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corazondedelfin
03-10-2017, 03:55 PM
This thread will be about enumerating the problems that an Orochi should not have so he becomes what was planned , AN AGRESSIVE AGILE COUNTERATTACKER SAMURAI, and COMPETITIVE with the same posibilities as the good characters and equal to them:


Patch the non-blocking and reaction times against light spam attack coming from Berserker, Peacekeeper...
-
Make the dodge non-guarbreakable, it doesnt make any sense to be GB'ed if you are turning around the body of your enemy to attack in a non covered area! You are supposed to be an agile asian hardtrained warrior so he will not put his hands on you while you do such a move!
-
Add timing for the dodge to get a deflect, as right now deflects are worth NOTHING compared to parries and an orochi is supposed to base his gameplays in the deflect, so make the time to deflect bigger as its high risk dodging against the attack of your enemy knowing that you will get barely nothing in return. The timing needs to increase!
-
Deflect+light attack does barely no damage and its a super risky move. Deflect+heavyattack its impossible to hit anyone with it and its supposed to be the BEST OROCHI SUPER RISKY DEFINITIVE ATTACK: HURRICANE BLAST. And you will NEVER EVER EVER hit anyone that knows the basics of this videogame with it, its absolutely ridiculous that no Orochis use his best attack! For gods sake Im the only one I know that uses all the orochis moves including this one and you always fail with this one while you take SO MUCH TIME to load the hit after the deflect succeeds.
-
Riptide Strike is too too much risk FOR SAME REWARD THAN A NORMAL HEAVY, was that intended or its just a way to troll? I managed to become good with this attack and I do it because its cool and only for that reason, not because it hits harder or its faster than a normal heavy. Riptide Strike should do more damage and be unblockable to be actually worth of some use.
-

Now a question for you Ubisoft people that read this: Was this intended? To make orochi the coolest warrior in the game, the only real samurai, with the video that every orochi has to be worth 10 other warriors, but then your character is indeed a ****? His best attacks are HURRICANE BLAST and WIND GUST, that are risky as hell, and you can never ever do the first one and the second one is just a free light if you do it ? Hahahah Nobody uses HURRICANE BLAST, WIND GUST (this one barely but its used) or RIPTIDE STRIKE that I know or have seen, and I saw many many orochis to learn the best I could from every single one of them, which makes me literally being the only person I know that uses these moves... And I risk myself just to look cool, cause ALL OF THESE PROBLEMS make OROCHI non-competitive at medium-high level of gameplay. :mad:


Thank you for reading, hope you fix the orochi soon. I just tried to help you with the task, hope you understand my english as It's not perfect.

Thanks everyone for reading! :)

corazondedelfin
03-10-2017, 04:26 PM
Thank you Kling for trying to add your opinion, but I must say that what I wrote here are facts, not opinion. Everything I said here has to be done to put in equal circunstances the orochi with the other good characters and fit the description about "agile counterattacker" so orochi base his gameplay in agility and counterattacks, and he has none of these right now :(

If they do exactly what I said, orochi will be fixed. And believe me Im the best agressive orochi you will see (not from all the orochis, but from the agressive ones you can bet on that). I want to be able to do a damn HURRICANE BLAST whenever I see a chance, as other characters uses their favourite attacks all the time.

Alchemist..
03-10-2017, 04:37 PM
for sure prof developers will listen random guy from forum. i think they know better how fix thier own game, its silly that some peoples from forum try to teach something people extremly educated and experienced in what they are doing.

corazondedelfin
03-10-2017, 04:41 PM
for sure prof developers will listen random guy from forum. i think they know better how fix thier own game, its silly that some peoples from forum try to teach something people extremly educated and experienced in what they are doing.

Then say a random guy that has been in his rankings of best players in assassins creed multiplayer and a guy that was Battlefield 2 EU Clan Champion long long ago...

Clever people listen to clever ideas and to clever solutions. But I really dont know why are you writing here if you dont want to help to fix the orochi with your comments...

Kharneth88
03-10-2017, 04:41 PM
thank you kling for trying to add your opinion, but i must say that what i wrote here are facts, not opinion. Everything i said here has to be done to put in equal circunstances the orochi with the other good characters and fit the description about "agile counterattacker" so orochi base his gameplay in agility and counterattacks, and he has none of these right now :(

if they do exactly what i said, orochi will be fixed. And believe me im the best agressive orochi you will see (not from all the orochis, but from the agressive ones you can bet on that). I want to be able to do a damn hurricane blast whenever i see a chance, as other characters uses their favourite attacks all the time.

hahahhaahahahhhh

corazondedelfin
03-10-2017, 04:53 PM
hahahhaahahahhhh

Nice argument and better opinion.


hahahahaha x 2

Ps...

Oni-Nikuya
03-10-2017, 05:54 PM
Dodge is fine, you're not gonna get guardbroken unless you got feinted or you timed your dodge wrong.

Hitokiri_Xero
03-10-2017, 06:12 PM
To make orochi the coolest warrior in the game, the only real samurai

You're wrong. Samurai used various weapons such as the Nodachi, Yari and the Yumi longbow. So please, don't try to say Orochi is the only real Samurai when it's just not true.

Cipher_73
03-10-2017, 06:33 PM
for sure prof developers will listen random guy from forum. i think they know better how fix thier own game, its silly that some peoples from forum try to teach something people extremly educated and experienced in what they are doing.

The devs are using our opinions to help them understand how the game is working/not working. They only have soo many resources/testers to figure out all the complex balancing issues. But the community is large and can feed a lot of data.

