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Lord-Arion
02-19-2017, 05:41 AM
With how things are currently rolling the vikings are almost assured victory if nothing in the balancing changes.

Ive watched the faction war the last few days and it has become very clear that the knights and samurai are fighting for 2nd. Everytime they make any progress against the vikings they surge back and take many many turns to shove back.

While the open beta faction war was very cyclical in its obvioud faction on times, at least it was competitive. Its not enjoyable to log into thr faction war each day to see the vikings sitting at the top with 24+ territories all the time while the samurai and knights fight to maintain majority of whats left.

I dont know if they have the highest population and are thus overwhelming the knights and samurai, or if they have the lowest population and the balancer is giving them to strong an assist.

If the faction war is going to have any success the vikings need to be balanced. Everyone will end up joining them next round if the knights and samurai can never compete.

Knights have done ok, but Samurai are just getting crapped on left and right. Its surprising they've managed to hold on to anything given how badly the system seems to want their defeat. Talking to other players the factiom war being so one sided is hurting their experience with For Honor. People talk a good show about how they dont care about the faction war but they do. People really do care about the faction war, so dont allow it to become Mortal Kombat X where the winner is always predictable long before its over.

rcwd
02-19-2017, 05:50 AM
Dont know what you play on, but on ps4 the faction war actually fluctuates quite a bit.

King-Squish
02-19-2017, 05:52 AM
Dont know what you play on, but on ps4 the faction war actually fluctuates quite a bit.

its cross platform, so it doesn't matter and op is crazy.

zwaggs33
02-19-2017, 05:54 AM
The faction war is cross platform as far as I know. I play ps4 and though the vikings do seem to have the upper hand usually, both knights and samurai seem to make occasional surges. I don't think it is nearly as dire as the OP makes it sounds and that's coming from a Samurai player.

TripSin.
02-19-2017, 05:57 AM
Everyone should just join the Vikings. That way everyone wins.

Quinn1987
02-19-2017, 05:59 AM
Knights always make a come back during the day in UK hours.. There have been a few times I've logged on to see them over take the vikings.

Goat3_Saeko
02-19-2017, 06:05 AM
If knights were wining you still say those?
Because it seems to me you are in the looking side and you get nervous.
ps: is still to early to see the winer
ps: knights was making fun of Vikings after the open beta
ps: PAY BACK TIME

Zemus-
02-19-2017, 06:30 AM
During the day in the West it seems the Knights are usually winning, During the Evening and overnight the Vikings seem to take over. The Samurai just seem to hang around and nothing more. It has been like this forever so far even through the beta's. based on this it seems pretty balanced.

Masked_Yurei
02-19-2017, 06:46 AM
It's ironic because, if the faction war was actually live; every side would be winning. Because every side has overpowered garbage.

We got some Orochi, some Shugoki ability spam, some Nuboshi spam and some Kensei side stepping for the Samurai.

We got some Raider mega swing and rush spams, we got some Berserker attack and guardbreak spam, some Valkyrie shield bash and headbut spam, and some indomitable Warlords.

And finally, some shoulderbash chaining Wardens, some Peacekeepers, bash stunlocking Conquerers and control attack spamming Lawbringers.



Take your pick, who can be overpowered first. The Orochi is in first place with the title of Meta since Closed Alpha, but the rapid attack speed of the Peacekeeper is gaining as they become MVP of every game they play. Which disease will kill the host first, find out at the cost of 60$+ ****ing dollars.

Drekle
02-19-2017, 06:49 AM
Fairly certain if we all just picked viking we would all be winners...

zwaggs33
02-19-2017, 07:05 AM
If everyone picked the same faction what would be the point of having the faction war at all?

Lord-Arion
02-19-2017, 07:20 AM
Exactly, everyone keeps saying just join vikings and we all win, but that beats the whole point. The vikings have won 2/3 and with the current trend will go 3/4. How do you guys not see anything wrong in this. Yeah knights pulled out a win in open beta, we also got a little help from beta closing at a time that aligned with knights push time. Here in full release we arent seeing the fluctuation of pole position. Knights and Samurai fight for 2nd place and occasionally do enough damage for the knights to slip into first for a hot second. Thats not competitive and its not enjoyable for knights and samurai. Vikings dont want a change because they have 2/3 wins so far. We need to look past all the viking players that raged because vikings didnt go 3/3.

jaka_lope
02-19-2017, 07:23 AM
Exactly, everyone keeps saying just join vikings and we all win, but that beats the whole point. The vikings have won 2/3 and with the current trend will go 3/4. How do you guys not see anything wrong in this. Yeah knights pulled out a win in open beta, we also got a little help from beta closing at a time that aligned with knights push time. Here in full release we arent seeing the fluctuation of pole position. Knights and Samurai fight for 2nd place and occasionally do enough damage for the knights to slip into first for a hot second. Thats not competitive and its not enjoyable for knights and samurai. Vikings dont want a change because they have 2/3 wins so far. We need to look past all the viking players that raged because vikings didnt go 3/3.

haha? the next time someone has gun to your head forcing you to pick x faction, tell them, no, you'd rather play your conscience? this is completely random and a non-issue.

Bolderox
02-19-2017, 07:28 AM
What needs to occur is we need to know how much we are actually committing to the side... because as it stands I as a knight have places almost triple for defenses for assets and they fall short to nothing helping... But what bugs me that me playing MY faction as the factions CHARACTERS do not increase your input. Any faction can gain equal resources by playing characters that ARE NOT from the faction. Which from a game-play standpoint makes it fair and allows players to play what they want. But feel that you should be rewarded more for playing and fighting for your faction with the factions roster of heroes....

