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View Full Version : Can we put a stop to the unblockable spam?



Bucketfridge
03-21-2017, 11:14 PM
Of recently I feel like the only way players know how to play their characters is to spam their unblockables combos or also know as the "vortex". Its really obnoxious. This is supposed to be a fighting game of counters, reactions and offense,, not spam my combo. I feel the the most popular classes all have one. Warden shoulder charge into double lights, Conq shield charge into side heavy, Valk KD to overhead heavy, Lawbringer shove into guard break, Warlord headbutt into stab. Nobushi Kick into overhead.I understand they all have counters, but its not fun to play against, and frankly takes no skill.

These moves are great by themselves, but when all players do is spam the combo they're rewarded for it, with little to no drawbacks. If these moves are used in addition to others to create openings, like intended they work great. I feel there should be some sort of stam penalty for using the same moveset more than twice in a row. I think everyone has been on the receiving end of one of these combos, and after it happens you don't feel like you were outmatched, you are just left with a bitter taste in your mouth.

I actually think this is the one of the biggest contributors to people leaving matches mid game. If I get beat because I got outplayed, I take it and learn from it. But when I lose to some spamming, it makes for a terrible experience. People im sure some will say "get gud" or "learn to dodge" and thats fine, I can usually handle it most the time. But for example in 4v4s when you're fighting more than 1 person, its incredibly hard to get out of said combos or fight effectively. And there is on occasion where you do get caught in the combo and just lose because of it.

I would really like to see some kind of penalty to spamming unblockables. Whether it be increased stam costs or a delay in speed after the first or something. I dont want the game to devolve into which player can land their combo first. Even people at high level play spam the combos. I think it would also alleviate some of the "balance" issues some players feel is going on. If people actually had to play their class as opposed to memorizing one set of moves. If someone has an arguement for why this is good for the game, I would love to hear. But I think it needs to be addressed in some fashion.

MrForz
03-21-2017, 11:50 PM
People "spam" unblockables to apply pressure and eventually succeed as an opener. Every hit that isn't an ultra-fast light attack is bound to get parried and every natural attempt at GBing will get countered. The faster light attacks often come from only one direction and thus are immediatly matched in stance. Those unblockables are more or less safe moves, if the risk of being parried wasn't so freaking damn big, most of people wouldn't resort to that.

Simi_Xiamara_
03-22-2017, 12:45 AM
Only prob I have with unblockables like shield bash is that I still get hit even if I step back

cha_cha_cha-2.0
03-22-2017, 12:48 AM
I agree. As a main conqueror who rarely lost a duel because of the shield bash-light combo, I think spamming vortex is an absolutely boring mechanic, and it should either be nerfed or removed from the game.
Now I'm playing some of the weakest fighters like the berserker or Kensei, who, in my opinion, are genuinely balanced, and required sheer skill to win, (despite I lose a lot now xD)
However, (I'd like to add), mechanics rewards defense too much, and if you nerf or remove vortexs, I think you should improve some openers by, (for example), increasing light atacks speed, or improving combos unpredictability like Kense's choices after unblockable top.

PecarCZ
03-22-2017, 12:57 AM
if you want remove shield bash from game you can basic delete conqueror with it because he dont have any other attack and his light/heavy can be easy parried because with lawbringer he have slowest attack speed from all heroes.

cha_cha_cha-2.0
03-22-2017, 01:02 AM
if you want remove shield bash from game you can basic delete conqueror with it because he dont have any other attack and his light/heavy can be easy parried because with lawbringer he have slowest attack speed from all heroes.

You're completely right. That's why, in my opinion, he's the worst designed character. He totally relies on his spamming mechanic.
I think you could fix him, (after nerfing or removing his vortex), by giving him a feint mechanic. Or maybe by increaing his lights speed and giving him some unblockables.

PecarCZ
03-22-2017, 01:08 AM
His light and heavy have lowest dps in game.His heavy cannot kill enemy with 1 hp bar.He need better attack speed and dps increase + combos because shield bash is only attack what he can do.

LinkZeppeloyd
03-22-2017, 01:10 AM
Only prob I have with unblockables like shield bash is that I still get hit even if I step back

This annoys the crap out of me too. I HATE it when you physically dodge a move... so the enemy model just magically warps to wherever you are. Dodging back absolutely should avoid ublockables/guard breaks. This would help a great deal in the current GB/CGB state of affairs.