They are listening.

SAVAGE_CABBAGE1
03-10-2017, 07:26 PM
Thank you Kling for trying to add your opinion, but I must say that what I wrote here are facts, not opinion. Everything I said here has to be done to put in equal circunstances the orochi with the other good characters and fit the description about "agile counterattacker" so orochi base his gameplay in agility and counterattacks, and he has none of these right now :(

If they do exactly what I said, orochi will be fixed. And believe me Im the best agressive orochi you will see (not from all the orochis, but from the agressive ones you can bet on that). I want to be able to do a damn HURRICANE BLAST whenever I see a chance, as other characters uses their favourite attacks all the time.

They are not facts. I have one qualm with this, GB on dodge is the counter to a dodge, otherwise every assassin would be unpunshiable dodge spammer.

whovie
03-10-2017, 07:48 PM
Patch the non-blocking and reaction times against light spam attack coming from Berserker, Peacekeeper...


Why do you think this is just an issue for the orochi and not the other assassins? I main the zerk but enjoy all the assassins and this is a problem with all of them. The orochi creates these problems for the other assassins as well. It's not a character bug its a network bug. With the speed of the assassin classes almost any network issue will open up everyone to light attack spam. Orochi can spam attacks and are given actual guaranteed 2nd light making their spam even more punishing by getting two hits for one. Deflect is a weak option for all assassins. Sure the zerk get a free gb but can only damage you with it if they throw you into a wall. Orochi gets a free top heavy out of a gb which no other assassin can do, imagine the fallout if the zerk got a free top heavy from a gb.

I don't think buffs on this stuff should be handed out till the network issues are resolved. Not saying buff shouldn't happen in the future. Just that right now other things factor into your results more than character balance does and they need to be addressed before balancing can accurately take place.

Alchemist..
03-11-2017, 01:05 AM
The devs are using our opinions to help them understand how the game is working/not working. They only have soo many resources/testers to figure out all the complex balancing issues. But the community is large and can feed a lot of data.

They are listening.

yes they listening the problems but not listening how they should fix such a technical things. our knowlage is one character, mostly not even played in highest lvl, they have data from all players, characters, all game modes, maybe even efficiency of every move. and balancing so many variables when when all need to work in every game mode, for all characters with gear stats and without i not an easy task even for such a nerds as programmers. so its very difficult math not "add this, remove that". trying to teach them how to do it is slightly out of place (idk its correct traanslation from my language ;p)

ArcheDemonm
03-11-2017, 01:31 AM
Speed increase on side lights(to top lights 15(30)fm) + make hurricane blast uninterruptable and a bit faster(to make it into 50\50 gb mixup).

Bum, orochi fixed. Maybe some chain openers on riptide strike while we are at it

djshade94
03-11-2017, 01:32 AM
Jesus about half of you are trying to correct this guy and the other half are completely off point or opinionated.
The original poster here is CORRECT!!
The orochis dodge does need to be fixed. And I'm saying this based on the games mechanics. Dodges as a whole should not be able to be negated by a Guard break.
Instead a guard break should be used after the dodge is finished. NOT WHILE THE OPONTENT IS IN MOTION.
Second whether this guy thinks he's the best or not doesn't matter.
Anyone who Main's an Orchid since day one knows that he is not even at the same level as the other assassin class characters.
Which is stupid by itself.
Now if you add the way people are breaking the tank class characters?? The orochi NEEDS to be fixed.

PepsiBeastin
03-11-2017, 01:35 AM
The main problems I've noticed are

-Orochi seems to be the only hero that gets guard broken mid-dodge

-Deflect is too unpredictable to use reliably

-Hurricane blast is useless

ArcheDemonm
03-11-2017, 01:55 AM
-Orochi seems to be the only hero that gets guard broken mid-dodge


every single one of characters gets guardbroken inside the dodge before their attack(if there is any) starts, including shieldbashing conqs, dashing wardens,all dash attackers, etc. Thats feature made specifically to counter dodges. You have teleporting aim assist for guardbreaking a dodging character which allows oyu to surpass you gb range.

LordEythir
03-11-2017, 06:16 AM
This thread will be about enumerating the problems that an Orochi should not have so he becomes what was planned , AN AGRESSIVE AGILE COUNTERATTACKER SAMURAI, and COMPETITIVE with the same posibilities as the good characters and equal to them:


Patch the non-blocking and reaction times against light spam attack coming from Berserker, Peacekeeper...
-
Make the dodge non-guarbreakable, it doesnt make any sense to be GB'ed if you are turning around the body of your enemy to attack in a non covered area! You are supposed to be an agile asian hardtrained warrior so he will not put his hands on you while you do such a move!
-
Add timing for the dodge to get a deflect, as right now deflects are worth NOTHING compared to parries and an orochi is supposed to base his gameplays in the deflect, so make the time to deflect bigger as its high risk dodging against the attack of your enemy knowing that you will get barely nothing in return. The timing needs to increase!
-
Deflect+light attack does barely no damage and its a super risky move. Deflect+heavyattack its impossible to hit anyone with it and its supposed to be the BEST OROCHI SUPER RISKY DEFINITIVE ATTACK: HURRICANE BLAST. And you will NEVER EVER EVER hit anyone that knows the basics of this videogame with it, its absolutely ridiculous that no Orochis use his best attack! For gods sake Im the only one I know that uses all the orochis moves including this one and you always fail with this one while you take SO MUCH TIME to load the hit after the deflect succeeds.
-
Riptide Strike is too too much risk FOR SAME REWARD THAN A NORMAL HEAVY, was that intended or its just a way to troll? I managed to become good with this attack and I do it because its cool and only for that reason, not because it hits harder or its faster than a normal heavy
-