Hell, even implementing a way so that you can turn loot you would normally scrap into war asset points, thematically sounds right.

Lord-Arion
02-19-2017, 08:42 AM
haha? the next time someone has gun to your head forcing you to pick x faction, tell them, no, you'd rather play your conscience? this is completely random and a non-issue.

I dont get how imbalance in a system that is in your face as soon as you enter multiplayer, when you are choosing a different playlist, when you deploy assets, and whenever you arent in a match sitting in the menues is random and a a non issue. This system is supposed to be important. Choosing your faction is supposed to mean something, and if players game the system for the rewards then what is the point of it even being there.

zwaggs33
02-19-2017, 08:44 AM
haha? the next time someone has gun to your head forcing you to pick x faction, tell them, no, you'd rather play your conscience? this is completely random and a non-issue.

Who is putting a gun up to whose head forcing someone to pick a faction? Are you saying the viking faction is holding a gun to everyone else?

Delectable_Sin
02-19-2017, 08:56 AM
Wow... people lose, and start complaining like crazy, lol.

For the record, Vikings should have won the open beta too, they just didn't count the ending round because it didn't finish.

Funny, someone mentioned the possibility of Vikings having more people, or being helped out too much by balance efforts, but no one mentioned the possibility that we're just winning more. Meh, easier to blame it on the game I guess.

Lord-Arion
02-19-2017, 08:56 AM
I honestly dont understand his argument in the slightest.

The fact remains though that the vikings need to have their asset gains reduced or the knights and especially the samurai need a boost. We take 4, the samursi take 3, then the vikings turn around and take 9. The viking pushes are too strong for knights and samurai to mount any kind of defensive. These arent even close either. They are huge margins as well, even while they are ready leading strongly

DrExtrem
02-19-2017, 09:04 AM
If knights were wining you still say those?
Because it seems to me you are in the looking side and you get nervous.
ps: is still to early to see the winer
ps: knights was making fun of Vikings after the open beta
ps: PAY BACK TIME

While making fun of the Vikings was not cool, the Vikings called for it. They did the sane during the entire beta and were very, very salty, when the knights pulled off a comeback.

It does not matter. After this season, the majority of the players will flock to the winning faction and the balance will tip. I am a knight by heart and while I respect the other factions, I would never join them. But most players are sheep, who want to be a part of the winning side. This will tip the balance if the factions.

davek1979-2
02-19-2017, 09:18 AM
Well isn't the fact the Faction War is dominated by Vikings ringing some alarms somewhere in terms of balance?

L0rdZwu
02-19-2017, 09:21 AM
Well isn't the fact the Faction War is dominated by Vikings ringing some alarms somewhere in terms of balance?

elaborate please

Tyler-Durdin
02-19-2017, 09:24 AM
Doesn't really ring alarm bells since any faction can play any character.

megamasa94
02-19-2017, 09:33 AM
wait there was a thread about knights and samurais uniting for now, what happened with you guys? http://i.imgur.com/v1BHEXk.png :cool:

Lord-Arion
02-19-2017, 10:27 AM
elaborate please

What do you want as far as info goes, look at how its gone. Vikings won alpha, vikings won closed beta, had the turn finished they probably would have won open beta, and now they are crushing the first full release war. Is this not evidence enough that the faction war is unbalanced and in full control of the vikings.

zwaggs33
02-19-2017, 10:32 AM
Not sure what could be done really other than give under pop factions a boost. I would be interesting in seeing the number of players in each faction.

Lord-Arion
02-19-2017, 11:24 AM
They could also put a huge handicap on viking asset gain. Either viking deployments are worth far less due to whatever factors are giving them such dominance, or the knights and samurai deployments are worth far more due to whatever factora arent allowing them to keep up. Either way something has to shift or they may as well remove the faction war due to it being nob competitive and the distinct lack of a war (its not a war if its so one sided, its a massacre) going directly against the thematic of the game.

The_B0G_
02-19-2017, 11:39 AM
The balancing doesn't seem to take into account the fact that there is a good number of vikings are on at all times. Samurai and Knights both have their peak hours, but Vikings also have their peak hours but are basically strong all day with the large amount of players choosing them, that's why they pull ahead and knights end up going down to 10 and 12 territories, the lowest Vikings usually go is 20, so the whole peak Knight hours they spend clawing back to 25 and then get sent back down to 12 before the next peak hours. Samurai are a constant 3rd, they are in second a lot because the knights are usually ahead of them and then get a huge penalty of -5% at the end of the peak hours and lose 7 territories while the Samurai's don't because they are never in first.

ItsHolyman666
02-19-2017, 11:48 AM
My theory on why there seem to be a majority of Viking players (seems to be true on XB1 as well) is a simple one. You can't make a pokeball or a dragon ball emblem using a triangle or a square, durr.

Seriously though, the amount of silly emblems I see that only make sense as a circle make me believe that there are more than a handful of people who fight for the Vikings purely for the aesthetic of their emblem. I've also seen people do flags with the samurai emblem, which would look less cool as the Viking or samurai shape

VndictivPersona
02-19-2017, 11:55 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1534055-Hall-of-Heroes-Guide-to-Faction-War

Scroll down to close to the bottom and it explains what's going on with any discrepancy in population size of each faction.

The_B0G_
02-19-2017, 12:04 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/showthread.php/1534055-Hall-of-Heroes-Guide-to-Faction-War

Scroll down to close to the bottom and it explains what's going on with any discrepancy in population size of each faction.

So they say they have it balanced perfectly so we take their word? It's hard to believe they can be dominating throughout alpha beta, closed beta, open beta and release.

