PDA

View Full Version : IL-2FB ACE add on pack-jet to jet combat pure fantasy



VonLuger
01-26-2004, 09:41 AM
What do you guys think about latest screen shots.. I dont believe there were jet to jet combat in WWII and we always praise the realism OF IL-2fb is this add on taking the game to a "Fantasy" level and moving out of the realism-what next F-15's???..

VonLuger
01-26-2004, 09:41 AM
What do you guys think about latest screen shots.. I dont believe there were jet to jet combat in WWII and we always praise the realism OF IL-2fb is this add on taking the game to a "Fantasy" level and moving out of the realism-what next F-15's???..

necrobaron
01-26-2004, 09:43 AM
Uh oh.......

Capt.LoneRanger
01-26-2004, 09:45 AM
That was infact my first reaction.

But then, hey, you can do some nice "WhatIf?" missions with those planes and, hey, don't forget only a few LA7s saw battle in WW2, cause they were delivered too late.


greets
Capt.LoneRanger

http://www.cptloneranger.privat.t-online.de/SIG2.jpg

BaldieJr
01-26-2004, 09:45 AM
!!!!! OMFG THE SKY IS FALLING !!!!!

Don't fly the planes you don't like.

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
______ _____
(, / ) /) /) , (, /
/---( _ // _(/ _ / __ ,""""]
+----/ ____)(_(_(/_(_(__(__(/____/__/ (__--------,' /---+
| / ( / ,' NR / |
|(_/ ..-""``"'-._ (_/ __,' 42 _/ |
+-.-"" "-..,____________/7,.--"" __]-----+

</pre>

blabla0001
01-26-2004, 09:46 AM
http://www.fat.co.uk/model/shelter.html

Obi_Kwiet
01-26-2004, 09:47 AM
I think the the jets will be cool. I prety sure that there were some jet vs.jet dog fights, so if you don't like it don' buy it. Its very simpel realy.

Obi_Kwiet
01-26-2004, 09:49 AM
WOW! Three people posted in the time that I posted! Thats a first!

Bearcat99
01-26-2004, 12:44 PM
AS lpong as the DMs and FMs are just as good as the rest of the planes whats your beef?

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>http://www.jodavidsmeyer.com/combat/bookstore/tuskegeebondposter.jpg (http://tuskegeeairmen.org/airmen/who.html)[/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>vflyer@comcast.net [/list]<UL TYPE=SQUARE>99thPursuit Squadron IL2 Forgotten Battles (http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat)[/list]
UDQMG (http://www.uberdemon.com/index2.html) | HYPERLOBBY (http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz/) | IL2 Manager (http://www.checksix-fr.com/bibliotheque/detail_fichier.php?ID=1353) | MUDMOVERS (http://www.mudmovers.com/)

p1ngu666
01-26-2004, 12:53 PM
that there uber, and one arrived late

tttiger
01-26-2004, 01:03 PM
Geeze, Bearcat, they never were there (despite poster who is "sure" jets fought jets). How about an F-16 if the model is good? That's a pretty lame criteria. And you're usually one of the most sensible posters in here. Guess we have to disagree on this one...

I'm sure Gibbage did a nice job on it (and I'm sure I'll probably try it out of curiosity and since I will have paid for it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif but it's for arcaders only.

If we're spreading to the Pacific the effort would better have been spent on a Hellcat or a Corsair IMHO.

Fantasy is the polite word for it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

Jirozaemon
01-26-2004, 01:05 PM
The first dogfights between jets took place over the korean peninsula in late 1950 or early 1951 (MIG 15 vs. F-80).

Check this out...

http://home.att.net/~C.C.Jordan/Korea.html

An encounter P 80 vs. Me 262 or Meteor vs. Me 262 never occured. And more important: The Me 262 was designed to kill heavy bombers by superior firepower (4x30mm MK 108 in the nose + 24 R4M Rockets under the wings), but not to go after smaller (jet)fighters.

Regards

Jiro

VW-IceFire
01-26-2004, 01:06 PM
The AEP will be a entertaining package with all sorts of new aircraft possibilities from what "what-if" to the stark historical realities. We get both...

Server admins will no doubt have the choice to restrict aircraft as necessary to maintain their own aspirations of balance. Some jet servers may also emerge. Had the war gone on for another year there would definately have been jet-jet combat.

http://home.cogeco.ca/~cczerneda/sigs/temp_sig1.jpg
The New IL2 Database is Coming Soon!

Korolov
01-26-2004, 02:23 PM
Did you ever happen to notice we're getting about 3 jets and the rest being props?

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/newsig1.jpg

BeoWolf_361stFG
01-26-2004, 02:29 PM
I have made some great post WWII/pre cold war coop missions using jets. It will be neat to make somemore using different planes. Imagination is the key to enjoying the new planes. (biatchin) about em is folly, they are coming, use em or not... Develop your own DF maps without them, and coops without them.. that way you are satisfied all around.. Viola... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/crazy.gif

TooCooL34
01-26-2004, 03:38 PM
Imagine you're in Korea.
Fight in Korean War style.

It's not that different from late prop plane dogfight style, and still exciting.

Anyway where is my Korean War sim? This is real Forgotten Battles. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif

tttiger
01-26-2004, 04:09 PM
BeoWolf:

LOL! A viola is a stringed instrument a bit larger than a violin. I think you meant voila http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I always enjoy flying Coops with ya, BW, and you write some really good ones. But if I see P-80s in 'em and you notice I quietly leave, you'll know why.

This post-war fantasy stuff is pure crap. And Oleg seems to have made a commitment to it -- with BIG dollar signs in his eyes.

Pity. He used to be really dedicated to accuracy and realism.

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."

Platypus_1.JaVA
01-26-2004, 04:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
I think the the jets will be cool. I prety sure that there were some jet vs.jet dog fights, so if you don't like it don' buy it. Its very simpel realy.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm pretty confident sure that it did not happen.

The Jerries had the Me-262 wich was trying to pick at the massive B-17 formations. It is also rumored that the Me-262 was the first to break the sound barrier. There is little evidence, no proof and the Germans lost the war so, this is not a well-known fact.

