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Terras_Kasi
03-09-2017, 06:10 AM
About the gear issue. When i first faced a level 4 Rep player i got my *** handed to me. I complained it was all about gear, and that's why he won. Well, i was wrong. For everyone still complaining about gear, it has nothing to do with it, it's all about skill. Played last night, with the mindset gear is not the issue, just play. Faced off against a level Rep 4, and 5, 1V1, and im a level Rep 1, beat them both. The level 5, just got him, the level 4 i took apart like yesterdays lunch. Which also got me wondering, what is the point of the gear if it doesn't make your toon better? Apart from having something to aim for i guess in regards to longevity, but that's about all.

Einherjar25
03-09-2017, 06:13 AM
About the gear issue. When i first faced a level 4 Rep player i got my *** handed to me. I complained it was all about gear, and that's why he won. Well, i was wrong. For everyone still complaining about gear, it has nothing to do with skill. Played last night, with the mindset gear is not the issue, just play. Faced off against a level Rep 4, and 5, 1V1, and im a level Rep 1, beat them both. The level 5, just got him, the level 4 i took apart like yesterdays lunch. Which also got me wondering, what is the point of the gear if it doesn't make your toon better? Apart from having something to aim for i guess in regards to longevity, but that's about all.

Were you in duels!?!? Gear is not considered in duels..... You character is "default". You only keep your look

Terras_Kasi
03-09-2017, 06:25 AM
no i played them in Dominion. It was start of the match, so no on had been attacked yet, and i ran straight for them took out the level 4. Then proceeded to their first base where the level 5 was waiting and 1v1 him also. So was pretty happy with the outcome. Doesn't mean i wont get thrashed next time, but its good to see its skill not gear that matters

Egotistic_Ez
03-09-2017, 07:29 AM
Sorry but no, gear is very important. A lot of classes (though not all) can kill you with a revenge parry at 108 gs. So the moment they get revenge up you either have to flee or lose.

Skill still matters of course, a lot of dominion players are simply atrocious, so you can overcome that gear gap with common sense a lot of the time, but a 108 warden who knows how to use his gear is essentially unbeatable.

GayForShugoki
03-09-2017, 08:03 AM
I find it rather humorous whenever I see posts crying about gear and the fact that it is pay to win. Revenge naturally increases your damage. Having a full bar for ‘Revenge Attack’ is not going to make your attacks one hit people, same with the ‘Attack’ on blades. The increase is hardly noticeable.

I often run with 108 gear and sometimes with no gear at all, just the default items, assuming I select the wrong loadout, and I still do about half their health with a revenge parry into an overhead. With 108 gear, that damage is about 55%. I can two shot people with two heavies with Revenge – no matter if I’m using 108 gear or not.

The game is skill based, not gear based. Find something else to cry about.

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 08:06 AM
Nope. Still. Feeling right about the issue that gear should not have any influence.

And when it has almost no influence like you claim, then it wouldn't hurt to remove it completely. Would it?

NetcodeFavorite
03-09-2017, 08:59 AM
Nope. Still. Feeling right about the issue that gear should not have any influence.

And when it has almost no influence like you claim, then it wouldn't hurt to remove it completely. Would it?

It would, you'd remove all off our customization.

Ymir.exe
03-09-2017, 09:06 AM
The problem with gear is revenge. Can you beat a 108 with revenge spec? Yeah, sure. Is it inherently insanely more difficult than a normal character? Yes it is.

I'm fine with gear stats, just remove the ones that deal with revenge. Have that one particular feature be default level for everyone, always. No increasing revenge gain on defense, injury, no revenge attack increase, defense increase, have it be the same for everyone. If it takes a character without any gear 10 defended hits to get revenge in a 2 on 1, it should take 10 defended hits for a 108 character too.

Revenge should be kept as something to balance the playing field if your opponent is extremely aggressive, or if you're being ganged up on. It shouldn't be something that gives you infinite stamina and makes you semi-immortal just because you got top gear and dodged two attacks.

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 09:07 AM
It would, you'd remove all off our customization.

uhh.. gear stats, as in influence. Not talking about cosmetics.

Egotistic_Ez
03-09-2017, 09:37 AM
I find it rather humorous whenever I see posts crying about gear and the fact that it is pay to win. Revenge naturally increases your damage. Having a full bar for ‘Revenge Attack’ is not going to make your attacks one hit people.

I didn't say one shot, I said kill you with revenge parry. I know for a fact that wardens and orochi can knock you down with the revenge parry, then attack you twice fast enough that you die before being able to react. I'd imagine the same would go for some other heroes as well.

And before you say something stupid like "oh well then don't be parried" that's essentially a win condition for the enemy, since you not attacking them means they will obviously never lose the fight.

NetcodeFavorite
03-09-2017, 09:41 AM
uhh.. gear stats, as in influence. Not talking about cosmetics.

You said gear. But i wouldn't mind removing stats, tho if you can argue as to why we should. Just saying "we should remove it just cause" is not a good enough reason. Give me a good argument why and everyone else here and we might agree.

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 09:50 AM
You said gear. But i wouldn't mind removing stats, tho if you can argue as to why we should. Just saying "we should remove it just cause" is not a good enough reason. Give me a good argument why and everyone else here and we might agree.

this topic was about gear stats, wasn´t it?

Yeah, because it isn´t a fair competition when someone can get an advantage by spending more time in a game.
http://www.sirlin.net/posts/sirlin-on-game-design-ep3-uneven-playfields

i am really tired of repeating myself, so please listen to the podcast and then we can discuss.

NetcodeFavorite
03-09-2017, 10:07 AM
this topic was about gear stats, wasn´t it?

Yeah, because it isn´t a fair competition when someone can get an advantage by spending more time in a game.
http://www.sirlin.net/posts/sirlin-on-game-design-ep3-uneven-playfields

i am really tired of repeating myself, so please listen to the podcast and then we can discuss.