Something has to be off, at this rate. everyone will join vikings.

VndictivPersona
02-19-2017, 12:17 PM
Not saying it's perfect, but I don't think it's as flawed as you think it is. It's definitely fluctuates between all the factions leading at some point (with samurais probably the least).

The_B0G_
02-19-2017, 12:24 PM
Not saying it's perfect, but I don't think it's as flawed as you think it is. It's definitely fluctuates between all the factions leading at some point (with samurais probably the least).

Then we agree, there's an advantage to Vikings due to large numbers that the other factions probably won't overcome in the current system.

Lord-Arion
02-19-2017, 01:06 PM
The problem is that unlike the knights and samurai, the vikings always seem to be around every hour of every day. Any efforts the other factions make are never enough try as we might. As previously stated knights might wriggle their way into 1st for a hot second, but no amount of work the samurai and knights do will overcome the vikings since they have peak hours and the vikings (while also having peak hours) are always around putting on the pressure.

Aeecto
02-19-2017, 01:12 PM
Interesting fact is knights were leading most of the time since release and vikings did get pushed back realy hard (were down to 10) and then got the 5% buff on each territory so they got back up without any effort.
Once the european nighttime started and most european went to bed, the russian players (most are vikings because most known streamers are) had an easy going to get all the territories they got now.
I know it because i was playing realy late this night (04:00 gmt+1) and only met vikings and russian and some turkish players in every single lobby. Realy never saw a knight or samurai.
During the day it's somehow balanced but knights seem to have a small amount of players more.

Lord-Arion
02-19-2017, 01:42 PM
But their will be no healthy rivalry if the war is one sided as it is now. That the vikings seldom drop below 20 while the knights and samurai have to fight like hell to not fall to 10 is ridiculous. Yeah there was a brief point where the knights and samurai pushed hard on the vikings and dropped them to about 15 which is the lowest they've been the whole war. This is not a balanced war. The knighta have been in the lead twice all war, both times they were dropped back to 2nd the next turn. The vikinga however hover in 1st 90% of the time at 20+. Faction war will have no success and only breed negative animosity if it remains one sided as it is now. Look at the data on the faction war page of the official site and you can see just how one sided this whole war is.

Xakonero
02-19-2017, 02:24 PM
The problem is not that the vikings are winning, due to the number of players, because if they are a lot, or the minor faction, because at the end if they are not the viking, they will be samurai or knights. The thing is that the Faction War itself is a non-sense, its not a War, otherwise a popularity competition.

The Faction War has been a failure until today, just a good marketing campaign, there are not objetives or tactical, the only thing that we can do is deploy assets, and it seems like we arent helping. I bet that the most of players in sometime will forget to deploy or get tired of doing it, because it is.

In short, the faction war is a map that change colors according to the number of players of each faction in the moment. Isnt it sad? This feature could be really cool.

SirCorrino
02-19-2017, 02:24 PM
Not sure what could be done really other than give under pop factions a boost. I would be interesting in seeing the number of players in each faction.

Going by my purely anecdotal evidence I think Vikings are actually the underpopulated faction. There is already a boost for the underpopulated side, so it might just be that it's a tad bit too strong.

Also, keep in mind that the number of assets each player gets is tied to their performance in-game. So if Vikings have a larger proportion of above-average players they will naturally gain more assets than the other sides.

Just out of curiosity, what is the largest amount of assets (including front and end of turn bonuses) you have ever gotten, and as what faction? Mine is 3200 for a single Dominion game as Viking.

Lord-Arion
02-19-2017, 02:33 PM
Ive gotten 2500 for a really good dominion match as a knight

SirCorrino
02-19-2017, 02:54 PM
2160 as Knights seemed like one of the larger amounts I got for a single game, but I havent been paying that much attention. That one stood out though.
Don't think I have seen a 3000+ yet

That suggests to me that Vikings are fewer in number and get a boost to make up for it. Might be too big of a boost, though.

L0rdZwu
02-19-2017, 04:22 PM
That suggests to me that Vikings are fewer in number and get a boost to make up for it. Might be too big of a boost, though.

viking here.never saw more than 2400.

T_Djinn_T
02-19-2017, 04:25 PM
With how things are currently rolling the vikings are almost assured victory if nothing in the balancing changes.

Ive watched the faction war the last few days and it has become very clear that the knights and samurai are fighting for 2nd. Everytime they make any progress against the vikings they surge back and take many many turns to shove back.

While the open beta faction war was very cyclical in its obvioud faction on times, at least it was competitive. Its not enjoyable to log into thr faction war each day to see the vikings sitting at the top with 24+ territories all the time while the samurai and knights fight to maintain majority of whats left.

I dont know if they have the highest population and are thus overwhelming the knights and samurai, or if they have the lowest population and the balancer is giving them to strong an assist.

If the faction war is going to have any success the vikings need to be balanced. Everyone will end up joining them next round if the knights and samurai can never compete.

Knights have done ok, but Samurai are just getting crapped on left and right. Its surprising they've managed to hold on to anything given how badly the system seems to want their defeat. Talking to other players the factiom war being so one sided is hurting their experience with For Honor. People talk a good show about how they dont care about the faction war but they do. People really do care about the faction war, so dont allow it to become Mortal Kombat X where the winner is always predictable long before its over.

