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LeadSpitter_
01-19-2004, 05:27 PM

LeadSpitter_
01-19-2004, 05:27 PM

Fennec_P
01-19-2004, 06:02 PM
I don't think automate bomb sight would be cool. Thats the whole fun about bombing.

It used to be no problem with the use of the level stabilizer. You could stabilize the plane, go to bombsight, and bomb to your hearts content.

Now that level stab is gone, its impossible to keep the plane straight, and operate the sight at the same time. I find myself with one hand on the stick, one hand on the bombsight keys, and my other hand on the trim controls. Then even if the bombs do drop, they land nowhere near the target.

It used to be I could bomb the Marat 5 times in a row from 4000m. Now, it is a miracle to hit Berlin http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

tagert
01-19-2004, 06:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
we have ai controlled gunners on the bombers why not an ai setting up the bombsite and one key to switch directly to the bombsite instead of 2. B for example and its lined up you just have to drop the bombs then hit B again or joystick button to cycle back to pilot view.

I do like the manual site for coops but for one person its too much to do when flying online.

I usually setup my site before takeoff say 3500m and 280 speed and still when on approach the slightest wing movement makes the site disapear.

I think a feature of having an ai automated bombsite as an opinion for online games would be a good feature.

I just wanted to see how other people who fly bombers feel.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmmmm I dont know... AI bomb sight guys? Well.. assuimng there was.. you would have to have the auto pilot at the same time.. thus only positions you cold man would be guns.. Next big thing to solve.. how do you indicate to the AI what target to hit?

Personally I would be happy if they fixed the auto-level!! Make it a bit more auto-pilot.. so that while ON it maintains the aircraft alt/speed... AND ALLOW US TO MAKE ADJ via the RUDDERS!! Currently when you enable auto-level it disables the joystick AND rudders... I understand the joystick part... Dont want to roll or change alt... but we need rudders to adj the bomb run...

TAGERT

V_Flatspin
01-19-2004, 06:28 PM
I'm so confused http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Something has to be done to be sure. I would just like something that didn't imply that I'm the only one in the plane running around between positions. Jump into the bombardier's seat and the plane starts doin' the funky. If when I'm bombardier the plane flew basically level (as if there were still a pilot doing his job) and I could make minor inputs for correction without rolling 30 degrees off the bomb run -- I would be happy.

And before the fighter-jocks start screaming about how unfair that is...consider first how much of a sweet target we're making on the IP flying straight and level. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

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LeadSpitter_
01-19-2004, 07:18 PM
Im just talking about for online play the host having an option to turn on auto bombsite adjustment for when your flying the bomber by yourself, toggle to scope, alt speed are set at what your flying speed. You just have to drop the payload, still chances for being slightly off target. You currently need 8 keys to adjust everything.

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tagert
01-19-2004, 08:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
Im just talking about for online play the host having an option to turn on auto bombsite adjustment for when your flying the bomber by yourself, toggle to scope, alt speed are set at what your flying speed. You just have to drop the payload, still chances for being slightly off target. You currently need 8 keys to adjust everything.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah, ok, now I see what you were saying, I like it! Good idea!!

TAGERT

US380thBG-Tug-
01-20-2004, 10:53 AM
I think the bombsight (I'm thinking of the He-111) is fine as it is, even for online. It sure ain't easy, but there are ways to truly stabilize the aircraft prior to the initial point for your run in to target. These are essential for a successful drop. The largest drawback I guess is the "penalty" paid for any banking. It can take a very, very long time to restabilize the bombsight after only mild maneuvering - and forget evasive action. These requirements equate to a long, slow, level run in to target; one you're likely to never complete if an enemy fighter gets a whiff of you.

A great part of the fun for me in flying bombers is the fact that it is so very difficult (and often frustrating) to set up a good bombsight run. However, dropping a couple of eggs through someone's cockpit from 5000m is a nice reward for the effort.

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surlybirch
01-20-2004, 11:22 AM
Forgive me if someone has touched on this already, but what I think could also be used is an improved Autopilot.

