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Hogmin
03-02-2017, 07:27 PM
So, I'm just wondering where people got the idea of the "big 4", since there hasn't been many tournaments and stuff, but people are throwing the phrase out left and right as though the balance is set in stone already.

Fr0zeNHoBo
03-02-2017, 07:32 PM
So, I'm just wondering where people got the idea of the "big 4", since there hasn't been many tournaments and stuff, but people are throwing the phrase out left and right as though the balance is set in stone already.

Because those are the only viable classes at the tournament level.

Potato_6
03-02-2017, 07:39 PM
which classes?

suboptiml
03-02-2017, 07:42 PM
Because those are the only viable classes at the tournament level.

According to which tournaments?

Hogmin
03-02-2017, 07:43 PM
Because those are the only viable classes at the tournament level.

But that's a straight up lie.

A peacekeeper won a recent one and a Nobushi won one closer to release, too.

@Potato_6 Shugoki, Conqueror, Warlord, Warden I believe.

Potato_6
03-02-2017, 07:51 PM
ok thanks

PackingMoney
03-02-2017, 08:21 PM
The top 4 according to the community is Warden, Conq, Warlord and Shugoki.

Hogmin
03-02-2017, 08:37 PM
The top 4 according to the community is Warden, Conq, Warlord and Shugoki.

Surely the community is a bit of an inaccurate scale to measure them on...after all, the majority of players will be mediocre at best?

PackingMoney
03-02-2017, 08:38 PM
Surely the community is a bit of an inaccurate scale to measure them on...after all, the majority of players will be mediocre at best?

Well, its partly the community but also because a streamer labels these 4 characters as the top 4 due to their turtling abilities. I guess people just follow that opinion themselves.

Hogmin
03-02-2017, 08:39 PM
Well, its partly the community but also because a streamer labels these 4 characters as the top 4 due to their turtling abilities. I guess people just follow that opinion themselves.

Oh so this came from a streamer?
That's.. disappointing.

So it's basically ********, then, right? Unless this streamer has won several events in which case, whoops.

PackingMoney
03-02-2017, 08:47 PM
Oh so this came from a streamer?
That's.. disappointing.

So it's basically ********, then, right? Unless this streamer has won several events in which case, whoops.

Its not all lies as he is very good at the game, and has played with a lot of the people in the tournaments. However, he hasn't actually playing in any tournaments himself yet as he doesn't think the game is competitive ready yet due to it not being fully balanced.

Hogmin
03-02-2017, 08:48 PM
Its not all lies as he is very good at the game, and has played with a lot of the people in the tournaments. However, he hasn't actually playing in any tournaments himself yet as he doesn't think the game is competitive ready yet due to it not being fully balanced.

ehhh it still seems like a stretch, to be honest.
but that's just my opinion. Thanks for clarifying, anyways

PackingMoney
03-02-2017, 08:52 PM
ehhh it still seems like a stretch, to be honest.
but that's just my opinion. Thanks for clarifying, anyways

No worries. He does play at a high level where his opinions are somewhat showing in his gameplay. You should watch a bit of the stream or you can check his youtube (Tru3Ta1ent for both) because he uploads the highlights of the day. You will see what he means when he says these are the top 4.

itsPlanB
03-02-2017, 08:54 PM
Who is the streamer that you're referencing? I'd like to go see what he's saying.


Its not all lies as he is very good at the game, and has played with a lot of the people in the tournaments. However, he hasn't actually playing in any tournaments himself yet as he doesn't think the game is competitive ready yet due to it not being fully balanced.

PackingMoney
03-02-2017, 08:55 PM
Who is the streamer that you're referencing? I'd like to go see what he's saying.

Tru3Ta1ent

Kharneth88
03-02-2017, 09:08 PM
Gaming has become so annoying ever since streamers started talking about **** and making people believe their opinions are fact.

I'm so sick of how every game I play has a couple streamers who everyone flocks around and quotes as if they're some god who knows it all. They post videos of themselves playing video games on youtube and twitch, who ****ing cares. Some are good at the game, some aren't, but even the ones who are good don't necessarily know what they're talking about in terms of balance just because they're good at the game. FFS.

PackingMoney
03-02-2017, 09:25 PM
Gaming has become so annoying ever since streamers started talking about **** and making people believe their opinions are fact.

I'm so sick of how every game I play has a couple streamers who everyone flocks around and quotes as if they're some god who knows it all. They post videos of themselves playing video games on youtube and twitch, who ****ing cares. Some are good at the game, some aren't, but even the ones who are good don't necessarily know what they're talking about in terms of balance just because they're good at the game. FFS.

The game is far from balanced though.

lNogardl
03-03-2017, 12:23 AM
So... everyone here is denying that those chars are top 4? If you're a god at defending and you use those characters while being safe as hell and do no risky moves, your opponent can't do CRAP. They won't fall for feints hence not being parried, they will counter guard break every time, and they will wait until you make the slightest mistake to punish you (warlord, shugoki and conqueror). The Warden will just do Warden things and make you gamble.

