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View Full Version : Take boosts out of 4v4



Arclyte.
03-08-2017, 06:19 PM
I have no idea why these are in the game

The most effective way for a faster hero to play 4v4 is to run at the start and grab defense/attack boosts. It makes for awful gameplay, and there is absolutely no reason to have these buffs in a skill-based fighting game.

itsPlanB
03-08-2017, 06:26 PM
First it's not in all 4v4 matches. It's only in Deathmatch (Skirmish and Elimination). You have the same opportunities to grab those boosts, and you have 3 other teammates there to help corner said player. Try some strategy instead of all the complaining.


I have no idea why these are in the game

The most effective way for a faster hero to play 4v4 is to run at the start and grab defense/attack boosts. It makes for awful gameplay, and there is absolutely no reason to have these buffs in a skill-based fighting game.

GireMeem
03-08-2017, 06:48 PM
There is no reason why these exist. Do people just want players to *** around the map to get unfair advantage buffs or fight an honest fight.

itsPlanB
03-08-2017, 06:52 PM
Here we go ... honorable spam ... yet again.

It's not hard folks.

1v1. No Gear. No Boots
2v2. No Gear. No Boosts
4v4. Elimination. Gear + Boosts
4v4. Skirmish. Gear + Boosts + Minions
4v4. Dominion. Gear - Boosts + Minions

Pick the one you like.


There is no reason why these exist. Do people just want players to *** around the map to get unfair advantage buffs or fight an honest fight.

Arclyte.
03-08-2017, 07:00 PM
ironic the guy defending these stupid boosts has a nobushi avatar

itsPlanB
03-08-2017, 07:04 PM
Care to explain why the Nobushi avatar makes my telling you and your friends to pick the game mode that suits you an issue?


ironic the guy defending these stupid boosts has a nobushi avatar

Giggley-puff
03-08-2017, 07:08 PM
the argument about how we can just play 1v1 or 2v2 is dumb. What if I want to play a fair game of 4v4s ? The more people, the more fun, but not when it's not about skill.

Arclyte.
03-08-2017, 07:18 PM
Care to explain why the Nobushi avatar makes my telling you and your friends to pick the game mode that suits you an issue?

tell me what boosts adds to 4v4, and why it is better with them than without

Hiero_Glyph
03-08-2017, 07:19 PM
There is no reason why these exist. Do people just want players to *** around the map to get unfair advantage buffs or fight an honest fight.

Adapt and overcome. The best players or those with the most boosts do not always win fights. My group regularly wins 4v4 matches and we are certainly not the most skilled players in the match. We simply use tactics to force outcomes that favor us. We rotate who is fighting ans who is getting buffs. We control the star power up so we can use our 4th ablities right away. We run away if the fight isn't in our favor or relocate to somewhere that is. And most importantly, we communicate so everyone knows what the current strategy is.

Prophit618
03-08-2017, 07:31 PM
First it's not in all 4v4 matches. It's only in Deathmatch (Skirmish and Elimination). You have the same opportunities to grab those boosts, and you have 3 other teammates there to help corner said player. Try some strategy instead of all the complaining.

You don't have the same opportunities to get the boosts. It often happens that even playing a far faster character (PK vs Shugoki for instance), they will be placed close enough to a boost to be able to grab it before you have any chance to catch up to them. And in this same situation it also happens that you have access to no boosts in your immediate vicinity aside from the other one.

As it happens, I agree with your second post, pick the mode you like. When you're forced into a mode you don't like, that sucks, but hope it gets done as fast as possible, or just don't do the order (looking at you skirmish orders).

Just saying, the current implementation of boosts means your opponent has a random chance of having a sudden advantage based on nothing more than a die roll. Doesn't seem balanced. Easily fixed too. Expand the time it takes to pick up a boost. Or guarantee spawn locations with equidistant boosts. Or space them out such that no starting positions are in quick reach of one so a slow trodding guy can't outrace the speed demons to them at the very beginning of the match.