Now a question for you Ubisoft people that read this: Was this intended? To make orochi the coolest warrior in the game, the only real samurai, with the video that every orochi has to be worth 10 other warriors, but then your character is indeed a ****? His best attacks are HURRICANE BLAST and WIND GUST, that are risky as hell, and you can never ever do the first one and the second one is just a free light if you do it ? Hahahah Nobody uses HURRICANE BLAST, WIND GUST (this one barely but its used) or RIPTIDE STRIKE that I know or have seen, and I saw many many orochis to learn the best I could from every single one of them, which makes me literally being the only person I know that uses these moves... And I risk myself just to look cool, cause ALL OF THESE PROBLEMS make OROCHI non-competitive at medium-high level of gameplay. :mad:


Thank you for reading, hope you fix the orochi soon. I just tried to help you with the task, hope you understand my english as It's not perfect.

Thanks everyone for reading! :)

THIS DUDE IS 100% right. The only people complaining about getting killed by orochi are flat out bad, any good player usually has no problem dominating orochis due to their predictability. Orochi is a noob stomper yes, a top tier competitive character, he is not. I am very good with the Orochi, matter a fact he is my favorite character, .I can likely whoop yer asses with him.. However it saddened me to find out I was actually much better with the VALK,LB,WARLORD,CONQ,WARDEN,NOBUSHI,PK,BERSERKER.. ...why? Because they are better characters, thats all there is too it. You naysayers are just the ones who have had your feelings by Orochi's and fail to realize how easily countered they are.

DISCLAIMER: Never did I state it is impossible for an orochi player of a certain caliber to be competitive.

Mid_Evil
03-11-2017, 07:27 AM
Oh give me a break. If you are unable to lightspam your way through the game with an OROCHI you should just quit now.

corazondedelfin
03-12-2017, 06:12 PM
Oh give me a break. If you are unable to lightspam your way through the game with an OROCHI you should just quit now.

I will never lightspam, Im a damn samurai, I am going to play with honor! Im not a damn spammer. And also, what I did here is helping the developers to fix the orochi's problems, and Im sure one day they will listen to this.

corazondedelfin
03-12-2017, 06:17 PM
THIS DUDE IS 100% right. The only people complaining about getting killed by orochi are flat out bad, any good player usually has no problem dominating orochis due to their predictability. Orochi is a noob stomper yes, a top tier competitive character, he is not. I am very good with the Orochi, matter a fact he is my favorite character, .I can likely whoop yer asses with him.. However it saddened me to find out I was actually much better with the VALK,LB,WARLORD,CONQ,WARDEN,NOBUSHI,PK,BERSERKER.. ...why? Because they are better characters, thats all there is too it. You naysayers are just the ones who have had your feelings by Orochi's and fail to realize how easily countered they are.

DISCLAIMER: Never did I state it is impossible for an orochi player of a certain caliber to be competitive.


Jesus about half of you are trying to correct this guy and the other half are completely off point or opinionated.
The original poster here is CORRECT!!
The orochis dodge does need to be fixed. And I'm saying this based on the games mechanics. Dodges as a whole should not be able to be negated by a Guard break.
Instead a guard break should be used after the dodge is finished. NOT WHILE THE OPONTENT IS IN MOTION.
Second whether this guy thinks he's the best or not doesn't matter.
Anyone who Main's an Orchid since day one knows that he is not even at the same level as the other assassin class characters.
Which is stupid by itself.
Now if you add the way people are breaking the tank class characters?? The orochi NEEDS to be fixed.

Thanks God that you both posted here. I was offline yesterday.

THANK YOU!

The_Mensan
03-12-2017, 06:26 PM
This thread will be about enumerating the problems that an Orochi should not have so he becomes what was planned , AN AGRESSIVE AGILE COUNTERATTACKER SAMURAI, and COMPETITIVE with the same posibilities as the good characters and equal to them:


Patch the non-blocking and reaction times against light spam attack coming from Berserker, Peacekeeper...
-
Make the dodge non-guarbreakable, it doesnt make any sense to be GB'ed if you are turning around the body of your enemy to attack in a non covered area! You are supposed to be an agile asian hardtrained warrior so he will not put his hands on you while you do such a move!
-
Add timing for the dodge to get a deflect, as right now deflects are worth NOTHING compared to parries and an orochi is supposed to base his gameplays in the deflect, so make the time to deflect bigger as its high risk dodging against the attack of your enemy knowing that you will get barely nothing in return. The timing needs to increase!
-
Deflect+light attack does barely no damage and its a super risky move. Deflect+heavyattack its impossible to hit anyone with it and its supposed to be the BEST OROCHI SUPER RISKY DEFINITIVE ATTACK: HURRICANE BLAST. And you will NEVER EVER EVER hit anyone that knows the basics of this videogame with it, its absolutely ridiculous that no Orochis use his best attack! For gods sake Im the only one I know that uses all the orochis moves including this one and you always fail with this one while you take SO MUCH TIME to load the hit after the deflect succeeds.
-
Riptide Strike is too too much risk FOR SAME REWARD THAN A NORMAL HEAVY, was that intended or its just a way to troll? I managed to become good with this attack and I do it because its cool and only for that reason, not because it hits harder or its faster than a normal heavy
-

