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View Full Version : Warden & Conquerer Bashes Need To Change



MYFATHERBEATSME
02-19-2017, 05:21 AM
These two are getting out of hand I feel now that players have these combos down to a science.

The shoulder bash/shield bash to light attack is just absurd and I have only one real problem with it and that is that the person getting hit by it loses stamina quicker than the person doing the hitting. It essentially leaves you with nothing to fight back with after you get pushed into the corner.

It's becoming more and more common abusive spam.

Redulz
02-19-2017, 05:37 AM
i find the conq charge to be really easy to dodge myself. warden on the other hand has options with his charge and if you guess wrong your screwed and even when you guess right there is still a chance your timing would have been off.

DaReaperZ
02-19-2017, 06:49 AM
Actually, if you dodge backwards and the warden doesn't charge up the shoulder charge there's nothing he can do, he won't reach with a guardbreak. The thing with a lot of fast heroes (all assassins, kensei, nobushi and to some extent valkyries) tend to want to side dodge you in order to get a free hit. It's certainly a juicy prospect against the charging warden, but if he goes GB instead, you're screwed into a side heavy attack. However, dodging backwards and neglecting the chance for a free hit is the safest bet, GB won't reach and charge will fail thus breaking the chain. In fact if you're damn fast, you might even be able to dash forward and land a hit after he missed the charge or GB.

Another alternative is to do a quick light attack if you are in-range to interrupt the charge.

Redulz
02-19-2017, 07:30 AM
snip

if you dodge back he can hold and catch you into a double light and start again. if canceling gb was his only option it wouldn't be a big deal but that charge has 3 there is no one awnser to beat it and unlike the defender who has to guess he can react to the guess the defender makes.this wouldnt be broken if you can tech a gb during a dodge but you cant.

DaReaperZ
02-19-2017, 05:37 PM
Yes, assuming he predicts that you will dodge backwards, most wardens will just do the shoulder charge as quickly as possible to avoid getting interrupted. If you dodge and roll backwards I don't think even the fully charged charge will reach.

Safest bet is to dodge backwards at least, you might even get 2 dodges in if he charges up the charge. It's certainly a hard situation though.

DaWeirdWAAAGH
02-19-2017, 05:57 PM
Another retarted babycry topic about shoulder bash/shield charge, Maybe you learn to play? Can't dodge / counter gb after warden catch you - NERF OMG NERF. Out of stamina because you spam like idiot then enemy spam this combo - NERF OMG NERF.

JayyRupp
02-19-2017, 06:06 PM
Wow you're bad. The game hasn't been out a week and you're crying for nerfs. Learn to dodge kid. The startup time for Warden's bash is ridiculous (I'm guessing it is for the Conqueror too). You have grandma hands if you can't move out of the way in time.

Veyrah
02-19-2017, 06:13 PM
Wow you're bad. The game hasn't been out a week and you're crying for nerfs. Learn to dodge kid. The startup time for Warden's bash is ridiculous (I'm guessing it is for the Conqueror too). You have grandma hands if you can't move out of the way in time.

THIS exactly! Completely agree with how ridiculous it is that people cry for nerfs so early on. They are already tweaking balance, but I really think they should be careful with nerfs and wait till at least a month in.

VoadorHolandes
02-19-2017, 06:23 PM
Well the Warden's perhaps, but ****, the Conqueror's? It's stupid easy to dodge; and if he does hit? Oh my, 12 damage for a guaranteed light! 23 for a heavy!

Veyrah
02-19-2017, 08:22 PM
Well the Warden's perhaps, but ****, the Conqueror's? It's stupid easy to dodge; and if he does hit? Oh my, 12 damage for a guaranteed light! 23 for a heavy!

yeah while i do admit wraden should be nerfed a bit, conqueror is pretty ok?

Warden just shouldn't be abel to do the shoulderbash to get cose, cancel into a grab, leaves too many options.

Zordrage
02-19-2017, 08:29 PM
Conq Unblockable charge 90% of the times cannot be dodged i tried it hits you even if you side dodge or back dodge.

also 50% of the times does not stop their charge if you hit them during it...

im seeing people spamming it literaly

unblockable charge light hit charge hit charge hit charge hit your dead... and you cant realy do aynthing againts it reliably...

Geric0nqueror
02-20-2017, 02:55 AM
Conq Unblockable charge 90% of the times cannot be dodged i tried it hits you even if you side dodge or back dodge.

also 50% of the times does not stop their charge if you hit them during it...

im seeing people spamming it literaly

unblockable charge light hit charge hit charge hit charge hit your dead... and you cant realy do aynthing againts it reliably...