Just so you're aware. Every single part of the faction war up to this point is pointless. Devs cheated Samurai and Vikings out of the win in beta giving it to the knights. So only 1 turn out of the entire 2 weeks matters

AgentCelt
02-19-2017, 04:29 PM
get good samurai and knight scrubs. long live the vikings reign

Ymir.exe
02-19-2017, 05:00 PM
Step up your game, tin cans and rice farmers. It's not our fault you're inferior warriors.

http://edgecast.buscafs.com/www.levelup.com/public/uploads/images/432027.jpg

The_B0G_
02-19-2017, 05:01 PM
get good samurai and knight scrubs. long live the vikings reign

Was it a high jump to get onto the bandwagon? Must be nice picking the known winning faction and then gloating, must be a patriots fan.

Lord-Arion
02-19-2017, 05:02 PM
Just so you're aware. Every single part of the faction war up to this point is pointless. Devs cheated Samurai and Vikings out of the win in beta giving it to the knights. So only 1 turn out of the entire 2 weeks matters

Nobody got cheated because Ubi rightly decided not to count a turn in its dawn and not its end. Hear this viking. You got closed beta territories because there was 1 hour, 1 HOUR LEFT and at that point the gains and losses were effectively assured. Open beta final turn had 4, FOUR HOURS LEFT out of 6, SIX HOURS. Drop that utter codswallop and shut it about the open beta knight win, and stop raging over not having every faction war title to your name.

Now I get it you viking players see this utter taint that is the present faction war balance and see it as justice. Please do us all a favor and leave this thread because your opinion on the faction war being balanced is total crap and has no placd in this thread. You only believe this balanced in some foolish belief that vikings destroying the faction war is somehow divine providence.

The vikings need to be reigned in and balanced in the faction war. They dont need be assured a loss, but they need not be allowed an assured win because the faction war is imbalanced. Look at the turn data on the official website. The vikings have controlled this faction war day in and day out. Yes knights have taken the lead a couple times but we have not been dominant. We take a lead then lose 8-9 territories. Vikings regain that and then take another 7 to go back up to 25-36 territories. Samurai cant even compete. If knights are to win this war they would need to take the lead for a hot second in the final turn. For samurai to win...well they arent going to win thats for certain. They are just getting wrecked on every front. Any damage they do to the vikings works to put the knights in the lead. The only time the samurai saw any success was day 1 early on before vikings curbstomped them.

This is NOT balanced.

Lord-Arion
02-19-2017, 07:46 PM
Going to bump so the thread doesnt get buried as morning gets rolling, the faction war balance really needs to be addressed.

Note: Vikings, nobody wants to hear from you that the mode is balanced when its obvious that its not. Saying the faction war is fair is like saying Glenn and Abraham had a fair fight with Negan in the season 7 premiere.

VndictivPersona
02-19-2017, 08:31 PM
I honestly feel (like someone else already stated) that more of the above average people are aligned to the Vikings. Like it said in the article I linked, it changes dependent on how many people are playing at that time. I've definitely seen a fluctuation in my amount of war assets when I'm getting the same amount of points in a game. I've had quite a few 900 point games and received anywhere between 3200-2400 war assets for it.

Like I've said, I don't think it's as messed up as everyone thinks. It most likely just needs some minor adjustments.

VndictivPersona
02-19-2017, 08:53 PM
also depends on the game mode and how long the match is. so if you're doing duels you're gonna get the weakest amount of assets.

I agree. My group of friends and I usually run mainly Dominion and throw in Skirmish/Elimination every so often.

SirCorrino
02-19-2017, 08:55 PM
also depends on the game mode and how long the match is. so if you're doing duels you're gonna get the weakest amount of assets.

Yeah, but not by that much (unless you play against AI). I've gotten over 1k from duels.

NukeOfficial_
02-19-2017, 08:59 PM
Every faction was Nr.1 in this round at least one turn. We can all agree that the Faction War system is far from perfect balance, but every team has the chance to win a round.
Right now the Faction War is decided by a race for each factions to get everyone of their faction on the respective subreddits and/or discords to tell them to ****ing defend already and not put all their assets in attack every single turn.

T_Djinn_T
02-19-2017, 09:04 PM
Nobody got cheated because Ubi rightly decided not to count a turn in its dawn and not its end. Hear this viking. You got closed beta territories because there was 1 hour, 1 HOUR LEFT and at that point the gains and losses were effectively assured. Open beta final turn had 4, FOUR HOURS LEFT out of 6, SIX HOURS. Drop that utter codswallop and shut it about the open beta knight win, and stop raging over not having every faction war title to your name.

Now I get it you viking players see this utter taint that is the present faction war balance and see it as justice. Please do us all a favor and leave this thread because your opinion on the faction war being balanced is total crap and has no placd in this thread. You only believe this balanced in some foolish belief that vikings destroying the faction war is somehow divine providence.

The vikings need to be reigned in and balanced in the faction war. They dont need be assured a loss, but they need not be allowed an assured win because the faction war is imbalanced. Look at the turn data on the official website. The vikings have controlled this faction war day in and day out. Yes knights have taken the lead a couple times but we have not been dominant. We take a lead then lose 8-9 territories. Vikings regain that and then take another 7 to go back up to 25-36 territories. Samurai cant even compete. If knights are to win this war they would need to take the lead for a hot second in the final turn. For samurai to win...well they arent going to win thats for certain. They are just getting wrecked on every front. Any damage they do to the vikings works to put the knights in the lead. The only time the samurai saw any success was day 1 early on before vikings curbstomped them.

This is NOT balanced.

I get you're ******ed and can't read. But the point of the comment was. Samurai led 9/15 Vikings led 5/15 And knights lead ONE out of 15. They gave the win to the knights. While they didn't earn it they got the win.