Also, anyone who does not think spamming ublockable shoulder charges needs to be fixed are probably people who solely do this. There needs to a freaking COOL DOWN on these moves. About half of duels just turn into the other player looping their ublock/light combo. Pointless to play at that point, so I drop out. Some people seem to legitimately not be able to differentiate between USING a move and SPAMMING it. The reason is... without this crutch, they can't fight. It's that simple.

Bucketfridge
03-22-2017, 01:44 AM
if you want remove shield bash from game you can basic delete conqueror with it because he dont have any other attack and his light/heavy can be easy parried because with lawbringer he have slowest attack speed from all heroes.

That shouldnt be a mechanic, thats just poor design. Spamming shouldnt be the only way to win. The unblockables are meant to be a tool, not the only source of play.

LinkZeppeloyd
03-22-2017, 01:46 AM
That shouldnt be a mechanic, thats just poor design. If a character cant win outside of spamming, then thats a design flaw, Spamming shouldnt help any character win, the unblockables are meant to be a tool, not the only source of play.

Exactly, it's not that we want the Conqueror nerfed, ALL characters that have this stupid mechanic should have it removed. And then buff them elsewhere to make up for it. It's silly that Conq has to rely on unblock spam to win a fight. Give him some more tools that don't involve the exact same move over and over and over and over and over and over.

cha_cha_cha-2.0
03-22-2017, 01:58 AM
Ummmm dodge?

I call them disable moves. Since their differ from unblockables.

As for Conq....it's his only reliable way to start offense on a heavily influenced defensive character. Infinite chains don't last very long and heavies grant alot of punishment if parried>GB.

I'm still surrised people are having this much trouble STILL with dodging conq shield bashes after a heavy. Like.......There's 3 things he can do after a heavy.

Throw another heavy
Shield Bash
GB

All options can be negated by simply rolling.
Dodge beats shield bash
parries beats the heavy
and lights/teching beats GB

So....again what's so bad about this?

We're talking about guaranteed attacks. The shield bash-light. Not his heavy-bash.
The warden 50/50's. The Shugo's 50/50's, and so on.
And we're not complaining because they are hard to read by the way, we're saying it's a poor's game mechanich to create a character who mainly relies on one move to win.

TCTF_SWAT
03-22-2017, 02:04 AM
You know what, forget I said anything. I don't even know why I posted in the first place.

SangLong524
03-22-2017, 02:47 AM
How sad! Kids cant handle the predictably repetitive spams of unblockables that has specifically been stated that they can be parried or dodged. Oh what a broken game! It must be redesign!!!!!!
When your mentality cannot handle something. Quit, for your own good!

Bucketfridge
03-22-2017, 04:29 AM
@ledgeguard

The **** are you talking about? Did you not read what I said? I said most of the time I can get by it. Its not a mentality its a bad game mechanic. I didnt say a redesign, I said it needed tweaking. Why dont you read before you come and post nonsense because "im so good and youre all scrubs". People like you are why games dont progress and have terrible communities. FOH

Bucketfridge
03-22-2017, 04:33 AM
@TCTF_Swat
Did you not read the post? I said it can be countered, but you think its good for the game? Sure some of us know what to do, but you cant balance a game around a small percentage of the game. Im sure a lot of people are disheartened to have this happen to them.

TCTF_SWAT
03-22-2017, 07:23 AM
That's their problem. So what? The devs should just dumb down the game because the masses are like sheep and can't press some buttons or think 2 steps ahead? Gimme a break. If that's the case then gaming is gona be hilarious in the later years if devs don't stand their ground.

Bucketfridge
03-22-2017, 07:26 AM
That's their problem. So what? The devs should just dumb down the game because the masses are like sheep and can't press some buttons or think 2 steps ahead? Gimme a break. If that's the case then gaming is gona be hilarious in the later years if devs don't stand their ground.

So you cater to the top end of your player base? Thats not how games work. People at every tier of skill get caught by it at some point, no one can say they havent. Im not saying dumb down the game, but even when people at the highest level of play abuse it, then its not just "get good scrubs".

B.00n
03-22-2017, 07:49 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, about warden's votex, if he started it without light atk, u can light atk to stop it, if he cancel it into gb, then cgb. If he started votex with a light atk, only those light atks after the 1st shoulder charge is unblockable, the next one is not, and you can light atk to stop the 2nd ones, if he cancels into gb, then u cgb... So warden's votex isnot uncounterable, afterall it is reaction based as u wanted, isn't it?