Games with gear has ALWAYS had that kind of system. More time = More rewards and you then use these rewards to give yourself an advantage. However, there should be a matchmaking system so those who hasn't spent as much time in the game, shouldn't be facing these who has spent alot of time in the game. So you don't roflstomp the new players.

Even though gear matters in this game, you can still beat 108gearscore when you have 0 gearscore with skills alone. I've done it countless times and tbh i rarely get defeated in a 1v1 even tho they have 108 gearscore and i got like 12 or 10 etc. It is usually what hero im facing, because valk, pk and orochi are my nemesis i have issues defeating.

But saying you shouldn't get an advantage because you spent more time is stupid. Because thats like saying you shouldn't be better at a char because you spent more time ,because you have a unfair advantage because you know more about the char than them. Therefor, after everygame, your combos will randomize so you never learn the combos.

In the last Ubisoft stream of For honor, they said they will implement a matchmaking system, so you do not as often, face high geared ppls.

Aarpian
03-09-2017, 10:13 AM
About the gear issue. When i first faced a level 4 Rep player i got my *** handed to me. I complained it was all about gear, and that's why he won. Well, i was wrong. For everyone still complaining about gear, it has nothing to do with it, it's all about skill. Played last night, with the mindset gear is not the issue, just play. Faced off against a level Rep 4, and 5, 1V1, and im a level Rep 1, beat them both. The level 5, just got him, the level 4 i took apart like yesterdays lunch. Which also got me wondering, what is the point of the gear if it doesn't make your toon better? Apart from having something to aim for i guess in regards to longevity, but that's about all.

Hey guys, about the danger issue - I was wrong. I just played Russian Roulette twice last night with 5 rounds in the cylinder, and I won both times! Clearly the game isn't dangerous because I was able to play it and win

This is what you sound like.

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 10:28 AM
Games with gear has ALWAYS had that kind of system. More time = More rewards and you then use these rewards to give yourself an advantage. However, there should be a matchmaking system so those who hasn't spent as much time in the game, shouldn't be facing these who has spent alot of time in the game. So you don't roflstomp the new players.

Even though gear matters in this game, you can still beat 108gearscore when you have 0 gearscore with skills alone. I've done it countless times and tbh i rarely get defeated in a 1v1 even tho they have 108 gearscore and i got like 12 or 10 etc. It is usually what hero im facing, because valk, pk and orochi are my nemesis i have issues defeating.

But saying you shouldn't get an advantage because you spent more time is stupid. Because thats like saying you shouldn't be better at a char because you spent more time ,because you have a unfair advantage because you know more about the char than them. Therefor, after everygame, your combos will randomize so you never learn the combos.

In the last Ubisoft stream of For honor, they said they will implement a matchmaking system, so you do not as often, face high geared ppls.

Saying that you deserve a physical advantage for playing more is stupid.

DrExtrem
03-09-2017, 11:23 AM
Gear is a bit of a mixed bag in this game.

Certain stats have little influence, that can be compensated by gear, the opponent has. If I have a bonus on damage and the opponent one on defense, they pretty much even each other out.

It gets problematic, if gear allows you to lever certain things out, when combined with other effects. Like revenge gear does. Stack base attack, revenge gain and revenge attack, and you can kill your opponents very, very fast. Its the multiplicative nature of certain stats, that makes certain gear speccs too powerful.

Stats should not get erased from gear but the booster stats certainly need an overhaul and some interesting options like special effects on certain moves, that may also have a downside. Overall, the stats,should become more "traditional", with a steady increase in most (if not all stats).

NetcodeFavorite
03-09-2017, 11:25 AM
Saying that you deserve a physical advantage for playing more is stupid.

In a game with gear, thats how it works and have always worked in every single game ever with gear. So whining about it now is stupid.

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 11:29 AM
In a game with gear, thats how it works and have always worked in every single game ever with gear. So whining about it now is stupid.

I am not whining. I am Saying why it's bad and i am arguing to get it out, or at least a game mode without it. I also don't want any pvp game with these mechanics and keep bringing this up every chance i get.

If you don't like that, then don't engage in a conversation and don't join a forum which purpose it is to discuss aspects of a product,good or bad and gather feedback to Improve said product.

NetcodeFavorite
03-09-2017, 11:55 AM
I am not whining. I am Saying why it's bad and i am arguing to get it out, or at least a game mode without it. I also don't want any pvp game with these mechanics and keep bringing this up every chance i get.

If you don't like that, then don't engage in a conversation and don't join a forum which purpose it is to discuss aspects of a product,good or bad and gather feedback to Improve said product.

You are saying why you think it is bad. Its your opinion, not a fact. And so you think, only because i disagree with you, iam not allowed to talk here? Also you don't even want to argue why, you just said in a previous post you don't like to repeat yourself. Now you also say you try and keep bringing it up every chance you get. You contradict yourself twice in 3 posts. You should be the one who shouldn't engage in a conversation, because so far you have only said its bad, not why. Or unless "unfair advantage" is the only argument you got. Which i disagree with. You spend more time in the game, why wouldn't you get more rewards? Do you mean, that someone who spends 1 hr in the game should get same thing, someone who spends 10+ hrs gets? Or do you mean that there should be no reward at all? Cuz then the reason to play disapperes alltogether.

Also that you want a different game mode without gear, there exists 2 of them. Called Brawl and Duel, gear has 0 impact there.

