30-2017, 11:28 AM
Deflects are plain stupid, so THEY HAVE TO BE EASILY DONE, something has to change about them!

Plus, what the **** is wrong with the huge unbalance between deflects: Zerker gets a GB, PeacekeeperOP gets you poisoned with a hit, and Orochi gets nothing but a light fast hit and that if you remember to press the button? HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

DrExtrem
03-30-2017, 11:31 AM
PK's delfect is rather pointless. Since parry>GB is a thing.

The zerk's and (sadly) cockroach's deflects are better. PK's deflect only does 24 damage (a hair under a bar). I said this before. Get rid of PK's bleed on verything except her GB stabs. And give her something else.

I agree.

When you are playing pk, you don't actively try do deflect (except for training or to mess with peoples minds), you only welcome the free damage, if it happens.

Viruletic
03-30-2017, 11:32 AM
Deflects on PK are actually pretty safe, besides the parry aspect. Correct timing and you land an unblockable bleed, incorrect timing and you can lead by moving into a sidestep heavy or just wait for the GB to hit you.

Or if you just suck at dodging you'll get hit regardless.

corazondedelfin
03-30-2017, 11:43 AM
I agree.

When you are playing pk, you don't actively try do deflect (except for training or to mess with peoples minds), you only welcome the free damage, if it happens.

What he wrote is bullsh1t, an orochi gets nothing for a deflect, NOTHING. Peacekeeper gets poison and a hit, and Berserker gets a guardbreak.

Are you f0cking kidding me?

DrExtrem
03-30-2017, 12:03 PM
What he wrote is bullsh1t, an orochi gets nothing for a deflect, NOTHING. Peacekeeper gets poison and a hit, and Berserker gets a guardbreak.

Are you f0cking kidding me?

The deflect-bleed does less damage, than a GB-tripple stab and it is less flexible, than a double-stab & kick combo, which lets you deal damage AND disengage.

Deflect attacks on pk are nice if they happen but you don't activity go for them.

The the light deflect from the orochi is relatively safe to use. The heavy attack is risky and only advisable to use vs. very slow heroes.

corazondedelfin
03-30-2017, 12:06 PM
The deflect-bleed does less damage, than a GB-tripple stab and it is less flexible, than a double-stab & kick combo, which lets you deal damage AND disengage.

Deflect attacks on pk are nice if they happen but you don't activity go for them.

The the light deflect from the orochi is relatively safe to use. The heavy attack is risky and only advisable to use vs. very slow heroes.

Risky?? RISKY??? ARE YOU FKING KIDDING ME? I NEVER ACHIEVED TO DO IT AND I TRY IT EVERYDAY SINCE I STARTED TO PLAY!!!!!!! AND IM THE BEST OROCHI YOU WILL SEE IN THIS FORUM!!!! LIGHT ATTACK AFTER DEFLECT YOU CAN DO IT BUT ITS NOTHING, JUST A LIGHT HIT! THE OTHER ONE IS JUST IMPOSSIBLE WITH ANYONE WITH A BRAIN IN FRONT OF YOU!!!!!!! GO SEE BY YOURSELF BEFORE TALKING AND LEAVING YOURSELF AS A FOOL WITH SUCH AN EASY WAY TO TALK!!!

DrExtrem
03-30-2017, 12:11 PM
Risky?? RISKY??? ARE YOU FKING KIDDING ME? I NEVER ACHIEVED TO DO IT AND I TRY IT EVERYDAY SINCE I STARTED TO PLAY!!!!!!! AND IM THE BEST OROCHI YOU WILL SEE IN THIS FORUM!!!! LIGHT ATTACK AFTER DEFLECT YOU CAN DO IT BUT ITS NOTHING, JUST A LIGHT HIT! THE OTHER ONE IS JUST IMPOSSIBLE WITH ANYONE WITH A BRAIN IN FRONT OF YOU!!!!!!! GO SEE BY YOURSELF BEFORE TALKING AND LEAVING YOURSELF AS A FOOL WITH SUCH AN EASY WAY TO TALK!!!

If you are as short tempered ingame, as you are here, I highly doubt, that you are the "BEST OROCHI YOU WILL SEE IN THIS FORUM".

If you want to be taken seriously, you should change your tone.

corazondedelfin
03-30-2017, 12:14 PM
If you are as short tempered ingame, as you are here, I highly doubt, that you are the "BEST OROCHI YOU WILL SEE IN THIS FORUM".

If you want to be taken seriously, you should change your tone.

Im peaceful in a fight as a samurai has to be. Im different here cause you force me to be different, Im tired of so many people in the forum talking so easily without knowing anything.

Go right now take an orochi, enter to PVP and if you do a heavy deflect and record it, I pay you. See how sure I am DrExtrem, see how sure I am.

If you dont want me to be angry, dont say stupidities, cause I run out of patience in here. And you saw some of the reasons why in the last days in this forum.

I can show you my ingame stats and my forhonortracker profile if you dont believe my words.