Based on that display of sheer ignorance on Ubi's part designing this "Faction War" system only benefiting one turn. The whole two weeks of the Round are pointless. Just teh last 12 hours. Two turns. One to make sure you get Asset buff and the second to make sure you're in the lead. Every single thing in the first 324 hours of the "Faction war" is utterly pointless

itsozzhere
02-19-2017, 09:12 PM
It's ironic because, if the faction war was actually live; every side would be winning. Because every side has overpowered garbage.

We got some Orochi, some Shugoki ability spam, some Nuboshi spam and some Kensei side stepping for the Samurai.

We got some Raider mega swing and rush spams, we got some Berserker attack and guardbreak spam, some Valkyrie shield bash and headbut spam, and some indomitable Warlords.

And finally, some shoulderbash chaining Wardens, some Peacekeepers, bash stunlocking Conquerers and control attack spamming Lawbringers.



Take your pick, who can be overpowered first. The Orochi is in first place with the title of Meta since Closed Alpha, but the rapid attack speed of the Peacekeeper is gaining as they become MVP of every game they play. Which disease will kill the host first, find out at the cost of 60$+ ****ing dollars.

I paid the 60 ****ing dollars, loving the game, samurais were in the lead just yesterday, if its truly cross platform, people wouldve seen. Ive been an orochi, sugoki, nobushi, kensei, and some of the viking classes, never once felt op by anyone. If you are in 4v4, its not the heroes who are op, its just that in 4v4, its bias towards pay to win, by allowing all gear and feats to be bought, and used in these modes.

I whoop peacemakers left and right, I also whoop shugokis and orochis and just about anyone I feel like whooping. I get a nice cup of coffee, get focused, and fight. Maybe your main class, just needs a buff.

NukeOfficial_
02-19-2017, 09:19 PM
I paid the 60 ****ing dollars, loving the game, samurais were in the lead just yesterday, if its truly cross platform, people wouldve seen. Ive been an orochi, sugoki, nobushi, kensei, and some of the viking classes, never once felt op by anyone. If you are in 4v4, its not the heroes who are op, its just that in 4v4, its bias towards pay to win, by allowing all gear and feats to be bought, and used in these modes.

I whoop peacemakers left and right, I also whoop shugokis and orochis and just about anyone I feel like whooping. I get a nice cup of coffee, get focused, and fight. Maybe your main class, just needs a buff.

exactly. [Your main class] is so underpowered and needs a buff 100%! [Every other class you ever lost to] is far too OP. Ubisoft should'nt wonder why people are complaing about the Game!!!

;)

TheEpicRage
02-19-2017, 09:58 PM
You know at first I thought you were trying to be constructive in your feedback but now that I've read through the whole thread your attitude is basically "waaaaaaahhhhh my teams not winning, handicap the team that's leading waaaaaaaahhhh" and your thinly veiled attempts to appear non biased by including the samurai is pitiful.

By you know what's the worst so far? Your attitude of if you don't agree with me then get out of my thread.

Despite all this I would not be opposed to ubisoft making their algorithm for the balancing of war assets public knowledge.

In the future don't tell people to piss off just because you don't like their opinion, the internet isn't your own little safe space.

Vandgarde
02-19-2017, 10:00 PM
I don't get it, what does balance have to do with faction war? You can rep any faction and play any character. A steamrolling prestige 10010 team of vikings on dominion can be repping knights...

CitizenPuddi
02-19-2017, 10:13 PM
A quick way to determine whether or not the current system is flawed would be to let us see the win/loss % per faction as a whole-- and then compare that to the map.

AkenoKobayashi
02-19-2017, 10:20 PM
From what I've seen, it shifts in rotation. At one point it will be Vikings, next will be Samurai, then Knights, and then when the day starts again, Vikings will be in the lead again. It depends on who is playing when. With it being a world wide game, cross platform, it will always shift in rotation. I don't know which faction has the most players in which regions, but I feel like that is what is causing the changing tides for the war. I literally come home from work (23:50 my time, in the central US) and the board will update showing that the Samurai has pushed back the Vikings and Knights, then it will update again, and show that the Knights pushed one side into our territory, and the Vikings retook one line of territory back from us. When I go to bed at 05, the Vikings will be pushing back into both Knight and Samurai lands. Then when I come home, it starts all over again. Even on my days off when I play this game for 20 hours each day, the cycle doesn't change.

Braegulfer
02-19-2017, 10:23 PM
I would like more than the last round to count though, I totally agree with this otherwise it behooves everyone to stop playing the second and third to last round to get the buff and then pour it on. Maybe last round counts for triple points towards a war total? Or daily there is a "double" point round. I understand the devs are in a tough spot because they don't want people to feel like they're fighting for a lost cause 24 hours into a round but something needs to be done. Maybe there is no buff on final round? I don't know the best solution, but there's gotta be something fairer than winner takes all for last round only.

Lord-Arion
02-20-2017, 02:11 AM
The thing is that even the cyclical nature isnt holding the vikings back from total domination. Again look at thr turn data. Knights and samurai push back, but vikings very seldom dip below 20 territories whereas knights and samurai regularly spend their time fighting up from close to 10 trying to stay in the fight.

This isnt me crying because knights arent winning, Im not saying anyone who disagrees with me needs to gtfo. I am saying that vikings arent welcomd to the table of discussion as all they offer to the conversation is "git gud knights and samurai" or "we got cheated in open beta and this is justice" or "you are just crying because you are losing. I think its fair to say they need not be part of the conversation when their faction is the heart of the problem. They are the ones who raged beyond belief when a knights win denied them undefeated status. Yeah feels good to be the patriots of the faction war. Well 2/3 of the playerbase dont enjoy being treated like they are the Jets, Bills, Dolphins, and Browns.

