View Full Version : Raider Really Does Suck...

02-18-2017, 03:49 AM
To showcase WHY Raider really sucks, we will have to understand what options other heroes have...

Here's a run down of all the classes and how viable they are in High / Top level play (I only commented on the ones I have a lot of experience with):

Top Tier:

Warden: So far, the best class AND easy to play. The quick light attacks and zone-attack options gives the Warden a great 50/50 option that's also easy to pull off. Shoulder bash (quick env kill) and Top counter light (Parry baiting) and great tools in certain situations. His also does good damage for someone so fast and well-rounded.

Warlord: Interrupt-anything guards + automatic punish gives this class a lot of opportunities for free damage. He used to be even scarier with the headbutt / GB options that give him a perfect guess-game to deal with perfect defense players. His 50/50 is a bit weaker now after the nerf, but he still have a lot of HP / Damage and defensive options.

Second Tier:

Nobushi: The speed and range combination gives it unique options to keep opponent at bay to limit their defense. Certain block / parry / dodge punishes don't work at the distance. This can force a gap closer which usually results in a punish for you.

Peacekeeper: The typical assassin. It lacks the damage it once had but it still has the mobility. The ability to back off after attacks give it a slight edge over other assassins, it also has slightly higher damage once you factor in the poison.

Shugoki: I only have limited experience with him, but in the games I did play, he has good potential at highest level. His main ability is the scary scary super-armor. The ability to take one hit without getting stopped or combo'd makes him a monster in trades. He can easily setup trades that end badly for you. The key is to be super super calm when playing him. Try to parry/block everything without attacking back for a bit until you are used to that style. THEN realize that you have super armor so find opportunities to force a trade (which 90% is in your favor cause you do so much damage).

Third Tier:

Orochi: I have mentioned in the Samurai forums and presented evidence on exactly why everyone's favorite noob-stomper is actually a low tier in top level play. He has no forcible 50/50 and his saving grace is his defense but EVEN IF he managed to win 50/50s, his low health and damage will get him killed against a equally perfect opponent (at high level player, people don't get killed by light-spam or stormrush spams).

Kensei: He has great options against low level player as well. The unblockable + soft feint uninterruptable stomps noobs but doesn't work at highest level with your finisher will get parried most of the time. He does have decent 50/50 options but he's slow enough that they don't always work.

Almost everyone else is here. If it's a class I don't play often, I might have mistakenly placed him here.

Garbage Tier:

Raider: Slow enough that you won't race everyone with your light, but powerful enough to compete with most heavies. This would be a good enough bonus IF and ONLY IF you are not considering Top level play. His main weapon is the stunning tap, it's fast enough and comes out of soft feints so you can reliably land it on a weak/normal opponent. Normally a stunned opponent is food if he can't block/parry. EXCEPT a good player still can !!! The slowness of the class makes its attacks so telegraphed, I can be stunned and still block all its attacks ! Just don't panic and look at the head of the Axe and which direction it's coming from.

Of course Raider doesn't suck outside of 1v1. That's for sure. I find Raider to be one of the best Elimination/Dominion classes before Lawbringer. The env kill possibilities are endless with him and he gives the most advantage in 2v1 situations. I would rather 1v2 any other combo then one with a Raider is lurking around. He doesn't need to hit, so my Revenge won't trigger. He just needs one good GB / Charge to env kill a full health, perfect defense character. That's not hard to do when you are already engaged with someone else. Env kill also cannot be revived, so Raider really shines in Elimination and Dominion where he can roam and just pick people off. His damage is also high enough that one swing from behind will damage you sufficiently. He truly is the king of 2v1.

02-18-2017, 05:00 AM
Yeah Raider sucks, but I can't believe your statement since you put Orochi to Third tier, while it should be on second tier if not first tier. In fact, Orochi is overall better than Peacekeeper except the dash attack (PK's dash attack is the best in game btw)

I have played PK and Orochi a lot, clearly Orochi is in favor. His GB dmg follow up is great (just a liitle lower than PK but don't have to wait for bleeding), side slash is great (better than PK). Storm rush is great tool for punish and can be canceled. Only dash attack that PK is in favor by longer range, oh and PK's grab is a little longer range btw. Still, if Orochi use grabbing more, mixed with side dodge + storm rush. He is seriously powerful no less than PK

Kensei is also not as bad as you think. He has absurd light attack dmg at this moment. If Kensei's player abuse this fact, just play like nobushi, no flashy moves, stick with basic (parry block dodge keep distance, harass with light attack) he can be very powerful since only 6 hits of his light attack can bring 1 assassin down. I really want to Ubi to nerf his light attack to the way it was actually. 20 dmg per hit is too much.

02-18-2017, 07:55 AM
The Raider was my go to guy through out the betas. Dominion was my go to fun per xp gain. The Nobushi was my #2. Now that the game has released my Raider does not get played very often. He feels clunky and slow. He always was but not to the extent he is now. Especially now that you have 2 new big bad boys roaming around that make the Raiders stuns and ability to control the flow of the confrentation look pathetic. Both the lawbringer and Shugoki leave him in the dust when it comes to this. They make his charge look like childs play. And it is very embarassing playing a Raider and being tossed around and completely overpowered by these two big guys. If the Raider were faster it would really help him out. I tend to think of the shirtless fur wearing mountain of a man a raw power and rage. But that is really no longer the case. Why play the raider when the Shugoki and Lawbringer can do his job so much more efficiently and with way more moves to do it with. It's sad, because the Raider was my favorite character by far during the betas and he just seems obsolete now. If you can get his 3 heavy combo to connect every hit his damage is beautiful. But with as slow and telegraphed his animations are for his heavys this is almost impossible to do except on the greenest of the new players. If his heavy attack animations were shortened or changed in a way that you didnt know where the attack was coming from as soon as he started pulling back his axe he would be a much better play experience. In my opinion he also needs another throw/stun/GB or unblockable combo. As he is right now sadly he will be mostly sitting on the bench. My faction has always been Viking and it always will be. But my viking characters other than maybe the warlord will be benched probably for the season until a new viking class comes out. Maybe then I will be able to continue my search for the fighter that will bring me glory in Valhalla.

02-18-2017, 11:32 AM
I don't see the 50/50 a warden has as long as you have a dodge attack. That shouldbash mix-up against a dodge-attack opponent is just as risky for you as it is for him. It isn't 50% I hit the enemy it is 50% I hit the enemy or 50% I get hit by the enemy. Great 50/50....

His zoneattack is guardbreakable on BLOCK and his top light makes a sound. If you parry top light you get top heavy as punish.

02-18-2017, 03:26 PM
don't care about the tiers but raider right now is **** against someone with 3h played, he's indeed weak as fk

02-18-2017, 05:30 PM
Thanks for posting this. His side/back throw also does no stamina damage, even if you run people into objects.

We also need a light/heavy/heavy combo, the ability to change the direction of his zone attack, and a free heavy off of a guard break, wall knee, or tackle (into an open space). EVERYONE else gets these.

02-19-2017, 12:53 AM
Raider sucks hard.. That's all. Ubisoft noobs go kill yourself

02-19-2017, 05:56 PM
Bump. Fix this guy already.

02-19-2017, 11:44 PM
he's really weak, u can see all the attacks coming, too slow and no guardbreak follow up.