Butonfly
03-09-2017, 11:59 AM
Trapzerker Feat reduction, gear vs no gear CD's. You get a massive reduction in feat CD's fully geared for it. This has a dramatic impact on a match.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcY5C3R5ZkI

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 12:20 PM
You are saying why you think it is bad. Its your opinion, not a fact. And so you think, only because i disagree with you, iam not allowed to talk here? Also you don't even want to argue why, you just said in a previous post you don't like to repeat yourself. Now you also say you try and keep bringing it up every chance you get. You contradict yourself twice in 3 posts. You should be the one who shouldn't engage in a conversation, because so far you have only said its bad, not why. Or unless "unfair advantage" is the only argument you got. Which i disagree with. You spend more time in the game, why wouldn't you get more rewards? Do you mean, that someone who spends 1 hr in the game should get same thing, someone who spends 10+ hrs gets? Or do you mean that there should be no reward at all? Cuz then the reason to play disapperes alltogether.

Also that you want a different game mode without gear, there exists 2 of them. Called Brawl and Duel, gear has 0 impact there.

Of course you are allowed to talk. You can do so in a respectful manner or i won't take you serious. Saying i am whining is disrespectful.

I said i don't want to repeat myself. In this. Thread alone i stated it more than one time. Granted my posts got deleted yesterday because i got banned for spaming.. Lol.. So i provided you a link to a podcast where sirlin and aphotix go over this topic in crucial detail. Far better than i ever could.

So, i can understand when people don't want to broaden there Horizon and don't take a bit of work to educate themselves. It's far easier to get things presented to you in the form of moving pictures.

Anyway. Unfair advantage is the one argument that tops it all and yes. It is unfair from a competitive view point.

Imagine if we played chess, but i would get an additional piece for every year i played.

Or i can compete in tour de france with a motorcycle because i competed last year.

That doesn't make sense.

And saying that there is no reason to play a game without stat progression is just such a bad argument, It should not even come up.

1.you should play a game because you want to play the game. When you need reward to play a game, the said game seems to not be interesting in itself and you rather seem like a lab monkey that just does it for a banana.

2.cosmetical progression is fine as i stated numerous times.

DrinkinMyStella
03-09-2017, 12:36 PM
Its the revenge mode that high level players have the advantage over. Im gear score 108 and revenge is at its max stats, revenge by defence, revenge mode attack, revenge mode my injury etc and it helps me massively when being ganged up on. I tried playing with a new character and boy was it difficult.

NetcodeFavorite
03-09-2017, 12:57 PM
Of course you are allowed to talk. You can do so in a respectful manner or i won't take you serious. Saying i am whining is disrespectful.

I said i don't want to repeat myself. In this. Thread alone i stated it more than one time. Granted my posts got deleted yesterday because i got banned for spaming.. Lol.. So i provided you a link to a podcast where sirlin and aphotix go over this topic in crucial detail. Far better than i ever could.

So, i can understand when people don't want to broaden there Horizon and don't take a bit of work to educate themselves. It's far easier to get things presented to you in the form of moving pictures.

Anyway. Unfair advantage is the one argument that tops it all and yes. It is unfair from a competitive view point.

Imagine if we played chess, but i would get an additional piece for every year i played.

Or i can compete in tour de france with a motorcycle because i competed last year.

That doesn't make sense.

And saying that there is no reason to play a game without stat progression is just such a bad argument, It should not even come up.

1.you should play a game because you want to play the game. When you need reward to play a game, the said game seems to not be interesting in itself and you rather seem like a lab monkey that just does it for a banana.

2.cosmetical progression is fine as i stated numerous times.

I just wanna comment on disrespectful part. You call me stupid and a "lab monkey." Iam not sure how thats not disrespectful. Quote from you "Saying that you deserve a physical advantage for playing more is stupid."

You are taking this out of context and your comparisons doesn't work. First off because the chess board needs to be pretty much 100x its size for that to even work because eventually the board would run out of room. And changing from Bike to motorcycle doesn't work aswell, because thats changing what you are using, not making it better. A better comparison would be that your bike gets higher quality things on it, like a better chain, more comfortable chair and so on and so forth, because thats what we are getting. Im not going from wielding 1 halberd on my Lawbringer to using 2 halberds or something insane like that.

My reason to play the game has no value because it doesn't apply to you? And you also dictate why peoples play the game? Ppls can play the game because it has a nice landscape for all i care, that doesn't mean they play the game for the wrong reasons. Because there are no wrong reasons to play a game. The game is interesting to me and gear progression is another carrot to keep on playing that char.

Also your only argument so far, is that its unfair. Which i have already countered with that matchmaking is on its way to lower the chances that you face one with higher gear, mostly by using played time. But its impossible to make it 100% accurate, cuz then u would need to queue up with that char. Also, the devs have stated that they pair you by skills, cuz they value skills higher than gear. Which anyone should. Because skills will always outshine gear in For honor. Put the best player in the world vs a newb, give the newb 108 gear score, give the professional with 0 gearscore, the professional will always win. While sure, gear doesn't make you OP as i assume you know to, which is also an argument as to why gear isn't THAT big of a deal. And eventually, everyone will have 108 or close to it so that the gear will play an even smaller role.

I'll listen to the podcast and see if i hear any different argument than "its unfair." if i do i might give it a chance but if they jump straight in to the unfair part and refuse to let it go, like you, i'll just disregard it. Everygame is unfair in 1 way or another to a new player. When he gets better gear (which you do rather quick) and get more accustomed to the game, it won't make such a big difference and he will be able to pwn ppls like everyone else.

ItsHolyman666
03-09-2017, 01:12 PM
I would have liked to believe this myself, I kept telling all my buddies similar stuff, they're small buffs, this game is all skill based etc...then I finally found the time to get my conq to rep 3 and get some purple gear. No denying that with that I had such a massive advantage, from literally sending people flying across the map and down holes when I throw them, to getting revenge after 3-4 blocks, triggering revenge multiple times while fighting the same opponent.... it was pretty nasty. And my equipment level was in the low 70's.