Now a question for you Ubisoft people that read this: Was this intended? To make orochi the coolest warrior in the game, the only real samurai, with the video that every orochi has to be worth 10 other warriors, but then your character is indeed a ****? His best attacks are HURRICANE BLAST and WIND GUST, that are risky as hell, and you can never ever do the first one and the second one is just a free light if you do it ? Hahahah Nobody uses HURRICANE BLAST, WIND GUST (this one barely but its used) or RIPTIDE STRIKE that I know or have seen, and I saw many many orochis to learn the best I could from every single one of them, which makes me literally being the only person I know that uses these moves... And I risk myself just to look cool, cause ALL OF THESE PROBLEMS make OROCHI non-competitive at medium-high level of gameplay. :mad:


Thank you for reading, hope you fix the orochi soon. I just tried to help you with the task, hope you understand my english as It's not perfect.

Thanks everyone for reading! :)

1) That seems like an oversight. A lot of non-links becomes links against Assassins with reflective block, that's the biggest problem. I think this should be fixed.

2) This CANNOT be changed. If dodge beats GB, then Dodge will be OP period. They can add I-Frames to the very beginning of dodge, to make it stronger against light attacks, that's fine. But it should still be countered by a GB. It has to. Because otherwise, Top Level reaction players will dodge EVERYTHING and there's nothing you can do against him because he dodges everything without error.

3) That's great. Make Deflect and Dodge timing overlap so Dodge I-frames starts if you deflect too late. If you dodge slightly too late, you end up deflecting. That would be an awesome option-select. Currently, there's a timing gap, so Deflect doesn't overlap with dodge (you have to miss dodge really bad to get a deflect and vice versa).

4) If they buff point 3, they don't need to buff the damage. If they don't want to make deflect / dodge a proper option select, then buffing the punish damage on the light "could" be a decent fix to deflect. But I don't like simple damage increases, because it's a cheap fix. I rather they make it an option select.

5) Riptide is so useless... Please make it cancel-able or do a lot more damage, thanks. If you can't cancel the attack, it's almost a worse Storm Rush (yes it punishes faster, but it's SO SO SO unsafe).

corazondedelfin
03-12-2017, 06:36 PM
Thank you @Mensan for leaving your opinions and appreciating the job I took trying to help fix our cool samurai hero.

MrForz
03-12-2017, 11:25 PM
Dodges as a whole should not be able to be negated by a Guard break.

Tell me. How do you damage someone who dodges non-stop? I once met some tilted Orochi that didn't even bother attacking and just backstepped to "prove that without GB I'm nothing", if it wasn't for the timed guardbreaks I wouldn't even have touched him.


Anyone who Main's an Orchid since day one knows that he is not even at the same level as the other assassin class characters.

Indeed, he's in a fairly nice place, Zerker is laughable and PK is just beyond obnoxious to deal with which makes her a top tier character I guess.

Lionardudu
03-12-2017, 11:43 PM
Then say a random guy that has been in his rankings of best players in assassins creed multiplayer and a guy that was Battlefield 2 EU Clan Champion long long ago...

Clever people listen to clever ideas and to clever solutions. But I really dont know why are you writing here if you dont want to help to fix the orochi with your comments...

Ahahahahahahahahahha

Anyway GB counter Dodge ... and this dont have to change ..... if you dodge near a player without attacking you are in risk of GB or all assassing can just circles around without any risk and any stamina cost.

If you dont want to be GB you have to Dodge attack or just dont stay in range.

And makes perfect sense .... if u sidestep in my reach .... i can just strech my arm and you are in my hand XD

LordEythir
03-13-2017, 03:35 AM
Tell me. How do you damage someone who dodges non-stop? I once met some tilted Orochi that didn't even bother attacking and just backstepped to "prove that without GB I'm nothing", if it wasn't for the timed guardbreaks I wouldn't even have touched him.



Indeed, he's in a fairly nice place, Zerker is laughable and PK is just beyond obnoxious to deal with which makes her a top tier character I guess.

Since you think Zerker is "laughable" I would like to come over here and sit down on this bench with all your opinions. Ill be back for you in a bit, once we get this sorted out. Also left you a snickers taped underneath your seat ;D

MrForz
03-13-2017, 12:40 PM
Yeah, no. There's another thread that may or may not help with your personal issues with the Zerker.

corazondedelfin
03-13-2017, 03:34 PM
Ahahahahahahahahahha

Anyway GB counter Dodge ... and this dont have to change ..... if you dodge near a player without attacking you are in risk of GB or all assassing can just circles around without any risk and any stamina cost.

If you dont want to be GB you have to Dodge attack or just dont stay in range.

And makes perfect sense .... if u sidestep in my reach .... i can just strech my arm and you are in my hand XD

And tell me, Mr Einstein, how are you supposed to try to use your hands to catch me if you are swinging your weapon frontly trying to hit me when I reached your side and even close to your back during my dodge?

