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View Full Version : Assassins are not the problem, this on the other hand.



Zicasius
03-01-2017, 10:10 AM
Enforcing environmental kills in a in depth melee game such as for honor.
The incredibly small duel & brawl maps are the absolute worst.

This masterfully crafted video shows precisely why,

Url:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EHuZO5gDyE&

Delectable_Sin
03-01-2017, 10:18 AM
Absolutely agree.

Zordrage
03-01-2017, 10:29 AM
https://youtu.be/MWiCmJKC0YQ?t=43s

yep agree

AKosse1996
03-01-2017, 10:59 AM
Enforcing environmental kills in a in depth melee game such as for honor.
The incredibly small duel & brawl maps are the absolute worst.

This masterfully crafted video shows precisely why,

Url:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EHuZO5gDyE&

you know whats even more funny? that if you look at the yt-name how uploadet the video and the ubisoft name of this warlord...it is you

so complaining about enviromental kills while spamming enviromental kills isnt this kinda....hypocritical:confused:

Zicasius
03-01-2017, 11:03 AM
you know whats even more funny? that if you look at the yt-name how uploadet the video and the ubisoft name of this warlord...it is you

so complaining about enviromental kills while spamming enviromental kills isnt this kinda....hypocritical:confused:

Can't beat the system? Join it.

Recpit
03-01-2017, 11:04 AM
Especially in those maps, where you just have one choice, throw him off the cliff (bridge and so on) and even the fact that some classes are more advantaged over others such as warlord and shugoki...

Zordrage
03-01-2017, 11:06 AM
you know whats even more funny? that if you look at the yt-name how uploadet the video and the ubisoft name of this warlord...it is you

so complaining about enviromental kills while spamming enviromental kills isnt this kinda....hypocritical:confused:

No not realy..... its a Sure win and its in the game ... right now either you knock down someone or you get knocked down into something.

if you go in a Ring for a boxing match and they throw in 2 iron pipes on the floor because the people want to see blood and your oponent picks it up to beat you to peaces with it wouldont you also pick it up and use it to survive and win then complain that this is ******** its not Box ? or you would stand there getting beaten half death with an iron pipe saying that i AAint using it because its hypocrit to Complain about it if you use it ?

teksuo1
03-01-2017, 11:09 AM
i say keep it as it is.

Warhammer online mmo was fun when we could push all mobs in the ditches ; game died slowly after they changed it.

i'm 99% sure this game would be a lot less entertaining without the cliff kills. it's part of the strategy, not to hang close do a ditch unless you plan something with it.

Zordrage
03-01-2017, 11:13 AM
i say keep it as it is.

Warhammer online mmo was fun when we could push all mobs in the ditches ; game died slowly after they changed it.

i'm 99% sure this game would be a lot less entertaining without the cliff kills. it's part of the strategy, not to hang close do a ditch unless you plan something with it.

1: we dont want it totaly removed but it NEEDS to be reduced there are simply too many places where people can knock eatchother for free instakill

2: hard to stay away from Cliffs and holes and spikes when they are everywhere arround points you need to cap/take while characters have abilities that can Knock,Throw,Push you 50000 miles in a direction......

Knight_Raime
03-01-2017, 11:15 AM
-shrug- I hate environmental kills as much as the next person. However once you actually get into the high tier bracket of players they typically avoid going for environment kills and using revenge. So really the only thing you can do is get good enough to reach that point. or learn to accept that it's going to happen. and do your best to avoid it.

teksuo1
03-01-2017, 11:18 AM
don't accept to fight next to the cliff, use you sprint and locate the fight wherever you want?

it's part of the game, don't be surprised if you get thrown off when you were casually inviting the situation.

assassins AND cliffs are both alright!

Zicasius
03-01-2017, 11:21 AM
-shrug- I hate environmental kills as much as the next person. However once you actually get into the high tier bracket of players they typically avoid going for environment kills and using revenge. So really the only thing you can do is get good enough to reach that point. or learn to accept that it's going to happen. and do your best to avoid it.