Vikings see no problem with them winning all the time. But for anyone not a viking they can see that the intended competitive battleground is everything but. Knights and Samurai want a fighting chance, not for 5/6 turns to be vikings and the 6th being 95% knights and 5% Samurai. Nobody enjoys it when they have little to no shot at 1st and are stuck fighting for second. When you have players come out and say that the one sided war is hurting their experience because the war map is always in your face displaying your faction getting pummeled.

I know players of the samurai who have ditched the samurai because they see no hope there. They usually have gone to the knights because they dont want to give the vikings the satisfaction of converting another to the "join us and we all win" mentality. That mentality beats the point of the system being there in the first place.

You vikings hover at first for so long that you dont get what its like to watch your faction claw their way to the top to slip back, and not just slip back but get crushed back into oblivion. You dont get what its like for your faction to be stomped so bad that all your efforts only serve to make the enemy of your enemy gain ground.

Knights and Samurai have about as much chance collectively of seeing a win as the Browns do.

Beneathar
02-20-2017, 04:16 AM
Something tells me that those vikings will encounter a hard surprise.

We will see who will win at the End, but im pretty sure that "viking domination" is a temporal thing.

The Faction war is now ongoing for what? 5 days? Its definitely too early for some predictions on how it will go on.

And I would have a real good laugh if, at the End of the War, the Knights will again rise as they did before and destroy those vikings in the last minute.

Oh god, how much I want to see this Ocean of Viking tears again...

And its quite likely we will see it. There is more than half the round still to go. Chances are 2:1 that our viking friends will again face their own feelings of suporemacy destroyed,

Lord-Arion
02-20-2017, 05:12 AM
You know at first I thought you were trying to be constructive in your feedback but now that I've read through the whole thread your attitude is basically "waaaaaaahhhhh my teams not winning, handicap the team that's leading waaaaaaaahhhh" and your thinly veiled attempts to appear non biased by including the samurai is pitiful.

By you know what's the worst so far? Your attitude of if you don't agree with me then get out of my thread.

Despite all this I would not be opposed to ubisoft making their algorithm for the balancing of war assets public knowledge.

In the future don't tell people to piss off just because you don't like their opinion, the internet isn't your own little safe space.

There is no thin veiled whining here mate, I dont need a safe space. I told vikings to go elsewhere because there opinion here quite literally carries no valuable weight. They are endlessly crushing knights and samurai and endlessly talk about how they are so superior to other factions that everyone should just join them so all can win.

Handicapping the leading faction isnt me qqing, it is a possible solution for creating a counterweight to sheer numbers snowballing. One of two things happen. Knights and samurai are bloosted to be competitive for more than 2 seconds, or the viking efforts are handicapped so that their efforts through sheer numbers doesnt smother any all efforts from knights and samurai.

If you take a game design class you will learn something about a subject called Dominant Strategies. Let me give you the crash course.

Lets say I have a shotgun, a longsword, and a knife. You have to pick one to go into battle with. Which do you choose. The obvious answer is the shotgun. There is zero reason to choose anything else. That longsword is great in a melee but doesnt do much if you face firearms (look at Last Samurai and see how well they fared against them). The knife is beautiful and ornate in its design but stands no chance in hell of beating a guy with a shotgun or a longsword.

So in this case the vikings have the shotgun, the knights the longsword, and the samurai the knife.

So what Im suggesting is we go to the armory and take out two more longswords and remove the knife and shotgun from play to put all three factions on equal ground.

And yes I do see that knights are presently in the lead and that the samurai might actually see a lead for the first time since day 1 (if they got another lead in there it was so short lived that it didnt matter).

Maybe take a step back and look at things from a game design perspective. You have a mode that is in the players face constantly when they are playing multiplayer. As a viking your feelings are generally positive. You are usually sitting on a huge lead and if you lose it you know that within a turn or two you'll retake it, and then continue swamping territories until you nearly own the whole map for 3-4 turns.

As a knight you have mixed emotions, you slip into the lead here and there but generally feel like you arent accomplishing much as every time you gain ground you lose it all a turn later. You hang on to a sliver of hope though that you take that lead in the final turn.

As a samurai you feel terrible looking at the map. Your faction is endlessly crapped on by both knights and vikings and you tend to hover around 15 or less. Maybe you get hot for a second and almost get the lead, but all hopes are dashed when you then see your faction reduced to nothing within 2 turns thereafter with the vikings knocking yet again on your stronghold door.

You cant cater to the 1/3 that is content with their faction winning every war and then rage when vikings dont win. You have to cater to all the factions and give them and equal shot of winning the war.

Yes I am a knight and am happy when we succeed as vikings and samurai are when they succeed. But Im also someone who sees perrenial victory as a problem. In a game like this where the faction war always has a presence to the player, it does impact the experience. For knights and samurai it can be a little depressing watching as the vikings just obliterate them day in and day out.

Im willing to bet that if vikings lose the round that they will rage and feel cheated because they had the biggest lead, and held the lead the longest.

So no, Im not crying that my team is losing, hell I never said a word when the lin kuei lost every single war after we won the first and havent won another since in mortal kombat. The faction war was tacked on in that game so nobody really cared about it. The faction war in For Honor though is a big part of the lore and premise of the game. It matters in For Honor unlike Mortal Kombat. Its a part of the immersion. Allowing the faction war to be so one sided and dominanted by any faction breaks the entire thematic of the game. This is the story of three factions locked in perpetual conflict never really making any progress all in the name of honor. This isnt the story about the vikings kicking everbody's asses all day and night while drinking mead and eating mutton. If that were the case the game would be called For Valhalla.

teksuo1
02-20-2017, 05:15 AM
something's wrong.

sometimes even if samurai AND knights wins all adjacent viking territories, vikings still have more.

zwaggs33
02-20-2017, 05:24 AM
If anyone is interested I looked to see who "won" each turn.