OP, you either haven't been paying close enough attention to what's going on in your matches, or haven't had the opportunity to play much yourself with high end gear. It makes a difference, believe me.

NetcodeFavorite
03-09-2017, 01:31 PM
@Turric4n666 i've only listened to 14mins in and these guys basically want no gear progression, no char progression, whatsoever. They want you to get 100% of what the game has to offer in terms of chars skills, gears, etc when they open the game. They don't want char progression, even if the progression is 100% fair. In other words, even if you are faced vs players who has the exact same gear as you, its still not fair, because they don't have everything yet. So they basically don't want any progression at all. Already there, i disagree with that. I think it is fair, cuz no1 has any advantages above you, it is fair playing field.

Also in the beginning, they counter arguments they supposedly "heard." Like that its p2w to buy the game, idk who the **** would ever make such an argument but thats just stupid and i doubt they "heard it." Prob made it up to sound smarter if anything. And i just can't listen anymore to their podcast, its very tedious and anoying to listen to. Cuz they think any type of progression, even if u face opponents with the same progression, is unfair. Which i disagree with. And they talk about chess and counter this argument "Its okey to start with less pieces cuz it takes time to learn the game anyway." Plz tell me anyone who would say such a thing. Did they just google "top 10 most stupid comments."

The thing is 1hr long and even more and i doubt they will say anything else than its unfair, cuz thats the argument they have pushed for 15mins. Like i ****ing get it, its unfair, move on.

Edit: and the podcast keep getting stuck and i can't change the timeline in the podcast cuz then it gets stuck, can't be arsed to listen to the 15mins again. Sorry if this comment comes of as douchy but the fact that the podcast keeps getting stuck is annoying me and the way they talk is very tedious.

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 01:31 PM
I appreciate that you take the time.
For the record i took your wording in the stupid sentence and changed a word. I also said like a lab monkey.. There is a small difference.

Alustar.exe
03-09-2017, 01:33 PM
This is a simple fix, add an internal cool down for revenge activation of maybe 60s(plus more time for diminishing returns)
And then add in a diminishing return on the health/shield buff.
Right now all the revenge system is used as is for free health and a damage shielding combined with knock backs and few hits.

Conversely, people need to be more aware of the battle and not hit a player who just flashed orange. Let that cool down and reengage after the revenge is gone.

NetcodeFavorite
03-09-2017, 01:37 PM
So Turrc, what these guys want are competitive games to be like Tekken or DoA or Street fighter. That is not what For honor is, its completly different.

Alustar.exe
03-09-2017, 01:40 PM
Hell even those fighting games have some form of progression. You don't just start out with every character unlocked.

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 01:46 PM
Ok no arguing with the ignorant people. If you don't know what competition is, so be it. I hope you make it far in life.

Azarquiel
03-09-2017, 01:54 PM
I still dont understand why people still complaing about gear stats, is just a reward for playing the same character long enough. using heroic gear give a good boost to all, but anyway u CAN lose to someone who play better, i kill better gears that me, and i die too to poor gears that me. Telling the game is unfair because u dont want to play long to get better thing is just lazy.

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 01:57 PM
I still dont understand why people still complaing about gear stats, is just a reward for playing the same character long enough. using heroic gear give a good boost to all, but anyway u CAN lose to someone who play better, i kill better gears that me, and i die too to poor gears that me. Telling the game is unfair because u dont want to play long to get better thing is just lazy.

And do you win against equally skilled people with better gear?

Alustar.exe
03-09-2017, 01:59 PM
The complaint isn't that new players are so hundred, the complaint is that it's far easy to face tank an entire group with those stat weights.
It's proof that when you give players a modicum of control over their own stat weights, they will find ways to abuse the systems put in place to help level the playing field, and imbalance the whole game.

Azarquiel
03-09-2017, 02:00 PM
And do you win against equally skilled people with better gear?

Sure, if is 1 vs 1 i can win, normally the only way u die if because u do some mistakes or another player come and hit u in the back.

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 02:03 PM
Sure, if is 1 vs 1 i can win, normally the only way u die if because u do some mistakes or another player come and hit u in the back.

So gear doesn't make a difference?

Gray360UK
03-09-2017, 02:08 PM
I guarantee I get Revenge 5x more often now that I have purple gear (currently level 78).
It has become a big mistake for anyone to trigger my Revenge state.
This was not the case when I had blue / grey gear.

Azarquiel
03-09-2017, 02:10 PM
So gear doesn't make a difference?

make a great difference if u dont know how to play, but for a skilled player (not me anyway) is not a big deal.

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 02:15 PM
make a great difference if u dont know how to play, but for a skilled player (not me anyway) is not a big deal.

And for two skilled player? Who would win? The one with gear or the one without?

Reign
03-09-2017, 02:20 PM
The system is no different than a shooter game that you unock the .50 Cal suppressed sniper rifle at a higher level than a new character. Of course that player will have an advantage for the time being but the upgrade is available to all who play the game. And after the game has been played awhile everyone has it so it becomes a non-issue, the difference is this crowd seems to whine about it more. And to be honest the gear is insanely easy to get as long as you don't switch characters like a hummingbird on meth.

I do think some aspects need a few minor tweaks but that's it, definitely not be removed at all. If they did remove it there would then be a slew of new posts crying about not being able to defend yourself when outnumbered. It's a plague on this forum and it's absolutely ridiculous that anything under the sun someone hasn't learned how to deal with immediately needs a nerf or removal. And again I am not saying there aren't some issues that need attention, but if you read these forums long enough it's painfully obvious that the squeaky wheels are making the issues seem much larger than they are.