You cannot deny some maps being small enough to be able to block you from any escape. It completely defeats the game's point, intense 1 on 1 dueling based on skill.

Knight_Raime
03-01-2017, 11:48 AM
You cannot deny some maps being small enough to be able to block you from any escape. It completely defeats the game's point, intense 1 on 1 dueling based on skill.

yeah there are a few. I feel like they are there to be like the rest of the game. the game is very thematic. moves are actually mocapped with "stage." meaning these would be the type of moves you'd see when watching a play or maybe a movie. so a 1v1 duel to the death on a narrow bridge is very thematic. and that's probably what they were going for.

Sky-Sweeper
03-01-2017, 12:01 PM
For me it depends on the class I'm playing. If I'm a warden or a kensei? Sure I'll avoid the pitfalls. But if I'm a lawbringer? His whole kit is based on pushing people around, and his regular attacks are so slow that people dodge them without issue, so yeah I'm gonna take advantage of the environment on him because that's the only way the playing field is even.

The_B0G_
03-01-2017, 12:05 PM
For duels and brawls... ok I understand(the bridge map is really bad for environmental kills) but environmental kills help people from getting ganked in 4v4, I got attacked by 3 people with my LB once and I was in an area with cliffs and spikes around me.

I right away dodged a shugoki charge and threw him into spikes, defended the other two for a few hits and shoved one who was close to the edge and then threw him over, then fought the last guy 1v1 and executed him.

Thats why they should keep these kills and what they were designed for, if you're 1v1, it's pretty easy to avoid these.

Warlord throws are pretty OP but once they fix GB counter hopefully it won't be too bad.

TheBadMan_
03-01-2017, 12:07 PM
Enforcing environmental kills in a in depth melee game such as for honor.
The incredibly small duel & brawl maps are the absolute worst.

This masterfully crafted video shows precisely why,

Url:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EHuZO5gDyE&

You understand that simple LPM spam negates that issue? BUt hey ure a skilles grab scrub as ur oponents are... what do you care bout lreaming to play.

EvaDenVille
03-01-2017, 12:13 PM
This game would have been so much more fun to play and more skill based had they only removed Revenge nonsense and the throwing people off every small hole, even if you hit 10cm water you instant die like at the Shipyard duel map. Beyond ridiculous.

Gray360UK
03-01-2017, 01:40 PM
Way too many of the people in that video shouldn't have been fighting in those locations.
Totally avoidable.

This is For Honor 101.
Step 1. Be aware of your environment and how close you are to any ledges.
Step 2. If you are close to a ledge, move, do not engage your enemy under any circumstances.

Showing a video full of idiots falling for the oldest trick in the book doesn't prove there is a problem.
At least not with the environment :p

Gray360UK
03-01-2017, 01:42 PM
You cannot deny some maps being small enough to be able to block you from any escape. It completely defeats the game's point, intense 1 on 1 dueling based on skill.

That is not the games point.
1 vs 1 Duel consistently has the lowest activity in the game.
Dominion, probably what you think of as a cheesy gankfest, consistently has the highest activity in the game.
There is no honour.
This is not Duel Simulator 2017.
The sooner this myth is dispelled and people wake up to the reality of what this game is, the sooner confused people will stop having such a problem with it.

Mathonn
03-01-2017, 01:54 PM
The environmental kills don't need reduced, the fight location needs expanded or changed for duels and brawls.

m0u-1337
03-01-2017, 01:55 PM
OP: Are you not scared of using the nazi flag?

Beneathar
03-01-2017, 02:10 PM
Actually everybody knows the mighty throwlord, and nobody likes him.

But i dont really want to get rid of environmental kills. Yes, its bad if you get to smoebody who solely relies on this and throws people around like hell, but that doesnt really make the system bad.

What I want to suggest is having more duel maps where this is impossible or at least unlikely to happen, because its annoving to stand on a small bridge with a throwlord or a run-run-goki.