Vikings won turns 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20, 22, 23, 24, and 25.
Knights won turns 3, 4, 5, 6, 17, and 26.
Samurai won turns 2, 7, 20, and 21.

Turn 26 is the latest turn on the website. Both Vikings and Samurai have 20 because they were tied in territory on that turn. Samurai and Knights switch 2nd place fairly frequently.

Edit: Also didn't count turn 1 since, everyone starts equal.

Lord-Arion
02-20-2017, 05:27 AM
If anyone is interested I looked to see who "won" each turn.

Vikings won turns 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20, 22, 23, 24, and 25.
Knights won turns 3, 4, 5, 6, 17, and 26.
Samurai won turns 2, 7, 20, and 21.

Turn 26 is the latest turn on the website. Both Vikings and Samurai have 20 because they were tied in territory on that turn. Samurai and Knights switch 2nd place fairly frequently.

Edit: Also didn't count turn 1 since, everyone starts equal.

Pretty clear picture of the imbalance right there, thanks for posting.

Lord-Arion
02-20-2017, 08:46 AM
If anyone is interested I looked to see who "won" each turn.

Vikings won turns 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 18, 19, 20, 22, 23, 24, and 25.
Knights won turns 3, 4, 5, 6, 17, and 26.
Samurai won turns 2, 7, 20, and 21.

Turn 26 is the latest turn on the website. Both Vikings and Samurai have 20 because they were tied in territory on that turn. Samurai and Knights switch 2nd place fairly frequently.

Edit: Also didn't count turn 1 since, everyone starts equal.

Bumping the thread, people should really look at the data there. This presents so clearly the imbalance in the faction war. Vikings have taken 16/26 or 62% of the turns. Knights have 6/26 or 23%. The samurai have taken 4/26 or 15%. So in what world is that considered balance? The simple answer is that it isnt. So vikings step back and stop telling knights and samurai to git gud and acknowledge the clear imbalance of the faction war. No number of arguments that the war is balanced can compete with raw data that so heavily contradicts the theory of the blind

Ninder
02-20-2017, 10:24 AM
Bumping the thread, people should really look at the data there. This presents so clearly the imbalance in the faction war. Vikings have taken 16/26 or 62% of the turns. Knights have 6/26 or 23%. The samurai have taken 4/26 or 15%. So in what world is that considered balance? The simple answer is that it isnt. So vikings step back and stop telling knights and samurai to git gud and acknowledge the clear imbalance of the faction war. No number of arguments that the war is balanced can compete with raw data that so heavily contradicts the theory of the blind

But what does that really tell us? If it the same as in the beta, winning all these turns counts for nothing, it all depends on the last one. So every faction got it's shot and it is still possible for Samurai to win even if they would lose all rounds before. Is it really fair if only the last turn counts? Do we have a final say how the winner will be calculated?

And to my actual question:
Is an equal distribution of territories/ wins really necessary for those who want the system changed?
We don't even know how the rewards will be split. I would actually prefer if the smallest faction holds the least territory. If the amount of rewards you get is dependant on the territories as well as on the population it might be more rewarding for the player if the Samurai hold 15 territories than the Vikings 25.
I'd actually prefer if the territory held somewhat resembles the amount of players. At least as long as the distribution of rewards is fair and it is not too extreme.

Lord-Arion
02-20-2017, 10:39 AM
The problem with it reflecting the population percentages is that it isnt a war then. This why Mortal Kombat's faction war failed. To the victor go the spoils and thats why it must be balanced. Whatever the rewards are, if one faction dominates with little contest (Vikings at 62% of turn wins, 23% knights and 15% samurai) rhe samurai will never claim any victories outside a serious stroke of luck. Same goes for the knights. If its last turn leader wins then the vikings have a high chance of taking it due to their turn win rate, if its by most turn wins then they still have it because they are winning over 50% of the turns. If its calculated by biggest lead then once more vikings take it with a 36 which beats a samurai 28 and a knights 25. So regardless of angle the deck is stacked in the vikings favor.

Knights and samurai dont want to spend the coming rounds and seasons feeling like siding with those factions was a wrong choice.

Vikings won the alpha, vikings won the closed beta, and although it was rightly decided that a turn 1/3 complete doesnt count, had the turn panned out it is likely that they would have taken it. The problem is that if you've paid attention to the faction war throughout For Honor's stages of production and release you will see that vikings are always set to win it unless timing (in the case of the knights) throws the knights or samurai a bone. To anyone looking at the system closely each war has been the same song and dance. Vikings stomp and knights and samurai fight for 2nd.

Leaving it this way is like telling a bunch of olympic competitors that they are playing for silver because so and so already locked in the gold. Nobody goes to compete for 2nd place.

zwaggs33
02-20-2017, 10:45 AM
If you're interested I started a poll to see which faction people joined. As of right now knights are in the lead but it's a pretty small sample size currently.

TheEpicRage
02-20-2017, 06:46 PM
OK Lord-Arion, you've said why you think we need something to happen (Vikings being in the lead for majority so far) and talked about a possible solution (such as a handicap to Viking asset generation) but so far I haven't gleaned what you think the cause of the current situation is.

So could you enlighten me to what you perceive is the cause of the Vikings running rampant?