The brits had their Gloster Meteors (inferior airframe but, superior engines to the Me-262) and kept them in Brittain only to engage the V-1 Buzz bombs.

The Americans sended two of their brand new P-80 jets to Italy for testing purposes only, somewhere early 1945. I think they arrived february or march.


Oh well, I'm sure that plenty servers will ban the jet-fighters, just like the Me-262 is banned right now.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php

LeadSpitter_
01-26-2004, 04:38 PM
the first jet to jet combat was between the me262 and the british gloster meteor in wwii

http://www.geocities.com/leadspittersig/LSIG.txt
VIEW MY PAINTSCHEMES HERE (http://www.il2skins.com/?planeidfilter=all&planefamilyfilter=all&screenshotfilter=allskins&countryidfilter=all&authoridfilter=%3ALeadspitter%3A&historicalidfilter=all&Submit=+++Apply+filters++&action=list&ts=1072257400)

A.K.Davis
01-26-2004, 05:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
the first jet to jet combat was between the me262 and the british gloster meteor in wwii
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really? When and where? I thought the first "jet-to-jet" combat was a Meteor intercepting a V1 buzz bomb.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

WUAF_Badsight
01-26-2004, 09:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tttiger:

This post-war fantasy stuff is pure crap. And Oleg seems to have made a commitment to it -- with BIG dollar signs in his eyes.

Pity. He used to be really dedicated to accuracy and realism. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


dude your such a spoilsport

fact is the corsair IS being worked on

fact is the 262 has a realistic FM .... what makes you think the P-80 WONT

im sure it will be as realistic as the 262 is

FB shouldnt stick to within august 1945

your just complaining that players are getting stuff that you dont want them to get

WHAT THE FRICKEN HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU ?

are you trying to say that less planes is more fun ?

if you dont like the plane , then you are going to HAVE TO FLY IT ANYWAY

its being encoded into the expansion

so your stuffed , your onlyhope is to not buy it & un-install FB

your days of dissapointment being over are near !

horseback
01-26-2004, 09:35 PM
Guys who like jets just have a thing for big tail pipes...

Cheers

horseback

"Here's your new Mustangs, boys. You can learn to fly'em on the way to the target. Cheers!" -LTCOL Don Blakeslee, 4th FG CO, February 27th, 1944

chris455
01-26-2004, 09:53 PM
Leadspitter wrote:
the first jet to jet combat was between the me262 and the british gloster meteor in wwii

Lead, can you source this? I thought first jet vs jet was P-80 vs MiG-15 over Korea- http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Mirtma
01-26-2004, 11:29 PM
LeadSpitter_ I couldn't resist to tell - Great sig you have!!!

---------------------------
Athlon 2000 XP+
1024 Mb DDram
GeForce 4200 Ti 128Mb 8xAGP
SB Live! 1024 Player
Logitech WingMan Force 3D
---------------------------

ElAurens
01-26-2004, 11:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:

It is also rumored that the Me-262 was the first to break the sound barrier. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Now that's the funniest thing I've heard all day......

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

BlitzPig_EL

Osirisx9
01-27-2004, 12:06 AM
Why is the 262 banned from most servers. Ot did fight in ww2.

Osiris_X9

CHN_EagleHeart
01-27-2004, 12:57 AM
Lolhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dont let the history limmited your fun, Its a game.

A fantasy based on history, and beyond history.

If I see MIG-15/19 and F-86 in the add on, i will thanks god and OLEG teamhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WhiskeyRiver
01-27-2004, 01:24 AM
Oleg can put whatever aircraft he wants in FB. The guys who modelled the jets, along with 1c:maddox, did all the work. I thank all of them for their contribution. All you whiners can stuff it you bunch of f*cking ingrates.

"waaah!! Oleg put in extra airplanes some of which weren't historically significant!"

now go call your relatives and complain about your christmas gifts

To kill me you've got to hit the heart Ramon--Clint F*cking Eastwood

Lord_Krashrak
01-27-2004, 03:17 AM
as for the me 262 breaking the sound barrier. do to the way the jet was desigened if it got near the sound barrier it would have ripped it's self to peaces because its wing's and jets caused to much drag. that is why the x plane chuck yager used had a special design. and as for the adding of the new jets as many have said they are all banned on the servers for online dogfighting so what the hell does it matter if there in the game or not its not like you are going to run into them online and get shot down by them there just there for people to fly and create what if missions so please quit crying about it i get enough of that from my one year old son. the game is ment to be fun after all its just a game

"Only the dead have seen the end of war"

FuryFighter
01-27-2004, 03:31 AM
how about... don't buy the expansion if those planes are such a problem... whats the go with everyone complaining... if you don't like a plane... don't fly it... its that simple.

The P-80 is a welcome addition... maybe then the 262 won't be banned by the La7 drivers. Its a beautiful peice of work and is gunna be an interesting match for sturmvogel pilots.

Lets see how long it takes for another "Why this plane" whine fest... I have a question... all this whine... who brought the cheese and crackers??

http://www.angelfire.com/space2/messerschmitt262/cool_sig.jpg

B16Enk
01-27-2004, 04:26 AM
Moot point.

But it could be argued that development time on the jets could have gone elsewhere, like Mosquito, Lancaster &lt;insert other missing props&gt; http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Either way I'll enjoy what we get and I will not join the ranks of the whiners (or flamers for that matter)!

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

FW190fan
01-27-2004, 05:15 AM
Not all jets are fantasy, so let's not relegate the ones that actually did serve to this category.

The Lutwaffe can have two in 1944 with the Me262 and the Arado 234 Blitz, both of which were flying operational combat missions at this time.

In 1945 a third German jet, the He-162 flew operational missions even though fuel supplies were practically nil.

The British flew the Meteor operationally on intercept missions against buzz bombs.

But as far as jet against jet combat during WWII, it never happened.

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

FW190fan
01-27-2004, 05:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Osirisx9:
Why is the 262 banned from most servers. Osiris_X9<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because even though it's historic, people that know how to fly it properly will completely dominate a server that allows it.