So i only care about this in duel modes, just make more duel Maps where you cant be thrown off the cliff and the problem would be solved for me.

Agent Talon
03-01-2017, 02:38 PM
I wonder how much of a difference it would make if you couldn't change direction of the throw after GB? At least then you would have to have a solid line on the edge to pull this off. So many of those kills had the WL GB and then shift direction, which makes positioning almost needless being you have a free adjustment time frame before the throw.

Gray360UK
03-01-2017, 02:46 PM
I wonder how much of a difference it would make if you couldn't change direction of the throw after GB? At least then you would have to have a solid line on the edge to pull this off. So many of those kills had the WL GB and then shift direction, which makes positioning almost needless being you have a free adjustment time frame before the throw.

Really good point and a really simple way to make avoiding hazards so much easier.
I mean if you are dumb enough to stand with your back to a ledge that's your fault.
As it stands you can be carefully positioning yourself so that ledges, holes and spikes are not behind you but then you'll get thrown in a direction that makes that pointless.
So yeah, only solution now is to fight absolutely nowhere near them.
This idea should be posted as a new thread in the Suggestions and Feedback forum imho, although I don't know if it would realistically do any good.
Worth a try maybe.

Zicasius
03-01-2017, 03:05 PM
OP: Are you not scared of using the nazi flag?

It is not a nazi flag.
It is the flag of the german empire, the 2nd reich. The predecessor of Nazi Germany.
Not relatable in any way.

Aurockson
03-01-2017, 03:12 PM
honour honor


which is it??? Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Gray360UK
03-01-2017, 03:18 PM
which is it??? Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Haha, I try to stick to honour when I am typing because that is the English (correct) spelling of the word (imo) not the American version of it.
Obviously if refering to the games title I feel forced to use Honor, but am not happy about it, lol :D

ThePollie
03-01-2017, 04:23 PM
Actually everybody knows the mighty throwlord, and nobody likes him.

But i dont really want to get rid of environmental kills. Yes, its bad if you get to smoebody who solely relies on this and throws people around like hell, but that doesnt really make the system bad.

What I want to suggest is having more duel maps where this is impossible or at least unlikely to happen, because its annoving to stand on a small bridge with a throwlord or a run-run-goki.

So i only care about this in duel modes, just make more duel Maps where you cant be thrown off the cliff and the problem would be solved for me.

It is a problem for balance, though. There are too many duel maps with frequent environmental kills, and some of them have one every few feet and are utterly unavoidable. Especially against a hero capable of hyper-turtling, this makes any offense whatsoever a sure way to be parried and thrown off. Now add that he can bash-spam with virtually no punish and that not all heroes have a throw that can go far enough to reliable punish him back with the same stuff, and you get a situation where player A has to play solid for five moves, and the warlord just has to spam and get it right once.

That's not fun.

Pope138
03-01-2017, 04:41 PM
Environmental kills rule. They're easy enough to avoid. Anytime I'm thrown off a ledge or hurled into spikes I instantly identify it as my mistake for not being aware of my surroundings.

Zicasius
03-01-2017, 07:54 PM
Environmental kills rule. They're easy enough to avoid. Anytime I'm thrown off a ledge or hurled into spikes I instantly identify it as my mistake for not being aware of my surroundings.


Ofcourse but getting thrown into said spikes or cliff by a maxed out throw distance warlord destroys the point. It doesn't matter where you are, one you get parried you're done for.

Delectable_Sin
03-01-2017, 07:57 PM
-shrug- I hate environmental kills as much as the next person. However once you actually get into the high tier bracket of players they typically avoid going for environment kills and using revenge. So really the only thing you can do is get good enough to reach that point. or learn to accept that it's going to happen. and do your best to avoid it.

Yeah, on Duel, most players retreat to even footing, and will not engage on a bridge, but just let the time run out. As long as you're in the upper bracket anyway.