Edit to Clarify: Only talking about 4v4 Elimination here. Skirmish actually has the boosts done right.

itsPlanB
03-08-2017, 07:34 PM
I like how you responded to me calling you out with a totally different question. After you answer my question I'll respond to this one.


tell me what boosts adds to 4v4, and why it is better with them than without

Oakleaf__Ranger
03-08-2017, 07:36 PM
I don't mind the boosts but they really need to make skirmish mode boosts similar to elimination modes where the boosts aren't immediately available at the start of the match. Also I think they need to change spawning positions so no character starts closer to a boost than another and/or change the boost locations. It is a 4v4 so you to be ready for number disadvantage a but seeing someone run away right at the start so they can a get boost constantly is so dumb. Essentially its a big killjoy seeing someone just run immediately for boosts when games start.

GireMeem
03-08-2017, 07:39 PM
Agreed that in Skirmish boosts are fine, but in Elimination when the round starts you or opponent can start running at the beginning and pick up boost thus so gaining an unfair advantage.

Dont see any reason why these should exist in this gamemode.

Turric4n666
03-08-2017, 07:39 PM
Honor or not, these buffs add nothing to the game and you are stupid if you do not run for a buff right away. Coming from a guy that always goes for a buff first.

itsPlanB
03-08-2017, 07:43 PM
You do. Random spawn points are just that. Random. Just because they plopped you down too far away from the "sprint boost" this time doesn't mean that they didn't stick you near it the next time. The boosts are always in the same place on the map, so if you wanted to get the "attack boost" and you didn't get it you know where it's at. You can loiter around and get it, or move off of it and go help a teammate out and come back to it. They're not assigned or predetermined as to who can get them.


You don't have the same opportunities to get the boosts. It often happens that even playing a far faster character (PK vs Shugoki for instance), they will be placed close enough to a boost to be able to grab it before you have any chance to catch up to them. And in this same situation it also happens that you have access to no boosts in your immediate vicinity aside from the other one.

RNGeezus isn't always going to work in your favor. That's kind of the life of the gamer is it not? Not sure how long you've been a gamer, but I've been a gamer for over 20 years and I can assure you that the RNG has been a fickle ***** to me just as often as they've been kind and generous to me. It happens. If you're upset about the RNGeezus putting your opponent closer to a goodie than you are, I'd say that's just your day in the barrel. You might get the next one.

Just saying, the current implementation of boosts means your opponent has a random chance of having a sudden advantage based on nothing more than a die roll. Doesn't seem balanced.

Again, the RNG was unkind this time. Next time it may smile upon you. It happens. Why spend so much time hating on the RNG spawn location? Move on. If you know your opponent is going to grab that attack buff, then know on the map that the defensive buff is "near the boat" and haul your butt there and get it. There is a strategy component that attaches to having or not having them. That is for sure.

This same situation it also happens that you have access to no boosts in your immediate vicinity aside from the other one.

itsPlanB
03-08-2017, 07:45 PM
Unfair how? Every map has more than one version of every single boost in the game. How is it unfair?


Agreed that in Skirmish boosts are fine, but in Elimination when the round starts you or opponent can start running at the beginning and pick up boost thus so gaining an
unfair advantage.

Dont see any reason why these should exist in this gamemode.

puzonyyx
03-08-2017, 07:48 PM
How it's unfair? Im a Conqeuror main and can't do anything while my Elimination opponent just turn back and run for buff. Why this **** is even in game? Who needs that?

Munktor
03-08-2017, 07:48 PM
If you ask me, Ubisoft has done more then enough by providing EVERY SINGLE MODE in the game a custom match option where the players can dictate which mechanics are active and which are not (even amount of damage done).