People don't like that.

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

Osirisx9
01-27-2004, 09:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FW190fan:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Osirisx9:
Why is the 262 banned from most servers. Osiris_X9<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because even though it's historic, people that know how to fly it properly will completely dominate a server that allows it.

Doen't this happens whenever the La-7s are enabled. They completely dominate the servers when there is even a noob flying the thing. Respectfully

Osiris_X9

People don't like that.

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

VonLuger
01-27-2004, 10:15 AM
&lt;img src=http://home.comcast.net/~mitch-00/919047_20040123_screen003.jpg&gt;

Platypus_1.JaVA
01-27-2004, 10:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:

It is also rumored that the Me-262 was the first to break the sound barrier. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Now that's the funniest thing I've heard all day......

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

__BlitzPig_EL__<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mind you, it has some elements of Critics to Americans. The article was written by a french guy.
http://www.vho.org/tr/2003/1/Chelain69-71.html

This article has it too
http://www.indianexpress.com/ie20010613/int5.shtml

AND the most convincing article:
http://mach1.luftarchiv.de/first_flg.htm

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php

Platypus_1.JaVA
01-27-2004, 10:19 AM
What I would like to know is why Leadspitter thinks that the Me-262 and the Gloster Meteor ever met in combat. I always thought the Brits kept their Meteors close to their homebases, mainly for testing and trying not to break their precious jetfighters.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php

Cardinal25
01-27-2004, 10:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tttiger:
BeoWolf:

LOL! A viola is a stringed instrument a bit larger than a violin. I think you meant voila http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I always enjoy flying Coops with ya, BW, and you write some really good ones. But if I see P-80s in 'em and you notice I quietly leave, you'll know why.

This post-war fantasy stuff is pure crap. And Oleg seems to have made a commitment to it -- with BIG dollar signs in his eyes.

Pity. He used to be really dedicated to accuracy and realism.

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am sure you will be missed.

-----------------------------
Asshat = Don't do it. (http://www.acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php)

crazyivan1970
01-27-2004, 10:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tttiger:
BeoWolf:

LOL! A viola is a stringed instrument a bit larger than a violin. I think you meant voila http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I always enjoy flying Coops with ya, BW, and you write some really good ones. But if I see P-80s in 'em and you notice I quietly leave, you'll know why.

This post-war fantasy stuff is pure crap. And Oleg seems to have made a commitment to it -- with BIG dollar signs in his eyes.

Pity. He used to be really dedicated to accuracy and realism.

ttt

"I want the one that kills the best with the least amount of risk to me"

-- Chuck Yeager describing "The Best Airplane."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And what exactly adding of a jet plane has to do with accuracy and realism? Someone on his own time, driven by pure dedication makes an exceptional model of ww2 era aircraft... and instead of appriciaton... this? Am i missing something here? Don`t like the jets, leave quietly that`s all. I am not a big fan of jets either... but guess what, sometimes i add them to my server and they don`t do that well. In full difficulty settings jet is just another plane. If you ddin`t see what`s comming to you, you as good as dead, no matter what you fly. I remember couple of weeks ago one of WUAF guys finally got to me and i run my 1945 map with Me262`s and BI-1 and guess what, out of 20 planes in the air... there were only 2 jets http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

Lets be real, there are few aircraft in the game that didn`t even see the action... or maybe they did...whole 3 of them http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If someone completes the plane and passes Maddox standards, hats off to them and outmost respect.

V!
Regards,

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Diese_ist_shais
01-27-2004, 02:20 PM
Pardon me for what I am about to say to the whiners. Besides, I'm just going to say this once and only once. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

PUT A F***ING SOCK IN IT!!!!!!!!!

If you are against the use of jets, then fine....don't buy the Expansion Pack. But don't go out and start obstructing other people's rights by protesting against jets and insulting the game developers.

Do you have any idea how much effort is required to model a plane like the Me-262 in a 3D modeling program? I am a moderately-skilled 3D modeler and I know the amount of effort it takes. It took me 3 years to learn most of Gmax [from www.discreet.com] (http://www.discreet.com]) and it was hard. However, the time I've spent learning to model is NOTHING compared to Oleg's team.

I love jets. I love to confront a Me-262 with a P-80. Especially when you only have your guns and that makes it even more thrilling.

If you keep protesting against the jet-addons in the Expansion Pack, then you are obstructing MY rights to have the jet-addons.

If I am not making myself clear enough, then please don't hesitate to ask.

FW190fan
01-27-2004, 02:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:

Now that's the funniest thing I've heard all day......

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yes, I suppose we could all have a big laugh together and this time the "joke" is on the USAAF and their "Me262 Pilot's Handbook" published after the war.

Oh what funny stuff...http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

http://people.aero.und.edu/~choma/lrg0645.jpg

Aaron_GT
01-27-2004, 02:48 PM
The Meteor wasn't just used against V1s.
It was stationed in Belgium from early
1945 and conducted ground attacks.

Contrary to what LeadSpitter suggests,
there is no evidence that it ever
engaged 262s.

Captain_Avatar
01-27-2004, 03:17 PM
Sheesh, did someone forget this was a "SIMULATION"? Not every plane present on the eastern front is in the game nor every permutation of each aircraft is present. The game only goes so far in depicting actual aerial combat. The AI is limited and human players are not trained the same way as WW2 pilots were.

So What if someone wants to fly a P-80 vs an ME262 (or insert your favorite AXIS Aircraft). It was within the realm of possibilities in 1945 and boy oh boy it will soon be very possible in the upcoming expansion pack.

Platypus_1.JaVA
01-27-2004, 03:58 PM
It is quite fun to see people taking the bait



http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php

ElAurens
01-27-2004, 04:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FW190fan:


Yes, I suppose we could all have a big laugh together and this time the "joke" is on the USAAF and their "Me262 Pilot's Handbook" published after the war.

Oh what funny stuff...http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Care to elaborate a little?