The plane leveler should actually keep the plane level -- without condition. (when you're at the bombardier position, you can't exactly keep your hand on the stick.) [unless you're Tolwyn, of course~!] http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SURLY

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SURLYbirch

tfu_iain1
01-20-2004, 03:27 PM
level stabiliser still does work, but only on bombers with a bombsight

once your on target, i prefer to use level stabiliser, and trim to adjust the plane... much mroe gentle that if you had rudder control, as that would take the aircraft off the ball, thus giving and incorrect indication of where the bombs would fall anyway (when off the ball the aircrafts nose is angled differently to the actual direction of motion... bombs fall with planes momentum, not with the way the plane is looking http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

jeroen-79
01-20-2004, 04:44 PM
A thing to keep in mind is that bombing was a two man job.

The pilot kept the plane level, at constant speed and on course to the target while the bombardier aimed the sight.

I assume there would be communication between pilot and bombardier about how to fly and aim.

How about modeling that?

When the player is in the pilot's seat and he passes the waypoint before the target the bombardier will announce that he starts bombing and gives the pilot guidance on how to fly.
He could give instructions like "a bit left", "a lot right" or "right on course!", the pilot would use these to keep on track and keep the plane at the same speed and altitude.
When the bombs go or no proper aim can be achieved the bombardier will announce this.

Maybe the bombardier could give handsignals too?
He could hold up a hand and tilt it to signal what kind of correction he wants.

Likewise, if the player is in the bombardiers seat he can give instructions to the pilot.
The speed and altitude would be set in the preflight flightplan and the player can make course corrections with a "left", "right" and "center" key.
Double tapping the key would signal a big correction.
The joystick can be used to give an analog signal.
If no good aim can be achieved the player can issue a "go around" command.
The AI pilot would adjust as demanded and keep the plane level and stable.

How about it?

tagert
01-20-2004, 05:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>by tfu_iain1:
level stabiliser still does work, but only on bombers with a bombsight once your on target, i prefer to use level stabiliser,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmm level is not as big of a problem.. but I dont recall my joystick working at all once you enable the auto-level?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>by tfu_iain1:
and trim to adjust the plane... much mroe gentle that if you had rudder control,
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>true rudder trim is less effective than the rudder itself.. but Im not talking about stopping my rudders either.. just want to bring the nose on target then release the rudder.. instead of what I have to do now...

1)I see via the bomb sight that Im not linned up...
2)disable auto-level
3)jump out of the bomb sight view
4)make a heading adj via rudders
5)go back into bomb sight views and see if Im lined up.. if not goto step 3
6)enable auto-level
7)check bomb sight and hope your adj didnt put the aircraft into roll, dive, or climb.
8)drop bombs

If they would make the auto-level more auto-pilot like then it would maintain the alt and keep the wings level... all you would have to do is adj the nose via rudders.. or rudder trim. Thus removing steps 2,3,5,6

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>by tfu_iain1:
as that would take the aircraft off the ball, thus giving and incorrect indication of where the bombs would fall anyway (when off the ball the aircrafts nose is angled differently to the actual direction of motion... bombs fall with planes momentum, not with the way the plane is looking<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Which is also true for rudder trim.. just less noticable.. I like to be line up prior to dropping.. not linning up while dropping

TAGERT

tagert
01-20-2004, 05:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> by jeroen-79:
A thing to keep in mind is that bombing was a two man job.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Depends on the aircraft type..

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> by jeroen-79:
The pilot kept the plane level, at constant speed and on course to the target while the bombardier aimed the sight.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>For the B17 the auto-pilot was engade that kept the plane level... and the bombardier could change the heading from the bomb sight.. As for constant speed... I think the pilots just left them alone while on the bomb run. So in essance, what Im asking for.. i.e. a auto-level that is more auto-pilot like would model that perfectly

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> by jeroen-79:
I assume there would be communication between pilot and bombardier about how to fly and aim.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes the pilot would tell the bombardier.. "your flying the aircraft now, let us know when you are done"

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> by jeroen-79:
How about modeling that?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Emmm not sure if it was so for all bombers back then.. The B17 was pretty advanced compaired to most of that time... Maybe the other older bombers did it the way you described.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> by jeroen-79:
When the player is in the pilot's seat and he passes the waypoint before the target the bombardier will announce that he starts bombing and gives the pilot guidance on how to fly.
He could give instructions like "a bit left", "a lot right" or "right on course!", the pilot would use these to keep on track and keep the plane at the same speed and altitude.
When the bombs go or no proper aim can be achieved the bombardier will announce this.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Problem is.. we only have one guy.. us the user..

