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View Full Version : Block speed and hero range



CandleInTheDark
03-24-2017, 05:58 PM
I am reading a lot of complaints about the fact that blocking from left to right against the quicker classes is impossible right now, from complaints that quicker classes are overpowered because of it to suggestions that everyone start in neutral which hey, I can do because I have assassin levels and still instinctively block every attack in a chain but it took longer to learn than regular blocks. The common theme, or it seems this way to me at least, is that people are complaining because a character that excels in short range combat is doing better than them at short range combat.

Before we get into any he is defending his main comments, I have spent more time in single player(I wanted the engravings, I am shallow) than multiplayer recently, I have 26 levels in peacekeeper, 19 in nobushi and 15-20 scattered around conqueror, warden, valkyrie and i think one in berserker, unless I go on a tear with any character then the current plan is I will pick a main when I have had a look at the first two new characters to drop, so I have no hat in the ring for this. It also means, by the by, that I am only rep one and haven't been against top tier players so your mileage may vary on this.

My thought on it pretty much runs down to using the tools that you are given. When I played peacekeeper, yeah I used my speed, I dodged, I deflected, I tried not to light attack spam though if someone was staying in my range then damn right I am going to use the fact that my light attack is quicker than the heavy they are trying to start a chain with.When I played nobushi, hell no do I want a peacekeeper in my face, or anything with a shorter range than me (which is everyone but conqueror with their charged attack, at least according to Aarpian who took part in the hero school series with conqueror), my first priority wasn't a kick or a light, it was getting the heck out of dodge and resetting the game to the point I can try to punish any attempts to close the range. I don't see the fact that my nobushi couldn't switch from left to right quicker than the peacekeeper could as a bug, the fact is that my hero was using a long range weapon that takes considerably more to switch grips and stances on than a short sword and a dagger, what I did have, unless I got backed into a corner, were tools to put the fight back into the range I wanted it at. I remember reading a Terry Pratchett book where someone picked up a spear as a weapon because the important thing about it was that in combat the other guy was all the way over there, I want to keep people wherever the end of my weapon is where their quick daggers can't hurt me in a one two swipe.

As a peacekeeper, I know that I rule the short range conflict, as a nobushi and to a degree as the warden (top light excepting), I don't expect to out peacekeeper the peacekeeper at the range of a dagger, I have a longer weapon for a reason. There are issues, I think that light attack spam from any range (most of my levels are in the respective queens of light attack spam in long and short range in low level play) is something that needs to be addressed without adding to the defensive meta that people are complaining about and heavy attacks need to be more viable, I don't know how to do this but I don't think giving people out of their comfortable range a defence to match the speed of attack of the close quarter combat specialist is the answer because you are then depriving the shorter range characters of an advantage at the range that they are supposed to be superior in.

Anyhow just my thoughts on it, but what I will say is this isn't dynasty warriors where the weapon only really affects the type of action you have, it is a game where different characters have different kits that make them stronger in some areas and weaker in others and that is a more realistic take on it in my view.

Prophit618
03-24-2017, 07:08 PM
Not enough rage and calling for nerfs. You clearly don't belong here making well-reasoned arguments about the game.

The_B0G_
03-24-2017, 07:31 PM
In my opinion the side dodge is too powerful a tool to use distance as a viable option against faster classes, I main an LB and I see my attacks pass through people all of the time when they side dodge into it.

Also with LB if you want to widen the gap between you an an enemy you need to roll away or the player can just stick right with you, and that takes a lot of stamina to do.

secrecy274
03-24-2017, 07:48 PM
My main problem with the light attack spam from the Peacekeeper is that I simple can't dodge out of it, she hits me once, I dodge, her second strike misses, yet the third hits me again, she don't even have to slow down.

CandleInTheDark
03-24-2017, 07:57 PM
Not enough rage and calling for nerfs. You clearly don't belong here making well-reasoned arguments about the game.

When you shout, all you add is more noise ;)

And as to the other comments, I do agree that light attack spam and that dashes outstrip some characters' ability to make more distance (when the main means of making distance is guardbreak good luck getting that in against someone spamming) are problems, and light attack spam is too easy to get into, I went from peacekeeper to nobushi and it was all oh hey this is pretty normal until several players and the bots at realistic difficulty in single player shut me down. I don't particularly know how to fix that without making it more defensive, it was just this one point about block speed that I kind of had an opinion on.

Pope138
03-24-2017, 10:38 PM
In my opinion the side dodge is too powerful a tool to use distance as a viable option against faster classes, I main an LB and I see my attacks pass through people all of the time when they side dodge into it.



I main a warlord, so it might be completely different with an LB, but how are your feints? Canceling a heavy into a guardbreak works quite well for my slow warlord when up against peacekeepers and assassins.

Moondyne_MC
03-25-2017, 01:37 AM
While I can understand that range can be a great trade off for speed, the fact of the matter is in the majority of situations speed trumps range, especially when you have gap closer moves quicker than the long range opponents light attacks. Speaking as a Nobushi, keeping an enemy at range is great and all, but it pretty much leaves you back at square one as there's very little you can do to attack a PK without them simply dodging around you from that range.