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 02:23 PM
The system is no different than a shooter game that you unock the .50 Cal suppressed sniper rifle at a higher level than a new character. Of course that player will have an advantage for the time being but the upgrade is available to all who play the game. And after the game has been played awhile everyone has it so it becomes a non-issue, the difference is this crowd seems to whine about it more. And to be honest the gear is insanely easy to get as long as you don't switch characters like a hummingbird on meth.

I do think some aspects need a few minor tweaks but that's it, definitely not be removed at all. If they did remove it there would then be a slew of new posts crying about not being able to defend yourself when outnumbered. It's a plague on this forum and it's absolutely ridiculous that anything under the sun someone hasn't learned how to deal with immediately needs a nerf or removal. And again I am not saying there aren't some issues that need attention, but if you read these forums long enough it's painfully obvious that the squeaky wheels are making the issues seem much larger than they are.

And new players should just go f themselves or buy steel packs?

Obdach01
03-09-2017, 02:27 PM
And do you win against equally skilled people with better gear?

If it's equal skill, why shouldn't the better gear win? I mean it's in the word... BETTER. It's a game. If you want just to compare skill, there is 1v1... else it's 90% skill 10% gear, which is fine by me, as this is the game... it's how it is made. Why should I stick to one toon, if it had no benefit at all... I can play Street Fighter, if I want that... but this is For Honor.

Obdach01
03-09-2017, 02:28 PM
And new players should just go f themselves or buy steel packs?

You really just want to find something to complain about and to keep your view the only right view. We all used to be new players... did anyone go f off? How did we get steel? As if everyone started as rep.3 and above... i'm still at rep. 1... how do i do it, and how did i do it?
Jeeeeeeez!

Alustar.exe
03-09-2017, 02:33 PM
My issue isn't the ease or difficulty in getting the 108 great, I used to PvP in mmos before this. In I'm used to insane gear grinds for rep stats. This is a cake walk comparatively.
My issue is that the gear, to me, changes the nature of play in stupid ways.
It no longer is the competitive fighting game I thought it was, and instead becomes a race to see who can revenge the fastest/most and who can score free hits on people who wound up on their backs.
Yes there are ways around that style of play, but good luck getting a group of randoms to coordinate attacks.

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 02:34 PM
You really just want to find something to complain about and to keep your view the only right view. We all used to be new players... did anyone go f off? How did we get steel? As if everyone started as rep.3 and above... i'm still at rep. 1... how do i do it, and how did i do it?
Jeeeeeeez!

Hey if you have fun getting beaten by more experienced and better equipped players.. Good for you. I think thats more on the masochistic side and less competitive.

Azarquiel
03-09-2017, 02:35 PM
And for two skilled player? Who would win? The one with gear or the one without?

the one who do less mistakes, like every fight.
The gear give good bonus, but if u know how to counter the other player, u still win.

The real problem is the mathmaking maybe, bringing new players vs players who play the same character enough time. But u have to see, sometimes there are no "new players", they players with high rank, but in another heroes.

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 02:37 PM
the one who do less mistakes, like every fight.
The gear give good bonus, but if u know how to counter the other player, u still win.

The real problem is the mathmaking maybe, bringing new players vs players who play the same character enough time. But u have to see, sometimes there are no "new players", they players with high rank, but in another heroes.

Two equally skilled players.

Azarquiel
03-09-2017, 02:38 PM
My issue isn't the ease or difficulty in getting the 108 great, I used to PvP in mmos before this. In I'm used to insane gear grinds for rep stats. This is a cake walk comparatively.
My issue is that the gear, to me, changes the nature of play in stupid ways.
It no longer is the competitive fighting game I thought it was, and instead becomes a race to see who can revenge the fastest/most and who can score free hits on people who wound up on their backs.
Yes there are ways around that style of play, but good luck getting a group of randoms to coordinate attacks.

I agree with that, revenge is soo annoying with good gear because the players just want to activate and then fight.
But in the same way u encounter people who only GB and try to push u for a cliff or to a trap.

And yes, others MMO give so great boost in good gear that u can just wipe all of the other players who dont have the same tier of gear without problem.

Azarquiel
03-09-2017, 02:42 PM
Two equally skilled players.

I know that, but a normal person do mistakes too, no mather the skill they have. Even if the guy with high gear use revenge, u can lock them with GB or just go away until this finish. Is not a big deal.

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 02:48 PM
I know that, but a normal person do mistakes too, no mather the skill they have. Even if the guy with high gear use revenge, u can lock them with GB or just go away until this finish. Is not a big deal.

I did not ask about a counter. I asked you who you think will win when two equally players compete against each other one with full gear and one without.

C.K.Paterson
03-09-2017, 02:51 PM
I just have to just say it is possible to defeat an opponent with a greater gear score than you but you are definitely at a disadvantage. To stop the toxic community fighting it would be nice to be able to play all 4v4 game modes with gear disabled like I is in Duels and Brawls. Allowing new players or players with new fresh heros to not be at said disadvantage but also be able to play the game modes they enjoy the most.

Alustar.exe
03-09-2017, 02:51 PM
The one who makes the last mistakes. Gear does not equal skill

S8Canadian
03-09-2017, 02:53 PM
This is a simple fix, add an internal cool down for revenge activation of maybe 60s(plus more time for diminishing returns)
And then add in a diminishing return on the health/shield buff.
Right now all the revenge system is used as is for free health and a damage shielding combined with knock backs and few hits.

Conversely, people need to be more aware of the battle and not hit a player who just flashed orange. Let that cool down and reengage after the revenge is gone.

yepper. I'd like to see feats that give revenge on attacks replaced too. In single combat it think it should build a bit slower too even with max revenge build on both damage and block. I don't think it should be possible to get revenge in a 1 on 1 fight unless there are piles and piles of blocks, parrys and deflects.