Copperneck
02-20-2017, 06:55 PM
LOL. I like how a bunch of you seem to think that faction choice is determined by what characters you play. Balance issues. Hahaha. I chose Vikings because I want to win better rewards. I mainly play as Orochi. I still get points for Vikings when I play.

xSkeletalx
02-20-2017, 07:49 PM
I'm a player from the Knights faction, but here's what I think regarding the Faction War so far.

I really love the idea of having this persistent, ever-changing battle across the map, it makes the in-game fighting mean something beyond just being fun multiplayer battles.

I've read the linked description of how the inter-faction balance is kept (regarding adjusted amount of earned assets, etc) and while I don't know enough about the numbers and specific details to really gauge how well it's working, I think what they posted make sense.

I think there are a few important things to keep in mind regarding this first Faction War, so lets discuss those;

This is the very first full Faction War; the Beta Faction Wars were shorter and with many fewer players contributing. It may take the entirety of this first Faction War for Ubisoft to gather enough data on real life Faction distribution, the number of Assets gained for all three Factions, etc. I believe that the data from this Faction War will help to shape any necessary adjustments for upcoming Wars, even if those changes aren't decided or ready for the second War. I believe that if one faction is being overly dominant from a factor other than purely outplaying the others we will see some sort of adjustment. Because it isn't about the Vikings specifically; balance on the Faction War map must be maintained so that any faction has the chance to win the overall War.

If the Vikings are typically winning a large number of territories every turn due to having a higher average representation (meaning every turn they have a larger percentage of their population active than the other Factions), the solution might simply be that the number of hours for each turn need to be raised/reduced, or the times that each turn ends need to be changed. Maybe the overall numbers of Assets earned needs to be adjusted in some way. Maybe by the time this Faction War ends, the numbers will be totally different. We have to wait and see.

Another point worth mentioning is that if the Vikings are in the lead, it behooves both the Knight and Samurai factions to spend more of their resources taking back (or taking over) Viking territories instead of fighting each other. It's not right to simply blame unknown details when player deployment choice also has an effect on the outcome. If your faction is not in the lead, but the gametype you're playing only displays options to take territory from the other non-leading faction, go back a step and find a place to manually deploy your Assets so that you're pushing back the leading team instead. It doesn't need to be completely coordinated between the two lower factions, but I believe that adopting a focus on tearing down whoever is in the lead will help to keep all three teams in check.

We also do not know what other events might be coming up, and its possible that there will be other events which will help the war effort directly.

I think we just need to work through the remainder of this War and see where the lines fall at the end. If there is a major issue (whether it is with Assets, player distribution, or something else) I believe that the dev team will fix it, because it is in their best interest for the game to succeed.

RosencraN7z
02-20-2017, 08:05 PM
So what exactly are the rewards for the meta game?

Duval.
02-20-2017, 08:46 PM
So I was reading this thread and noticed that noone looked at the numbers for amount of resources deployed for each tile... just a theory but could it be possible the reason that vikings are gaining more territory is because the knights and samurai and deploying most their assets on the knight and samurai front... I'm only thinking about this because I rarely deploy assets on the viking front...

incase you were wondering I swore allegiance to the knights

All Hail Apollyon!

SirCorrino
02-20-2017, 09:15 PM
The problem with it reflecting the population percentages is that it isnt a war then. .

It doesn't. There, your argument is void. There is a scaling to minimize the effects of population imbalances. And if anything Vikings are the least populous faction.

Lorr-Rhedet
02-20-2017, 09:34 PM
are you guys.... are you guys seeing the same map i'm seeing? because us vikes are getting our ****s kicked in presently. stop *****ing lol.

T_Djinn_T
02-20-2017, 09:36 PM
Based on that display of sheer ignorance on Ubi's part designing this "Faction War" system only benefiting one turn. The whole two weeks of the Round are pointless. Just teh last 12 hours. Two turns. One to make sure you get Asset buff and the second to make sure you're in the lead. Every single thing in the first 324 hours of the "Faction war" is utterly pointless

For all of you crying "Wah my team wah" just stop already.

I have personally deployed 433,872 resources for the viking. Do you know how of that actually matters? A big fat ol' ZERO none notta zilch literally none of it matters. Know why?

Vikings are in the lead. Yea. Doesn't mean jack. There's another 168 hours left before the Faction war even starts to matter. Because ONLY ONE TURN MATTERS

PackingMoney
02-20-2017, 09:39 PM
Based on that display of sheer ignorance on Ubi's part designing this "Faction War" system only benefiting one turn. The whole two weeks of the Round are pointless. Just teh last 12 hours. Two turns. One to make sure you get Asset buff and the second to make sure you're in the lead. Every single thing in the first 324 hours of the "Faction war" is utterly pointless

For all of you crying "Wah my team wah" just stop already.

Vikings are in the lead. Yea. Doesn't mean jack. There's another 168 hours left before the Faction war even starts to matter. Because ONLY ONE TURN MATTERS

That's true, if everyone is close on the last two turns, the one who had the least when the turn starts will win the war because of the 5% advantage they will get.

Munktor
02-20-2017, 09:43 PM
I figured everyone understood the faction war was simply a little gimmick and didn't have any real bearing...

Hangster_96
02-20-2017, 09:43 PM
Just join the Viking faction but I will always play the Samurai

Its a Win Win but wait.............

That mean the Samurai and Knight will never get crap for their faction such as Samurai items or symbols and craps.

Well GG, One sided freaking Faction war, actually there's no war. The Viking have Won already

PotatoLord47
02-20-2017, 09:48 PM
Is it that clear? I mean today I saw that Samurai faction did quite fine even after 2 rounds. Vikings now does have about 17?
I would say that that war is completely random :P