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Grif-in
03-26-2017, 01:00 PM
So I was playing with bots, and i saw this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V19Xg67gMsw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HuKbfjf1IhA

Will this ever be released for players?

Eirmund
03-26-2017, 03:18 PM
Look up BigHatLogan.

Dude had videos of every emote on every hero. I got the game I noticed that alot of the emotes he showed were missing and just like you, noticed that the bots were using them. Well, guess what? Some of those emotes were recently released with a 7000 Steel price tag. So yeah, they're done and in the game, but Ubi is gonna release them bit by bit for more and more Steel.

Awesome, right? ( Sarcasm )

CandleInTheDark
03-26-2017, 03:32 PM
They're cosmetic tools and unless you are trying to main every character (and yes I don't think the intention ever was someone would get all characters to reputation ten and unlock everything on all of them, people tend to get a build or class they like), the steel you get in orders and after games is more than enough to add your own personality to any one main in short order. I haven't bothered spending mine but I have enough as it is for likely one effect, one execution and one emote and I haven't bothered with orders for ages. The only time I bought steel was to unlock the roster and that was my fault because I nearly dropped my pad and on grabbing it accidentally bought an outfit.

Eirmund
03-26-2017, 04:14 PM
They're cosmetic tools and unless you are trying to main every character (and yes I don't think the intention ever was someone would get all characters to reputation ten and unlock everything on all of them, people tend to get a build or class they like), the steel you get in orders and after games is more than enough to add your own personality to any one main in short order. I haven't bothered spending mine but I have enough as it is for likely one effect, one execution and one emote and I haven't bothered with orders for ages. The only time I bought steel was to unlock the roster and that was my fault because I nearly dropped my pad and on grabbing it accidentally bought an outfit.

That is and always has been a weak argument. Whether or not someone tries to unlock everything is irrelevant, we paid for it so by rights we should be able to access or even unlock it without having to spend such high amounts of Steel. Who cares, like seriously, who freakin' cares if you're not supposed to main everyone? Why not? Why can't someone eventually unlock everything for everyone without spending 2.5 years on the game? Realistically there are tons of gamers that like to unlock everything in a game, whether they need to or not, but 2.5 years is a LONG time for a game, even a good game with tons of players. But that's not the issue here:

The issue is that all this content is clearly on Disc but we can't access it. We can't access content on something we paid for because Ubi wants to block it off so they can use it to make more money. Don't try to pretend that that isn't the issue, because it is. If they've already made it and put it on disc, what would they lose for allowing us to access it? Absolutely nothing. They've already basically admitted that the Steel needed for things is only going to increase because they've noticed people saving up their Steel and they want to make them spend it.

Don't get me wrong, I love this game, but i'm not one of those people that can pick one character and stick with them for an extremely long time. I like to learn and master each character that interests me and I want to make them look good while doing that. That's not a crime.

The problem is that Ubi's business model makes For Honor look like a Free-to-Play game, except that it isn't. It's a game we spent $60 on. We shouldn't be subjected to such a model. You can disagree and argue it, but there's a reason that F2P is done the way it is. It needs to be that way to make money because they developed a game for free.

CitizenPuddi
03-26-2017, 04:24 PM
That is and always has been a weak argument. Whether or not someone tries to unlock everything is irrelevant, we paid for it so by rights we should be able to access or even unlock it without having to spend such high amounts of Steel. Who cares, like seriously, who freakin' cares if you're not supposed to main everyone? Why not? Why can't someone eventually unlock everything for everyone without spending 2.5 years on the game? Realistically there are tons of gamers that like to unlock everything in a game, whether they need to or not, but 2.5 years is a LONG time for a game, even a good game with tons of players. But that's not the issue here:

The issue is that all this content is clearly on Disc but we can't access it. We can't access content on something we paid for because Ubi wants to block it off so they can use it to make more money. Don't try to pretend that that isn't the issue, because it is. If they've already made it and put it on disc, what would they lose for allowing us to access it? Absolutely nothing. They've already basically admitted that the Steel needed for things is only going to increase because they've noticed people saving up their Steel and they want to make them spend it.

Don't get me wrong, I love this game, but i'm not one of those people that can pick one character and stick with them for an extremely long time. I like to learn and master each character that interests me and I want to make them look good while doing that. That's not a crime.