Turric4n666
03-08-2017, 07:50 PM
If you ask me, Ubisoft has done more then enough by providing EVERY SINGLE MODE in the game a custom match option where the players can dictate which mechanics are active and which are not (even amount of damage done).

the only reason there are enough people in elim and skirmish are orders. You could play that mode with friends that like it to or alone.. or you could make the mode actual fun.

itsPlanB
03-08-2017, 07:53 PM
So if I'm understanding you correctly. You don't like the character you chose.

You queued for the game mode fully knowing what was coming. You entered into an elimination match against 4 other players and there were going to be buffs available. You then got mad that someone else chose a faster character than you and you didn't get to the toy first?

That about sum it up?


How it's unfair? Im a Conqeuror main and can't do anything while my Elimination opponent just turn back and run for buff. Why this **** is even in game? Who needs that?

puzonyyx
03-08-2017, 07:59 PM
So if I'm understanding you correctly. You don't like the character you chose.

You queued for the game mode fully knowing what was coming. You entered into an elimination match against 4 other players and there were going to be buffs available. You then got mad that someone else chose a faster character than you and you didn't get to the toy first?

That about sum it up?

Nope. You crafted this theory minute ago and it's totally wrong. I bought this game to fight with people. So when i enter ANY mode I expect fighting. Not running, not chasing and not collecting things. It's not Mario Kart or something. Buffs are just unnecessary in Elimination and im sure mode would be better without them.

Prophit618
03-08-2017, 08:03 PM
RNGeezus isn't always going to work in your favor. That's kind of the life of the gamer is it not? Not sure how long you've been a gamer, but I've been a gamer for over 20 years and I can assure you that the RNG has been a fickle ***** to me just as often as they've been kind and generous to me. It happens. If you're upset about the RNGeezus putting your opponent closer to a goodie than you are, I'd say that's just your day in the barrel. You might get the next one.

I've been gaming for approximately that long myself, and i have no problems with RNG in games where RNG is supposed to be a factor. Heck, I'm a huge fan of CCGs and TCGs, which are hugely RNG based and I have no problem with them. But in arena games, RNG is usually taken out of the equation as much as possible. When there is an imbalance, it should be because you did something to earn that imbalance, and otherwise they should strive to start the playing field as level as possible.

They don't ruin my enjoyment of the mode, I actually rather enjoy 4v4 Elmination as it is, it's my second favorite mode behind Dominion. I just think they could make it even better by taking that RNG out of the equation. Removing the boosts altogether feels like overkill.

Edit: Having a "god am I that old" moment where I realize i've been gaming for closer to 30 years.

Turric4n666
03-08-2017, 08:07 PM
Itīs funny that people keep arguing that the game is the way it is and that we should deal with it when we donīt like it.

Wake up people. This is a forum, a place to have discussions and try to become better and give our feedback on how the game would be better. And yes, there is also a subforum for suggestions, but this forum is so badly designed that i rarely bother with switching categories. There is also room for improvement.

The game mode as it is right now is flawed: If you donīt go for a buff you are playing it not the optimal way. You canīt contest buffs properly because there are spawn locations that spawn you closer to a buff than your assigned oponent. Making it completely one sided advantageous.

itsPlanB
03-08-2017, 09:19 PM
You're the one complaining about your character not being able to get to things as fast as others and you're now saying that the theory is wrong. Feel free to enlighten me on exactly how my theory about your being upset about your character choice for that game mode is the issue.


Nope. You crafted this theory minute ago and it's totally wrong.

Are you saying that the boosts keep you from fighting people?

I bought this game to fight with people.

So in reading this, only in the elimination games you play in, people run around and collect boosts like Pokemon. There is no fighting. Just running around. That's interesting. I play elimination frequently and I see a whole lot of fighting.

So when i enter ANY mode I expect fighting. Not running, not chasing and not collecting things. It's not Mario Kart or something.

They're a core component of the game that now require you to have strategy. That guy that you were just wailing on now just picked up the health buff and he's now got more health than you. It changes the fight concept from just "me smash button" to I need to think about whats happening here and around me. It's called strategy. Elimination requires people to think. React. Change on the fly. That's what REAL fighting is about. It's the difference often times between success and failure.