Munktor
03-09-2017, 02:57 PM
I find it rather humorous whenever I see posts crying about gear and the fact that it is pay to win. Revenge naturally increases your damage. Having a full bar for ‘Revenge Attack’ is not going to make your attacks one hit people, same with the ‘Attack’ on blades. The increase is hardly noticeable.

I often run with 108 gear and sometimes with no gear at all, just the default items, assuming I select the wrong loadout, and I still do about half their health with a revenge parry into an overhead. With 108 gear, that damage is about 55%. I can two shot people with two heavies with Revenge – no matter if I’m using 108 gear or not.

The game is skill based, not gear based. Find something else to cry about.

Whereas I agree with the sentiment in general, you're missing the point of why people gripe about revenge gear. It has zero to do with the damage. Most competent players already realize that revenge damage at base is powerful and not boosted exceptionally by revenge attack gear. What people DO worry about is the revenge gain gear. It is quite noticeable compared to the damage/attack/duration gear bonuses. Revenge GAIN is the issue.

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 02:59 PM
The one who makes the last mistakes. Gear does not equal skill

Assumption. With gear you need 5 hits, without you need 6 hits to kill your opponent.

Now. Both do 5 mistakes. Who wins?

Alustar.exe
03-09-2017, 03:11 PM
Assumption. With gear you need 5 hits, without you need 6 hits to kill your opponent.

Now. Both do 5 mistakes. Who wins?

I'd like to know where these players are that possess such immaculate skills. I'm not arguing the revenge gear needs looked at, but saying that the sole reason you list is because of gear in game where you can DODGE attacks is false. This isn't wow or some other hard targeting system where your attacks nearly always succeed.

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 03:14 PM
Cool.. People that do mistakes now are immaculate. I rest my case.

Aarpian
03-09-2017, 03:17 PM
I'd like to know where these players are that possess such immaculate skills. I'm not arguing the revenge gear needs looked at, but saying that the sole reason you list is because of gear in game where you can DODGE attacks is false. This isn't wow or some other hard targeting system where your attacks nearly always succeed.

You are completely missing his point, though I don't know if it's deliberate or not.

Let's try an analogy...
2 athletes are lining up for the start of a race. Athlete A starts 20m ahead of athlete B. Everyone says "this isn't fair, he has an advantage", but you reply "No, there's no advantage, because athlete A could still win"

Whether nor not it's POSSIBLE to win is not the point, the point is that the gear skews the possibility to win in someone's favour.

Alustar.exe
03-09-2017, 03:19 PM
Keep on arguing your non existent hypothetical scenario instead of learning internal mechanics and where the issue really is. I've stated it before, and you are seriously going to argue with someone trying to help you?
Can't tell if trolling our just stupid. :/

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 03:21 PM
You are completely missing his point, though I don't know if it's deliberate or not.

Let's try an analogy...
2 athletes are lining up for the start of a race. Athlete A starts 20m ahead of athlete B. Everyone says "this isn't fair, he has an advantage", but you reply "No, there's no advantage, because athlete A could still win"

Whether nor not it's POSSIBLE to win is not the point, the point is that the gear skews the possibility to win in someone's favour.

Addition: Athlete A only is allowed to start ahead because already participated in 100 races.

Aarpian
03-09-2017, 03:22 PM
Can't tell if trolling our just stupid. :/

How did you make my response appear in your post like that?

Alustar.exe
03-09-2017, 03:25 PM
Ok, I'll try this again. The actual gains of the gear aren't that great outside of revenge gain. The attack buff and defense buff are negligible at best.
The real problem is that the devs said: "Hey hers a cool buff you can use to raven the playing field when you get grouped up on and btw you can stat it out to your tailored play style"
And the player base said: "You mean I can spam 5 revenge in a match, keep myself healed and shielded while attacking for free? Shut up and take my money!"

S8Canadian
03-09-2017, 03:25 PM
Whereas I agree with the sentiment in general, you're missing the point of why people gripe about revenge gear. It has zero to do with the damage. Most competent players already realize that revenge damage at base is powerful and not boosted exceptionally by revenge attack gear. What people DO worry about is the revenge gain gear. It is quite noticeable compared to the damage/attack/duration gear bonuses. Revenge GAIN is the issue.

"Revenge GAIN is the issue."

Nail on head :)

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 03:27 PM
How did you make my response appear in your post like that?

With the quote reply button :)

Turric4n666
03-09-2017, 03:29 PM
Ok, I'll try this again. The actual gains of the gear aren't that great outside of revenge gain. The attack buff and defense buff are negligible at best.
The real problem is that the devs said: "Hey hers a cool buff you can use to raven the playing field when you get grouped up on and btw you can stat it out to your tailored play style"
And the player base said: "You mean I can spam 5 revenge in a match, keep myself healed and shielded while attacking for free? Shut up and take my money!"

So we could get rid of it and not have a difference?

Alustar.exe
03-09-2017, 03:34 PM
Again, solution for revenge gains on gear:
Internal cool down for activation plus diminishing returns on further time costs along with diminishing returns on the health/shield buff.
That solves the problem of the gear.

Munktor
03-09-2017, 03:37 PM
Again, solution for revenge gains on gear:
Internal cool down for activation plus diminishing returns on further time costs along with diminishing returns on the health/shield buff.
That solves the problem of the gear.

Easier, and in my opinion better, solution for revenge gain on gear. Just remove it.

Revenge attack/defense/duration are all fine stats on the gear. The gain itself is what is creating issues. Just remove it. Allow players to all gain revenge at the same rate (from defending/being hit/etc) and it will better stabilize the risk/reward between ganging up on an opponent or not.

Alustar.exe
03-09-2017, 03:42 PM
Easier, and in my opinion better, solution for revenge gain on gear. Just remove it.