Have you ever trained in any kind of martial arts even to talk like that and laugh? If someone is doing such a move around you, you will never ever grab them IF THEY ARE A WELL TRAINED LIKE A SAMURAI WARRIOR IS SUPPOSED TO BE! Pff, teenagers these days...

corazondedelfin
03-13-2017, 03:37 PM
I agree with every statement made. The orochi has been overkilled and put to shame compared against other characters. Seriously the light attacks are as fast as a wardens heavy attack. Its sad. Something needs to change with this character especially its recovery time. Light attack speed only needs an increase not a major one. Dont make it another PK to be nerfed again. But please make the recovery time to actually work like "reflexes" and the light attack speed a good speed that isnt parried 24/7

+10000000000000000 Thumbs up & subscribbed :o

stickyfingergan
03-13-2017, 06:17 PM
You are an ignorant **** shut your face dude you are definitely not the best orochi. And I'm sure they know how to fix there own game you idiot there's a reason why your playing this game and not helping them make it so stay in your place

Danioku
03-13-2017, 06:29 PM
As he is now, Orochi is reallly no fun to play and no fun to watch as well. He requires absolutely no skill since the only save things that he can do are ZA and top light. Everyone can do it, and it requires literallly 0 skill. You can win 75% of your Duels just doing that. Poor, superficial and boring gameplay design.

ChaoseyesX33
03-13-2017, 06:51 PM
Going to drop this here as well.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wwr17AtTDFU3BZY_81axLVMKdHdNZuV0wGOb589VKgc/edit#gid=0

Pain-Seeker
03-13-2017, 07:10 PM
Iam orochi main since beta and i can say for myself that iam pretty decent with him . I absolutly agree that deflect on him needs a rework . Riptide strike is also kind of useless there are only few times iam able to pull it off w/o being punished and thats when my opponent is really predicable so i know when i can use it to my advantage . When it comes to dodges and GB i agree that gb should connect after a dodge .Not looking at this from realistic view but from games balance .When i started playing i kind of depended on dodges instead of parries and block and i got punished for it many times , so i just adjusted and stopped using it as often . If you time your dodge right theres no way to get guard broken unless you use it as intial attk or opponents feints his attk . In those 2 cases it absolutly okey for you to get guard broken. Although i would like to see change from dodging back wards and getting guardbroken . Also ppl talking abot orochi needing no skill or that you should just spam your light attks is absolutly ******** . His side lights are way to slow to spam them like PK and top light is predicable on high lvl of play . Any normal player that doesnt play assassin will alway keep his guard up or side if he knows you use zone attk way too often .

corazondedelfin
03-13-2017, 08:17 PM
Iam orochi main since beta and i can say for myself that iam pretty decent with him . I absolutly agree that deflect on him needs a rework . Riptide strike is also kind of useless there are only few times iam able to pull it off w/o being punished and thats when my opponent is really predicable so i know when i can use it to my advantage . When it comes to dodges and GB i agree that gb should connect after a dodge .Not looking at this from realistic view but from games balance .When i started playing i kind of depended on dodges instead of parries and block and i got punished for it many times , so i just adjusted and stopped using it as often . If you time your dodge right theres no way to get guard broken unless you use it as intial attk or opponents feints his attk . In those 2 cases it absolutly okey for you to get guard broken. Although i would like to see change from dodging back wards and getting guardbroken . Also ppl talking abot orochi needing no skill or that you should just spam your light attks is absolutly ******** . His side lights are way to slow to spam them like PK and top light is predicable on high lvl of play . Any normal player that doesnt play assassin will alway keep his guard up or side if he knows you use zone attk way too often .

You are damn right as hell exists. Thank you for agreeing with me in almost everything! :o

S8Canadian
03-14-2017, 06:59 PM
what about his gb heavy spam? I posted here and would love to have someone verify if it's a bug or not. http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1607426-possible-bug-Orochi-guardbreak-Pluse-hit-stun-vs-block?p=12454930#post12454930

Perhaps this other stuff could be changed but IMHO he is by no means weak.

buhahh125
03-14-2017, 08:33 PM
As he is now, Orochi is reallly no fun to play and no fun to watch as well. He requires absolutely no skill since the only save things that he can do are ZA and top light. Everyone can do it, and it requires literallly 0 skill. You can win 75% of your Duels just doing that. Poor, superficial and boring gameplay design.

0 skill? Funny because having multiple characters Rep 1 or higher and Orochi Rep 7 I can tell you that any ignorant player can make that claim in regards to most of the characters in this game one way or the other. I am willing to bet you lose more times than not to Orochi and it has you salty as hell. I won't even try to defend that cry baby comment and instead offer you a chance to back it up. If you are on PS 4, add me, and Duel me Orochi vs Orochi and since it is the easiest thing that requires no skill....PROVE IT. With that said, it is how you chain your attacks together, depending on the character you are fighting, and the style the other player uses him that will determine how "no skill" it really is. :D

As a side note, there are many times I crucify an Orochi player only because I understand that character inside and out. Now I look forward to see how you would like to rage on that. ^_^

corazondedelfin
03-15-2017, 01:44 AM
Its really sad to see my thread being ignored by Ubisoft admins in this forum, while they post in random stuff, and this thread is clearly right about what most of us think and see everyday in the orochi.

UbiJurassic
03-15-2017, 02:09 AM
Its really sad to see my thread being ignored by Ubisoft admins in this forum, while they post in random stuff, and this thread is clearly right about what most of us think and see everyday in the orochi.

Hey corazondedelfin, I saw your post to me (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1605819-Next-Patch-Rant?p=12446940&viewfull=1#post12446940) on Sunday. I appreciate you bringing the thread to my attention and know that we are looking over your suggestions. :)

twibeyslakers
03-15-2017, 08:33 AM
Hurricane and wind should apply a bleed or larger damage risk vs reward for them is way off in comparison to other assassins or valk even gets bleed on hers.

corazondedelfin
03-15-2017, 01:11 PM
Hurricane and wind should apply a bleed or larger damage risk vs reward for them is way off in comparison to other assassins or valk even gets bleed on hers.