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

BlitzPig_EL

mortoma
01-27-2004, 07:51 PM
Well the problem is that very talented artists like Gibbage, model the planes they want, not neccesarily the planes that you or I would like.
To Gibbage, the P-80 is a fantasy plane, but for most of us it would not be important. Most of us would be more sensible as to what planes we'd model. But most of us can't model!!! A bummer but the facts of life....

tagert
01-27-2004, 08:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
Care to elaborate a little?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I belive he is refering to the USSAF T-2 AMG Me262 hand book where it mentions how the controls got very stiff and useless.. and then all of a suden became un-stiff useful again.. Much like chuck described the controls of the X-1... YEARS LATER!! And, another thing to note about the Me262 adn the X1 they both had the ability to move the whole elevator.. The Me262 did it for trim, the X1 I belive did it for picth in general. Anyway here is a link that shows that discription of how the controls worked POST the speed of sound

http://mach1.luftarchiv.de/hand.htm

I think the diff here is LEVEL FLIGHT. I belive the Me262 was in a dive to break the speed o sound.. I think that the sound barrier thing in LEVEL FLIGHT is the X-1's claim to fame... On that note, I recall some storys of P47 donig it in a dive... but

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Despite having a propeller that was designed to be more efficient at these speeds, the fact remained that the drag rise across the prop was so great that it functioned like a giant disk shaped air brake. Fisher had proved beyond any doubt that all previous claims of exceeding the speed of sound while diving a prop driven aircraft were untrue.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>For more on that see...

http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Fisher.html

P.S. I have a complete copy of that T-2 AMD Me262 hand book... so if you guys need any info from it, let me know

TAGERT

[This message was edited by tagert on Tue January 27 2004 at 08:07 PM.]

ElAurens
01-27-2004, 09:53 PM
Thanks Tagert. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif But somehow I think that FW190fan is taking this as proof that the Me 262 went supersonic. I am not convinced, revisionist history articles or not...

I was going to bring up the fact that the Bell X1 broke the sound barrier in a climb, but then I figured why bother, The P80 whiners won't listen anyway...

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

BlitzPig_EL

tagert
01-27-2004, 10:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
Thanks Tagert. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No Prob!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
But somehow I think that FW190fan is taking this as proof that the Me 262 went supersonic. I am not convinced, revisionist history articles or not...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well.. I just found it interesting that the Me262 exhibeted the same symptoms of Chucks X1 flights with regards of regaining control POST the speed of sound... That tends to imply that the Me262 did it... but did it in a dive.. The only question left is.. are they talking about the speed of sound over the control surfaces.. or the aircraft as a whole.. In that Im told... and it make sense that the air flow is different at differnt points of the aircraft (ie the whole wing lift thing).. So the air flow over the controls surfaces could have been supersonic.. but the aircraft itself as a whole might not have been.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
I was going to bring up the fact that the Bell X1 broke the sound barrier in a climb, but then I figured why bother,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I seem to recal pictures of the X1 when the rocket motor kick in that it did gain some alt.. but they allways seem to speak of the event in LEVEL FLIGHT terms.. So maybe it climbed for a bit, then went level for the speed test?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
The P80 whiners won't listen anyway...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>LOL! I have to admit.. they are a pretty one sided bunch.. All open minded to Lw stuff... very closed minded to anything else

TAGERT

MachineII
01-27-2004, 10:18 PM
http://users.adelphia.net/~machineii/Images/US_Army_troops_examine_abandoned_Me_262_near_Frank furt_-_Spring_45.jpg

Is this the one that broke the sound barrier?

http://users.adelphia.net/~machineii/images/sig7.jpg

Zatorski
01-27-2004, 10:26 PM
Bring on the jets.
I'll support people fighting PZL P.11c's vs I-153's and I'll support people flying a 262 against a P80.
its all fun

http://en.wikipedia.org/upload/2/24/Mosquito.inflight.250pix.jpg

darkhorizon11
01-27-2004, 10:47 PM
Thats a negative Platypus. Me262 never broke the sound barrier. I'm not saying that because I saw some special on the history channel either. Even the 262s that were made of metal and not wood could not withstand the physic stresses of transonic flight. Not to mention that the power required to break supersonic is considerable even for todays fighters (there are only a few planes today that can do it straight and level w/o afterburner). Its a novel and openminded thought but it didn't happen. Sorry. Same goes for the Komet and Salamander.

darkhorizon11
01-27-2004, 11:10 PM
Sorry I don't mean to sound stuck up or too self righteous but I had to but in. When the air traveling over the aircrafts wings accelerates past the speed of sound this a/s (over the fuseluge of the aircraft) is called Critical Mach Number. There is a big difference between this and supersonic flight! Examples: The p-38 Lightening had a CMN of Mach 0.83 which is considerably lower than the speed of sound. Believe or not the fastest aircraft airspeeds reached in the war were not by the German jets but by the Spitfire. This was due to the extremely efficient elliptical wing planform and airfoil. During powerdives from high altitude airspeeds were recorded up to Mach 0.95. The stocky airframe of the 262 made it incapable of this. Don't argue with me I've seen it numerous times in technical papers and such.

darkhorizon11
01-27-2004, 11:12 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Oh and yeah bring on the jets. I enjoy a CHALLENGE!

JR_Greenhorn
01-27-2004, 11:29 PM
Alas! A rational voice in the wilderness!



Its good to see someone finally talk about transonic speeds and critical mach instead of "breaking the sound barrier."

Even with the Me 262 in a power dive, those open engine intake nacelles spaced so far from the fuselage should induce a flame out long before the aircraft made it through the transonic region. Once that happened do you suppose the remainig component of g (in a 50 degree dive) was enough to continue acceleration into supersonic flight?
Neither do I.

Edit: Hmmm... I wonder if any stat-happy Luftwaffe fans know the CoD for the Me 262...

JG53Hunter
01-27-2004, 11:30 PM
Btw, i've not flown the 262 since FB1.21. Are threre any changes in the high altitude flight model of the 262 or in general? I remember hardly reaching some 7km to 8km in 1.21 (or was it 1.2RC... don`t remember).