Ok, that's... interesting. I am a Conq main and almost all of my enemies could easily dodge my shield bash. Most of the time I couldn't even land a hit (light or heavy) after I bashed, because I couldn't reach him. I understand though, that this move can be frustrating, if you're getting pushed into a wall over and over again. But what I experienced so far it is quite hard to do this, because as soon as I want to do another shield bash, the opponent just dodges away and avoids walls and ledges. And even if I get him into a corner it is sheer luck to hit him, because my flail would often hit the wall and therefore cancel the strike.

When you can block, dodge and maybe even parry a little bit, the conq can do very little to you, because he is way too slow and too defensive. Also his exhaustion and stamina regen/recovery is slower than of other classes. Even a gb isn't that dangerous (except in a "ledge" scenario of course, but this a problem among all classes), because of the conqs low damage.

Also, you see me swinging my flail and you don't want to attack me, because I might parry and hit you full charged? OK, just stay were you are, run around and dodge from time to time, I will either run out of stamina or cannot hit you, because you are too fast.

Oh and I don't remember I can do a shield bash light attack combo chain. I always thought it was a (slow) heavy attack which is easily blockable...

Beneathar
02-20-2017, 03:49 AM
yeah while i do admit wraden should be nerfed a bit, conqueror is pretty ok?

Warden just shouldn't be abel to do the shoulderbash to get cose, cancel into a grab, leaves too many options.

The Warden is actually the Character with the least options of all. He has less Combos than anybody else, he is average on anything, but excells in nothing.

Without proper guardbreaking (and i guess the game will always misinterprete a guard break after a dodge or light attack for a shoulöer bash if the nerf you want hits) the Warden has not only the least options of all characters, he will have the hardest way to guardbreak someone of all classes.

No, sorry, but the Warden should stay untouched.

He is the most blanced class in the Game, and if you really get into a guardbreak-chain.... there are ways to get out of this. even more ways if counterguardbreak will be fixed again.

Just dodge, or stop the moce with a light attack, or jump back or whatever you want. just dont stand there like a startled sheep and let him do hist work. Thats all you need to do.

Really, there are plenty of things others chars can do wich are just as annoying as this. Berserkers endless chains from all directions? Oh god, i hate them. But i dont shout nerf, because i know its counterable, i just dont get it to mange it. Or Orchis side-step strikes? I guess i will never learn how to escape them... But I dont ask for nerfs, because I know its counterable and pretty blanced.

Warden shouldnt be destroyed because some noobs dont know how to handle him. Seriously... giving a warden the opportunity to go into a guardbreak-chain is a mistake in iteself, not beeing able to break it is even more stupid.

CoyoteXStarrk
02-20-2017, 03:55 AM
No.

Beneathar
02-20-2017, 03:56 AM
Conq Unblockable charge 90% of the times cannot be dodged i tried it hits you even if you side dodge or back dodge.

also 50% of the times does not stop their charge if you hit them during it...

im seeing people spamming it literaly

unblockable charge light hit charge hit charge hit charge hit your dead... and you cant realy do aynthing againts it reliably...

lol.

just lol.

I dodge conquerors attempts to crush me 90% of the time.

And its definitely possible to stop it with a fast attack.

Conquerors are fine as they are. Their extreme defense makes them annoying opponents in a duel, but they are definitely fine.

I never noticed the Shield Bash beeing a problem (mostly its a way to guarantee me fine hits from aside)

I really do think, the Conqueror is fine, the only real strong offense he has is chaining light and hard attacks from different directions (wich can really wreck you if youre not fast enough). The Shield bash, as said, is not a real problem, and he needs that to get at least some damage out. Hes slower than most other heroes, you know?

I_am_a_robot
02-20-2017, 03:56 AM
i agree but in their present states, they dont have anything else in their repertoire to rely upon. what needs to change though is warden overhead swing is too powerful for a supposed jack-of-all-trades imho

Varicose_Veins
02-20-2017, 04:03 AM
I don't want to sound like a drama queen, but in all seriousness if the Warden's vortex is not fixed next patch it will say a lot about Ubi's understanding of their own game.

neogeo___
02-20-2017, 04:10 AM
if those change then the side-dodging of light classes needs to change too...

as for the warden - they don't have any special or unblockable moves except for a top-light-parry, so the shoulder bash is kind of NEEDED to be effective against players that really know classes. It can be dodged just like any other attack - can't tell you how many times they've cancelled the combo by dodging backwards.

Assassins should be the classes with the most demanding timing input to be successful in connecting chain and dodges since the get go as is the norm for such classes throughout the genre.

The fact they aren't is just unreasonable and clearly imbalanced making their risk/reward ratio a real joke and need to explore block/parry/deflect inexistent being always safer to dodge. I'd also welcome a side dodge stamina cost for this class considering it's range, usefulness and lack of timing needed.


As for the topic, bashes should have an increased stamina cost and warden bash cancel to guard break should be removed considering the precedent set for the warlord.