If you ever get to do the wind one.. (super hard and rare to see in multiplayer as the window timing is so small...) But forget about doing at all the hurricane blast, its IMPOSSIBLE.

A solution has to be in many aspects improving the orochi that we discussed here, as well as giving him a real unblockable move, for example the storm one that is so easy to block.

solho
03-15-2017, 02:12 PM
I made a post similar to yours on orochi and was invaded by all the children who say "orochi its op he need nerf". i agree in everything with you he need movements rework its the most predictable and slow class in the game, the slowest samurai in history

MrForz
03-15-2017, 02:31 PM
0 skill? Funny because having multiple characters Rep 1 or higher and Orochi Rep 7 I can tell you that any ignorant player can make that claim in regards to most of the characters in this game one way or the other. I am willing to bet you lose more times than not to Orochi and it has you salty as hell. I won't even try to defend that cry baby comment and instead offer you a chance to back it up. If you are on PS 4, add me, and Duel me Orochi vs Orochi and since it is the easiest thing that requires no skill....PROVE IT. With that said, it is how you chain your attacks together, depending on the character you are fighting, and the style the other player uses him that will determine how "no skill" it really is. :D

As a side note, there are many times I crucify an Orochi player only because I understand that character inside and out. Now I look forward to see how you would like to rage on that. ^_^

You really lost it on this one, man.

Also to get back on track I still can't imagine that dodge being un-GB able will be healthy for gameplay in any way.

buhahh125
03-15-2017, 06:16 PM
You really lost it on this one, man.

Also to get back on track I still can't imagine that dodge being un-GB able will be healthy for gameplay in any way.

I can't possibly understand what was lost? The fact that anyone could find fault in any character in this game? Or the fact that anything could really require 0 skill? I think you lost how to read what the actual content was replying to. ^_^

"Quote Originally Posted by Danioku View Post

As he is now, Orochi is reallly no fun to play and no fun to watch as well. He requires absolutely no skill since the only save things that he can do are ZA and top light. Everyone can do it, and it requires literallly 0 skill. You can win 75% of your Duels just doing that. Poor, superficial and boring gameplay design."

XeroTheBigBoss
03-15-2017, 06:37 PM
As a Orochi I RARELY and I mean RARELY use deflect. I mainly Parry more profitable dmg wise.

NickyNoNeko
03-15-2017, 07:11 PM
I wanted to do the same post, with all the datas I have read from reddit and the others forum, but you did it very well.

Thank you very much, I really hope a fix for Orochi (and the others unbalanced classes)

corazondedelfin
03-15-2017, 07:23 PM
I wanted to do the same post, with all the datas I have read from reddit and the others forum, but you did it very well.

Thank you very much, I really hope a fix for Orochi (and the others unbalanced classes)

Thank you bro, appreciate it! :o Thanks to you all we are even improving that possible fixes. If you want to add anything feel free! The thread has two thousand views already and we all will read you :)

MrForz
03-15-2017, 10:44 PM
I can't possibly understand what was lost? The fact that anyone could find fault in any character in this game? Or the fact that anything could really require 0 skill? I think you lost how to read what the actual content was replying to. ^_^

It can imply a lot of things, such as the fact that the Orochi relies on too few trustworthy tools within his whole kit and such, the lack of flexibility made him very simple and rather boring to play. He also didn't insult or call out others for playing that character.

What was lost was your temper. To "lose it", lose temper. On a comment as simple as the one you've replied to you could have just refrained from being so damn involved and emotionally hurt somehow.

NickyNoNeko
03-16-2017, 11:26 AM
Thank you bro, appreciate it! :o Thanks to you all we are even improving that possible fixes. If you want to add anything feel free! The thread has two thousand views already and we all will read you :)

My pleasure ;)

My suggestions would be to be able to cancel riptide and have less stamina consumption for feints, because Orochi is supposed to be an assassins cot damnit ^^!
Look at this glorious Orochi vs iSkys who is a great player with warden, it's really fun and enjoyable to watch : https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveForHonor/comments/5zkbjk/an_idea_to_fix_the_defensive_meta/

He did :
1) Heavy Feint Right, Heavy Feint Left, Top light x2
2) Guardbreak cancelled Heavy Feint, top light x2
Keep it mind it's only possible with revenge because of unlimited stamina

Aarpian
03-16-2017, 12:50 PM
Hey corazondedelfin, I saw your post to me (http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1605819-Next-Patch-Rant?p=12446940&viewfull=1#post12446940) on Sunday. I appreciate you bringing the thread to my attention and know that we are looking over your suggestions. :)

Please, do me a favour and completely ignore this thread. I don't think I've seen a single cogent post, let alone one with anything approaching a good point.

If you balance around chuckleheads like this, the game will continue to die.

buhahh125
03-16-2017, 11:12 PM
It can imply a lot of things, such as the fact that the Orochi relies on too few trustworthy tools within his whole kit and such, the lack of flexibility made him very simple and rather boring to play. He also didn't insult or call out others for playing that character.

What was lost was your temper. To "lose it", lose temper. On a comment as simple as the one you've replied to you could have just refrained from being so damn involved and emotionally hurt somehow.

LAWL you think I was emotionally hurt?....:cool: That's cute.

corazondedelfin
03-16-2017, 11:58 PM
Please, do me a favour and completely ignore this thread. I don't think I've seen a single cogent post, let alone one with anything approaching a good point.

If you balance around chuckleheads like this, the game will continue to die.