Revenge attack/defense/duration are all fine stats on the gear. The gain itself is what is creating issues. Just remove it. Allow players to all gain revenge at the same rate (from defending/being hit/etc) and it will better stabilize the risk/reward between ganging up on an opponent or not.

I'd be for testing both. See which would be a preferable option at least. The reason I say that is because I feel the intention was to give players the ability to choose how they wanted to build revenge. Not spam it.

C.K.Paterson
03-09-2017, 03:51 PM
It would of been nice not to have blank bars to start with to be honest. No one could really tell how much any thing was increased or decreased by. We all just guess based on how big or small the bar is. Could have some actuall stats, percentages or something so we could get a better idea on what we are doing when building our class.

FiveWhisper1745
03-09-2017, 04:59 PM
My advice if you're a Bambi, don't join dominion with the big boys if you don't want to get sent out back to be slaughtered. There is dominion vs ai, duels and brawls to learn you class and get gear. I've never bought a game and jumped into multiplayer thinking I was top dog and going to show these veterans how to play. That's faulty thinking and unrealistic and asking to have your pride hurt.

Was there this much complaining about how annoying it was to be steamrolled in (4v1,3v1) in dominion? For some reason I'm thinking there was and now we have a option to negate it. The big bad bullies with there over the top heavy spam can't win outnumbering there opponents and are upset.

Here's some pixel character saving advice. You need to do something other than hit the heavy overhead attack against a revenged opponent. Try spam guard breaking them till there revenge wears off. And there is a plethora of counter moves that removes the control of your opponents character.( head butt,shield bash, charge, shoulder bash, shield push,spear sweep, and the list goes on.

Taking away revenge in dominion would be catering to the ganksquads who have had there 2 weeks of fun taken away from them. I've pixel killed many opponents twice in a fight because of their ganksquad rezzing their dead comrade because it's tough focusing on 4 gnats buzzing around you.

No revenge in duels and brawls is a fair compromise. There is no 4v1 in duels the last I checked and if you're getting revenge in a duel things obviously are not going your way and probably deserve to lose the 1v1 encounter.

Dr_Ditters
03-09-2017, 05:38 PM
The solution is simple:

1) stop ganking
2) get your character up to Rep 3 (which is not that hard)
3) stop being such a damn cry baby (most important).

The amount of whining in this game is overwhelming.

C.K.Paterson
03-09-2017, 06:07 PM
Does complaining about the non existence of dedicated servers count as whining?

FiveWhisper1745
03-09-2017, 06:37 PM
Does complaining about the non existence of dedicated servers count as whining?

Irrelevant to the topic of discussion. If you want to make a "whining" thread about dedicated servers go ahead and have a blast. Might want to start a fresh topic post so you can air your grievances.

C.K.Paterson
03-09-2017, 07:00 PM
Firstly no need to get touchy.
The community of this game is split between people who feel a problem with certain ways the game is going and the other half are people who reply with "stop whining, git gud and just level up" people only see what they want to. Doesn't matter what anyone tells you about there own experiences with the game as you obviously haven't experienced you will just blow them off as "whining". This isn't the way to go. Try and actually think as if you had them issues and understand why such a large number of players would say this and feel that way.
I use to get these issues and I can still see a lot of them, I admit once you fully get to grips with the hero you use it becomes less of a problem but just denying that there is any issues all together isn't going to help the games longevity. Keeps going like this it'll just turn out like 'The Devision' full of O.P players scaring away any new players that want to Jump in and level up fast. Getting up to Rep 3 against bots? Kidding right?

FiveWhisper1745
03-09-2017, 07:50 PM
Firstly no need to get touchy.
The community of this game is split between people who feel a problem with certain ways the game is going and the other half are people who reply with "stop whining, git gud and just level up" people only see what they want to. Doesn't matter what anyone tells you about there own experiences with the game as you obviously haven't experienced you will just blow them off as "whining". This isn't the way to go. Try and actually think as if you had them issues and understand why such a large number of players would say this and feel that way.
I use to get these issues and I can still see a lot of them, I admit once you fully get to grips with the hero you use it becomes less of a problem but just denying that there is any issues all together isn't going to help the games longevity. Keeps going like this it'll just turn out like 'The Devision' full of O.P players scaring away any new players that want to Jump in and level up fast. Getting up to Rep 3 against bots? Kidding right?

Your the world is against me mentality and divide and conquer strategy is your own fault. You can learn a lot about people's writing if you read between the lines and see how they are trying to manipulate the situation. I don't think anyone was getting touchy, I think your just more overly sensitive when people don't agree with you. Divide and conquer= my opinion is the righteous one and I have the "community" in my corner. While you describe the opposition as the ignorant, "git good, stop whining", we have no substance to our argument or empathy for others. And your assumption that no one actually does, "try and actually think" about the game mechanics is offensive.

Your 'The Division' reference is so off base. Not once did you have to go to the dark zone(pvp) to max out your character level or to get really good gear. The division had an awesome story mode and game design with plenty of dungeon scenarios that were challenging and loot rewarding. You could group with friends and tackle some hard content without once facing pvp combat. If you got a problem with single player content and with 'For Honor' compared to the division than you might have an argument.

A little advice is to ignore the people who dont offer something you consider constructive input. And to not let it bother you. But by painting them as ignorant fools with no argument because it's not the same as yours is the wrong way to go.

BreakingInMan
03-09-2017, 08:22 PM
It would of been nice not to have blank bars to start with to be honest. No one could really tell how much any thing was increased or decreased by. We all just guess based on how big or small the bar is. Could have some actuall stats, percentages or something so we could get a better idea on what we are doing when building our class.

The devs are trying to make the game as real as possible. I don't believe before a duel, both individuals would go over their strengths and weaknesses. It sounds to me you need to put down the controller and go play Hello Kitty Island Adventure. The game has some issues but all new releases these days have some type fix needing implemented.