Because if the high altitude model of the P80 will be like the one of the 262 you won't have a lot of fun with it. And if the hight altitude model of the Me262 is not corrected and the one of the P80 will be right you guys will lose your fun in bashing on the 262 quite fast :P
Jet conbat makes no sence when the high alt. flight modells are screwed or total different.

We will see.


especialy for MachineII:
This one looks alot worse
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/lait/site/pictures/YP-80%202.jpg

269GA-Veltro
01-28-2004, 01:26 AM
Ok, we'll have P 80 and Jets but...please support Oleg: buy this addon!!!! Is the only way to have the others projects we'd like have for FB.

269GA~Veltro
http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/mc202tav4.jpg

Future-
01-28-2004, 04:59 AM
@ Machine & Hunter: Guys, I think those planes are the ones that GOT broken BY the (sound?) barrier! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Seriously now, I'm also looking forward to the arrival of the P-80. Maybe we will get to see more servers again that feature the 262, as the allies now would be able to counter-attack with the P-80.

S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

Platypus_1.JaVA
01-28-2004, 05:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MachineII:
http://users.adelphia.net/~machineii/Images/US_Army_troops_examine_abandoned_Me_262_near_Frank furt_-_Spring_45.jpg

Is this the one that broke the sound barrier?

http://users.adelphia.net/~machineii/images/sig7.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Probably http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But anyways, my point simply was that the sound barrier might have been broken before the X1 by Chuck Yeager. This is an unpopular theory because:

A: there is no direct evidence of this, the evidence we have until now, is an old pilot report. No official measurements. Altough it just might be real. I think the Me-262 is alot more aerodynamic, with its swept-back wings.

B: It would break part of the fame from Chuck Yeager. As I believe, he is very popular in aviation and taking away the claim of the first to break the sound barrier, can upset some people.


No offense meant (and NO america basing) but, I see it this way.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php

Platypus_1.JaVA
01-28-2004, 05:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
Thats a negative Platypus. Me262 never broke the sound barrier. I'm not saying that because I saw some special on the history channel either. Even the 262s that were made of metal and not wood could not withstand the physic stresses of transonic flight. Not to mention that the power required to break supersonic is considerable even for todays fighters (there are only a few planes today that can do it straight and level w/o afterburner). Its a novel and openminded thought but it didn't happen. Sorry. Same goes for the Komet and Salamander.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that the evidence was flimsy at best but, then I think... "It just might be". http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif When it is really true (we might never know) of Me-262 breaking the sound barrier (and survive) then it is a very good story.

Anyways, the stuff you posted in your other message, about the Spitfire, promises something for the luftwhiners after the "ace expansion" http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I am blessed (or cursed) with a little aerodynamic knowledge myself. So, I can confirm that an elleptical wingshape is indeed very efficient.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php

ElAurens
01-28-2004, 05:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MachineII:
Is this the one that broke the sound barrier?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Nice......

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

BlitzPig_EL

ElAurens
01-28-2004, 05:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Veltro:
Ok, we'll have P 80 and Jets but...please support Oleg: buy this addon!!!! Is the only way to have the others projects we'd like have for FB.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree totally...Our particular addiction, flight sims, a re a very small piece of the PC gaming pie. We need to support all aspects of flight simultion if we want to continue to have even better content in the future...

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

BlitzPig_EL

MachineII
01-28-2004, 06:33 AM
especialy for MachineII:
This one looks alot worse
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/lait/site/pictures/YP-80%202.jpg

Yeah, especially with all those Wehrmacht troops around...oh...wait, nevermind.

Remind me to be less subtle so you get the point next time.

http://users.adelphia.net/~machineii/images/sig7.jpg

MachineII
01-28-2004, 06:34 AM
Is it me? Or do Luftwhiners not come standard with a sense of humor? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://users.adelphia.net/~machineii/images/sig7.jpg

[This message was edited by MachineII on Wed January 28 2004 at 05:43 AM.]

SpinSpinSugar
01-28-2004, 06:47 AM
I thought the highest recorded speed for a Spit was 0.91 for a Mk V, rather than 0.95, but whatever, fastest wing of the war http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hopefully you'll be able to do some decent screaming powerdives from altitude in the thing when it arrives, without the wings falling off.

Gimme gimme.

SSS

BlitzpigGroucho
01-28-2004, 08:41 AM
A supersonic Me-262! Hahahahahahahaha! Wait! Oh, stoppit...you're killing me...

....

Huh?

You're serious.

Ahem.

How about opening a book or too...specifically the Classic Publications Me-262 Volume 1 thru Volume 4 by J. Richard Smith and Eddie J. Creek.

http://www.stormbirds.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SA&Category_Code=BKS

These books are exhaustive.

CAUTION: Reading these books will most likely cause permanent harm to a dedicated Luftwhiner's self esteem.

http://home.bak.rr.com/bimmerbob/images/BP%20GROUCHO.jpg

[This message was edited by BlitzpigGroucho on Wed January 28 2004 at 08:01 AM.]

tagert
01-28-2004, 09:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
I think that the evidence was flimsy at best but, then I think... "It just might be". http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif When it is really true (we might never know) of Me-262 breaking the sound barrier (and survive) then it is a very good story.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Evidence? If your referring to the T-2 AMG report... ie

http://mach1.luftarchiv.de/hand.htm

I think you are reading into it.. or not reading it at all.. In that it clear states..

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> T-2 AMG:
At speeds of 950 to 1000 km/hr (590 to 620 mph) the air flow around the aircraft reaches the speed of sound, and it is reported that the control surfaces no longer effect the direction of flight<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
NOTE the report clearly indicates that the airspeed of the aircraft as a whole is LESS THAN the speed of sound (i.e. 620mph) and goes on to say that as the AIR FLOW AROUND THE AIRCRAFT reaches the speed of sound.. We know from basic wing theory that air travels at different speeds at different points of the aircraft.. but this does not mean the aircraft itself (as a whole) was traveling at the speed of sound.

