View Full Version : Community Poll: Game, Sim, or Both?

04-01-2004, 08:16 PM

04-01-2004, 08:16 PM
To you, what is IL-2/FB/AEP?

Discussion below encouraged.

04-01-2004, 08:32 PM
To me its a sim and a game, but mostly game. Its a wonderful achievement and worth every penny but 10 years from now those of us still involved will look back just like we do now...and smile.


04-01-2004, 10:01 PM
Both, because that will help tons with the life of the game and will recruit more community members, while still being accurate enough for the average simmer.


04-01-2004, 11:03 PM
A Sim is by definition a kind of game.

04-02-2004, 10:20 AM
Its an accurate simulation, although it is JUST A GAME too, which many people seem to forget while playing online.......


04-02-2004, 10:43 AM
It is a light simulation, because physical settings (most PC users don't have a closed cockpit mounted on moving struts) and mechanics (instruments, procedures) are limited. Why are they limited? Well physical constraints for the former, and the fact that it is also a game for the latter. Yes, it is a game because it is made for enjoyment.

Still with me? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

So, it's both a simulation and a game IMO.


04-02-2004, 11:13 AM
Hey Stiglr!!!??

With the announcement of Pacific Fighters, I guess Target Rabaul is pretty much a dead!

I played Target Rabaul. Totally inferior to FB in every way!!! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

04-02-2004, 11:29 AM
No way. Targetware's flight model is head and shoulders better than this one. IL-2/FB/AEP has the edge in graphics *only*. Great if all you want is a GAME. But if you want a good SIM, IL-2/FB/AEP falls utterly flat. And Pacific Fighters will be more of the same: "looks great, less (ful)filling".

Sounds to me, espo, like you went and "tried" Targetware thinking you could do the same no-energy bleed bat-turns and stand-on-your-nose crap you can do here, and got your butt handed to you by the Zero pilots over there who know what they're doing.

04-02-2004, 11:34 AM
Boy, Yous dont know what you talkin bout. I never fly allied!

Idiot!!! I don't know why Ivan does'nt ban you! Go back to TR.!

"Fatte vede che ridemo!"http://www.flying-tigers.net/caccia%20WW%20II/g50.jpg

04-02-2004, 11:55 AM
Its a way of life. An addiction. An obsession. A simulation. A game. A mistress. A lover.
All things to all men.

04-02-2004, 12:31 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gifThat is the great thing in this game/sim - a wide range of settings which can suit most of simmers. You can play it the way You want and in any case it will give You lot of fun which is important to me.I'm not online simmer but have many of flying sims in my collection ( EAW , CFS 1 & 2 , B-17 MIGHTY 8TH , Falcon IV , F-16 ; GUNSHIP ; WARBIRDS ..)- not one gives me such feeling like IL-2 series. Iknow that there is lot of things that hardcore simmers can complain about but overall it is great ( it is like one remark I read in one book about P-51 - there were better climbers, there were better turners, some planes have had better ammarment but Mustang was probbably the best allaround fighter of WW II )-for me it is same with Il-2 simms series.
Regards to all

04-02-2004, 01:41 PM
Id have to go with sim.. when I think of games I think of Starfox,Afterburner and Crimson Skies. This morning an AI pilot stalled out and crashed trying to avoid me because his control surface were damaged.... games usually dont do that. Either you down them after multiple hits or they down you.. but this is the only sim where i have seen that kind of stuff.

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04-02-2004, 01:44 PM
Well, espo, I can't imagine you not doing better in a Zero in Targetware if you understand what a Zero is about.

More likely, you didn't get your stick setup properly calibrated? Or, you tried tooling around at 100% in a Zero and couldn't keep the nose down. Solution: lower RPMs, possibly even dropping down to lean, a goodly amount of trim, and flying at a lower throttle setting. And watch those "power dives".

At any rate, as I said before, the Zero against its adversaries in Target:Rabaul (http://www.targetware.net) is *amazingly* lifelike. Frustrating when the Wildcat and P40 pilots can dive and roll and stay *just* out of your gunsight....while you struggle with stiffening controls and just know that he might be dragging you towards a wingman for a head-on Thach Weave facefull of .50 cal.

04-02-2004, 11:06 PM
An interesting question with some interesting viewpoints so far.

In my view there are two aspects to be considered:

Firstly, think of the hardware and software involved and what it does. A computer, monitor and input devices combined with IL2/FB/AEP software allows the "participant" to place him/herself in a virtual cockpit and provides a representation of most aspects flight: ability to start, taxy, take-off, climb, cruise, descend and land. You can fly on instruments, fly formation, fly AA and AG combat, navigate etc. You can stall and spin (and recover); and the device will present you with emergency situations. You have control over flaps, gear, weapons etc. To me, this means I am operating a FLIGHT SIMULATOR.

The other aspect for consideration is the purpose for which the participant uses the flight sim. This determines whether he/her is a "GAMER" or a "SIMMER" (what's a good word for the more serious participant?). If you just want to play 'shoot-em-up' style, without challenges and just enjoying the moment; then you are a GAMER. If you are are using the device for more 'noble' challenges (learning to fly, learning about aircraft systems and characteristics, devising tactics, honing skills etc) you have a different mindset to the GAMER and you are a SIMMER. The good thing is, you can be a GAMER one day and a SIMMER the next; or even go from gamer to simmer during a session.

To sum up, your hardware set-up combined with IL2 software is a true flight simulator. However, it is versatile so that you, the participant, can use it either as a gaming machine (GAMER) or as a flight/combat flight simulator (SIMMER).

04-02-2004, 11:11 PM
The answer depends on mindset. As an entertainment form, it's a great game and I thoroughly enjoy it as a source of entertainment.

As a simulation (ie: a means of simulating real life events and objects in order to gain a better understanding of those events without having direct access to them) it isn't perfect, but used with an appreciation for its limitations a great deal of insight into WW2 air combat can be gained from IL2/FB.

I've flown IL2 and FB for both reasons, sometimes specifically one or the other, sometimes with both in mind. I find it serves both purposes well within the limits of current PC technology.



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