BreakingInMan
03-09-2017, 08:28 PM
Your the world is against me mentality and divide and conquer strategy is your own fault. You can learn a lot about people's writing if you read between the lines and see how they are trying to manipulate the situation. I don't think anyone was getting touchy, I think your just more overly sensitive when people don't agree with you. Divide and conquer= my opinion is the righteous one and I have the "community" in my corner. While you describe the opposition as the ignorant, "git good, stop whining", we have no substance to our argument or empathy for others. And your assumption that no one actually does, "try and actually think" about game mechanics that aren't similar to yours is offensive.

Your The Division reference is so off base. Not once did you have to go to the dark zone(pvp) to max out your character level or to get really good gear. The division had an awesome story mode and game design with plenty of dungeon scenarios that were challenging and loot rewarding. You could group with friends and tackle some hard content without once facing pvp combat. If you got a problem with single player content and with For Honor compared to the division than you might have an argument.

A little advice is to ignore the people who dont offer something you consider constructive input. And to not let it bother you. But by painting them as ignorant fools with no argument because it's not the same as yours is the wrong way to go.

You're wasting your time, Five. This kid needs to put the controller down and play Hello Kitty Island Adventure. CKP has gone full circle with a list of meaningless complaints because the game in its current state does not favor his skill set. He's either upset or too childish to understand outside of his insulated bubble, people do want to give anybody an advantage.

C.K.Paterson
03-09-2017, 09:13 PM
Okay now. I've been playing all types video games since I was a little wiper snapper. At no point did I say it was unfair for me. I've actually been doing pretty good in the game and I enjoy it a lot. I go on this forum every so often and I see people complaining about certain aspects of the game and I can see where most of them are coming from. No need to start insulting people on a forum. Honestly I want this game to get far. You see the numbers of players drop over the time it's been out and it's just not cool to see. Any constructive criticism we as the community can give the devs is helpful. This is what I was talking about toxic. what I was talking about before was having to ability to fully understand how much your attack, defences and stamina changes with the gear. Knowing if it's worth using certain gear so on and so forth.

Gnarxly
03-09-2017, 09:18 PM
I have to agree.
Player skill is 99%, gear matters about 1%.
That said I don't think anyone claims gear doesn't give you advantage (and disadvantage at the same time).

DrExtrem
03-09-2017, 09:21 PM
I have to agree.
Player skill is 99%, gear matters about 1%.
That said I don't think anyone claims gear doesn't give you advantage (and disadvantage at the same time).

One % more, is all you are going to need.

Skilled players have gear too.

Gnarxly
03-10-2017, 12:08 AM
One % more, is all you are going to need.

Skilled players have gear too.

No. 99% of time you are basicaly loosing because of skill. Even with gear you would have lost. The thing is lots of people like to think they are better than they really are, so convincing yourself it's lag, gear, spike, bugs or whatever else is convinient excuse to keep yourself bubbled from reality.
Also No. The vast majority of players are at low to mid player skill level. At that level the player skill differentiates so much, while being on the low side at the same time, granting a vast field of randomnes, the small factor of gear in the big picture really isn't as factor as some people want it to be.

Reign
03-10-2017, 12:28 AM
And new players should just go f themselves or buy steel packs?

Nope, do what so many of us have. Jump in matches, level up, take some lumps along the way, and come out better for it on the other side. Even when I do play a new character I sometimes have an "oh sh*t" moment when I see geared people in MM. But then I get in the match use what I've learned and fair pretty well even on a pre-rep 1 hero against blue/purple/orange geared players.

I was Rep1 the day of release after stopping for the day. So anyone with one day to play and enough motivation can level up extremely fast in this game to gear up. And like I said sure some things need tweaking but all these cries to remove things need to stop and I hope Ubisoft isn't foolish enough to listen to them.

And I will put this all on its own because it's my main point. THE MAJORITY OF THE FORUMS DONT WANT TO LEARN ANYTHING THEY JUST WANT THE GAME CHANGED TO FIT THEIR PERSONAL WHIMS. And that is dangerous to the people who will be playing this game long after they have moved to the next big thing.

Egotistic_Ez
03-10-2017, 01:22 AM
Wow, this thread got long.

I see a lot of back and forth about skill overcoming gear and blah blah blah, but the fact is revenge spec is broken. If I get revenge up, which I do against any decent player (a bad player I just outright murder) I can just sit on it. I then try and kill the guy as normal, but the moment he attacks I hit revenge mode to parry, and he dies before he can stand up.

That's not a git gud issue, it's not a level up issue, it's a gear breaking the ****ing game issue.

Even if my opponent has 108 gs the above still holds true because revenge attack scales far better than defence.

Gear is broken, not because of the advantage it gives, but because of the stats and how they scale. If you deny there's a problem then you are either too inexperienced or are simply lying to try and keep this bs in the game because it's the only way you can get a kill.

FledgeSRondo
03-10-2017, 04:36 AM
One thought, when upgrading gear any buff to a specific stat also results in debuffing another stat, so players who create builds that specifically focus on certain strengths are also opening themselves up to specific weaknesses. Somebody who has the time and knowhow should make a chart showing what players are sacrificing in order to get those "game-breaking" abilities, so that whenever we encounter people with certain amplified abilities we know what weaknesses to focus on and exploit.

And, if the gaming balance really is broken (as players can be pretty darn creative), I'm sure Ubisoft is collecting and analyzing player match data and figuring out whether or not any nerfs or rebalancing is needed, wouldn't doubt they would patch it up eventually, just as in any other competitive online fighting game. Probably need more data than a few weeks worth of playtime, though, especially since most people haven't even gone through building just one hero. The meta is still evolving at this point, guess we'll have to wait and see and air our thoughts, experiences and concerns in the meantime (which, who knows, could change and evolve too).