Viruletic
03-30-2017, 12:15 PM
Risky?? RISKY??? ARE YOU FKING KIDDING ME? I NEVER ACHIEVED TO DO IT AND I TRY IT EVERYDAY SINCE I STARTED TO PLAY!!!!!!! AND IM THE BEST OROCHI YOU WILL SEE IN THIS FORUM!!!! LIGHT ATTACK AFTER DEFLECT YOU CAN DO IT BUT ITS NOTHING, JUST A LIGHT HIT! THE OTHER ONE IS JUST IMPOSSIBLE WITH ANYONE WITH A BRAIN IN FRONT OF YOU!!!!!!! GO SEE BY YOURSELF BEFORE TALKING AND LEAVING YOURSELF AS A FOOL WITH SUCH AN EASY WAY TO TALK!!!

I'm probably the worst orochi in the game, but I've landed a deflect heavy or 2.

What do you want from it honestly? You get a Dodge and a guaranteed poke. Your entire playstyle should revolve around deflects, but rather be an extension of the Assassin class, using mobility to mess with the enemy and get pokes in where you can.

You use deflects as added pressure, with your main pressure coming from fast switches from a hidden neutral stance. The only thing I hate about the orochi playstyle is the absolutely required and predictable overhead light+dodge light spamming.

corazondedelfin
03-30-2017, 12:18 PM
I'm probably the worst orochi in the game, but I've landed a deflect heavy or 2.


Against a zombie (stupid derp player), sure, I did that too. If he has brains, you will never do it.

I really shouldnt be on the forum for longer today, Im getting really upset and I dont want to be like this.

Have a nice day everyone.

MassiveD.
03-30-2017, 12:21 PM
Risky?? RISKY??? ARE YOU FKING KIDDING ME? I NEVER ACHIEVED TO DO IT AND I TRY IT EVERYDAY SINCE I STARTED TO PLAY!!!!!!! AND IM THE BEST OROCHI YOU WILL SEE IN THIS FORUM!!!! LIGHT ATTACK AFTER DEFLECT YOU CAN DO IT BUT ITS NOTHING, JUST A LIGHT HIT! THE OTHER ONE IS JUST IMPOSSIBLE WITH ANYONE WITH A BRAIN IN FRONT OF YOU!!!!!!! GO SEE BY YOURSELF BEFORE TALKING AND LEAVING YOURSELF AS A FOOL WITH SUCH AN EASY WAY TO TALK!!!

Lol, meanwhile most mediocre stats i ever seen

https://fhtracker.com/profile/psn/corazondedelfin

DrExtrem
03-30-2017, 12:27 PM
Im peaceful in a fight as a samurai has to be. Im different here cause you force me to be different, Im tired of so many people in the forum talking so easily without knowing anything.

Go right now take an orochi, enter to PVP and if you do a heavy deflect and record it, I pay you. See how sure I am DrExtrem, see how sure I am.

If you dont want me to be angry, dont say stupidities, cause I run out of patience in here. And you saw some of the reasons why in the last days in this forum.

I can show you my ingame stats and my forhonortracker profile if you dont believe my words.

First. You are only playing a kind-of-a-samurai.

Second. Why should I? If you are using the heavy deflect at the wrong time, it is not my problem. IF you are playing on high level, you should be aware of the general problem with turtle meta and light attack spam. Every heavy strike outside of a GB and wall stagger are risky.

Third. If you get angry, because of a random scrub on the i-net, my advice was not wrong. Btw. you quoted me and I did not post anything on the orochi. I referred to the pk and why a parry-GB-stab combo is better, than actively going for a deflect.

You started the orochi stuff and I am ending it. Have a nice day.

corazondedelfin
03-30-2017, 12:30 PM
Lol, meanwhile most mediocre stats i ever seen

https://fhtracker.com/profile/psn/corazondedelfin

Hey assh0le, trying to make people look at the wrong stats view? Dont worry, I'll gift you another owned from the stats that I just took a photo from:

MY REAL CURRENT STATS:
http://i.imgur.com/jAycFPK.png
http://i.imgur.com/186UK61.jpg

Eat that now, troll.

THEPH0NECOMPANY
03-30-2017, 12:36 PM
Deflects are very good on Zerk and Orochi, they just need to be used situationally, like with zerk on classes that would be out of reach after a heavy parry, or for Orochi when you know you can HB for 50 damage, when used well thay are very powerful and can be used on shugoki and nobushi pretty easily

PK deflect is useless, due to both her parry punish being very strong and her light attacks being ridiculous.

Overall in this game i would like to see a nerf to parry punish frames, an increase in chip damage, i would also like to see small changes to deflect too

MassiveD.
03-30-2017, 12:58 PM
Hey assh0le, trying to make people look at the wrong stats view? Dont worry, I'll gift you another owned from the stats that I just took a photo from:

MY REAL CURRENT STATS:
http://i.imgur.com/jAycFPK.png
http://i.imgur.com/186UK61.jpg

Eat that now, troll.