SangLong524
03-22-2017, 07:53 AM
So you cater to the top end of your player base? Thats not how games work. People at every tier of skill get caught by it at some point, no one can say they havent. Im not saying dumb down the game, but even when people at the highest level of play abuse it, then its not just "get good scrubs".
ahem, of course i didn't read your whole rant. i'm not dumb.
if it is legit and within the boundary of the game mechanic, overusing (abuse is an overused term scrubs like to abuse:p) or the lack of it is each and everybody's call, including u in case u don't know. As long as all the options are available, it's MY DECISION to use, overuse or under-use. I don't support changing the rule, or "tweaking" halfway just because some ***** having a hissy fit over somebody's totally legit behaviors. Or people having play for a long time like top tier players (let's not get into gear issue and afk epidemic) has to dumb themselves down for scrubs' sake. NO! Nobody owes anyone anything, particularly fellow players.
DEAL WITH IT!
Imposing something to discourage...hmm... maybe, I would have to see for myself.
GIT GUD! :p
PS: I see people have been abusing parry mechanic, parry all 4 opponents at once. It's totally unrealistic and unfair! NERF PARRY NOW! :mad:

Xb1MasterNoctis
03-22-2017, 08:10 AM
Unblockable guard break shouldn't be a thing needs to be removed or cool down on it don't say get out of the way it's easy key board warriors unblockable guard break then hit is a stun then repeat


Everyone who says get good i bet if they took that out of the game you would be really bad at the game without it.

SangLong524
03-22-2017, 08:38 AM
Unblockable guard break shouldn't be a thing needs to be removed or cool down on it don't say get out of the way it's easy key board warriors unblockable guard break then hit is a stun then repeat


Everyone who says get good i bet if they took that out of the game you would be really bad at the game without it.

My apology for using what was given. Unblockables are intended to break through block, not parry, ok! and again, most unblockables can be parried. Do the tutorials. scrubs are acting just like the cash cows they have been angsty about. Cows don't move, they are as good as being spoon fed, sans the spoon. When the time comes, they are milked. Like Now.
Removing unblockables would cause massive overhaul. They aren't really as rewarding as their name implies. Unblockables are more of a blocking turtle breaker, or Stupid Killer, rather than having a huge impact in a serious fight between 2 non-scrub players. Only an idiot to throw out an unblockables without some sort of setting up the stage

Xb1MasterNoctis
03-22-2017, 08:48 AM
My apology for using what was given. Unblockables are intended to break through block, not parry, ok! and again, most unblockables can be parried. Do the tutorials. scrubs are acting just like the cash cows they have been angsty about. Cows don't move, they are as good as being spoon fed, sans the spoon. When the time comes, they are milked. Like Now.
Removing unblockables would cause massive overhaul. They aren't really as rewarding as their name implies. Unblockables are more of a blocking turtle breaker, or Stupid Killer, rather than having a huge impact in a serious fight between 2 non-scrub players. Only an idiot to throw out an unblockables without some sort of setting up the stage

Unblockable guard break can't be parried if you don't get out way you get stuck in loop you can't get out of because you get stunned non stop.

SangLong524
03-22-2017, 08:58 AM
Unblockable guard break can't be parried if you don't get out way you get stuck in loop you can't get out of because you get stunned non stop.
Unblockable guard break.... unblockable guard break. Are u, by chance, refering to guard breaking? There is no way to to block guard breaking, either dodge, counter or hit before the GB come into contact. Or set up the conditions that null GB like some gentlemen in this forum have made.
I have never heard of "unblockable guard break". Weird!

Xb1MasterNoctis
03-22-2017, 09:09 AM
Unblockable guard break.... unblockable guard break. Are u, by chance, refering to guard breaking? There is no way to to block guard breaking, either dodge, counter or hit before the GB come into contact. Or set up the conditions that null GB like some gentlemen in this forum have made.
I have never heard of "unblockable guard break". Weird!

You for real you just acting dumb.

SangLong524
03-22-2017, 09:17 AM
You for real you just acting dumb.
No. u are. There is no unblockable guardbreak. Because all guardbreak is already unguardable as they should be. Its in the f-ing tutorial. So go do tutorials.
*****! It's just the same thing, different words.

Xb1MasterNoctis
03-22-2017, 09:45 AM
No. u are. There is no unblockable guardbreak. Because all guardbreak is already unguardable as they should be. Its in the f-ing tutorial. So go do tutorials.
*****! It's just the same thing, different words.

When i see it i'lll video it i'll message you.

SangLong524
03-22-2017, 09:51 AM
When i see it i'lll video it i'll message you.
Good. that is much better than unintelligent barking. Do present some proofs of this "Unblockable guard break".