The part that you may be confusing you is later in this same paragraph where it says

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> T-2 AMG:
It is also reported that once the speed of sound is exceeded, this condition disappears and the normal controls is restored<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Now if you took that line out-of-context of the preceding portion of the paragraph one might think they are talking about the aircraft as a whole.. But they clearly are not, in that they go on to refer back to the condition of the controls

So in summary, there is no cover up of the orginal US 1946 T-2 AMG report... Just a simple missunderstanding of it.. And dont feel bad!! Alot of people made that misstake.. I myself read it wrong the first time, but some of the fine people here in this forum pointed it out to me, just like I am to you now

TAGERT

tagert
01-28-2004, 09:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
No offense meant (and NO america basing) but, I see it this way.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Then it is time for some new glasses! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TAGERT

VonLuger
01-28-2004, 09:45 AM
This thread is missing my point- I tried the the img src thing but it didn't work--I was reacting to the screenshots ubi decided to publish for the examples for the expansion pack, 3 of the screenshots a p-80 shooting down a Me262 hope this link will help then tell me your true gut reaction.. http://www.gamespot.com/pc/sim/il2sturmovikfbace/screenindex.html

tagert
01-28-2004, 09:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VonLuger:
This thread is missing my point-<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well dont feel bad.. This would not be the first time, nor will it be the last time that someone planted an apple seed only to find later that a oak tree pop up! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VonLuger:
I tried the the img src thing but it didn't work--I was reacting to the screenshots ubi decided to publish for the examples for the expansion pack, 3 of the screenshots a p-80 shooting down a Me262 hope this link will help then tell me your true gut reaction.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>My reaction.. COOL! I have allways had a flair for WHAT IF stuff.. Like SWOTL and AOTP:1946. As for your orginal statments of real.. Enh! At least they were all real planes.. They may not have seen action.. but they were real (not 100% sure about the 109Z.. just one prototype?).. but as for you fear of a F15 showing up... Dont worrie about it!

TAGERT

WhiskeyRiver
01-28-2004, 10:13 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MachineII:
http://users.adelphia.net/~machineii/Images/US_Army_troops_examine_abandoned_Me_262_near_Frank furt_-_Spring_45.jpg

Is this the one that broke the sound barrier?

http://users.adelphia.net/~machineii/images/sig7.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Probably http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But anyways, my point simply was that the sound barrier might have been broken before the X1 by Chuck Yeager. This is an unpopular theory because:

A: there is no direct evidence of this, the evidence we have until now, is an old pilot report. No official measurements. Altough it just might be real. I think the Me-262 is alot more aerodynamic, with its swept-back wings.

B: It would break part of the fame from Chuck Yeager. As I believe, he is very popular in aviation and taking away the claim of the first to break the sound barrier, can upset some people.


No offense meant (and NO america basing) but, I see it this way.

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge,
ye shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you again.

http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The problem is with the 262's intakes. Shockwaves forming on the compressor blades would've caused the engines to flame out. Critical Mach also applies to the airfoil shapes of propellor blades and compressor blades.

To kill me you've got to hit the heart Ramon--Clint F*cking Eastwood

bazzaah2
01-28-2004, 10:20 AM
I was against all these 'fantasy' scenarios till this lunchtime when I was reading a review of a space combat trading game - X2 (looks GREAT if you liked Elite btw). If I'm prepared to wedge out on stuff like that then can't object to P80 v 262 dogfights.

And as someone said above it's a good way to support Oleg.

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_05.gif

Crashing online as :FI:SpinyNorman

kyrule2
01-28-2004, 10:26 AM
Just my thoughts;

-I've never been into the "what if" stuff, no interest to me at all.

-I agree with Veltro, I'll buy any FB add-on to support Oleg/1C and future projects. Imagine if we all had to play CFS3. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

-I don't mind the jets, but I just don't think they will match up well. I get tired of seeing people talk about the P-80 vs. Me-262. Apples and oranges. The 262 was not developed for fighter vs. fighter combat. The P-80 will/should be much better as it went into production much later. It's a newer design, and a newer aircraft. A better match-up would be the P-80 and He-162, but even that is silly IMHO as the 162 was a hastily constructed plane of desperation. I just don't see the jets matching up well at all IMO, and like I said if its not historical, its not for me.

-This isn't meant as a whine. I have great respect for all of the modellers efforts, and they can make whatever they want. I may not be into some of them but hey, thats my problem. I'm just happy to have any expansion for the greatest game ever created. Come to think of it, I didn't have much interest in the air war on the Eastern front before IL-2 so who knows...

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors" by Nicolas Trudgian

tagert
01-28-2004, 10:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kyrule2:
Come to think of it, I didn't have much interest in the air war on the Eastern front before IL-2 so who knows...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Exactally! Ill bet a good portion of these guys who say they dont like the WHAT IF of it all will end up liking it alot... Back in 1992 when Dynamix's Aces of the Pacific (AOTP) came out with the addon AOTP:WWII 1946 I initally thought.. What? But.. it turned out to be kind of fun!! F7F's F8F's P80's.. Kikka's (japans Me262) and that pusher plane.. J7 something? Anyway, it is very simple.. Try it.. if you dont like it, dont do it anymore! Worked for me on prom night! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TAGERT

269GA-Veltro
01-28-2004, 10:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ElAurens:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Veltro:
Ok, we'll have P 80 and Jets but...please support Oleg: buy this addon!!!! Is the only way to have the others projects we'd like have for FB.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Agree totally...Our particular addiction, flight sims, a re a very small piece of the PC gaming pie. We need to support all aspects of flight simultion if we want to continue to have even better content in the future...

_____________________________

http://www.blitzpigs.com/forum/images/avatars/Curtiss_logo.gif

__BlitzPig_EL__<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I've already ordered 3 copies, for me and my friends...in spite of, probably, we'll not have Spitfire and Me 110 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

269GA~Veltro
http://ourworld.cs.com/VeltroF/mc202tav4.jpg

BlitzpigGroucho
01-28-2004, 12:15 PM
Tagart has it right.

Methinks folks are confusing localized transsonic airflow-- a phenomena that plagued less exotic fare such as but limited to the P-47 and the P-38-- with actual supersonic flight.