This is the lamest type of gameplay but almost unbeatable.

PackingMoney
03-03-2017, 12:29 AM
So... everyone here is denying that those chars are top 4? If you're a god at defending and you use those characters while being safe as hell and do no risky moves, your opponent can't do CRAP. They won't fall for feints hence not being parried, they will counter guard break every time, and they will wait until you make the slightest mistake to punish you (warlord, shugoki and conqueror). The Warden will just do Warden things and make you gamble.

This is the lamest type of gameplay but almost unbeatable.

I am agreeing with these characters being top 4, as the streamer as was talking about before goes into detail of why, which consists of all the reasons you said above too.

wethebishop
03-03-2017, 12:32 AM
The tournament I saw had a Warden who barely beat a PK in the semis, and then the Warden went on to the finals and lost to a Nobushi.

PackingMoney
03-03-2017, 12:36 AM
The tournament I saw had a Warden who barely beat a PK in the semis, and then the Warden went on to the finals and lost to a Nobushi.

I haven't seen that one but the other day there was reporting of 3 warlords winning tourney in a raw, whilst one of the finals was 2 warlords.

PanzerShrekonin
03-03-2017, 12:39 AM
Lol @ Conquerer being actually really good. -Snort- Conq is mediocre at best. You learn the timing and you parry the slow bastard all day every day.


This is from a conq player who has a 85% winrate and a 3.5 KDA.

PanzerShrekonin
03-03-2017, 01:29 AM
So... everyone here is denying that those chars are top 4? If you're a god at defending and you use those characters while being safe as hell and do no risky moves, your opponent can't do CRAP. They won't fall for feints hence not being parried, they will counter guard break every time, and they will wait until you make the slightest mistake to punish you (warlord, shugoki and conqueror). The Warden will just do Warden things and make you gamble.

This is the lamest type of gameplay but almost unbeatable.

So if no one attacks each other, its too turtles doing nothing. xD

wethebishop
03-03-2017, 01:41 AM
The problem is the conqueror doesn't need to attack. His shield bash is completely safe: even if they dodge, you still can block their follow up attacks. He can repeatedly do a shield bash into a light attack.

PanzerShrekonin
03-03-2017, 01:42 AM
The problem is the conqueror doesn't need to attack. His shield bash is completely safe: even if they dodge, you still can block their follow up attacks. He can repeatedly do a shield bash into a light attack.

I mean they can just dodge the shield bash... eventually they will have an opening. Plus you have people like valk or orochi or anyone with a side step attack that completely nullify that "Safe" shield bash. lol


Conq once parried is useless. Slow characters blow in the game because its a fighting game. Slow will never be good.

wethebishop
03-03-2017, 01:50 AM
I mean they can just dodge the shield bash... eventually they will have an opening. Plus you have people like valk or orochi or anyone with a side step attack that completely nullify that "Safe" shield bash. lol


Conq once parried is useless. Slow characters blow in the game because its a fighting game. Slow will never be good.

The devs have already said that the conqueror and warlord are being looked at for nerfs

PanzerShrekonin
03-03-2017, 01:52 AM
The devs have already said that the conqueror and warlord are being looked at for nerfs

The devs also wont nerf the Peacekeeper. lol.


I really dont trust Devs to do anything right in any game. The only devs that I've liked are the Witcher 3 Devs or the Devs for the Civilization games.((Yes 6 is a disaster but if Civ 5 is any indication, once all the DLCs come out the game will be fixed and be made into am asterpeice))

secrecy274
03-03-2017, 01:55 AM
The devs have already said that the conqueror and warlord are being looked at for nerfs

Warlord I can understand, but why Conq?

PackingMoney
03-03-2017, 01:58 AM
The devs also wont nerf the Peacekeeper. lol.


I really dont trust Devs to do anything right in any game. The only devs that I've liked are the Witcher 3 Devs or the Devs for the Civilization games.((Yes 6 is a disaster but if Civ 5 is any indication, once all the DLCs come out the game will be fixed and be made into am asterpeice))

They did nerf PK a little tbf, they brought her stab damage down from 45 to 36.

Varicose_Veins
03-03-2017, 02:00 AM
A couple of things:

1. True Talent has played in a pairs tournament. The event had around 350 participants and he and iSkys made the final 8. He'd play others but they're usually on at a late time for him.

The guy is credible and has a high reputation across many fight games.

2. The thing about the Top 4 is not just the fact they win the most, it's also the cheesy spam/vortex attacks and free attacks/damage they can do compared to the other 8.

PanzerShrekonin
03-03-2017, 02:02 AM
They did nerf PK a little tbf, they brought her stab damage down from 45 to 36.


Yes but that didn't really solve the issue that she IS defintely a top 5 character. Probably top 3.