The problem is that Ubi's business model makes For Honor look like a Free-to-Play game, except that it isn't. It's a game we spent $60 on. We shouldn't be subjected to such a model. You can disagree and argue it, but there's a reason that F2P is done the way it is. It needs to be that way to make money because they developed a game for free.

yeah man

i remember when i first got skyrim i was absolutely floored that i spent $60 and still had to grind for daedric equipment

can you believe i actually had to quest for some of the artifacts?

its ridiculous

i spent $60 on that disc

that disc that contained all of the content, yet i couldnt access it

the gaming industry is sinking to new lows these days i swear

CandleInTheDark
03-26-2017, 06:11 PM
I guess there are going to be people with different thoughts on it and that is life.At least you're not screaming that it is pay to win as I have heard people suggest, you have to geta higher rep level to get end game equipment and by the time you are there you have a lot of steel if you haven't spent it. This is pay to have a pre-done outfit and make my character do a few different things occasionally with a neat darkness/lightning/tornado effect and I am fine with that.

DizzleFresh13
03-26-2017, 06:51 PM
I'm fine with grinding for stuff in games. What I don't appreciate is when developers hold finished content back and release bits by bits of it as if they were creating new content for their fans each week when in fact they are just nickel and diming people, tricking them into spending more and more steel.

Eirmund
03-26-2017, 09:07 PM
yeah man

i remember when i first got skyrim i was absolutely floored that i spent $60 and still had to grind for daedric equipment

--HUGE difference between a content grind that takes a MAXIMUM of several months and a grind that takes a MINIMUM of 2.5 years. Try again. Also, HUGE difference between obtaining the gear with the highest stats and gear that just makes you look different. You should never have to grind that hard to obtain COSMETIC ONLY items that you've already paid for. If it was additionally cosmetic items, that would be alot different considering they're releasing content for free.

can you believe i actually had to quest for some of the artifacts?

--Can you believe that Questing for Artifacts and fighting over a 100 matches to obtain cosmetic gear are actually quite different? Can you actually believe that you should work for content that will actually affect your gameplay? And guess what. I bet that quest only took you several hours to obtain. Gee....I guess that's ALOT different than spending 7 DAYS to obtain a f***king emote. Golly. Yes, I actually did the math. You get 40 steel per match, assuming you don't do Daily Orders, that'll take roughly 172 hours ( 7 Days ) to obtain a 7000 Steel Emote.

its ridiculous

i spent $60 on that disc

that disc that contained all of the content, yet i couldnt access it

--Difference between content you can't access YET and content you can't access AT ALL. Even worse, it's content you ALREADY PAID FOR BECAUSE ITS ON DISC, but it's getting released as content you'll either have to grind 7 Days for or shell out more cash for.

the gaming industry is sinking to new lows these days i swear

--Yeah, they definitely are, especially when you excuse this policy. It just allows it to become more prevalent. Oh, and let me mention....there's a big difference between grinding for stuff in a game you can actually play OFFLINE and one that is ONLINE ONLY. As long as it's offline, I can eventually get everything. But with it being Online only, if the servers ever go down and stay down, I won't be able to grind for it. So I won't eventually be able to access all the content I bought.

Your attempt to ridicule me is cute and precious, but makes you look like an absolute tool. You simply cannot compare a game like Skyrim and a game like For Honor. Look above for the reasons why.



@CandleInTheDark Yeah, it's a very odd set-up. I've wanted to call it Pay-To-Win several times, but you actually have to play the game to even be able to buy the stuff that affects gameplay enough to be called that. And when people say that, they're referring to the gear boxes you can get with Steel, which can be bought with real money, that actually affects your stats.


I'm fine with grinding for stuff in games. What I don't appreciate is when developers hold finished content back and release bits by bits of it as if they were creating new content for their fans each week when in fact they are just nickel and diming people, tricking them into spending more and more steel.

Exactly this. I'm not upset that I have to work for the content, i'm upset that it was already on the disc to begin with and they just locked it off so they can pretend they made new content for us. I'm further upset that they're going to inflate the Steel price tags on this same content because they want people to part with the Steel they're saving up for this exact reason. It's a dumb and senseless cycle. People save up to buy expensive items, Ubi ups the price to make them spend it, people save up even more, Ubis ups price even higher. Most of those people probably have all the cosmetics on their favorite character that they want and are saving up for the new characters to come next.

CitizenPuddi
03-26-2017, 09:45 PM
The issue is that all this content is clearly on Disc but we can't access it. We can't access content on something we paid for....

Let me stop you right there.

Maybe you're new to gaming legalese, but...

You don't own For Honor.

You didn't buy any of the content.

You merely paid for the right to use it.

The software is licensed to you.


because Ubi wants to block it off so they can use it to make more money.

Yes.

I know it's crazy, but this is what companies and businesses tend to strive for. They didn't make this game out of the goodness of their heart, they want money.


Don't try to pretend that that isn't the issue, because it is. If they've already made it and put it on disc, what would they lose for allowing us to access it? Absolutely nothing.

Money. They would lose potential money. Which is what they, as a company, want to make. That's the sole purpose of For Honor existing. To make Ubisoft money. That's how pretty much all game developers work.