As has been posted already, the critical Mach number of the Schwalbe was far too low, the elevator design wrong for supersonic flight (a conventional hinged elevator-- bad), and the engine inlet design totally inappropriate for supersonic flight. I would add that instead of causing a simple flame-out, a shockwave impinging on the Jumo's fan face would most likely cause catastrophic compressor stalls.

Those things were fragile enough without problems like that...

http://home.bak.rr.com/bimmerbob/images/BP%20GROUCHO.jpg

JG53Hunter
01-28-2004, 12:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MachineII:

especialy for MachineII:
This one looks alot worse
http://web.ukonline.co.uk/lait/site/pictures/YP-80%202.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, especially with all those Wehrmacht troops around...oh...wait, nevermind.

Remind me to be less subtle so you get the point next time.

http://users.adelphia.net/~machineii/images/sig7.jpg

@MachineII

You can be LESS subtile? That's a good one. Hey, whats that sentence for? :"Is it me? Or do Luftwhiners not come standard with a sense of humor?" sentence, or what? LoL"
Calling for help? Trying to get some guys bashing on me? Don't seams to work.

I think you wanted to drag some spice out of your previous posts. You have no smilie in that post with the Me262 and you want us LW-Fans see your post as a funny post? Your post was an direct attack. Nothing more or less.
And well. I think i have alot of humor but your post wasn't funny at all. Sorry, but i think you have to work at your humor :P

About the small Wermacht hint:
No problem with that one since i know the war has ended some 60 years ago http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif You know???

MrOblongo
01-28-2004, 12:24 PM
Well, there were P80s ( 1 in trial i think) in Italy in 1945 :P
There were Meteors in England

And germans... we all know what wonders they had (cant wait for an Ar234 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif)

Spectre_USA
01-28-2004, 12:25 PM
I see it as a direct attack on the claim, not the claimer. And here's the smilie that was
inadvertantly omitted. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/mockface.gif

Hope that helps. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And this line, <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>CAUTION: Reading these books will most likely cause permanent harm to a dedicated Luftwhiner's self esteem.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Slayed me! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.blitzpigs.com/images/BP_Spectre_A-10_sig.jpg
CombatSim.com Forums Moderator (http://WWW.CombatSim.com)
BlitzPigs Co-WebMaster/Moderator (http://www.BlitzPigs.com)

Future-
01-28-2004, 12:30 PM
@ Kyrule: You forget one thing, it's not the weapon that scores the hit, it's the person that uses it.
There are several experienced 262 pilots out there (like, for example, my personal nightmare, "ArrestingLeech", a true killer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif ), while everybody will have to learn the pro & contras on the P-80 from scratch once it's here, so I expect that even if the P-80 is that much better, the fights will be very interesting since the 262 guys bring i their superior experience.

@ VonLuger: Well, I already said it, I'm quite looking forward to the P-80, her battle with the 262, and the first flight with all the other so-called "fantasy" planes. Can't wait to get the add-on!

S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

MachineII
01-28-2004, 12:31 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
@MachineII

You can be LESS subtile? That's a good one. Hey, whats that sentence for? :"Is it me? Or do Luftwhiners not come standard with a sense of humor?" sentence, or what? LoL"
Calling for help? Trying to get some guys bashing on me? Don't seams to work.

I think you wanted to drag some spice out of your previous posts. You have no smilie in that post with the Me262 and you want us LW-Fans see your post as a funny post? Your post was an direct attack. Nothing more or less.
And well. I think i have alot of humor but your post wasn't funny at all. Sorry, but i think you have to work at your humor :P

About the small Wermacht hint:
No problem with that one since i know the war has ended some 60 years ago http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif You know???<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Nobody knows what it's like, to be the sad man, to be the bad man."

Lighten' up Shirley.

PS Learn how to spell "WeHrmacht".

http://users.adelphia.net/~machineii/images/sig7.jpg

JG53Hunter
01-28-2004, 12:41 PM
Seems that the forum is not displaying correct on my machine today because i see only a spacer for the smilie.

And don't try to put me in the luftwhining box http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif You can search for any whining post of me here (ok, haven't done many here yet) and on the VOW forums if you want to. You won't find any of me. Often its the man not the machine. (Btw, i like shooting bad flown P51 in my F4. That makes them so upset and crying "cheater" at me :P http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

I think i am somebody who tries to keep an open mind for all aspects. As for the Me262 i don't think she has reached supersonic speeds (airframespeed). And even if she had in a dive. Who cares. She was not designed to do that and she couldn't do that in level flight. Supersonic was not an operational area for her.

Greetings,
Hunter

JG53Hunter
01-28-2004, 12:45 PM
Ok, i'll buy an "h" if i'll find one

Covino
01-28-2004, 01:04 PM
I don't care what planes they add as long as the fantasy planes stay off the campaigns. I fly the dynamic campaigns for realism and if I meet a P-80 in a campaign, FB will be forever off my hard drive. Let's keep this Forgotten Battles not CFS3 or BF1942: Secret Weapons.

Jirozaemon
01-28-2004, 01:39 PM
@ Machine II

"Nobody knows what it's like, to be the sad man, to be the bad man."

&gt;&gt;&gt; Fred "Rotk├┬Ąppchen" Durst sucks... &lt;&lt;&lt;

kyrule2
01-28-2004, 02:36 PM
Future, I'm in a 262 squad. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

jg51.com

I'm not making excuses in advance, I can fly the 262 just fine, but the P-80 as a fighter should be more than just a little bit better.

http://www.brooksart.com/Icewarriors.jpg

"Ice Warriors" by Nicolas Trudgian

Future-
01-28-2004, 05:36 PM
@ Kyrule: http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Yikes, a Schwalbe jockey! Now I got two personal nightmares (I fly B-17) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

@ EvilBen: "if I meet a P-80 in a campaign, FB will be forever off my hard drive."

Oh well, that's your choice, though I think it might be stupid to spend some 30 bucks first on the add-on and then quitting to play the game because of ONE plane.

"Let's keep this Forgotten Battles not CFS3 or BF1942: Secret Weapons."

And another mindless insult towards the developers. Boy, if you really dislike this one plane that much, then just don't buy the expansion. Simple is that. But don't walk around here and start making silly comparisons just because you don't like something.