There are orochis out there with 7-10 kd and 97% win rate, so congratulations on your mediocrity.

I took your stats of FH tracker just now, so I dont know what you on about.

Also you can't do deflect? Lol its so easy, get good

corazondedelfin
03-30-2017, 01:06 PM
Also you can't do deflect? Lol its so easy, get good

I can deflect just fine, what are you talking about? What I cant is what nobody else can: use hurricane dust.

Focking troll, mediocrity you say? Hahaha Show me that 2 pictures with better stats from another orochi that you know hahahaha

Troll, do you realize the whole forum will end reporting you right? xD

MassiveD.
03-30-2017, 01:25 PM
I can deflect just fine, what are you talking about? What I cant is what nobody else can: use hurricane dust.

Focking troll, mediocrity you say? Hahaha Show me that 2 pictures with better stats from another orochi that you know hahahaha

Troll, do you realize the whole forum will end reporting you right? xD

https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/Bluetack

Just one of hundreds out there, it must really hurt your soul to be so mediocre, doesn't it lol.

Btw I reported all your message that broke forum rules by circumventing profanity filter, enjoy the incoming disciplinary action ^ . ~

corazondedelfin
03-30-2017, 01:45 PM
https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/Bluetack



Are you comparing me with a nolife +1600 matches orochi PC player with almost 7 real days playing with the orochi that you dont even know or know if he is a hacker either? HAHAHAHA But seriously where are the 2 images? I didnt ask for a link that takes me to a general view of a user that serves for nothing and most of people plays just 1 character and there you dont see any other statistic, with the 2 images that I requested you you can see all, anyway you dont know him or her and you have no idea about if he is cheating or hacking, so f*ck off and report this too. WHAT A TROLL INDEED YOU ARE.

MassiveD.
03-30-2017, 02:04 PM
Are you comparing me with a nolife +1600 matches orochi PC player with almost 7 real days playing with the orochi that you dont even know or know if he is a hacker either? HAHAHAHA But seriously where are the 2 images? I didnt ask for a link that takes me to a general view of a user that serves for nothing and most of people plays just 1 character and there you dont see any other statistic, with the 2 images that I requested you you can see all, anyway you dont know him or her and you have no idea about if he is cheating or hacking, so f*ck off and report this too. WHAT A TROLL INDEED YOU ARE.

I'm very sorry that you are nowhere near the hundreds of top orochi players out there, in the future try not to claim nonsence, like that you are one of the top , which you are clearly not and likely that will ever be :rolleyes:

#debunked

Alustar.exe
03-30-2017, 02:48 PM
Did this dude really just ask for proof then say the proof was invalid?
You seriously just ICPeed all over this thread! Lol, you don't understand how magnets and blankets work, but you don't want to hear alternative facts about it?

blue23454
03-31-2017, 10:34 AM
I haven't had alot of experience with assasin hero's but from what I can tell deflect is not supposed to be easy to land. Its a high risk, high reward thing. The besterker for example gets an autoguardbreak if he gets a deflect on his opponent. If you have to consider feinting then it gets harder yes, but assassins dodge alot in general anyway so I dont really see the probem with this. Thanks for your input! It should be high risk high reward, the problem is, it's high risk low reward.

If your opponent is clearly attempting deflects, it can be baited with a heavy + feint into guard break for a free grab. Baiting out a parry, on the other hand, can be cancelled.
PK deflect gives free bleed, PK parry + gb gives triple bleed and stamina damage
Berserker deflect gives free gb, Zerker parry gives free gb and stamina damage
Orochi deflect gives a free light with damage similar (but less IIRC) to a top heavy, parry gives free gb, top heavy, and stamina damage. Alternatively, he has a heavy that does massive damage, but this move is riskier and is mostly good for cancelling into one of three options that are easier to pull off without the heavy to begin with (dodge, light, or guard break)

This wasn't a post to say that deflecting is too hard, or that the reward isn't good enough, in a vacuum I think the concept is fine. The problem is that, compared to parries, deflects are riskier, harder, and less rewarding. I don't want deflect to be better than parrying, I think parrying should be stronger, but in comparison there's virtually no reason to deflect when parrying is so much better. A mechanic like this could give the assassins an easier time opening up opponents; and if given to all heroes (similar to what Allakazzaror suggested, simply giving assassins these "special" attacks on light parry) could actually help with the turtle meta by giving more rewards to light attacks with proper timing.

EDIT: Attacks like Warden's CCS, or Warlord's lights would function the same, as they have that block property on startup

PepsiBeastin
04-01-2017, 12:15 AM
How are deflects worthless? Orochi has a light and heavy deflect that auto procs and berserker has a guardbreak deflect. PK only one with a worthless deflect but adding deflects to a pk light attack don't sound like a good idea.

Orochi deflect attacks don't "auto proc". If you don't press an attack button, nothing happens. ALSO, the heavy attack is extremely telegraphed and people just mash lights, knocking your out of it and making your deflect useless.