Buffs are just unnecessary in Elimination and im sure mode would be better without them.

itsPlanB
03-08-2017, 09:23 PM
To be clear, I'm not arguing that. I'm not sure if that was at me but I'm going to respond. I'm saying that each game mode requires a different tactic and while you're free to evaluate the game mode, what you're not doing is actually getting better at the game mode. That is where my real issue lies with regards to people complaining about the boosts. They're there to provide a different type of strategy team game. They are an integral part of the 4v4 match up that is elimination. Its already bad enough that so many people want to turn elimination into 4 1v1 tournaments, and now we're upset about the buffs.

How about for just a bit those who say that they don't like it take a look at the strategy that goes into gathering the boosts and how to use them. Can one of your teammates gather them all or most of them to keep the opposing team from gathering them. Can your teammate take that health stop right before the guy you're chasing gets it. Vice versa, can he get to it and heal before you get there turning the tides of battle on you. They're a piece of the chess board and everyone wants to treat them like they're not a valuable commodity that requires some actual thought to use.

Its the Peackeeper moves to fast for me as a Shoguki so you should slow them down so I can hit them discussion.


Itīs funny that people keep arguing that the game is the way it is and that we should deal with it when we donīt like it.

Wake up people. This is a forum, a place to have discussions and try to become better and give our feedback on how the game would be better. And yes, there is also a subforum for suggestions, but this forum is so badly designed that i rarely bother with switching categories. There is also room for improvement.

The game mode as it is right now is flawed: If you donīt go for a buff you are playing it not the optimal way. You canīt contest buffs properly because there are spawn locations that spawn you closer to a buff than your assigned oponent. Making it completely one sided advantageous.

cragar212
03-08-2017, 09:24 PM
Nah l2p

MrForz
03-08-2017, 09:25 PM
You have the same opportunities to grab those boosts.

Nah. In some places a shield or damage boost spawns right behind some people, and those people are aware of it.

itsPlanB
03-08-2017, 09:26 PM
LOVE THIS RETORT! Cool. Lets talk spawn points and access to the boosts. I'm down for that. I agree that no one character should be closer to a boost than another, but I also understand that some days you're the windshield and some days you're the bug.


They don't ruin my enjoyment of the mode, I actually rather enjoy 4v4 Elmination as it is, it's my second favorite mode behind Dominion. I just think they could make it even better by taking that RNG out of the equation. Removing the boosts altogether feels like overkill.

Turric4n666
03-08-2017, 09:35 PM
To be clear, I'm not arguing that. I'm not sure if that was at me but I'm going to respond. I'm saying that each game mode requires a different tactic and while you're free to evaluate the game mode, what you're not doing is actually getting better at the game mode. That is where my real issue lies with regards to people complaining about the boosts. They're there to provide a different type of strategy team game. They are an integral part of the 4v4 match up that is elimination. Its already bad enough that so many people want to turn elimination into 4 1v1 tournaments, and now we're upset about the buffs.

How about for just a bit those who say that they don't like it take a look at the strategy that goes into gathering the boosts and how to use them. Can one of your teammates gather them all or most of them to keep the opposing team from gathering them. Can your teammate take that health stop right before the guy you're chasing gets it. Vice versa, can he get to it and heal before you get there turning the tides of battle on you. They're a piece of the chess board and everyone wants to treat them like they're not a valuable commodity that requires some actual thought to use.

Its the Peackeeper moves to fast for me as a Shoguki so you should slow them down so I can hit them discussion.

Iīd really love to argue with you as you make some good points, but your way of quoting is just disgusting. Last time now:

Iīd love to have strategy involved. However as it is now it doesnīt add strategic depth. you just HAVE to go for a buff. They should rework the game mode and everything would be fine.

Remove imbalanced starting positions, adjust the pickup times, make sword not one shoting people in revenge mode..
I like the one map where there is a sword right in the middle of two guys.