Don't get me wrong, I love this game, but i'm not one of those people that can pick one character and stick with them for an extremely long time. I like to learn and master each character that interests me and I want to make them look good while doing that. That's not a crime.

It's not a crime, it's not impossible, and it doesn't take two and a half years to gather the steel to gear up all of the characters.

The cosmetics on the other hand.... That's where most of the expense lies.

And that's okay, because it's just cosmetics and has no real effect on gameplay-- making it a total non-issue. Cosmetics are luxury items.


The problem is that Ubi's business model makes For Honor look like a Free-to-Play game, except that it isn't. It's a game we spent $60 on. We shouldn't be subjected to such a model. You can disagree and argue it, but there's a reason that F2P is done the way it is. It needs to be that way to make money because they developed a game for free.

We'll be subjected to whatever model they want to subject us to, because we paid $60 for them to subject us to a model of their choosing.

AzureSky.
03-26-2017, 10:37 PM
Yeah they will just cost 10000 steel + your liver :D.

Ubisoft is great right?

Eirmund
03-26-2017, 10:42 PM
-You're arguing semantics. I still paid for the copy and the content included with the disc. You don't buy a movie and have the last 15 minutes of it blocked off so that they can charge you for it later.

-Yeah, and that drive to make money is balanced by how much people are willing to pay for something. What a crazy concept that companies are out to make money and the consumers are out to get their product for as cheap as possible. Golly. And we didn't give them our money just so they could have it. Weak argument, bruh, weak.

-Here's a crazy thought: Maybe they should only include $60 worth of content on their disc then, hm?????? Don't pack more content into it and then find it crazy that people don't want to pay more for something they've already paid for. Absolutely crazy. And no, they wouldn't "lose" money, they wouldn't gain money, there's a difference. If they're that concerned about it then they shouldn't include it. Release it later as additional content.

-Clearly not reading what I wrote because I didn't even mentioning "gearing" up characters. I was talking about making them "look good" hence cosmetics. And yes it does, at least a fraction of that. Someone figured out that if you wanted all the content in the game you would either have to spend over $700 or grind for 2.5 years to obtain it all. That means if I want a few different looks on several characters it will take at least a fraction of that amount and even that is still a long time for any game, especially one that is losing it's player base rapidly.

-Way to be short-sighted. Yeah, no duh, we can't do something about the game we already paid for, but we can do something future games they produce. If they don't sell because we won't buy due to their model then they're out of luck.

Anyways, i'm not arguing this any further with you. You clearly have your opinion and I have mine, i'm leaving it at that. Ciao.

PS: You're also the only one on this thread that shares your opinion, should tell you something. Have a nice day.

RighteousHooo
03-26-2017, 10:55 PM
yeah man

i remember when i first got skyrim i was absolutely floored that i spent $60 and still had to grind for daedric equipment

can you believe i actually had to quest for some of the artifacts?

its ridiculous

i spent $60 on that disc

that disc that contained all of the content, yet i couldnt access it

the gaming industry is sinking to new lows these days i swear

The most ridiculous comment I have ever seen, and not remotely the same thing. The questing and earning of gear in an RPG is designed that way to extend your playtime. The prices of the content in this game and the time needed to essentially unlock for all the classes you would like to play is obscene. The only reason is designed that way is to entice you to buy steel, now none of us should have to buy steel..you know why? Because I already paid $100 for this game I should have access to the content on the ******* disc. In a day and age where are games are further picked apart and sold back to us even though we've already paid for it, just astounds me that there are consumers who actually defend these practices.

CitizenPuddi
03-26-2017, 10:59 PM
Differing opinions, clearly.

I paid to crack digital skulls, which I think was the only thing that was promised.

You paid to play dress-up, which I'm not sure was even advertised as a feature. Maybe I missed it.

Also, on top of that, apparently I wasn't just arguing semantics because you still think "I already paid for this content I want it now!".

You didn't pay for the content. You don't own it. It's clearly stated in the EULA that you agreed to. 1.1

Ubisoft said "Gimme $60 bucks and you can shield bash the piss out of this guy."

You said, "Okay sure." and then later come back asking "Well where's the cosmetics I paid for?"

Whether or not people on the internet agree with me is not relevant, the above scenario doesn't make much sense.

CitizenPuddi
03-26-2017, 11:04 PM
The most ridiculous comment I have ever seen, and not remotely the same thing. The questing and earning of gear in an RPG is designed that way to extend your playtime. The prices of the content in this game and the time needed to essentially unlock for all the classes you would like to play is obscene. The only reason is designed that way is to entice you to buy steel, now none of us should have to buy steel..you know why? Because I already paid $100 for this game I should have access to the content on the ******* disc. In a day and age where are games are further picked apart and sold back to us even though we've already paid for it, just astounds me that there are consumers who actually defend these practices.

Okay, yeah. The Skyrim comparison. I get it.