PanzerShrekonin
03-03-2017, 02:15 AM
Speaking of balance, what do you do against the Wardens shoulderbash vortex? If it wasn't for the cancel into guard break, i'd be perfectly balanced... but as it is, you can't dodge it safely. Is the only option to break Lock and roll away? That doesn't do anything right? I mean all it does is drain your own stamina, working for the Warden... So what do you do?

Not many wardens I fight know what they are doing but god damn the shoulderbash is really broken xD

PackingMoney
03-03-2017, 02:17 AM
There isn't any punish for it either, which is why warden is considered to be in top 4 atm.

PanzerShrekonin
03-03-2017, 02:23 AM
There isn't any punish for it either, which is why warden is considered to be in top 4 atm.

Ah. See THAT needs to change. Remove the guard break cancel. Boom fixed.

But I really dont see why conq is being nerfed... but that just means never play him ever again...


ive been playing valk lately anyway.

PackingMoney
03-03-2017, 02:27 AM
Ah. See THAT needs to change. Remove the guard break cancel. Boom fixed.

But I really dont see why conq is being nerfed... but that just means never play him ever again...


ive been playing valk lately anyway.

I can;t wait for the patch to come to consoles, Valk looks amazing to use now, and she is my style too.

wethebishop
03-03-2017, 02:35 AM
Speaking of balance, what do you do against the Wardens shoulderbash vortex? If it wasn't for the cancel into guard break, i'd be perfectly balanced... but as it is, you can't dodge it safely. Is the only option to break Lock and roll away? That doesn't do anything right? I mean all it does is drain your own stamina, working for the Warden... So what do you do?

Not many wardens I fight know what they are doing but god damn the shoulderbash is really broken xD

It's not a vortex like people say: it's a 50/50. You have to guess. If you dodge and they cancel into a grab, then you get grabbed. If you dodge and they don't cancel, then you're free. If you stand still and they hit you with the shoulder, then they get a free hit. If you stand still and they cancel into guard break, then you can just counter the guard break.

Guard break counters dodge. Dodge counters shoulder bash. It's just a guessing game.

Usually I let myself get hit by the shoulder bash, expecting them to cancel it. When they do cancel, I just counter the guard break and I am free.

PanzerShrekonin
03-03-2017, 02:38 AM
I can;t wait for the patch to come to consoles, Valk looks amazing to use now, and she is my style too.

Valk is alot of fun. Im enjoying myself. She's slightly awkward and let me give you some advice. DO NOT use the legsweep after a combo. If they dodge it, its a free guardbreak or a heavy. Its like the Shugokis backbreaker but worse. Only use it after a guard break but... honestly just never use the leg sweep.


if you guardbreak you get a free overhead heavy so... yea. Just dont use the leg sweep unless you are mixing your combos up. THATS fine. but just dont only do the legsweep... other than that, work on your deflects and get that nice bleed. :)

PackingMoney
03-03-2017, 02:40 AM
Valk is alot of fun. Im enjoying myself. She's slightly awkward and let me give you some advice. DO NOT use the legsweep after a combo. If they dodge it, its a free guardbreak or a heavy. Its like the Shugokis backbreaker but worse. Only use it after a guard break but... honestly just never use the leg sweep.


if you guardbreak you get a free overhead heavy so... yea. Just dont use the leg sweep unless you are mixing your combos up. THATS fine. but just dont only do the legsweep... other than that, work on your deflects and get that nice bleed. :)

Yeah, I have been watching True play and will likely play in a similar way as he always seems to make optimal plays.

PanzerShrekonin
03-03-2017, 02:45 AM
Yeah, I have been watching True play and will likely play in a similar way as he always seems to make optimal plays.

No idea who he is but i never watch streamers in the first place. I have no interest in watching someone else play.

Danioku
03-03-2017, 02:55 AM
Speaking of balance, what do you do against the Wardens shoulderbash vortex? If it wasn't for the cancel into guard break, i'd be perfectly balanced... but as it is, you can't dodge it safely. Is the only option to break Lock and roll away? That doesn't do anything right? I mean all it does is drain your own stamina, working for the Warden... So what do you do?

Not many wardens I fight know what they are doing but god damn the shoulderbash is really broken xD

You should NEVER dodge a Shoullder Bash unless you are playing a char with an attack animation dodge (orochi, zerk, kensei, pk ecc.. there are many).

Take the shoulder bash, take the light side attack, then use your fastest light attack to stop the second (eventual) Shoulder Bash. End of the story of this so called op vortex. At the end it's just a trade of light attacks. This is how it works and it always works. Stand still and be prepared to use your fast light at the right moment. If you stand you can even tech the eventual GB or stop it as well with your light.

There's nothing op in this. If you need to reposition/reset the fight instead, you can just roll away. Side dodging a Shoulder Bash without a char with dodge attack animation means GB + Heavy always.

Obviously things changes if you are out of stamina, so better keep an eye on it.

I tell you as a warden 10+ Rep one trick pony