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> by jeroen-79:
Maybe the bombardier could give handsignals too?
He could hold up a hand and tilt it to signal what kind of correction he wants.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Emmm might work in the He111

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> by jeroen-79:
Likewise, if the player is in the bombardiers seat he can give instructions to the pilot.
The speed and altitude would be set in the preflight flightplan and the player can make course corrections with a "left", "right" and "center" key.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Which is not much different then having an auto-pilot keep the plane level and at alt while you adj the heading via the rudders.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> by jeroen-79:
Double tapping the key would signal a big correction.
The joystick can be used to give an analog signal.
If no good aim can be achieved the player can issue a "go around" command.
The AI pilot would adjust as demanded and keep the plane level and stable.

How about it?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well I would just about take anything over what we got now! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TAGERT

jeroen-79
01-20-2004, 06:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tagert:
Depends on the aircraft type..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Okay, but I was talking about He-111 and TB-3 as these are currently flyable.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>For the B17 the auto-pilot was engade that kept the plane level... and the bombardier could change the heading from the bomb sight.. As for constant speed... I think the pilots just left them alone while on the bomb run. So in essance, what Im asking for.. i.e. a auto-level that is more auto-pilot like would model that perfectly<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If such planes and bombsites get modeled some time then I too would like them to be properly modeled.

AFAIK, the TB-3 and He-111 seem to use the pilot and bombardier as a team when bombing, pilot flies, bombardier aims.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Yes the pilot would tell the bombardier.. "your flying the aircraft now, let us know when you are done"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And that kind of interaction with AI crew is missing.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Emmm not sure if it was so for all bombers back then.. The B17 was pretty advanced compaired to most of that time... Maybe the other older bombers did it the way you described.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Of course they did, otherwise I wouldn't have described it that way, would I? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif :P

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Problem is.. we only have one guy.. us the user..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But he is not in all seats at the same time.
When you are the pilot the AI gunners gun and when you are a gunner the AI pilot pilots.
Why not let the AI bombardier bomb?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Emmm might work in the He111<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
True, the pilot would have to see the bombardier.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Which is not much different then having an auto-pilot keep the plane level and at alt while you adj the heading via the rudders.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Talking to the pilot would be more realistic and offer more immersion.
Plus the bombardier wouldn't be concerned with keeping the plane on a particular heading, he would only tell the pilot what adjustments to make.
And turning by trimming the rudder is just wrong.

jeroen-79
01-20-2004, 06:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jeroen-79:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tagert:
Depends on the aircraft type..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Okay, but I was talking about He-111 and TB-3 as these are currently flyable.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>For the B17 the auto-pilot was engade that kept the plane level... and the bombardier could change the heading from the bomb sight.. As for constant speed... I think the pilots just left them alone while on the bomb run. So in essance, what Im asking for.. i.e. a auto-level that is more auto-pilot like would model that perfectly<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>If such planes and bombsites get modeled some time then I too would like them to be properly modeled.

AFAIK, the TB-3 and He-111 seem to use the pilot and bombardier as a team when bombing, pilot flies, bombardier aims.

And I understand that on the B-17 the bombardier doesn't fly, the autopilot does.
The bombardier just tells it where to fly so there still is communication involved.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Yes the pilot would tell the bombardier.. "your flying the aircraft now, let us know when you are done"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>And that kind of interaction with AI crew is missing.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Emmm not sure if it was so for all bombers back then.. The B17 was pretty advanced compaired to most of that time... Maybe the other older bombers did it the way you described.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Of course they did, otherwise I wouldn't have described it that way, would I? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif :P

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Problem is.. we only have one guy.. us the user..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But he is not in all seats at the same time.
When you are the pilot the AI gunners gun and when you are a gunner the AI pilot pilots.
Why not let the AI bombardier bomb?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Emmm might work in the He111<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
True, the pilot would have to see the bombardier.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Which is not much different then having an auto-pilot keep the plane level and at alt while you adj the heading via the rudders.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Talking to the pilot would be more realistic and offer more immersion.
Plus the bombardier wouldn't be concerned with keeping the plane on a particular heading, he would only tell the pilot what adjustments to make.
And turning by trimming the rudder is just wrong.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