I was just goofing on the guy with that one, gimme a break.

Refer to the EULA, you didn't buy the content on the disc. I know it seems unfair, but it is what it is-- and you should've known at least as much before giving them money.

And don't mistake me as someone defending the practices. I personally think they're silly.

However, I'm aware of them, and I'm not going to pretend like it's some grand surprise that I never could have forseen when stuff like this happens. It's happened before, and it's always going to happen.

Eirmund
03-26-2017, 11:29 PM
Differing opinions, clearly.

I paid to crack digital skulls, which I think was the only thing that was promised.

You paid to play dress-up, which I'm not sure was even advertised as a feature. Maybe I missed it.

Also, on top of that, apparently I wasn't just arguing semantics because you still think "I already paid for this content I want it now!".

You didn't pay for the content. You don't own it. It's clearly stated in the EULA that you agreed to. 1.1

Ubisoft said "Gimme $60 bucks and you can shield bash the piss out of this guy."

You said, "Okay sure." and then later come back asking "Well where's the cosmetics I paid for?"

Whether or not people on the internet agree with me is not relevant, the above scenario doesn't make much sense.

Dude, you're some kind of special. Your scenario isn't even remotely freakin' correct, it's so basic that it's just plain dumb. Besides which, is incorrect. Ubisoft actually did stress several times that there would be tons of CUSTOMIZATION aka cosmetics. So yeah, they did promise it.

You're arguing semantics because your point is that I don't own the rights to market, produce, alter or trademark For Honor content. Which is correct. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the copy of the game I paid for and the content included inside of that disc. I do own that. Just like if I bought a Music CD, I own all the songs inside of it. If I buy a movie, I own the entire length of that movie. If I bought a Tax software, I own every tool inside of it to help me do my taxes. Are you getting it yet?

I would argue that. I told you i'm not arguing with you and you continue to persist, so you must care about what I have to say. If you truly don't, then prove it and buzz off.

CitizenPuddi
03-27-2017, 12:35 AM
Dude, you're some kind of special. Your scenario isn't even remotely freakin' correct, it's so basic that it's just plain dumb. Besides which, is incorrect. Ubisoft actually did stress several times that there would be tons of CUSTOMIZATION aka cosmetics. So yeah, they did promise it.

You're arguing semantics because your point is that I don't own the rights to market, produce, alter or trademark For Honor content. Which is correct. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the copy of the game I paid for and the content included inside of that disc. I do own that. Just like if I bought a Music CD, I own all the songs inside of it. If I buy a movie, I own the entire length of that movie. If I bought a Tax software, I own every tool inside of it to help me do my taxes. Are you getting it yet?

I would argue that. I told you i'm not arguing with you and you continue to persist, so you must care about what I have to say. If you truly don't, then prove it and buzz off.

Alright, lemme put it to you this way, and I'll try to not be so antagonizing-- which I apologize for. Nasty habit, that.

What did you pay for?

A) A disc containing all of the files that make up For Honor, files that you can't modify or do anything at all with unless Ubisoft says you can. No patches that makes the game functional. No multiplayer. Just a disc full of files.

or

B) A licensing agreement with Ubisoft that allows you to utilize those files and actually play the game.

If you paid for "A", then congratulations, you own the game.

If you paid for "B", then you don't own the game, you own the right to play it.

That's how licensing works.

Tax software? That's usually a licensing agreement as well. That's why stuff like that is often hidden behind serial keys.

If you buy Windows, you have a disc containing all of the files that make up the operating system. Good luck legally using it in any meaningful way if you lose the serial key before installation.

That's pretty much what I'm trying to get across on that front-- it's not semantics, that's literally how it works, and it's different from actual ownership.

Music and movies aren't exactly fair comparisons, as they typically aren't bound to end user license agreements.

MrkiMethodius
03-27-2017, 05:43 AM
Let me stop you right there.

Maybe you're new to gaming legalese, but...

You don't own For Honor.

You didn't buy any of the content.

You merely paid for the right to use it.

The software is licensed to you.



Yes.

I know it's crazy, but this is what companies and businesses tend to strive for. They didn't make this game out of the goodness of their heart, they want money.



Money. They would lose potential money. Which is what they, as a company, want to make. That's the sole purpose of For Honor existing. To make Ubisoft money. That's how pretty much all game developers work.




It's not a crime, it's not impossible, and it doesn't take two and a half years to gather the steel to gear up all of the characters.

The cosmetics on the other hand.... That's where most of the expense lies.

And that's okay, because it's just cosmetics and has no real effect on gameplay-- making it a total non-issue. Cosmetics are luxury items.



We'll be subjected to whatever model they want to subject us to, because we paid $60 for them to subject us to a model of their choosing.

http://i.imgur.com/PRZaaeC.jpg