S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

Covino
01-28-2004, 06:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Future-:
@ Kyrule: http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Yikes, a Schwalbe jockey! Now I got two personal nightmares (I fly B-17) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

@ EvilBen: "if I meet a P-80 in a campaign, FB will be forever off my hard drive."

Oh well, that's your choice, though I think it might be stupid to spend some 30 bucks first on the add-on and then quitting to play the game because of ONE plane.

"Let's keep this Forgotten Battles not CFS3 or BF1942: Secret Weapons."

And another mindless insult towards the developers. Boy, if you really dislike this one plane that much, then just don't buy the expansion. Simple is that. But don't walk around here and start making silly comparisons just because you don't like something.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good job twisting my words, you must be a politician. I never said I disliked the plane. In fact, I'm welcoming it arrival and can't wait to cruise around in it or play some "what-if" scenarios. But I'm mainly a full real offline player and I play and enjoy the FB campaigns for realism. I just hope Oleg is wise enough to not include P-80's, and other such fantasy scenario planes, in late war campaigns (unless of course there is some kind some kind of fantasy campaign). This is my only worry. It's hard enough surviving in a Stuka against Yaks.

Future-
01-28-2004, 06:20 PM
Well, in this case, please accept my apology on this. I guess you just had to elaborate this a lil more as you did now for me to understand correctly.

S!

And good luck with your Stuka http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

WUAF_Badsight
01-28-2004, 09:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Veltro:
I've already ordered 3 copies, for me and my friends...in spite of, probably, we'll not have Spitfire and Me 110 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


sorry but you will have to put up with getting the Spitfire MkV

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif too cool i know

Snow_Wolf_
01-28-2004, 09:59 PM
I have my complete faith in Oleg's and his team of great programers and third party add-on developers. Every plane they gives us they try to give it as much detail as they can and we should thank them for it and not bash it what they are trying to do. Not to say they did improve FM and DM in patches. We should give them a break for this is a game and there is only so much you can do in a game (Aka you can't really put everything that happens in real life flying in a game cause sometimes it pure luck out there)

GR142-Pipper
01-29-2004, 12:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TooCooL34:
Imagine you're in Korea.
Fight in Korean War style.

It's not that different from late prop plane dogfight style, and still exciting.

Anyway where is my Korean War sim? This is real Forgotten Battles. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/blink.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True. As an aside, even a Viet Nam FB edition would be good (F-8/F-4/F-105 vs. Mig 17/19/21). That too would be great fun.

GR142-Pipper

Aeronautico
01-30-2004, 01:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Veltro:
I've already ordered 3 copies, for me and my friends...in spite of, probably, we'll not have Spitfire and Me 110 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

sorry but you will have to put up with getting the Me 110G-2

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif too cool i know


http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

A.

--------------------
Airplanes are now built to carry a pilot and a dog in the cockpit: the pilot's job is
to feed the dog, and the dog's job is to bite the pilot if he touches anything...

- Arlen Rens, Lockheed Martin test pilot

gates123
01-30-2004, 02:42 PM
There is an huge public obsession right now in the video game market for late ww2 aircraft. It can be seen with some RTCW maps with ho-229's flying around , bf1942 secret weapons expansion pak, this new lucas arts Luftwaffe secret weapons game ect ect. Some of the most popular shows on history and discovery channel cover late war luftwaffe weapons and development. I can see why ubi/1c is going is this direction for the moment because they are trying to tap into this market and lure people who to play THIS sim/game instead of the other 10 games being developed under the same theme. Once you play FB your hooked, we all know that. What can benefit is a larger amount of money for future (BoB) development, a larger amount of online players which intern will mean more players/fans willing to host servers online which will benefit all of us (especially the pilots who mostly play online). Give it a rest there trying to tap out this engine for what its worth. Next we'll hear everyone complaining about no bf-109k in BoB. I for one can't wait to take an me-163 for a spin albeit a short one http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://gr.fipu.krasnoyarsk.edu/camms/archive/ww2_fighters/0112/pics/0112_2_1.jpg
Did anyone see that or was it just me?

nearmiss
01-30-2004, 05:30 PM
If we don't get some real fixes of value, I'm not buying it.

UbiSoft is just milking the SIM with more of the same thing a few planes, maps and missions. A stupid computer campaign generator is just the joke of the century. All the tripe talk about realism is just stupid rhetoric when the developers dump a computer campaign generator in the pile of stuff they provide for a $30 US add-on.

I build my own missions and with the lousy mission builder we have now I can't even use the maps and aircraft we have to advantage.

If I buy it...it will be off Ebay for pennies on the dollar. I'll do that, but I sure as heck am not busting my gut to get a first copy at EA or GameStop.

The Online players will be getting new aircraft and some maps. That'll keep them down to a dull roar for awhile. We offline players get more of the same old...same old stuff.

So, I say Oleg and company are going to come up with something more than what I've read to get my bucks.

--------------------- http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Future-
01-30-2004, 07:20 PM
If it matters to you, it also seems most of the in-game graphics get an overhaul.

I think the exp pack is a good and fair deal, especially if you consider that we already got so much stuff for free... time to pay a few bucks for all the good work Oleg and his team have done. After all, FB still remains to be one of the best developer/publisher supported pc games that are available to date.

S!

- Future

Commanding Officer of the 530th Bomb Squad
380th Bomb Group 5th AF USAAF

http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/p1083.jpg

Visit us at http://members.tripod.com/tophatssquadron , home of the 310th FS and the 380th BG

ELITE1499
01-30-2004, 08:14 PM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

hotspace
01-30-2004, 08:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SpinSpinSugar:
I thought the highest recorded speed for a Spit was 0.91 for a Mk V, rather than 0.95, but whatever, fastest wing of the war http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hopefully you'll be able to do some decent screaming powerdives from altitude in the thing when it arrives, without the wings falling off.

Gimme gimme.

SSS<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was a MkXI, M8 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hot Space

http://img11.photobucket.com/albums/v33/Hot_Space/me1.jpg