**** off Aarpian, **** off. Who do you think you are .

solho
03-17-2017, 12:03 AM
**** off Aarpian, **** off. Who do you think you are .

he must be a newbie, no need to insult him, just only ignore him.

psyminion
03-17-2017, 01:20 AM
as a rep 5 orochi main, id like to see a buff to the useless unblockable (deflect timing is OK for bots but not live P2P) and make riptide strike cancellable.

sure I can stomp noobs all day (without said buffs) but as soon as it gets into rep 4 and up guys, the orochi needs a little more tools to play dynamically. GB>heavy>LT>LT>ZA is effective but boring.

MrForz
03-17-2017, 01:22 AM
**** off Aarpian, **** off. Who do you think you are .

No need to make that sort of approach. Same could be asked of you.

solho
03-17-2017, 01:55 AM
as a rep 5 orochi main, id like to see a buff to the useless unblockable (deflect timing is OK for bots but not live P2P) and make riptide strike cancellable.

sure I can stomp noobs all day (without said buffs) but as soon as it gets into rep 4 and up guys, the orochi needs a little more tools to play dynamically. GB>heavy>LT>LT>ZA is effective but boring.

yea, in low leves orochi is god for newbie but with people who already have some idea orochi its easy to play.

Mege92
03-17-2017, 02:12 AM
If anything is done to buff Orochi (which I'd welcome btw, he's way too linear now), they'll need to take out some power from either top light or ZA.

corazondedelfin
03-17-2017, 02:52 AM
If anything is done to buff Orochi (which I'd welcome btw, he's way too linear now), they'll need to take out some power from either top light or ZA.

No way you are going to nerf the orochi, you have to be kidding.

Mege92
03-18-2017, 02:32 PM
No way you are going to nerf the orochi, you have to be kidding.

I'm not kidding, Orochi's top light and ZA are crazy good.

Specialkha
03-18-2017, 02:43 PM
And if you buff the Orochi, we can say goodbye to Nobushi as Assassins are its main weakness.

Overall, Orochi does not need any kind of buff. So if you buff something, you will need to nerf something else in return.

Planetus-
03-18-2017, 02:48 PM
i don't really think the Orochi is in a terrible place, if you took some power out of the ZA and applied it elsewhere to make more of his tools useful it would probably be much better than just a straight buff, right now it feels like all he has is top light combo, ZA and GB/light attack parry -> heavy attack as reliable tools, besides the usual feints and storm rush cancels.

Making the dodge non-guardbreakable is a terrible idea though, guard breaks should always be able to punish dodges, that change would make Orochi safe vs 50/50's such as Warden shoulder charge and Shugoki's run mixup.

corazondedelfin
03-30-2017, 11:33 AM
i don't really think the Orochi is in a terrible place

True, he is not just in a terrible place, but totally unplayable against any experienced player at all. You have no chance against someone that knows what he is doing. Sorry for not seeing your answer before.


UBISOFT, when are you going to buff and improve the mechanics to play as a real samurai in this videogame with my loved orochi???? You said you will and weeks past already! I even stopped playing in so much time past...

Aarpian
03-30-2017, 11:34 AM
True, he is not just in a terrible place, but totally unplayable against any experienced player at all. You have no chance against someone that knows what he is doing. Sorry for not seeing your answer before.


UBISOFT, when are you going to buff and improve the mechanics to play as a real samurai in this videogame with my loved orochi???? You said you will and weeks past already!

It's not a problem with the orochi, it's a problem with the core mechanics.

corazondedelfin
03-30-2017, 11:50 AM
It's not a problem with the orochi, it's a problem with the core mechanics.

They must fix it, they must, Orochi is broken, he has no chance in a fight of medium/high tier gameplay.

Aarpian
03-30-2017, 12:24 PM
They must fix it, they must, Orochi is broken, he has no chance in a fight of medium/high tier gameplay.

You can dumpster people in mid-tier with him with clever use of stormrush feints, unparriable tech and actually using heavy attacks and feints as well as top light.

If blocking wasn't entirely risk free and parries weren't so powerful, his mobility and damage output would have him in a very strong position.

corazondedelfin
04-02-2017, 03:05 PM
Ubisoft, how long it will take to you to improve the orochi, I wonder, cause as soon as I get the last trophy for the platinum, or its there these improvements at least partially or Im totally gone. A lot of weeks ago you read this thread and you saw most of people that have experience as Orochi agreed with it, and nothing is happening...

corazondedelfin
04-06-2017, 12:04 PM
Is there a streaming going on today? You are supposed to talk about your improvements and rework for the Orochi this time, I guess? I Hope you use the info that you read in this thread!

secrecy274
04-06-2017, 12:46 PM
Ubisoft > How to fix the samurai Orochi
This thread will be about enumerating the problems that an Orochi should not have so he becomes what was planned , AN AGRESSIVE AGILE COUNTERATTACKER SAMURAI, and COMPETITIVE with the same posibilities as the good characters and equal to them:

Patch the non-blocking and reaction times against light spam attack coming from Berserker, Peacekeeper...
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Make the dodge non-guarbreakable, it doesnt make any sense to be GB'ed if you are turning around the body of your enemy to attack in a non covered area! You are supposed to be an agile asian hardtrained warrior so he will not put his hands on you while you do such a move!
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Add timing for the dodge to get a deflect, as right now deflects are worth NOTHING compared to parries and an orochi is supposed to base his gameplays in the deflect, so make the time to deflect bigger as its high risk dodging against the attack of your enemy knowing that you will get barely nothing in return. The timing needs to increase!
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Deflect+light attack does barely no damage and its a super risky move. Deflect+heavyattack its impossible to hit anyone with it and its supposed to be the BEST OROCHI SUPER RISKY DEFINITIVE ATTACK: HURRICANE BLAST. And you will NEVER EVER EVER hit anyone that knows the basics of this videogame with it, its absolutely ridiculous that no Orochis use his best attack! For gods sake Im the only one I know that uses all the orochis moves including this one and you always fail with this one while you take SO MUCH TIME to load the hit after the deflect succeeds.
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Riptide Strike is too too much risk FOR SAME REWARD THAN A NORMAL HEAVY, was that intended or its just a way to troll? I managed to become good with this attack and I do it because its cool and only for that reason, not because it hits harder or its faster than a normal heavy. Riptide Strike should do more damage and be unblockable to be actually worth of some use.

-

Now a question for you Ubisoft people that read this: Was this intended? To make orochi the coolest warrior in the game, the only real samurai, with the video that every orochi has to be worth 10 other warriors, but then your character is indeed a ****? His best attacks are HURRICANE BLAST and WIND GUST, that are risky as hell, and you can never ever do the first one and the second one is just a free light if you do it ? Hahahah Nobody uses HURRICANE BLAST, WIND GUST (this one barely but its used) or RIPTIDE STRIKE that I know or have seen, and I saw many many orochis to learn the best I could from every single one of them, which makes me literally being the only person I know that uses these moves... And I risk myself just to look cool, cause ALL OF THESE PROBLEMS make OROCHI non-competitive at medium-high level of gameplay.


Thank you for reading, hope you fix the orochi soon. I just tried to help you with the task, hope you understand my english as It's not perfect.

Thanks everyone for reading!

Orochi is neither OP nor UP, he's solid middle tier.
As for your points.

1) Don't really have anything to say about this one.

2) GB is the counter to defensive play, it being either blocking or dodging. If you rely on only dodging, you will get punished for it, as it should be. There's also the fact that any assassin (and Kensei and Valk) can counter a GB while dodging by simple doing their dodge attack. The problem many Orochi have is that they use it too often, which makes it predictable, and therefore punishable. As for your little piece of fanboy'ism at the end... really, any hero in this game is a "hardtrained" warrior, why would this one be any more "hardtrained"?

3) Do you have any hard data that the timing is smaller than a Parry? Otherwise, I would say train until you can do it frequently, I've meet a Orochi that were good at both Deflect AND Parry, and he was a real pain to deal with.

4) I don't have any knowledge about this, so I won't comment.

5) Riptide Strike do guarantee the top light follow up though, so you basically get the damage of two heavies by successfully using it, not to mention it'll throw off your enemy, putting pressure on him.
Not to mention if used at the right time you'll dodge the enemies attack in the progress.
(I admit, Riptide Strike might not be the attack think it is, I rarely play Orochi.)

And the rest here is just full of fanboy'ism. For him being the "coolest" is entirely subjective, I don't like his looks, who are you to say I'm wrong?
You even might want to do some research on the "real" samurai, it'll blow your mind. But you're right, if the video states a simple Orochi has to be worth 10 others, but you're not, you're not fit to be an Orochi ;) . Joking aside, you're worth at least ten other soldiers, however you're not by default worth ten other heroes/champions/classes or whatever people want to call them.

corazondedelfin
04-06-2017, 01:00 PM
Dear secrecy, this discussion ended weeks ago, I just bump it to make the developers see it and read the discussion pages where we actively discussed it aswell. Its not to really talk about that now again cause we did a pretty good discussion and the thread ideas are really good aswell. I just want to see the Orochi reworked and improved to be able to fight a 1 on 1 against any other good character/hero.

I repeat, Im reviving this thread so now, that the time for the Orochi fix has come, they can see it again. Its not to talk about it again writing arguments.

secrecy274
04-06-2017, 01:05 PM
Dear secrecy, this discussion ended weeks ago, I just bump it to make the developers see it and read the discussion pages where we actively discussed it aswell. Its not to really talk about that now again cause we did a pretty good discussion and the thread ideas are really good aswell. I just want to see the Orochi reworked and improved to be able to fight a 1 on 1 against any other good character/hero.

I repeat, Im reviving this thread so now, that the time for the Orochi fix has come, they can see it again. Its not to talk about it again writing arguments.

Then you might want to reread the forum rules, since bumping is against them.

Specialkha
04-06-2017, 01:05 PM
He is already able to fight 1v1 against all hero. Just git gud.

corazondedelfin
04-06-2017, 01:14 PM
He is already able to fight 1v1 against all hero. Just git gud.

Git gud before talking to me like that specialkha... Im a pretty good orochi https://fhtracker.com/profile/psn/corazondedelfin/heroes ...and I havent played for a week.

Orochi is in a really bad position, nowhere near high tier or top tier, and just above Lawbringer and Raider, same leven than Kensei and a little worse than Zerker as its reactions times against spam are somekind bugged and It was find out by many of us in different threads weeks ago. But I repeat, I wont start to discuss this again, and less with you.

Edit: And much better than you french high guy it seems, GIT GUD ;) https://fhtracker.com/profile/pc/Specialkha/heroes

Specialkha
04-06-2017, 01:27 PM
Such desillusion.. Worse than a zerker? There is a reason why they want to buff a little zerker and not orochi this time. Just above LB and raider? Seriously? He is a solid middle tier, deal with it. And btw, much better, I do not think so.