US380thBG-Tug-
01-21-2004, 10:46 AM
Let's be clear. I'm not disagreeing that a better system would be nice. But I do hope to provide some information that might of help to folks struggling with the current bombsight implementation. I am in no way picking on Tagert, but I will use his post to illustrate how the process can be streamlined.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>1)I see via the bomb sight that Im not linned up...
2)disable auto-level
3)jump out of the bomb sight view
4)make a heading adj via rudders
5)go back into bomb sight views and see if Im lined up.. if not goto step 3
6)enable auto-level
7)check bomb sight and hope your adj didnt put the aircraft into roll, dive, or climb.
8)drop bombs

If they would make the auto-level more auto-pilot like then it would maintain the alt and keep the wings level... all you would have to do is adj the nose via rudders.. or rudder trim. Thus removing steps 2,3,5,6
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Option (1)

(1) See offline
(2) disable auto-level
(3) do NOT leave bombsight, just stomp rudder.
(4) re-engage auto-level while nose is yawed to establish new heading.
(5) rinse-repeat until lined up.

As long as you *only* provide yaw input, you will not bank or pitch when coming out of auto-level. You can stomp on the rudder to your heart's content, your pitch and roll will remain stable *even with auto-level disengaged*. Touch the stick though and you're fecked. I guess what I'm saying is that the current bomb sight *does* work as wished-for. Provided you really stabilize your aircraft prior to engaging auto-level...and then fine tune it (via trim) once auto-level is in fact engaged, then it works as advertised. Is the process easy? Hell no. Doable? You bet.

Option (2) - Ideal for HOTAS w/ rotary knobs

(1) If you are fortunate enough to own a HOTAS with rotary knobs (e.g. Cougar), the process becomes silky smooth. First, map rudder trim to knob (recommend you use the HOTAS setup provided by FB rather than go through the hassle of programming it).
(2) Stabilize your bomber at preplanned alt and airspeed. (You did preplan your bomb run and enter values into bombsight before take-off, right?) http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
(3) Go to bombsight.
(4) If you are off target, trim with knob in appropriate direction. Watch your crosshairs. They will slowly slew left or right according to input and, unlike stomping rudder, the slewing is continuous -which rocks!
(5) re-center trim when cross hairs are properly aligned with target. Voila!
(6) Rain iron down on your enemies whilst laughing maniacally.

Never used/seen a Norden bombsight, nor am I a history buff. But it's pretty safe to assume the bombadier wasn't stomping rudder to fine tune course. Clearly, some other system is needed to simulate a U.S. bomb sight if/when one becomes available in FB and, perhaps, this will carry over to the presently flyable bombers.

Anyway, I hope this was at least a tad helpful to someone.

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muffinstomp
01-21-2004, 11:03 AM
Disturbing title,... No offence intended, but 1 dae murrican spell in well b down to 2 ladders I guess .... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I expected those long-awaited reconnaissance photos from the British institution...

muffinstomp

oFZo
01-21-2004, 01:57 PM
I exclusively fly He-111 when I'm online, and I dare to say I'm a pretty good bombardier.
I don't understand the problem, there's not much to it.
Even before takeoff I set my sight to the desired height and roughly the correct speed (4500m, 340kph).
I set the angle to about 70.
The flight itself depends on strategy (straight through taking lots of risk or flying around for instance), anyway, make sure you're at the correct altitude some time before you reach the target so you can get your plane absolutely level (elev. trim all the way up while level stab. is engaged)
All you need to do ("worry about") is aim (stab off, just rudder) and correct the speed on the sight. Maybe some rudder trim.

darn, I've been rambling again http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

-oFZo
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[This message was edited by oFZo on Wed January 21 2004 at 02:53 PM.]

tagert
01-21-2004, 04:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> by US380thBG-Tug:

Let's be clear. I'm not disagreeing that a better system would be nice. But I do hope to provide some information that might of help to folks struggling with the current bombsight implementation. I am in no way picking on Tagert, but I will use his post to illustrate how the process can be streamlined.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Tagert's way:
1)I see via the bomb sight that Im not linned up...
2)disable auto-level
3)jump out of the bomb sight view
4)make a heading adj via rudders
5)go back into bomb sight views and see if Im lined up.. if not goto step 3
6)enable auto-level
7)check bomb sight and hope your adj didnt put the aircraft into roll, dive, or climb.
8)drop bombs

If they would make the auto-level more auto-pilot like then it would maintain the alt and keep the wings level... all you would have to do is adj the nose via rudders.. or rudder trim. Thus removing steps 2,3,5,6<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> by US380thBG-Tug:
Option (1)

(1) See offline
(2) disable auto-level
(3) do NOT leave bombsight, just stomp rudder.
(4) re-engage auto-level while nose is yawed to establish new heading.
(5) rinse-repeat until lined up.

As long as you *only* provide yaw input, you will not bank or pitch when coming out of auto-level. You can stomp on the rudder to your heart's content, your pitch and roll will remain stable *even with auto-level disengaged*.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I Disagree 100%! I have had the He111 and TB3 roll on me greatly with slight, let alone STOMPED rudder adjumsments. And even when I dont roll it much.. it does not take much roll to totally mess up the He111 bomb sight.. then you have to hope and pray it will settle before the drop point... These reasons are the drivng force behind my request to allow us to make rudder adj while auto-level is enabled... no need to STOMP at a point or two alone the way.. just suttle rudder pressure while flying.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> by US380thBG-Tug:
Touch the stick though and you're fecked.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Touch it or not, a large rudder input will cause the aircraft to roll in that direction and also wack your pitch.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> by US380thBG-Tug:
I guess what I'm saying is that the current bomb sight *does* work as wished-for. Provided you really stabilize your aircraft prior to engaging auto-level... and then fine tune it (via trim) once auto-level is in fact engaged, then it works as advertised. Is the process easy? Hell no. Doable? You bet.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmmmm Agreed 100%! But as long as you dont disable the auto-level and use rudder http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif But.. using trim sucks and is only a work around. I would prefer to use my rudders and let the auto-level keep the aircrat LEVEL AUTOMATICLY... Pun intended! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> by US380thBG-Tug:
Option (2) - Ideal for HOTAS w/ rotary knobs

(1) If you are fortunate enough to own a HOTAS with rotary knobs (e.g. Cougar), the process becomes silky smooth. First, map rudder trim to knob (recommend you use the HOTAS setup provided by FB rather than go through the hassle of programming it).
(2) Stabilize your bomber at preplanned alt and airspeed. (You did preplan your bomb run and enter values into bombsight before take-off, right?)
(3) Go to bombsight.
(4) If you are off target, trim with knob in appropriate direction. Watch your crosshairs. They will slowly slew left or right according to input and, unlike stomping rudder, the slewing is continuous -which rocks!
(5) re-center trim when cross hairs are properly aligned with target. Voila!
(6) Rain iron down on your enemies whilst laughing maniacally.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I like it! But I dont have a rotary knob left for rudder trim... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> by US380thBG-Tug:
Never used/seen a Norden bombsight, nor am I a history buff. But it's pretty safe to assume the bombadier wasn't stomping rudder to fine tune course. Clearly, some other system is needed to simulate a U.S. bomb sight if/when one becomes available in FB and, perhaps, this will carry over to the presently flyable bombers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Pretty sure the B17, let alone any bomber in WWII had a keyboard either... But it does not stop us from simulation many things with a keyboard... The goal of making your PC into an actual WWII aircraft is a pretty big challenge... Let's stick with the fact that it aint going to happen any time soon and that we will have to make concessions for some things... No sim to date is totally real... and no sim ever will be! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> by US380thBG-Tug:
Anyway, I hope this was at least a tad helpful to someone.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well.. Im thinking I need to go buy one more or a new HOTAS device to get me one more rotary knob...

TAGERT

jttthomas
01-21-2004, 05:56 PM
my question is - why doesn't Ubisoft properly model autopilot? ie. you choose the height, speed and direction and the autopilot maintains it - NOT requiring trim, unless you specifically wanted it. I have almost given up on the autoleveller coz sometimes it just doesn't work. I've given up on level bombing because of it, besides bombing from 50ft with a 10sec fuse is quite exhilirating!